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I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...


TheBBP

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EQ was pretty amazing. It was wonderous. Exploration, experience, death, and loot...all meant something.

 

Games (and players) nowadays wants everything and they want it now...with little to no effort. Its the "me me me" generation. Thats why this game, and many others this gen, rain epics from the sky.

 

Swtor is really nothing like a giant room with portals to other rooms. Zero exploration. Zero penalties for anything.

 

Maybe I'm just jaded like u OP.

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Gaming is pretty niche to begin with, and MMO's are one of the smallest sub-categories of the industry.

 

This is not true anymore. The majority of people in the Western world play computer games. It's just that they are now much older than we were "back in the day" - the average age of a gamer now is 36 and climbing. And they are much, much, MUCH more casual on the average. Not even "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" casual, more like "Words with friends" casual.

 

So companies are going after people like that. "Your mom" - literally.

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I once felt like you do, but for WoW because WoW was my first MMO.

 

Yes I think it was because we were new and noobs that made it a great experience. We didn't know what to expect, we just accepted this MMO world for what it is. And it was this magical place that kept wowing you.

 

And no, I don't think we can ever go back to those days, because back then we were like children experiencing new things.

Now, we are grown up adults living in the adult world with consequences. We cannot see MMOs with a child's eyes anymore.

 

However, I am amazed that so far, no company can make an MMO that wows us like how it wowed us the first time.

 

Just because I was wowed by Baldur's Gate 2, doesn't mean I will never be wowed by another RPG.

I have recently been wowed by games like Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, Crusader Kings, even Faster Than Light.

 

Why is there no new MMO that can wow me the way other games have in other genres? Why is the MMO market so stagnant?

 

The MMO market seems stagnate because instead of innovating, game developers have turned to Asian-inspired grind gimmickfests designed to make you spend as much time as possible paying the game company money while providing negligible rewards. Much of the content is now geared towards Lowest Common Denominator players (read - those who are easily parted with their money, and are too lazy to put any effort into playing anything) and infused with Cash Shop money grabs.

 

That being said, I have no opposition to Cash Shops per se, but I do object to Pay 2 Win and locking people out of non-expansion content just to make more money. Cosmetic armors, etc in shops are fine by me. Pets, etc in the shops are all fine by me.

 

Another reason is because instead of designers with imagination (grew up on D&D, etc) and an art degree, we get designers who graduated with an MBA (and who's imagination goes no further than how big their bonus will be) who work for publishers with only the quarterly report in mind. Then there's design by committee and design by micro-management, which are failing strategies in any business, let alone when it comes to MMOs or other games, and from what I've seen and read elsewhere are becoming more common as the more nimble game companies get swallowed up by the behemoths like EA and Activision.

Edited by Malkavier
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Back in the day when MMOs were still pretty new, I got into Everquest and it seemed amazing. The world was huge and had tons of places to explore. There were endless things to do. When you got to endgame, you actually felt powerful, like you had accomplished something. I would print out spell lists and maps and had them organized in a big folder super-geeky style. I took that game as srs bsns.

 

This thread is not to bag on SWToR or how to talk about how other games are better. I am here to ask you guys what you think is missing. I know that there are a lot of you who were blown away by Everquest or (insert your first big MMO here). What did they have that brought that sense of amazement?

 

Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?

 

I spent 8 years playing Everquest 2, same thought's like you and I would love those's type of mmo's to come back,but then EQ,EQ2,WoW have all been out for over 8-9 years and EQ is what 14 years old this year ? they all have built up there foundations over that time and current ones today don't get that chance they have to hit the floor running and trip up now and then.

For me i have been looking for last few years for a EQ2 replacement and TBH still not found one ,but I don't think I ever will, so will have to make do with what there is so I play SWTOR get bored after a period of time then swap to another MMO (GW2,TSW,LOTRO) then come back to SWTOR rinse & repeat every 6 months or so,all this is mainly down to lack of content and very long play times I do each day.

 

But I have to say I enjoy SWTOR a lot even with all the bugs and foul mouthed youngsters in Gen chat :p

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My personal RPG gaming experiences are built upon the following pillars:

 

1) Combat Fun

 

No matter what game it is, I have to have fun killing stuff. This can be achieved through interesting animations, epic enemies, combos, group work, whatever. Considering the majority of my time in MMOs is spent in combat, this must be fun.

 

2) Sense of Achievement

 

I need to feel like I am taking on a challenge and beating it, because beating something I consider challenging makes me feel good. Again, this can come in many, many forms for different players. In most games, for me, this takes the form of beating hard bosses or beating hundreds of smaller mobs at once. In other games, this achievement has come from exploration, completion of deeds, acquisition of gear etc.

 

3) Completion of the Meta Game

 

Virtually all RPGs follow the same principles of combat: hit a button, perform a skill that does damage, eventually kill the enemy. The meta game is what I consider to be the specific mechanics that underpin the combat, from stat allocation, skill points, talents to gear, skills etc. Every game has a meta game and generally, for me, understanding the meta game and using it to my advantage is both fun and rewarding.

 

4) Constant Character Improvement

 

This can come from levels, gear acquisition, skill points, deed completion or whatever. I love "getting better" and it is something that drives me to continue playing RPGs long after I should have put the controller down! It fosters attachment to your character which again increases enjoyment of the game.

 

5) Enjoyment of the World

 

A well built world to explore is another key part of my RPG experience. Finding those hidden gems, those extra dungeons, that boss monster with no quest attached....a good game world is the setting for every single thing you do in game so it needs to be done right!

 

 

 

The reason I believe many modern MMOs fail to "wow" us any more is because our sense of achievement has been massively diminished and our enjoyment of the meta game has been destroyed by plagurism. Too many modern MMOs have "copied" the WoW formula. As a result, the learning curve is very short and easy which reduces our sense of achievement as a veteran MMO player. That, for me, leaves the combat, character advancement and the world as the main things left to enjoy, however in TOR specifically the character advancement is mostly pointless and the world is not well designed.

 

For example, I am currently playing Sacred 2 with my brother on the 360. The meta game is ridiculous, there is soooo much to think about when building your character that is has been enjoyable and extremely satisfying working out the meta game. Your character can reach level 200 so you are constantly leveling up which keeps you craving for more. There is also a ridiculous amount of loot so we literally leave no stone unturned because we might randomly find "the next weapon".

 

That no longer happens in MMOs because you know that by completing quests, you'll get rewards which are enough to level you up to max level. I have never once felt the need to loot a chest in TOR because i know it'll be mostly junk or just something equivalent to what i already have.

 

 

 

The solution, for new MMOs, is to be original. This means taking a risk which is why not too many people are doing it, but if well thought out then it will pay off. Give people a new meta game to learn, new mechanics to learn, new worlds to explore and make them feel good for doing it. You cannot give someone a sense of achievement if you dont make something hard for someone to achieve! To achieve the "wow" effect, you need to actually "wow" them and that is not possible when plagurising other people's games.

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I'm afraid MMO's have for the most part reached maximum entropy. Sure there are tweaks that can be made, but there will be no new big leaps until the breakthrough of AI.

 

With that breakthrough, you will finally have a true living virtual world.

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Meh. Nothing is ever as good as when you first discovered it. My first MMO was LOTRO, shortly after it launched. It was amazing to me, I'd never experienced any game like it. I loved that there were tons of other players, I loved the ongoing persistent world feel.

 

5 years later, and I've played quite a few MMOs in the interim. None have captured what LOTRO was for me when I first logged in, because nothing could have been my first MMO experience again. It's the same with other things in life: I play music a lot, and I really enjoy it. I'm not a professional musician, I'm a hobbyist that plays in a couple local bands and plays gigs once or twice a month. I still enjoy it, but it is NOTHING like the first time I got to do it.

 

People look at things in the past through rose colored glasses. Perhaps their first time playing UO or some of the older MMOs they were teenagers or younger, they discovered something completely new to them and it made them very happy. But a lot of that isn't the GAME that people remember fondly, it's that NEW experience and perhaps pleasant reminiscing about a very nice time in their lives.

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This is not true anymore. The majority of people in the Western world play computer games. It's just that they are now much older than we were "back in the day" - the average age of a gamer now is 36 and climbing. And they are much, much, MUCH more casual on the average. Not even "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" casual, more like "Words with friends" casual.

 

So companies are going after people like that. "Your mom" - literally.

 

The combined total of all subscribers of all MMO's in the Western world is miniscule. It's less, much less, than 1% of the population.

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I'm afraid MMO's have for the most part reached maximum entropy. Sure there are tweaks that can be made, but there will be no new big leaps until the breakthrough of AI.

 

With that breakthrough, you will finally have a true living virtual world.

 

That doesn't explain why mob AI in TOR looks like something from an Xbox action game. Mob AI in other MMO's and solo games (including most Bioware games, they do know how to program AI) is head and shoulders above any I've seen in TOR.

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What has happened?

 

Stagnation.

 

If SWTOR had come out 10 years ago, it would've been the most amazing thing we'd ever experienced in PC gaming. But the new hotness quickly fades and is replaced by a newer, more innovative hotness. Nothing will maintain appeal forever.

 

Many MMOs releasing that have been in development have wanted to be WoW. I think its only in this past year, with the lukewarm reception of SWTOR and other games going free-to-play that the industry has realized gamers don't want another WoW. Gamers want something new and unexpected.

 

I look at something like Destiny, and think maybe that will have what it takes. Or maybe the foundry system in Neverwinter will redefine the MMO endgame. I'm not sure where the next dazzling formula will come from, but some developer will eventually find it, and we'll be amazed again.

 

In the meantime, there are great games all around, whether for console, iPad, even in-browser. They don't all provide the sense of wonder and exploration a lot of us crave, but there's plenty to be appreciated, just as there is in SWTOR.

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A wonderful thread if you ask me. This is something I have spent a lot of time thinking about some years ago. For me it all began with my first MMO which was good old Ultima Online and I played that for straight 10 years (sounds weirder now that I wrote it than it felt). That alone might tell you how much it amazed me and stunned me for many years - but as any MMO even this amazement has faded, without switching the game. So it cannot have something to do with that or with a specific game "missing" things, at least not from my perspective since I never switched it and the feeling still disappeared. One might ponder if it was all because I was so used to it - but that was not the case either, since after those 10 years I did switch a lot and was in many many betas (Everquest 2 among them btw) - but none has stunned me or had an equally charming appeal to me. Partially that was because I was not willing to sacrifice the huge amount of roleplay we had going in UO, part of that certainly can never be explained properly and some parts of it I have discovered after pondering, I think.

 

What really makes a game shine and stand out, amaze you and drag you in - I for one had a good amount of that reappearing when I began to play SW:TOR with my spouse. That amazed me and I pondered and thought about why it happened here but didn't happen in EQ2, in Eve Online, in DaOC, in Neocron 2 or any other MMO since Ultima Online. Then I started to compare those and eventhough SW:TOR is much much different from UO it does have certain core features that link both, and first of all that is: having an interesting lore and universe. I remember that back in UO I used to frequent a website about it and even printed out the lore stuff from there as well as some newbie guides - and I found myself archiving lots of lore content and spending many many hours on Wookieepedia when I began with SW:TOR because I was sincerely interested in the lore (I always had a soft spot for the original SW movies but I never was a die hard fan... until sw:tor).

 

A second link certainly is the feeling of being part of something glorious, something very new and shining - as for example sw:tors countless cut-scenes and dialogues that never fail to amaze me, right now I am deeply in love with the designs for the Grey Secant (Tron, anyone?) and this feeling has not faded ever since, I still consider sw:tor to be the top of the list when it comes to quest narration and I can understand why a MMO does not offer tons of different solutions to quests (it would be an insane workload) - rather than wasting my energy on lamenting about that, I do enjoy the hilarious one-liners for example my Bounty Hunter drops ("I maybe negotiated with his face a little."). That one even made it into Real-Life communication with friends and guildmates here.

 

Third comes the last link I have discovered that might have something to do with the affect - and that is the game's level of thought. To explain what I mean with this - I do mean the way things are designed and the reason behind that. See.. as I have been in many betas, many MMOs and such I did see tons of bad decisions. When I began SW:TOR I was repeatedly being heard saying things like "Wow, they thought about that? That's quite amazing" and "So.. they blocked this since it could lead to that exploit? Cool thing" - and that is just part of what I thought. Sure, there were and still are bugs in SW:TOR but I dont know any MMO without bugs, nor do I think I ever will. The reason why this amazes me and makes me happy and feel "magic" is because of the way the Devs approach the community - they do it on par but they also do NOT feed the trolls, they don't say "Oh sure we will quickly do as you asked us to do! Sorry, dear customer! Will be fixed right now!" but instead they evaluate community reports as much as their own data. Trust me, fellow readers, that is so incredibly rare and brave that it amazes me. It is the same reason why the Ultima Online community never had many problems with whinery and players "demanding" things in the long run - because they knew that was pointless. Solutions were found where they were needed and if someone was being ganked all day long and robbed clean of all items (that was possible in UO) ...then it was his bad personal luck and his fault for carrying around all the valueables he had. No use to complain. That is essentially how it is here and I really appreciate this. The absolutely worst community-to-staff communication I have ever ever ever witnessed was in "Champions Online" - the staff made hotfixes over hotfixes so much that the expression Flavor of the Month was reduced to Flavor of the Patch, as in classes being completely revamped every few weeks, their skills being changed drastically every few weeks and all of that just due to whining in forums.

 

All of this is parts of the reasons why SW:TOR still amazes me and keeps me hooked. Yes, the magic of the first half year has faded - but now I enjoy the harder content more and more and I take my time about it, as does my guild. We like things close-knit, familiar, on our own pace. That does keep the magic alive on quite some weekends and I dare say that this is also our own achievement and also our own burden. We try to make things special, try to really stand out together in the way we communicate with each other and try to achieve a shared-consciousness level tactical understanding of each another.

 

Sorry for the very long post but it really was needed to vent this here along with my thoughts on the various reasons for what might lack - and that is "Not much" since the main thing that lacks imho is for people to get together and do outstanding stuff together. Just wait until the first musicians among us create sw:tor songs (Midas, I miss you) ;)

 

 

 

My gosh that was a wonderful read! :jawa_smile:

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Its an interesting thread and like many others my first serious MMO (EQ) is the one that had the most wonderment.

 

But EQ was also different in that there were very little handouts, especially pre-Kunark expansion. Hell levels, exp loss and some classes didnt even have quest armor. Raids of 50 people, complete wipes, having to find scattered bodies, camping rare spawns, etc. My most memorable moment is when I got my Epic weapon, but was it really worth camping Venril Sathir for like 7 days?

 

SWTOR is a fun game, but the risk/fear just isnt there like it was in EQ. That being said, I dont even know if I would enjoy EQ anymore. Part of me likes the laid back lifestyle and being able to level at a decent pace.

Edited by Soxbadger
typo
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The combined total of all subscribers of all MMO's in the Western world is miniscule. It's less, much less, than 1% of the population.

 

The combined total of all subscribers of all MMO's in the Western world is miniscule. It's less, much less, than 1% of the population.

 

Speaking just of the U.S.:

 

There's an article from 2009 stating that 46 million people in the US play MMOs. Another article from 2011 puts this number at 39 million active U.S. MMO players.

 

It's currently estimated that there are 315 million people in the U.S. as of 2012. That's somewhere around 8-9% of people in the U.S. playing some form of MMO (F2P or otherwise). That's pretty impressive considering when you account for demographics and other limiations (gotta have internet, computers are not in every household, etc....). I expect that this percentage will grow over time now that mobile gaming has introduced millions of people to the concept of gaming with others online....and companies are following suit: just take a gander at Bungie's Destiny project...

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Speaking just of the U.S.:

 

There's an article from 2009 stating that 46 million people in the US play MMOs. Another article from 2011 puts this number at 39 million active U.S. MMO players.

 

Thank you for the links. If you talk about other types of social games, the numbers are even higher. People play online with other people... and they are gamers, even if they don't raid for 3 hours a night. The demographics changed A LOT in the last twenty years, as well.

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So false

 

SWG (all 30k of them remaining at end) Want pre CU back

 

Truth is SWG lost subs just as fast as TOR does

The two games run very simular sub loss patterns and time lines actually

 

The good news for you is you get that game from all reports in Arch Age and guess we find out a year after its release how popular your Sandbox really is (If all the failed sandbox designs thus far havent convinced you)

 

Im not saying SW:TOR great btw.

Its not and im about done with game.

This event pushed me over the limit of my patience in waiting for things to get done right

 

But there IS a reason SWG did so many game change designs and it WASNT just to be like WOW (as the vocal few like to claim)

They had mass sub loss issues from the get go as well and were trying to patch the leaky ship

All these now rose colored glasses reviews you read here do NOT accurately describe the truth of SWG and the plethora of issues the game encountered and the constantly shrinking subscription pool of players.

 

TOR right now has ALLOT MORE subs then SWG had after its first year (But TOR drawing from a much bigger pool so thats not really the compliment it sounds like)

 

Fact is were still waiting for the Star wars MMORPG that captures STAR WARS FRANCHISE

 

TOR is WOW with a Star Wars shell

SWG was UO with a Star Wars shell

now if only a developer would make STAR WARS with a Star Wars shell

 

LOL, if SWG was even as remotely popular and profitable as you all claim

It would still be open and running and Lucas Arts would have scoffed at idea of closing it to make room for TOR

 

Your stupidity strikes us again.

 

The people who remained with SWG at the end were the ones who enjoyed the NGE.

 

The simple fact a MMO has never lost a bigger percentage of it's playerbase then the NGE did shows how dumb you are for using that as an example of how Sandbox games fail.

 

And no it is a fact the NGE was made to make SWG more like WoW. Those mass sub loses you talk about is ********.

 

ArchAge is just another craptastic Korean MMO in the making, anyone who believes otherwise is as clueless as you are.

 

And SWG was popular, as I said in a post you had to ignore because you can't counter any of it, it's the bugs that never were fixed and the only content that was being added was WoWified is what killed the game off.

 

I'm still waiting for you to describe how EVE Online is a such a massive failure when it's the only MMO to be running for so long and yet only have GAINED subs in the mean time.

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My most memorable moment is when I get my Epic weapon, but was it really worth camping Venril Sathir for like 7 days?

 

Without a doubt. I'd like to say that I would do it again, but while I pine for the old days, I think that I am too spoiled to work like that again lol.

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To me the overarching issue is the simple fact that games are no longer typically designed or marketed for gamers anymore, not that this is ultimately a "bad" thing (it can be and has proven to be the case more and more.), they are marketed at the general consumer. Now I don't want to get too far up on my metaphorical high horse (and no it is not made of stars...) but I am sure that is bound to happen at various points through out this post, consider yourselves warned.

 

I think that the fact that to be a "AAA" MMO nowadays, that you have to cater to the most people possible. It is a bit sad that TOR seems to have been developed for the masses rather than the gamers. I do not mean that as a knock on TOR, but I do believe that games like this could benefit from targeting an audience and going after them rather than trying to sweep everyone under one game. EVE excels at this.

 

I absolutely love the story in TOR. I love the cutscenes and I love trying to win my conversation choice in multiplayer conversations. I am a big fan of the chosen classes. What I don't like is that we are all the "hero".

 

In a game like EQ, you felt as if you were one of MANY denizens of that world who were fighting to end (or expand) the evils in that world. I am more of a fan of that than being "The Chosen One". However, TOR does do a great job in the character story of making you feel like the Chosen One.

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Your stupidity strikes us again.

I'm still waiting for you to describe how EVE Online is a such a massive failure when it's the only MMO to be running for so long and yet only have GAINED subs in the mean time.

 

This is definitely true, and you can't argue with it. The problem is that every major MMO release now wants to be the next WoW. There won't be another WoW unless Blizzard creates a WoW 2. EVE is a good example of a successful MMO that never was and never will be WoW, but they decided instead to make a niche game that would appeal very much to a certain type of gamer. The result is a loyal playerbase, but not a MASSIVE one. Just because an MMO doesn't have millions of subs doesn't mean it isn't a success, MMO players now judge all MMOs by whether or not they have have as many subs as WoW. None do, none will. EVE certainly doesn't--but it does what it does well and many players really, really enjoy it.

 

It comes down to this: do you want to make a mass-market game that appeals to as many folks as possible? That's great, but you have to understand that the more "mass-market, try to cater to everyone" you make a game, the fewer hard core players you will have that will stay for very prolonged periods of time. If instead you go into a niche and really try to be great at that niche then players that like that style will be very pleased. You might not get as MANY players, but many of the ones you get will stick around. Lots of people don't like sandbox, but lots of people do. EVE is pure sandbox, and there aren't many MMOs that cater to this market. So EVE has been a big success--not because it has 5 million players (it doesn't) but because the playerbase has sustained and even grown.

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I think that the fact that to be a "AAA" MMO nowadays, that you have to cater to the most people possible. It is a bit sad that TOR seems to have been developed for the masses rather than the gamers. I do not mean that as a knock on TOR, but I do believe that games like this could benefit from targeting an audience and going after them rather than trying to sweep everyone under one game. EVE excels at this.

 

I absolutely love the story in TOR. I love the cutscenes and I love trying to win my conversation choice in multiplayer conversations. I am a big fan of the chosen classes. What I don't like is that we are all the "hero".

 

In a game like EQ, you felt as if you were one of MANY denizens of that world who were fighting to end (or expand) the evils in that world. I am more of a fan of that than being "The Chosen One". However, TOR does do a great job in the character story of making you feel like the Chosen One.

 

I think I typed my response at the same time you were typing yours. I very much agree with your points. I think SWTOR does the story very well. I know not everyone thinks so, but I do and I enjoy the story very much, even the story in the ops and the flashpoints. I've had many, many, many hours of fun playing alts and seeing different class stories, and doing light and dark side characters. It would be nice to be able to make a character that was "part" of the struggle rather than the central character in it, but everything has its downsides.

 

I definitely agree about the fact that AAA MMOs have to cater to the mass market. There's too much money on the line not to have to do so. MMOs take years to develop and many don't even make it onto the market. So you have to try to cater to as many players as possible, so we see fewer games that cater to certain niches of gamers.

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Back in the day when MMOs were still pretty new, I got into Everquest and it seemed amazing. The world was huge and had tons of places to explore. There were endless things to do. When you got to endgame, you actually felt powerful, like you had accomplished something. I would print out spell lists and maps and had them organized in a big folder super-geeky style. I took that game as srs bsns.

 

This thread is not to bag on SWToR or how to talk about how other games are better. I am here to ask you guys what you think is missing. I know that there are a lot of you who were blown away by Everquest or (insert your first big MMO here). What did they have that brought that sense of amazement?

 

Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?

 

SWTOR was my first MMO, im 24, and never had a PC to run computer games until about 4 years ago. I purchased WoW a couple years back, tried to get into it a couple times, then gave up on MMO's and continued console gaming and playing some other genre (Starcraft 2, minecraft, and a couple other RTS's).

 

When Swtor came out i had that feeling, but, it did not last as long as I thought it would. As a matter of a fact, I love this game, but already quit 2 times for about a month (but keep coming back). I now have Tera, WoW, Runes of Magic, Guildwars 2, and Rift expereince, but none of them could compare to swtor IMO.

 

It has a lot to do with them not having certain things the others do (Guild Quests, Acheivements (both player and guild), open world PvP, Guild gear, ect.). I absolutely love the game through, just wish they offered more for guilds to do, and work on.

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Its interesting that people say there will never be another WOW.

 

At one point there was never going to be another NWN, there was never going to be another EQ, yet WOW still came. I admittedly never played WOW, but that was because by the time WOW was released I had already spent so much time in EQ, and EQ had just become a nonsensical grind fest after the release of Velious. I want dragon faction to dragon quests, oh wait now the guild wants giant faction for giant quests.

 

This game could be EQ good, it really just needs some slight tinkering. The problem is that tinkering would probably make the game more difficult, which just isnt allowable in todays market.

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Its interesting that people say there will never be another WOW.

 

At one point there was never going to be another NWN, there was never going to be another EQ, yet WOW still came. I admittedly never played WOW, but that was because by the time WOW was released I had already spent so much time in EQ, and EQ had just become a nonsensical grind fest after the release of Velious. I want dragon faction to dragon quests, oh wait now the guild wants giant faction for giant quests.

 

This game could be EQ good, it really just needs some slight tinkering. The problem is that tinkering would probably make the game more difficult, which just isnt allowable in todays market.

Valid points, but not everyone enjoyed or would have enjoyed EQ. I'm 34 years old, I work full time, I have a wife and family obligations, and other hobbies. I would never pay for a sub to any game that involved long spawn camps, taking forever to accomplish anything, onerous death penalties, corpse runs, etc. I know some people like that type of gaming experience, and that's cool. But I would not like it at all, and would promptly cancel my subscription.

 

I like to log in, be run an op with guild mates, maybe a flashpoint, run an alt through story. Some gamers would consider me wanting "instant gratification" or EZ mode. And they would be right. I want to log in and do something. I might have only an hour or two to play, and its rare for me to have a 3+ hour stretch to play without interruption. When I was 17 I could play games for hours on end, but I can't now. I do not want to waste any of my time camping a spawn point or regaining lost xp from a death or anything like that.

 

I'm not saying all players are like me, but I suspect (not based on empirical evidence, mind you, just an opinion) that taking this game in the direction of UO or in any way back to the ways of the old hard-core MMOs would result in many players quitting. I can't say that is a fact, but I can say it is a fact that I would stop playing.

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Oh I agree. Ive previously said that I dont even know if I would play EQ today, just because of the nonsense. The reason I enjoy SWTOR is because I can actually play the game by myself for a few hours and actually enjoy it.

 

There just was more wonderment in a game like Everquest, where you could get legitimately lost, find yourself in an area that is way too hard and maybe have trouble actually getting your gear back. Im sure there are still corpses of mine in Everfrost that I never found when I was a new player.

 

That is not to say that game is better. Its just you have a greater sense of satisfaction when you had to struggle for everything.

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Speaking just of the U.S.:

 

There's an article from 2009 stating that 46 million people in the US play MMOs. Another article from 2011 puts this number at 39 million active U.S. MMO players.

 

It's currently estimated that there are 315 million people in the U.S. as of 2012. That's somewhere around 8-9% of people in the U.S. playing some form of MMO (F2P or otherwise). That's pretty impressive considering when you account for demographics and other limiations (gotta have internet, computers are not in every household, etc....). I expect that this percentage will grow over time now that mobile gaming has introduced millions of people to the concept of gaming with others online....and companies are following suit: just take a gander at Bungie's Destiny project...

 

Those are crazy numbers that can't possibly be accurate if counting just MMO's.

 

WoW peaked at something like 10 million world-wide and it probably has more subscribers than all other MMO's combined. The majority of those "subscriptions" are Asian market and not on the same level, dollar-wise, as Western accounts.

 

Last official word we had was TOR was sitting around 500k subscribers, and it was #2 in subscriber numbers.

 

So, unless there is some top secret MMO out there with 30 million secret subscribers, then those numbers are pure fantasy.

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  • 3 months later...
Oh I agree. Ive previously said that I dont even know if I would play EQ today, just because of the nonsense. The reason I enjoy SWTOR is because I can actually play the game by myself for a few hours and actually enjoy it.

 

There just was more wonderment in a game like Everquest, where you could get legitimately lost, find yourself in an area that is way too hard and maybe have trouble actually getting your gear back. Im sure there are still corpses of mine in Everfrost that I never found when I was a new player.

 

That is not to say that game is better. Its just you have a greater sense of satisfaction when you had to struggle for everything.

 

It is not my intention to say that any game is better than another. They are too hard to compare when they are so different. I will stand by the fact that no other game has left me in a sense of wonder like EQ did.

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