Made up stats are made up. I was in a wz the other day where everyone else on my side with a SIN except me, and everyone on the other team was a shadow/sage except for one smuggler...i've been in many war zones where there were alot of warrior types (alot of whom may or may not have been smash spec) and in many war zones where there were less then alot. Just because you say this is what you see, doesnt mean its true no matter how hard you want it to be. And no matter how many whiners in this thread will agree with you and call me a retard, I don't really care because most of these people have terrible rationale for their arguments and dont realize how stupid they sound.

You misunderstood. I wasnt refering to the opponents or classes. I was refering to many team mates' inability to focus a healer, even if that healer is marked. I could probably count the times a random team mate of mine has marked a healer on one hand....and I've played far more than 5 games

If they nerf rage spec(juggernauts) then they are a useless class...tank for flashpoints are good but for OP are just useless even if you try your best still it isn't worth the nervs.

Bubbles prevent about 4k damage, which is why he is arguing that it adds 4k health. Now he's entirely forgetting the 3 seconds of downtime that everyone within 5 meters of you are forced to wait because of bubble stun, allowing you to be healed or run/kite, which is why a bubble stun is more like a second lease on life.

And for smash needing a nerf, I did 1.1k dps in my 3rd wz as smash, it needs a nerf.

 

Problem with the bubble is that he is assuming every sage is built the same. A full heal Sage will not have the bubble stun.

I am getting really tired of people QQing in mmos. "Its to hard to beat this class nerf it so I don't have to learn how to play." Get over your instant gratification issues and actually learn how to play your class and stop QQing about people who take the time to learn the optimal way to play their class and teach others how to do the same. You people are ruining mmos by having the devs spend unneeded time on nerfing a class when they can be using that time to make the game more intricate and give us more areas and things to do. People like you destroyed SWG and now it seems you want to do the same to this game, first is was the op/scoundrel that was op now because of you people no one wants to play a dps op/scoundrel, then like was said before was the chain lightning/tele wave now no one wants to play that ac, now your picking on Juggs. I can remember a time when Juggs had really no dmg in pvp they were just meat shields to protect the healer, now they have a viable place in pvp dmg and because you don't want to learn a new mechanic/tactic to combat that the devs have to nerf Jugg smash? What happens when your class starts to do well in pvp bet you won't be on here going "oh please nerf my class it does to much dmg" no your be fighting against people like you who want your class nerfed. Get over it learn to play your class and evolve in your tactics as the game evolves instead of crying.

I am getting really tired of people QQing in mmos. "Its to hard to beat this class nerf it so I don't have to learn how to play." Get over your instant gratification issues and actually learn how to play your class and stop QQing about people who take the time to learn the optimal way to play their class and teach others how to do the same. You people are ruining mmos by having the devs spend unneeded time on nerfing a class when they can be using that time to make the game more intricate and give us more areas and things to do. People like you destroyed SWG and now it seems you want to do the same to this game, first is was the op/scoundrel that was op now because of you people no one wants to play a dps op/scoundrel, then like was said before was the chain lightning/tele wave now no one wants to play that ac, now your picking on Juggs. I can remember a time when Juggs had really no dmg in pvp they were just meat shields to protect the healer, now they have a viable place in pvp dmg and because you don't want to learn a new mechanic/tactic to combat that the devs have to nerf Jugg smash? What happens when your class starts to do well in pvp bet you won't be on here going "oh please nerf my class it does to much dmg" no your be fighting against people like you who want your class nerfed. Get over it learn to play your class and evolve in your tactics as the game evolves instead of crying.

 

Not sure if stupid or serious

 

AOE bombs should be cast or channeled if anything

 

P.s Don't forgot that is is auto-crit

Edited January 27, 2013 by Amebia

Inow your picking on Juggs. I can remember a time when Juggs had really no dmg in pvp they were just meat shields to protect the healer,

 

that was never the case. bad players couldn't do anything but meat shield. some of the best dps in the game were focus guardians/rage juggs. proof? they didn't buff smash. they just made it CONSIDERABLY easier to play. now every idiot in the knight/warrior class rolls it. that's a problem.

that was never the case. bad players couldn't do anything but meat shield. some of the best dps in the game were focus guardians/rage juggs. proof? they didn't buff smash. they just made it CONSIDERABLY easier to play. now every idiot in the knight/warrior class rolls it. that's a problem.

Let's hope that doesnt happen to assassins. It's going to be hell if every player out there all of a sudden can play it to its' full potential. *shivers*

You misunderstood. I wasnt refering to the opponents or classes. I was refering to many team mates' inability to focus a healer, even if that healer is marked. I could probably count the times a random team mate of mine has marked a healer on one hand....and I've played far more than 5 games

Forgive me for misunderstanding your point. I do see what you are saying and have experience similar obviously; however, realistically it sounds like the point is that people are too stupid to use any kind of brains to counter a class and theyd rather it just be done via a nerf.

Let's hope that doesnt happen to assassins. It's going to be hell if every player out there all of a sudden can play it to its' full potential. *shivers*

 

heh. deception is pretty easy. at least in the lone wolf aggressor role. much easier than scrapper, imo.

Not sure if stupid or serious

 

AOE bombs should be cast or channeled if anything

 

P.s Don't forgot that is is auto-crit

 

Yeah, I'm sure a melee class would have zero problems channeling or having a casting time on smash....they would immediatly be interrupted and dead in seconds.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Darth-Rammstein

Smash isnt a problem alone, they are squishy, the smash can lose all of it's juice if u'd just cc them or not bunch up in a crowd. Or take the first hit on the face, shrug and kill them. The real problem is facing a team of people coordinating their smashes, and you cant really get mad at them for that. Would u get mad at a team of Op's stunlockeing everyon e to death at once? or 7 orbital strikes stacked on the node?

So 5 smashers nearly kill 5 of your people who were stacked in the perfectly idiotic bunch and let 5 people leap to them....yep it took 5 to almost wipe out 5...sounds OP

 

Just realize you arent mad at the spec your mad at a bunch of people using the spec

and you cant call for a revamp of a spec if it's effectiveness relies on lots of people doing it at the same time.

 

That being said I've been defense since launch, i find smash boring, but all this QQ without any sense just bugs me

The only somewhat fair SOLUTION TO SMASH

keep the same except leap gives 70-75% crit chance, this means they still need to gear for some crit which means they cant go allll power and surge With proper gear its still auto crit bu just not as much power. Even still, i dont think that is necessary since smash Requires several smashing friends to be truly great, alone they are still sad. And that is what we balance for how does this class work 1 v 1? not how does this class work if everyone wants to do it?

Edited January 27, 2013 by supafreak

The only somewhat fair SOLUTION TO SMASH

keep the same except leap gives 70-75% crit chance, this means they still need to gear for some crit which means they cant go allll power and surge With proper gear its still auto crit bu just not as much power. Even still, i dont think that is necessary since smash Requires several smashing friends to be truly great, alone they are still sad. And that is what we balance for how does this class work 1 v 1? not how does this class work if everyone wants to do it?

 

75% crit chance would not change anything. You would still have the base crit chance that every player gets which is, if I remember right, 15% + 5% from the scoundrel/operative buff. So yeah, that's still 95%. We can also toss in the 1% from the companion, and whatever crit chance they will gain from their main stat. End result in a crit chance of nearing 100% anyway.

 

Remove the auto crit and give them an on demand crit buff like Battle Focus with the same crit percentage and cool down.

Edited January 27, 2013 by DariusCalera

Yeah, I'm sure a melee class would have zero problems channeling or having a casting time on smash....they would immediatly be interrupted and dead in seconds.

 

no. I think you miss the point here. many melee classes DO rely on channels. the most effective of which is the combat/carnage dual wielder tree. however, the tactics/ap trooper/bh tree also relies on a channel (the difference between the two channels is kinda neat, aoe/st, one roots while the other can rotate), as does the tankasin.

 

they are all counterable and avoidable if the right cd is available. but they are also both immune to interrupts. THAT'S the candy you dangle to melee channels when the channel is fundamental to their rotation. BW has firmly established that fact based on the channels of sins, bhs, and warriors. I don't think that's even disputable.

People need to realize that smash spec is not as severely overpowered as people say it is. With some simple warzone awareness, a group could realize that the jugg that's placed himself between 4-5 enemies is actually guaranteed to die if those targets would just turn and attack him.

 

The weakness of this spec needs to be exploited, and it is that the smasher is constantly putting himself in harms way surrounded by multiple enemies, and before you know it, you don't have a smash problem anymore.

 

A melee class would not complain about ranged damage without actually trying to close the gap and fight the range and stop him from free casting. The advantage ranged has is that they can place themselves somewhere in range of their healers but out of range of the enemy dps.

 

Stop complaining about a spec that is really not that powerful; it hits hard but that's required since if they can't do damage quickly they won't do any at all since they're dead so soon. People suggesting 3-5 different changes to the spec don't understand how the spec works... nerf it and no one will play it, whats the point of that?

 

Please explain why the smash needs to be the hardest hitting attack, and AOE, and automatically crit all while being able to hit up to 5 targets. Compare it to death field.

 

Death field is a talent. Smash is baseline.

You cannot reduce death fields cool down. You can spec to reduce smashs cooldown, and proc even more reductions.

Death field can hit up to 3 targets. Smash can hit up to 5 targets.

Death field's critical chance is never anywhere near 100%. It's trivial to make smash critically hit every single time it's used.

Death field on a full warhero sorc can crit for about 4.5k, with a critical hit chance of about 35%.

Smash can crit for 7.5k or more. When I say "can", what I really mean is it WILL crit every single time.

Death field has a 30m range. Smash has a 5m range, however, force leap has a 30m range, and it makes smash auto-crit, so in practice, the range difference is almost irrelevant.

 

There is a very simple reason why people say smash is over powered.

 

It is.

 

Of course, that isn't the whole story. Fact: one spec in this game has 4 moves that all hit for more then 5k. That same class also has the hardest hitting attack in the game, that can hit up to 5 targets. The same class also has arguably the best defensive cooldowns in the game.

Fact: no other class has multiple moves in the same spec that can hit for over 5k, some classes have no such moves with any spec.

Edited January 27, 2013 by vermura

My main class is the scoundrel, we got chain nerfed like 3 times in a row. I still play it. Yet the smash monkeys that can match my best single target ability can do their as an AoE over and over again. Yet I have to be behind the mob in stealth with my weapon buff on. Sounds fair....

 

It doesn't matter which class you want to compare it to, the spec is over powered. Half the damage and take away the auto crit. Problem solved.

My main class is the scoundrel, we got chain nerfed like 3 times in a row. I still play it. Yet the smash monkeys that can match my best single target ability can do their as an AoE over and over again. Yet I have to be behind the mob in stealth with my weapon buff on. Sounds fair....

 

It doesn't matter which class you want to compare it to, the spec is over powered. Half the damage and take away the auto crit. Problem solved.

 

 

 

 

what you say=juggernauts will be a fail class and many will roll maras then probably op`s and so on...like a migration...get over it.Juggernauts if they take the smash or lowers dmg with 50% i`m leaving the game for ever and i`m p2p.It isn`t possible that so many crybabies are complanining cuz smash can be AVOIDED, if someone is stupid enough to stay in range then its their fault not who executes the smash skill.I am a trooper commando and i can say this shut up crybabies!

I understand how annoying it is to face a team of warriors i faced 7 today

As OP writes, smashers jumps into a crowd for most usefullnes of the smash, but also tends to put themself in a dangerous position, also if people spread out more they will see a difference.

 

Once someone posts about how someone smashed them for 9k this thread is a joke, why?

- Because with pvp gear it wont happen, ive seen a 13k sorc, most ove sweeped him for was 9,8 without inspiraton

 

***** please i have been smash on my sorc for 7.2k , with 1280 expertise =)

No, no, smash is not bad at all... I love it! You can now faceroll people dead instantly without any effort. Awesome! Edited January 27, 2013 by Beansoup

what you say=juggernauts will be a fail class and many will roll maras then probably op`s and so on...like a migration...get over it.Juggernauts if they take the smash or lowers dmg with 50% i`m leaving the game for ever and i`m p2p.It isn`t possible that so many crybabies are complanining cuz smash can be AVOIDED, if someone is stupid enough to stay in range then its their fault not who executes the smash skill.I am a trooper commando and i can say this shut up crybabies!

 

You're crying...

Please explain why the smash needs to be the hardest hitting attack, and AOE, and automatically crit all while being able to hit up to 5 targets. Compare it to death field.

 

Death field is a talent. Smash is baseline.

You cannot reduce death fields cool down. You can spec to reduce smashs cooldown, and proc even more reductions.

Death field can hit up to 3 targets. Smash can hit up to 5 targets.

Death field's critical chance is never anywhere near 100%. It's trivial to make smash critically hit every single time it's used.

Death field on a full warhero sorc can crit for about 4.5k, with a critical hit chance of about 35%.

Smash can crit for 7.5k or more. When I say "can", what I really mean is it WILL crit every single time.

Death field has a 30m range. Smash has a 5m range, however, force leap has a 30m range, and it makes smash auto-crit, so in practice, the range difference is almost irrelevant.

 

There is a very simple reason why people say smash is over powered.

 

It is.

 

Of course, that isn't the whole story. Fact: one spec in this game has 4 moves that all hit for more then 5k. That same class also has the hardest hitting attack in the game, that can hit up to 5 targets. The same class also has arguably the best defensive cooldowns in the game.

Fact: no other class has multiple moves in the same spec that can hit for over 5k, some classes have no such moves with any spec.

 

I don't even death field recruits for 4.5k at nearly 900 FP, *** am i doing wrong there?

theres so many ways to avoid smash its not even funny.. they are very predictable..

Uhhh you mark healers and try to kill them first....I'm not seeing the problem here.

 

(This was in response to my point that suggesting we focus fire, taunt and control the smashers is a hint that they are unbalanced).

 

There is a big difference between a healer and a dps. A healer left unpressured can dramatically change the course of a skirmish. And this is how it should be, or else why have healers. They are a vital part of the meta-game.

 

On the other hand, when you single out a dps and say, "They are not so bad to deal with. Just focus all your dps, taunts and controlling effects on them. Simple!" that's a big tip off that something is wrong. If the classes were balanced, all dps would be equally dangerous, with each maybe having a situational advantage (e.g., snipers in huttball)

+1 to this post. I don't even play a knight or warrior and I agree. They aren't that hard to deal with its just when you let them roam free is when they bend you over. Learn his to deal with them and stop running around like ants in a rain storm and many you want get so wet.

theres so many ways to avoid smash its not even funny.. they are very predictable..

 

Avoid it?! Please...enlighten us. How can people avoid being rooted and smashed?