DPS loss is not the biggest issue with that. It's just that it feels wrong.

Lol, so devs should balance and create based on feelings. This is a funny thread. Some people just cant adapt, and others can. I, personally, have not noticed much difference in my rotation, but perhaps I am able to adapt better than others. The whole premise of this complaint is funny though.

Second, who tests this stuff for you wasn’t able to tell you what a nerf this is for Sin/Shadow?

Actually some very good shadows/sins are on the PTS. I can think of at least two. But I don't think bioware listens to their feedback, apparently, because they all thought this change was terrible.

One must either be blind or have no knowledge of the class not to notice the hindrance this change causes.

We lost Phase Walk, we lost damage reduction BOTH under stun AND aoe (from passives), they nerfed greatly our overall damage output and they made Maul frontally usable when we play on a server where they can’t fix rubber banding and you never ******* know where you or your opponent really are and now the nerf to Phantom Stride.

All of this only in patch 5.x, which isn’t over yet.

How is this fair to you?!

This .25s change is terribly inconvenient, and it has not only affected Sins and Shadows, but Operatives and Scoundrels as well.

Is the fix worse than the bug? Yes

They've screwed us over again when there was no need, and it blows the rotation to have this change. Bad enough you have crushed us over the years, now you have to ruin the rotation too. And it still doesn't fix anything.

At this point, it's almost as if they have a vendetta against the class. There are no actual game play reasons for what they've done to us the past couple years. The horrible nerfs decreed by the almighty metrics do not reflect the actual use of the class in real pvp, and that's where balance issues manifest themselves. For PvE, who freaking cares? Seriously, you're all on the same side in an Op. And you've had OP mercs and snipers for 2 years and you haven't addressed that at all, so balance obviously isn't a priority for you Devs.

Stop screwing up shadows with your clumsy fixes that don't fix anything.

Lol, so devs should balance and create based on feelings. This is a funny thread. Some people just cant adapt, and others can. I, personally, have not noticed much difference in my rotation, but perhaps I am able to adapt better than others. The whole premise of this complaint is funny though.

Or you don't play correctly. The difference between being able to PS inbetween GCD or having to wait for the full GCD to be done is big. Adaptation is not the problem is it feels clunky now. And since BW is in a mood of QoL changes, this is definitely not one.

Or you don't play correctly. The difference between being able to PS inbetween GCD or having to wait for the full GCD to be done is big. Adaptation is not the problem is it feels clunky now. And since BW is in a mood of QoL changes, this is definitely not one.

So because i can adapt well to this change and dont see it as clunky, then i dont play correctly? Based on your complaints, i would summize that you are the one who doesnt play the class well, good fellow. I also didnt realize there was an officially correct way to play the class, either

So because i can adapt well to this change and dont see it as clunky, then i dont play correctly? Based on your complaints, i would summize that you are the one who doesnt play the class well, good fellow. I also didnt realize there was an officially correct way to play the class, either

There is a difference between playing a class well enough for the easier types of content (such as MM flashpoints and SM Ops) and playing well enough for Nim Ops and Ranked PvP.

I fall into the 'good enough' range with my dps sin . It's not optimal, I run with the low alacricity bulild, but it's what I can do with my so-so reflexes. For me the the change to phantom stride is hardly noticeable, but that's because I regularly mess up the proper rotation. Is it that hard for you to see that people going for maximum dps find even a slight change to their rotation destructive?

Plus, you are dismissing the effect of the change on the tank spec. This is a nasty change, even to a casual player like me. The pull-stride opener is screwed up. This means tanks have to change their opening rotation, for what amounts to no reason at all.

The change to phantom stride was stupid, annoying, and pointless.

So because i can adapt well to this change and dont see it as clunky, then i dont play correctly? Based on your complaints, i would summize that you are the one who doesnt play the class well, good fellow. I also didnt realize there was an officially correct way to play the class, either

Well, officially correct would not be the right word. But there's a way to play it that yields better results thus making it the best. If you don't feel that having PS respecting the GCD is clunky then good for you. But according to everyone answering this thread, it seems like a lot of people think it's clunky.

Imagine if Recklessness respected the GCD, that would be horrible, wouldn't it ? Since PS is more an offensive CD than a mobility tool, the same goes for it.

hey there..

for me deception/infiltration feels totally clunky, too.

its like playing with hickup. you can still play it, but its just not that fun anymore...

btw this is coming from a top 5 dummy tryhard

One must either be blind or have no knowledge of the class not to notice the hindrance this change causes.

 

We lost Phase Walk, we lost damage reduction BOTH under stun AND aoe (from passives), they nerfed greatly our overall damage output and they made Maul frontally usable when we play on a server where they can’t fix rubber banding and you never ******* know where you or your opponent really are and now the nerf to Phantom Stride.

 

All of this only in patch 5.x, which isn’t over yet.

 

How is this fair to you?!

Now you know how Carnage Marauders feel.

It's a stupid change that doesn't even address the very thing it's suppose to be addressing., it messes with the rotation and even has a small DPS loss to it. If it doesn't "fix" the thing it is suppose to have fixed in the first place and is only making things worse, undo the friggen change at least until it actually fixes what it was implemented to fix in the first place.

I don't even play an Assy and I think it's horse- [4 letter bannable word]. - If it doesn't address the issue it was intended to it is unfair to implement it and than to leave it that way once it's discovered to have not been effective in it's stated purpose. Undo this change, it's unfair to Assy's.

Now you know how Carnage Marauders feel.

Lol dude Carnage Mara's just know how we feel. This crap happens to us literally every other month. Sins have been getting the short end of the stick since 1.0. The only time we were ever balanced correctly was in 2.7 just before SOR dropped.

So yeah any word from the Bioware team on this? Can we get some sort of acknowledgement this is being looked at? Because it actually affects Operatives more than us.

I tried to ask Keith several time on the livestream, but he either didn't see me or chose to ignore me. Either way, still no answer. The silence is very frustrating.

Yeah I saw that. I tried asking once too but got no response.

I might just email Eric and straight up ask "hey did you have literally any DPS shadow or operative actually playtest this, because it's terrible."

TBH I don't think they have anyone who's a DPS shadow on the closed PTS these days.

Why is it still nerfed?

You should have understand by now that your supposed-to-be fix didn’t work!

Just bring it back as it was before and stop screwing our class!!

Why is it still nerfed?

You should have understand by now that your supposed-to-be fix didn’t work!

Just bring it back as it was before and stop screwing our class!!

Is it a nerf or a fix? I guess it depends if you ask the source or a random angry player.

Ouch.. I had not really paid attention to the patch note, because it didn't sound so bad and I had not played any of my assassins and shadows between then and now, but it's absolutely horrible. Calling the change 'clunky' doesn't begin to do justice to exactly how awful it plays now.

If this really fixes something (the patch note is rather vague, and as others have noted, the only obvious problems are still there) then I'd love for someone from BW to clarify exactly what.

Honestly, I will likely just not play the class much anymore, because it's mess now. I don't have much hope that the change will be undone, because BW doesn't revert mistakes, they just 'fix it more', but this at the very least deserves a response.

I want to point out the horrible communication on the issue on Bioware's part. As Mr. Musco stated a while back "if it isn't in the patchnotes, it's a bug". So it's fair to assume it's a bug. Since we had a patch today, it was fair to assume the issue would be corrected. But as it turned out, it wasn't. So what is it ? A bug since it was not in the patchnotes or working as intended since it was not fixed ? We had no answer to this thread, I even PM'd Eric to ask if he could provide an answer, but got none. A simple answer would have prevented a lot of frustration on our part and would make the whole deal a bit easier to accept.

Is it a nerf or a fix? I guess it depends if you ask the source or a random angry player.

I was launched accross the map on the 1st warzone I did the day the patch dropped so unless there was an issue unknown to us, this change doesn't fix anything.

I was launched accross the map on the 1st warzone I did the day the patch dropped so unless there was an issue unknown to us, this change doesn't fix anything.

And? I dont recall BW saying thats what was being fixed. Sounds as though the people complaining dont truly know what the fix actually fixed. Perhaps only a certain population was experiencing the issue. Just a realistic thought.

And? I dont recall BW saying thats what was being fixed. Sounds as though the people complaining dont truly know what the fix actually fixed. Perhaps only a certain population was experiencing the issue. Just a realistic thought.

Do you play sin ? Genuine question, I'm curious.

BW said it was to fix an issue when PS was used with another movement enhancing ability i.e. Force Speed. The thing is, there was no issue whatsoever caused by the overlap of those 2. There could be one we don't know about, but as I said, it bring me back to the ncredible miscommunication of BW on this issue, we simply don't know and noone has even taken the opportunity to explain how it fixed anything.

Do you play sin ? Genuine question, I'm curious.

BW said it was to fix an issue when PS was used with another movement enhancing ability i.e. Force Speed. The thing is, there was no issue whatsoever caused by the overlap of those 2. There could be one we don't know about, but as I said, it bring me back to the ncredible miscommunication of BW on this issue, we simply don't know and noone has even taken the opportunity to explain how it fixed anything.

Yeah, you're right.BW did say that. As I understand it tho of reports for players are to believed, and I see no reason why they shouldn't given the seeming consensus involved, while it was changed for a fix , it didn't succeed at fixing it so it clearly than isn't worth the disruption to the spec it's causing. I'm not sure it would be worth it even if it did because it sounds like it was just an occasional issue, whereas this change has a constant effect on the common rotations.

I don't play it though,it's just something I have been keeping up with on the forums with what players who do are saying. I just wanted to confirm your statement, "BW said it was to fix an issue when PS was used with another movement enhancing ability i.e. Force Speed."

Do you play sin ? Genuine question, I'm curious.

BW said it was to fix an issue when PS was used with another movement enhancing ability i.e. Force Speed. The thing is, there was no issue whatsoever caused by the overlap of those 2. There could be one we don't know about, but as I said, it bring me back to the ncredible miscommunication of BW on this issue, we simply don't know and noone has even taken the opportunity to explain how it fixed anything.

Yes i play sin and shadow. They are my most progressed toons.

Also, force speed is NOT the only movement enhancing ability in the game. For the class, yes. For the game? Not quite. It amazes me the amount of vitriol the forums conjure before taking a step back and trying to understand all of the possible reasons a change was made. As seen by recent responses to my post, it was ASSUMED the fix was made because of the launching. Its also ASSUMED the speed enhancing skill being talked about was force speed.

Its possible it was bugged when activated with mara speed buff, for example. Its also possible that it is the launch bug they are trying to fix, but that their are multiple, independent situations that need to be fixed to see it completely resolved. We don't know, do we?

But people can keep crying and raising hell if they want. Doing so just makes it more clear those players have no idea whats going on regarding the change and arent willing to understand either.

Yes i play sin and shadow. They are my most progressed toons.

 

Also, force speed is NOT the only movement enhancing ability in the game. For the class, yes. For the game? Not quite. It amazes me the amount of vitriol the forums conjure before taking a step back and trying to understand all of the possible reasons a change was made. As seen by recent responses to my post, it was ASSUMED the fix was made because of the launching. Its also ASSUMED the speed enhancing skill being talked about was force speed.

 

Its possible it was bugged when activated with mara speed buff, for example. Its also possible that it is the launch bug they are trying to fix, but that their are multiple, independent situations that need to be fixed to see it completely resolved. We don't know, do we?

 

But people can keep crying and raising hell if they want. Doing so just makes it more clear those players have no idea whats going on regarding the change and arent willing to understand either.

How is making PS respecting the GCD and having a .25 GCD after activation would solve a problem with predation ? It lasts 15" if memory serves. You have more than enough time to activate PS even with the new GCD.

I understand you want to give BW the benefit of the doubt, but here the change doesn't serve any purpose and just make sins clunkier.