Good morning helpful Ops'ers!

Our progression team has successfully cleared Toth/Zorn in EC HM but it was tough! We got to Firebrand/Stormcaller and maybe it was because it was 1am, we wiped a few times and called it. The biggest issue I remember is the mDPS on SC intercepted the DD but they instantly died even if they hauled jets away from the tank and main gun.

Are there any updated guides? Most of the ones I find don't seem quite right or a few posts down people blast em saying "don't use this guide, its PTS info, outdated, etc".

I appreciate any advice/guidance! We want to clear this prior to patch 2.0 as a matter of pride, we don't want the easy way out (i.e. being level 55 and clearing the lower level Ops).

Need a little bit more about how you handled double destruction and just, generally, where everyone in the raid was positioned. DD shouldn't one shot the DPS, but I'm confused by the idea that they were running away. Were you getting 1 DD? Or 2? Which side had the healer on the ground?

Edit: Wait, just re-read this. Are you saying the dps ran to the (player) tank to get DD instead of the other way around? That's a no-no. Both of these (enemy) tanks do big damage directly in "front" of the turret (that is, the side that faces wall by the entrance, not necessarily the direction the turret is facing at all times). No DPS or healer should ever cross the plane in front of S & F's "noses." Rather, the player tank wants to drag DD over to the dps and it'll get intercepted that way. The player tank can absorb a hit from the frontal attack much more safely than the dps will.

Keep in mind that I was tanking Firebrand so this is just based on what I heard. That makes sense... maybe it was ONE DPS that took both hits of DD and the second DPS wasn't in front enough?

Our strat was "The two mDPS need to stand in front of the tank when it channels DD then move back when it is over" so my guess is one wasn't in front enough and/or moved away too quickly? That would explain it. (and as a note: the two melee DPS were on the side of Stormcaller, they moved between the gun and the tank we had on SC, then moved back into their dps position. But what I was told was that the dps moved, SC did DD, and they were one-shotted/killed before they made it back to their dps positions).

It just seemed that we went down VERY quickly.

Also, when Firebrand starts channeling the armor debuff, I read that the Stormcaller tank can then taunt Firebrand and the channel will then hit him, yes? I just wanted some clarification on that so that we don't need to tank swap if that is the case.

If your melee are on the ball, they can move in front and move back. It doesn't matter if the dps moves or the tank moves, the dps just can't be in front of the boss when he uses his next attack. Have whoever is less likely to screw up move, either the tank or the two dps (or a dps and a healer).

Depending on the timing of the phases, you could be seeing a couple problems. First, if your dps are slow moving away they could be getting oneshot by the boss' cleave. Second, if you're hitting the second DD, SC will begin dropping bubbles on the tank right after the DD cast. If the DPS get caught in those, they'll drop pretty fast. The last thing I'm thinking could be happening is, if your SC tank is taunting FB for the incinerate cast, if the FB tank is slow taking him back FB could be attacking the SC tank. FB's attack is a large frontal cone, so this attack would hit the dps. If they were already down a bit from DD damage, this could finish them off.

If only one dps is moving in front and the other is slow, the tank will take the other stack of the debuff, so that's not likely your problem. You'll never have a dps taking two stacks of DD unless they pulled aggro and noone is in front of them.

Ignore my previous post. I just realized that it wouldn't be possible for only one person to take both DDs even if only two people are in front of his turrets and one is standing in front of the other.

Like others have said, your DPS aren't moving back quick enough or they are not moving from enough away from the cleave.

Edit: Wait, just re-read this. Are you saying the dps ran to the (player) tank to get DD instead of the other way around? That's a no-no. Both of these (enemy) tanks do big damage directly in "front" of the turret (that is, the side that faces wall by the entrance, not necessarily the direction the turret is facing at all times). No DPS or healer should ever cross the plane in front of S & F's "noses." Rather, the player tank wants to drag DD over to the dps and it'll get intercepted that way. The player tank can absorb a hit from the frontal attack much more safely than the dps will.

This is misinformation. The cleaves are directed towards the person currently holding aggro on the boss, regardless of where he stands, which becomes very obvious if a DPS pulls aggro at any point - you'll notice that ALL the players standing on that side of the tank will start taking damage due to it rather than just 1.

Both having the tank move behind the DPS and having the DPS move in front of the tank are perfectly viable tactics, and it's up to you which you use - however, if the DPS classes in question have channeled abilities and/or the players don't have their hotkeys set up well enough to be able to hit them perfectly even while moving you loose DPS by having the DPS move to the tank. If you have enrage issues and/or get double DDs, have the tank move to the DPS instead.