I am going to go ahead and say making Sanguinary shot/Toxic blast cost energy is going to make it more elitist as you have to deal with energy management now instead of not really before hand. The initial damage may help those who aren't experts or very familiar with the spec but overall, its going to be more difficult to parse on bosses/dummies.

I think it is going negative, like AP PT. Ever so slowly.

Class Changes? Lol. Easier target swap? No. Better dot spread? No. Less then four CDs to start doing damage? No. Overall quality of life improvments? NO. Let's just nerf damage and call it "Class Changes". I do not understand, why they want to keep Toxic Blast after this changes, it has no synergy with Cull anymore, just give us another weak dot to spam.

And what about PvP? Look, everybody plays lethality in pvp! Well, nope. And now this spec will be even less popular.

If you nerf spec, then give something in return. But who cares. As always.

Corrisve Assault still procs dots, which in likelihood will still proc from Toxic Blast, so there's still synergy there. As for nerfing its damage, it makes sense, Lethality was parsing waay over any other spec.

Class Changes? Lol. Easier target swap? No. Better dot spread? No. Less then four CDs to start doing damage? No. Overall quality of life improvments? NO. Let's just nerf damage and call it "Class Changes". I do not understand, why they want to keep Toxic Blast after this changes, it has no synergy with Cull anymore, just give us another weak dot to spam.

And what about PvP? Look, everybody plays lethality in pvp! Well, nope. And now this spec will be even less popular.

If you nerf spec, then give something in return. But who cares. As always.

Obviously isn't because it was several hundred dps ahead of every other class in pve, which is exactly what these changes address, its way too high sustained damage.

It probably will go negative, but one of the ways to mitigate that is to DoT adds or 2nd boss because your DoT crits build energy.

Not gonna help if there's just the one boss to hit. Anyone mathed it up yet to see if a 1:1 replacement of Quick Shot with Flurry of Bolts is enough to off-set the loss of energy on Sanguinary Shot? Still at work, I can't deep dive the changes : (

Energy for Sang is a bit much, maybe if it was 5 energy...

Looks good otherwise though

Not gonna help if there's just the one boss to hit. Anyone mathed it up yet to see if a 1:1 replacement of Quick Shot with Flurry of Bolts is enough to off-set the loss of energy on Sanguinary Shot? Still at work, I can't deep dive the changes : (

Yep, though I like concealment for single boss -- and styrak.

Energy for Sang is a bit much, maybe if it was 5 energy...

Looks good otherwise though

TBH, this was exactly my thinking (as I mentioned in my guild's Discord when talking about the changes). Having a cost on Sanguinary Shot in and of itself isn't that bad, but if we have to drop too much DPS by spamming Flurry or something, it's gonna be pretty detrimental. I just hope BW actually did testing on this, and isn't giving us an energy-negative rotation.

I just hope BW actually did testing on this, and isn't giving us an energy-negative rotation.

"testing"

This is the combat team that gave mercs 4 lives and hasn't fixed it for 8 months (among other grievous errors), safe to say they don't test these. Remember how Sabo/Engi was apparently "swimming in energy" pre-5.3? Yeah, because +3 energy in 18sec is apparently swimming in it.

Corrosive Assault no longer deals additional damage per poison effect. Instead, Corrosive Assault weapon damage now triggers additional damage from your periodic poison effects

Do you think this means forced DoT tick? If so, extra chance of gaining energy from crits.

If the extra poison ticks don't trigger toxic blast it's a 8-9% dps loss, but by basically taking TB out of the rotation, it becomes much easier to switch targets, and in PVP much harder for an opponent to cleanse at the right time. Might actually be worth it outside of dummy parsing.

Yeah, for PvP might be no problem.

Depending on how much the "additional damage from dots" would be, which have +10 crit.

And no energy problem in pvp.

Not gonna help if there's just the one boss to hit. Anyone mathed it up yet to see if a 1:1 replacement of Quick Shot with Flurry of Bolts is enough to off-set the loss of energy on Sanguinary Shot? Still at work, I can't deep dive the changes : (

Forgive me for maybe asking a noob-question, I'm relatively new to the class and it's not my main by any means. On a 2.5kk dummy-parse I'll need to use 1-2 fillers at most, the rest is refreshing dots, LS, TB, CA and Shiv, so I don't really understand what replacing 1-2 Overload Shots with basic attack every 4-5mins could possibly do dps and energy wise. So what I'm saying is: if it's enough to replace OS with basic-attack nothing will change for my rotation and they might as well leave it as it is. Am I doing something wrong? How often are you using OS/QS? Or do I just missunderstand your point?

Forgive me for maybe asking a noob-question, I'm relatively new to the class and it's not my main by any means. On a 2.5kk dummy-parse I'll need to use 1-2 fillers at most, the rest is refreshing dots, LS, TB, CA and Shiv, so I don't really understand what replacing 1-2 Overload Shots with basic attack every 4-5mins could possibly do dps and energy wise. So what I'm saying is: if it's enough to replace OS with basic-attack nothing will change for my rotation and they might as well leave it as it is. Am I doing something wrong? How often are you using OS/QS? Or do I just missunderstand your point?

i think the issue is with new changes in 5.4, with toxic blast having an energy cost energy, managment of said energy will be somehow diferent. right now i dont think TB costs anything. so we will a few more changes in the rotation in the long run 2.5K dummy parse - for sure it will have more then 1 or 2 overload shots (and remember, these also have energy cost).

we shall see what final result will be once it goes live and we can test it properly.

I'm telling you, this means forced DoT tick, which means more energy regen:

Corrosive Assault weapon damage now triggers additional damage from your periodic poison effects

You know what I want to change in this class? The range of their basic attack. Cut it down to 10 metres or even 5.

They dont need it to be 30 metres. No melee class in game has 30 metres basic attack that they can spam. Well, Vanguards have, but they dont have roll\heal\stealth, so its okey. Operatives have it all + 30 metres range on basic attack. How is it even remotely balanced?

It wouldnt affect PvE since they are melee dps. And it would make them a lot less annoying in PvP.

You know what I want to change in this class? The range of their basic attack. Cut it down to 10 metres or even 5.

 

They dont need it to be 30 metres. No melee class in game has 30 metres basic attack that they can spam. Well, Vanguards have, but they dont have roll\heal\stealth, so its okey. Operatives have it all + 30 metres range on basic attack. How is it even remotely balanced?

 

It wouldnt affect PvE since they are melee dps. And it would make them a lot less annoying in PvP.

If you're getting killed by basic attack, you've got bigger problems than Op/Scoun range...

If you're getting killed by basic attack, you've got bigger problems than Op/Scoun range...

The only thing getting killed is ability to cap anything. No one else is so damn effective at stopping cap as operative, just rolling around and basic attacking. No melee class.

It's mostly a 10m mid-range spec with three 30m abilities, and like 2-3 4m abilties. The spec is balanced range-wise -- you just don't like it

Also, lethality/ruffian ops/scoundrels suffer badly from stuns & focus. We have no extra DR utility when stunned. it's why we are difficult to play in ranked arenas.

The only thing getting killed is ability to cap anything. No one else is so damn effective at stopping cap as operative, just rolling around and basic attacking. No melee class.

You mean not including mercs, warriors and sorcs?

You mean not including mercs, warriors and sorcs?

Mercs and sorcs are not melee. Warriors have what? Saber Throw? It has a cd, IIRC.

Mercs and sorcs are not melee. Warriors have what? Saber Throw? It has a cd, IIRC.

New 5.0 Sorc/Sage utility--

Enfeebling Strike: Strike the target with your lightsaber, dealing weapon damage and immobilizing it for 3 seconds. When the immobilization effect ends, the target is slowed by 50% for 6 seconds. Replaces Saber Strike. 15 second cooldown.

It has a CD tho.

New 5.0 Sorc/Sage utility--

Enfeebling Strike: Strike the target with your lightsaber, dealing weapon damage and immobilizing it for 3 seconds. When the immobilization effect ends, the target is slowed by 50% for 6 seconds. Replaces Saber Strike. 15 second cooldown.

 

It has a CD tho.

And does it have 30 m range?

No, it's a 4m melee attack. By your rationale, ranged shouldn't have melee attacks.

What? No. I was talking about range of basic attack of one specific advance melee class. I really dont care how many melee attacks ranged classes have. I just don't see Sage or Sorc being more effective at stopping caps with that 4m attack on cd then Operative with unlimited 30m basic attack + all his other tools.