Actually tell them what they're doing wrong. Don't complain about it after you lose or something. Give them tips during the match and give them advice in a nice way.

Right after my team lost a Hutball game a person who was a sore loser randomly said, "You snipers can't DPS worth a ****," not giving us any hint beforehand that we were doing anything wrong. It would've been helpful for him to bring it up during the match so we could have actually won. And for one thing, the guy kinda pissed me off, me being a sniper and all. And I was second to first place on the leaderboard... just saying.

Give advice and tips, and most of all, be considerate. No one wants to listen to someone who yells at them and ragequits.

Only problem with your suggestion is.......while the player who thinks he knows everything is typing his from on high advice usually he isnt fighting thus handicapping us further...I cant tell you how many matches Ive lost because two or more players on my team get into a flame war in Ops chat...then once the litttle babies start pouting..our team starts losing. The simple fact is, chat just leads to flame wars and trolling it seems to be the biggest problem with the nature of anonymous chat and pug teams. I also think its an issue in guilds as well, thus the repeated offer of "drama free" play environments. The simple fact is most people who pvp think they are the man......the truth is very few players are really that good. Most losses are a team effort and most wins are a team effort. If you can see that it takes a team to win you are way ahead of those who think they know it all and spend an entire match yapping and telling the rest of the team they suck, bite etc etc. The guides are out there and what you need to play well is a mixture of team play, practice and patience. The last being what most gamers are missing in droves.

It's hard to bring up a lengthy discussion about what someone is doing wrong in a match, but you are right. I wouldn't sweat these people that run their mouths though, as usually they are just looking for excuses and can't accept the fact that they had poor performance themselves. They need a scapegoat.

This is best done after the match. There is no quick in match fix. Your best solution "in match" is to simply be encourgaging to your team or give tactical suggestions that do not "single" people out. Sportsmanship is contageous... try it.

 

If you want to improve game play. Head to corsucant departures (south air lock from fleet/ sorry imps... figure it out... lol) and start dueling with people... Just keep it friendly and keep your e-peens out of it. Back on my old server I'd always have my guildmates come and have friendly duels after each duel we'd talk about the duel and it's whys and what happeneds... KEEP IT LITE, KEEP IT FRIENDLY AND KEEP IT SHORT... This allows everyone some time to learn, and if you keep the emphasis on "LEARNING" and keep people from "BRAGGING" or in general acting like ... idiots... then everyone learns and you wind up with some serious @zz kickers. 1 duel at a time and let everyone learn from it. Folks who are interested can talk about tactics to try in matches etc... Keep everyone participating and treat everyone with respect... Win, win, win...

 

also... never surrender.

Edited July 9, 2012 by VoidJustice

...The simple fact is, chat just leads to flame wars and trolling it seems to be the biggest problem with the nature of anonymous chat and pug teams...

 

Not actually true. When you get confrontational or start making accusations, then you start an argument that isn't going to help your team.

 

That's not what is being supported here, but rather dissuaded.

 

If you can bite back the frustration and say something that might actually help you win - rather than vent frustration - you improve your chances.

 

Going off at your teammates is childish and counterproductive. Retaining self-control is harder. but more likely to succeed, both in the individual battle short-term and the longer-term where you improve the play of people you're grouped with in future.

 

I realise this can sometimes be very, very hard.

Going off at your teammates is childish and counterproductive.

 

 

Agreed with the general notion here, which is usually why I limit any WZ communication to important information. It's fairly hard to coach or discuss things in the heat of the match. When you type, you're not playing after all. If it is a small thing like "Fight on the node", then it is possible but more often than not, you can't really do too much until things have played out. The important thing is to make sure that if you follow up with someone after a match, that you be careful to do so respectfully. More often than not, tempers can flare even from honest, simple /tells and such. Some times people are reticent to take advice. Understanding it from their angle too is important. But at the end of the day, you'll hopefully be able to foster better cooperation and team play.

Edited July 9, 2012 by AlyxDinas

Also, there is usually time to type a quick sentence - when waiting to respawn, or sitting at a node.

 

After the match if I think it needs a bit more depth. I'll generally only break off to type while fighting if it's immediately urgent (I'm getting ganked by stealthers at a node; I can see my teammate happily scampering the ball towards our own line; "please kill the marked healer first"; etc), then short is of course best.

This is a nice post to see! Last week, I made a post in a similar thread about Group Finder groups, and I agree 100%. Offering a little constructive advice can go a long way, especially for new players.

 

Don't forget that, often, name-calling and being mean will just make your team lose focus, and you won't motivate anyone to do better by just calling them a bad. If you can't offer some advice, it's better to keep the rage inside!

 

Anyone who really wants to win should definitely consider offering advice or even just communicating. Something as simple as asking someone to help you line up a pass in Huttball can help even a random team perform better. Oh! And don't forget to say something nice to people who are helping or who are doing a great job - encouraging others who take the time to offer advice and help out is a great way to reinforce the behavior!

 

Nice to see someone on the bill offering an opinion on a thread like this, I don't think I've seen many of the devs/moderators express their own opinions (which is always welcomed and I'd love to see more of it).

Back to the OP: I, too, agree with the whole constructive criticism > "OMG u r teh suck" comments that usually come at the end of matches. But... sometimes it's more harfmul overall to actually stop what you're doing to type in advice mid-match while you're losing. Usually when I notice that someone has done something wrong, I'll message them after the match and refer to the situation - unfortunately, it seems that very few people wish to hear that they've done anything wrong and they insist that they are the best at their class/spec with the best possible strategy.

 

Heck, even in matches where I hear teammates cry out that "player x" or "their entire team is hacking!", I'll attempt to explain to them what's going on (i.e. their team was moving fast because they had a marauder giving predation; that vengeance juggernaut couldn't be stunned because he has immunity to it for 4s after charge; that Powertech was moving fast and immune to slows because he use hydraulic overrides; etc...) - I'll even try to explain to people after a match where I've been accused of hacking by telling them what I did (albeit, they're resolute in insisting that they're right 99% of the time in this situation, so I simply tell them to go ahead and report it if they really think I am) - now, I don't hack, and I've never been suspended, but I had a guildy get suspended for "speed-hacking" despite the fact that he wasn't (he was an AP PT, so he has hydraulic overrides, and I was on my carnage marauder, giving out improved predation like candy) - I was honestly shocked to hear that he got suspended (we get accused/reported of speed-hacking daily - and no matter how many times I/we have explained what we're doing, they simply refuse to belive us, so sure, feel free to report) - I just wish they (whomever it was that actually suspended him) would have actually bothered to notice that I had been present on my carnage marauder and he has his own speed-boost mechanic before deciding that he was doing something to voilate TOS.

 

Anyways, it took him ~18 hours of e-mail appealing, and my guildmate's suspension was lifted (and compensated 15 days of playtime).

What people sometimes forget in PvP and what often makes them rage is: Sometimes your team is just simply outmatched.

 

People get angry and start insulting eachother when their team's strategy didn't work and now they want to call out the team on how bad they are consequently causing a flame war in chat and inevitably getting nothing done.

 

What needs to happen is: People need to realize when they are outclassed or 'out-thought' and instead of complaining, try harder. Even if your match is doomed to fail just keep coming up with strategies and try your hardest.

 

What the majority of people who rage in ops chat fail to realize: PvP is just a game, you're supposed to have fun, do what is fun for you. Maybe your idea of fun is trying your hardest to win, if so do that. Maybe your idea of fun is zerging mid in Civil war or Novare Coast, if so do it, but keep your teammates in mind when you do that. Zerg mid if you have a group don't go blindly by yourself, if you do that, the result will be better, even if you fail.

 

I know this has kinda been rambling (sorry), but just keep in mind: Games are meant for fun.

As a new PvPer I definitely find the manner in which 'advice' is given makes all the difference and appreciate all the people who have taken the lead or just been good sports even when everything is going wrong. It may not be apparent right away, but there are players who will take that advice and encouragement and learn from it or take the next step to find out themselves how to better their play.

The one thing that really slays me, is when the 1-2 people guarding a vacant turret, contributing nothing but maybe killing 3 people, are silent, sitting on their tails all game, and then, when we lose, they run their yappers.

 

Oh and sorcerers who self heal via consumption spam to artificially augment their healing numbers for MVP votes.

I agree. Though, one has to be careful not to sound condescending or anything. But it's still more effective than "OMG LEARN TO PASS RETARD!" Or once some jerk was saying "man the imps pwn us hard" I told them to ignore that guy and gave a little advice, we ended up winning the voidstar. I ask the guy "who's owning who?" He was pretty quiet.

In my experience, most people are just going to accuse you of telling them how to play. Bad players are bad players and generally speaking, will always be bad players. A lot of times its just better to either leave the match and requeue or just sit at a node and get defense medals.

The other day I got popped into Voidstar after it started and someone soon started yelling at everyone because they were attacking tanks instead of healers. I noticed that none of the enemy team were marked. What I wondered is why the person yelling didn't mark the healers so that the rest of the team would have a clue who to attack instead of just trying to guess who might or might not be a healer or know how to figure it out if they haven't been playing long and aren't used to all of the class skills. This person griped nearly the whole rest of the game and called everyone something slightly derogatory at the end. At not one point were the healers ever marked.

It's true that some players will be aggressive in light of even the friendliest advice. I wouldn't let it make me give up on trying to help, though. If you're met with resistance, then fine, the player doesn't want advice, but it doesn't hurt to try. It's important to genuinely be helpful and to avoid condescending.

 

I've found that sometimes, sending a person a tell instead of calling them out in chat can be a better route (people can get defensive when pointed out in front of a group). There have been a few people I've contacted like this who are new and appreciate some friendly tips or advice. Not everyone, for sure, but there are people playing who are new to MMOs in general and may just not be aware of some of the tricks or conventions!

 

I have nothing against giving tips and advice to new players. The truth is, it's usually the same offenders in WZs that keep making mistakes like ignoring objectives and not watching the nodes. People that have at least 1000 expertise yet still don't know how to play properly. At the slightest suggestion that they might be doing something wrong, they get ultra-defensive and the discussion soon shifts to my mom.

What I now realize is that if they don't appreciate the fact that they're getting carried in the WZ, I'm better off just leaving the WZ. They're not going to get better, and I'll save myself the frustration of putting in the effort in a vain attempt to win.

 

Even as an ops leader in lowbies, I got accused of losing a Civil War single-handedly because our opening gambit did not work. These players seem to forget that they were part of the team that couldn't hold a single turret. These are toxic players who are not only bad, but also have nothing to offer other than blame and blind anger. Of course, if I didn't have a good game, I'm fine with admitting that. I just don't expect to take the blame for when I can't take all three turrets on my own.

 

But then once in a blue moon, I'll see a player ask, "I'm in recruit gear, where will I be most useful?" and I have hope again.

Its pretty hard to do this because most of the time other players find it insulting like you are some kind of elitist trying to tell them what to do..

 

also not once have I ever seen another player PM me after a game asking how to improve their dps even though I'm always on top with most MVP votes, dmg, ect

 

 

My guess is they just don't care that much and just want to have fun?

The other day I got popped into Voidstar after it started and someone soon started yelling at everyone because they were attacking tanks instead of healers. I noticed that none of the enemy team were marked. What I wondered is why the person yelling didn't mark the healers so that the rest of the team would have a clue who to attack instead of just trying to guess who might or might not be a healer or know how to figure it out if they haven't been playing long and aren't used to all of the class skills. This person griped nearly the whole rest of the game and called everyone something slightly derogatory at the end. At not one point were the healers ever marked.

 

I'm glad you brought this issue up because I think people need to be reminded that ANYONE can mark targets now. I still agree with your point that if he's the only one who knows who the healers are, he should have marked them.

 

Unfortunately, marked or not, it's almost impossible to get an average PUG to focus on even one healer. If there's more than 1 healer, it's naptime for me.

I'm glad you brought this issue up because I think people need to be reminded that ANYONE can mark targets now. I still agree with your point that if he's the only one who knows who the healers are, he should have marked them.

 

Unfortunately, marked or not, it's almost impossible to get an average PUG to focus on even one healer. If there's more than 1 healer, it's naptime for me.

 

is this true?? LMAO wow im dumb

 

I keep tripping out the last few days wondering why random dps players were marked when I only marked healers...

Many people in PuGs don't want to accept that they even have room for improvement, and those people are going to be even less likely to take advice from someone on a losing team. And anyway, it's hard to give meaningful advice during/after one match. For example, there are any number of reasons Sniper DPS could be low.

 

The best thing to do in PuGs is make everyone feel like they're awesome at the game even if they're not. If you end up losing, either keep quiet or try to put a positive spin on it. The worst thing you can do is contribute to a "this faction sucks at PvP" mentality.

I try to be helpful and always say (especially if I have at least a leveling alt of the class) to feel free to send a tell with any question if they have after the game.

 

That said there is a flip side to the coin where attempting to advise, even constructively, just gets met with bullheaded resistance-- either the "I know what I'm doing so bugger off everyone else" attitude, or the individual who feels incredibly defensive and so kind of lashes out to cover the areas where he/she knows they are lacking.

Many people in PuGs don't want to accept that they even have room for improvement, and those people are going to be even less likely to take advice from someone on a losing team. And anyway, it's hard to give meaningful advice during/after one match. For example, there are any number of reasons Sniper DPS could be low.

 

The best thing to do in PuGs is make everyone feel like they're awesome at the game even if they're not. If you end up losing, either keep quiet or try to put a positive spin on it. The worst thing you can do is contribute to a "this faction sucks at PvP" mentality.

 

It's not the faction, it's the player. And no, I'm not going to positively reward players who suck. That would make things worse.

Do you give a puppy a treat when it pees inside the house? People need to grow up and accept the "harsh realities" of life (in SWTOR). Don't need to call anyone an idiot, just state what they did wrong in the hopes that they adjust.

 

On the other hand, I'm more than willing to accept that I have room for improvement (and I consider myself to be a pretty decent player). But then again, this could be that I understand the game on a deeper level other than "red name, must kill!"

 

Ars Technica: Revisiting why incompetents think they're awesome

so how do you talk to someone that loses a node in alderaan, 30 seconds after you say "call out all incs" ?

A lot of people in WZs just don't want to be better players. Many get offended when you tell them they're doing something wrong and tell them specifically what it is.

is this true?? LMAO wow im dumb

 

I keep tripping out the last few days wondering why random dps players were marked when I only marked healers...

 

I think this happened to me a couple nights ago. I saw a marked target and was attacking it thinking she was one of the healers, but then it slowly dawned on me as I recognized some of the abilities she was using that she was a dps assassin. Not sure why she was marked.