Warzones are 8v8. Arguments based around 1v1s are moot.

 

Full 8v8's almost never happen, even in Darkstar and Huttball - put all 8 of your team in one place in any WZ and see how that works out for ya.

 

1v1's that determine ownership/completion of an objective happen all the time in WZ's.

A single defender that litterally requires more than one attacker to dispatch is a design flaw.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Altruismo

Hai, buddy. Saw you in a lot of WZs today. You were 3 shotting people it seems.

 

 

Good times.

 

Wasn't really 3 shotting, but it's around 3 or 4 rounds that it takes to wreck someone.

Never figured out why people think healers should be immune to dying unless its 3v1. To use the popular argument: game isn't balanced around 1on1. Bring 1-2 extras if you don't want to die to a dps.

 

Would also love to see a SS of a marauder doing 9k as anni spec vs BM gear, since the highest damage you will see with annihilate is ~5k vs undergeared light armor.

Never figured out why people think healers should be immune to dying unless its 3v1. To use the popular argument: game isn't balanced around 1on1. Bring 1-2 extras if you don't want to die to a dps.

 

Exactly, none of this "The devs should be making it completely impossible for 1 DPS to kill me when I'm by myself!!" garbage.

Exactly, none of this "The devs should be making it completely impossible for 1 DPS to kill me when I'm by myself!!" garbage.

 

No one competent is saying that.

 

We're saying, which is the complete truth, that healing has become useless in a team composition now. With the amount of burst happening, you are more of an asset as a DPS than a healer.

 

Healers have become a waste of space in PvP.

I never played a healer and I never could. That being said, I think people are being a little melo-dramatic like usual. You claim healing was nerfed because of bads crying on forums, yet you cry on forums that heals were nerfed. Are you now the bads who cry for healer buffs when they don't need them?

 

Granted, I haven't played much level 50 pvp today. I play a Jugg and all I noticed was that I now do **** damage in rage spec AND I die very fast without blade ward (the healing CD they added proved to be useless). Btu I digress.

 

Anyways, If they should do anything, it's probably not buff passive healing itself by X% and make healers able to keep someone up without doing anything other than spamming the same button for a few seconds (I'm talking more than 1 person, not a dps killing another dps with a healer on him, thus effectively 1v2ing them). As a matter of fact, in my opinion, healers should die of attrition if they are pressured and interrupted constantly (tanking 2 players or more is ridiculous). I can't testify for that person who said he had a 9k crit (it seems so exagerated, it's like the 80k+ frostbolts you hear people crying about on the WoW forums)

 

I think survival should be favored with cooldowns, both from healers AND from damage dealers. Take the example of Marauders, they have some pretty good defensive cooldown to help mitigate damage. Blade Ward, Obfuscate, Vanish, 99% dmg reduction, etc. This kind of survival should be encouraged and spread among more classes. I'm not saying everyone should have a vanish or a "you can't touch me" cooldown.

 

Cooldown for healers could either be about mitigating damage or healing more/faster, etc. Once you're out of cooldowns, hope someone in your PUG can peel for you.

 

Those are my 2 cents.

No one competent is saying that.

 

We're saying, which is the complete truth, that healing has become useless in a team composition now. With the amount of burst happening, you are more of an asset as a DPS than a healer.

 

Healers have become a waste of space in PvP.

 

I'm still seeing 500k+ healing numbers being posted, and I'm still seeing teams with healers absolutely crush teams with no healers.

 

Your mileage has obviously varied??

 

And to clarify, the only reason I've been pushing my particular line of argument in this thread is because of the guy who did say that he believes 1DPS should not be able to kill 1 healer.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that there are reasonable people in this thread who do not think that way, who also think that the nerfs to healing were too heavy-handed.

I'm still seeing 500k+ healing numbers being posted, and I'm still seeing teams with healers absolutely crush teams with no healers.

 

And how many of those 500k+ healers have come out as PuG-players against PuG-players? Most of those screenshots are from rather ineffective healing (padding the numbers, as they say), not being interrupted and not being focussed down at all.

 

Numbers mean nothing without context, sadly enough.

Essentially what we are seeing is that without full BM gear people are getting crushed. I know from playing with the same guys a lot, guys who weren't yet BM or just got BM, namely running around today in champ/cent gear, are getting crushed. Seriously, the exp difference between BM and the lower tiers is HUGE now. Even the blue entry gear has more exp than old champ gear.

 

Give it a week or two and let people gear. I heal (scoundrel), get targeted as soon as I break stealth(all the imps pretty much know I heal now), and I still have good survivability because I had full BM coming into the patch. People wearing old tiers or trying to get stat boosts with a couple pieces of rakata are going to die, and die a lot.

If you think healing is "useless" try bringing 8 DPS to a Huttball game... you won't get very far against a team with 2 dedicated healers.

If you think healing is "useless" try bringing 8 DPS to a Huttball game... you won't get very far against a team with 2 dedicated healers.

 

Funny joke .

Essentially what we are seeing is that without full BM gear people are getting crushed. I know from playing with the same guys a lot, guys who weren't yet BM or just got BM, namely running around today in champ/cent gear, are getting crushed. Seriously, the exp difference between BM and the lower tiers is HUGE now. Even the blue entry gear has more exp than old champ gear.

 

Give it a week or two and let people gear. I heal (scoundrel), get targeted as soon as I break stealth(all the imps pretty much know I heal now), and I still have good survivability because I had full BM coming into the patch. People wearing old tiers or trying to get stat boosts with a couple pieces of rakata are going to die, and die a lot.

 

This is partly at fault. Also, some of it is people trying new specs. Had a sorc healer I kept playing against today start sending tells/whines about how marauders were op and sorc healers needed huge survivability buffs.

 

Of course he did have 10617 health.

Funny joke .

 

Pot, kettle, black. Google it.

Pot, kettle, black. Google it.

 

I'm immune to your white knight charms.

The main problem imo is that healing casts are too easy to interrupt. Oh and some specs are doing too much DPS atm, but fix that and the PvP will be near perfect.

And how many of those 500k+ healers have come out as PuG-players against PuG-players? Most of those screenshots are from rather ineffective healing (padding the numbers, as they say), not being interrupted and not being focussed down at all.

 

Numbers mean nothing without context, sadly enough.

 

This, this, and this. Without question my best heals came in matches where I was mostly left alone but on my server that only happens occasionally. Healers are extremely focused over here. Only teams of new 50s don't target the healers.

 

I'm off work today and played all day with my guild. We actually played at least 30 games and my max heal was a 500k in Voidstar this morning. I was still focused but it wasn't the zerg I normally deal with. Yesterday, however, 500k was nothing in Voidstar, and to many healers over here as well. I'm down about 15-20%. Other healers on my server are down far more than that and have gone DPS.

So not only do we have crappy healing, we now have a bunch of healers quitting as well.

 

Seriously Bioware, you can't balance the game around nubs who thought it was fine for a single DPS to be able to kill a Healer.

 

Now Healing is pretty much useless, as you get 2 competent DPS on ya, not even a few healers on that target can keep him up.

 

I don't really care about this discussion, but I just wanted to chime in that max rank Wardens in Rift were ACTUALLY immortal. So it doesn't really apply to compare the two.

I don't really care about this discussion, but I just wanted to chime in that max rank Wardens in Rift were ACTUALLY immortal. So it doesn't really apply to compare the two.

 

Only they weren't, based on the fact our team wrecked the hell out of other high Rank teams that included Wardens, You just couldn't be a Tard Muffin and split assist.

 

Hell I could damn near kill them solo as a Last Gasp Necro.

The problem isn't that 1 healer can't beat 1 DPS. The problem is that 1 DPS can easily shut down a healer. 1 semi-competent player has enough interrupts to keep the healer from getting any significant heals off. Couple that with the buff to DPS and nerf to healing, and you get a lopsided fight any time a DPS just tries to sit on a healer. In organized PvP, the healer will always be the primary target. They just made it that much easier to take him down. If 1 DPS > 1 Healer, why bother to bringing them?

Hate to tell you but nothing has changed. The top Imp teams I play against on my server have two well-geared healers and they are still unkillable. They completely decimated every team I was on tonight.

The problem isn't that 1 healer can't beat 1 DPS. The problem is that 1 DPS can easily shut down a healer. 1 semi-competent player has enough interrupts to keep the healer from getting any significant heals off. Couple that with the buff to DPS and nerf to healing, and you get a lopsided fight any time a DPS just tries to sit on a healer. In organized PvP, the healer will always be the primary target. They just made it that much easier to take him down. If 1 DPS > 1 Healer, why bother to bringing them?

 

Completely false, sorcerers have enough insta-cast heals and aoe heals to laugh off a player interrupting them. It's quite comical actually. They don't even bother attacking me when I'm interrupting them, they just use their quick heals and then force run away from me when they get tired of it.

So not only do we have crappy healing, we now have a bunch of healers quitting as well.

 

Seriously Bioware, you can't balance the game around nubs who thought it was fine for a single DPS to be able to kill a Healer.

 

Now Healing is pretty much useless, as you get 2 competent DPS on ya, not even a few healers on that target can keep him up.

 

That's a matter of skill, LOS/ correctly using slows and other cc's/ FAKE CASTING, 99% of the healer do not even do this.

 

I am a healer and have no issues against 2-3 war hero marauders, without guard. It's all about cc, stuns, slows and let them interrupt what you want them to interrupt (cast a dmg spell, most of them will even interrupt that, so you are free to cast your healing spell without the risk of being interrupted)

 

Whenever I am doing pvp now, I feel like Benny Hill, try to catch me...

For those of you younger people, google it...

This, this, and this. Without question my best heals came in matches where I was mostly left alone but on my server that only happens occasionally. Healers are extremely focused over here. Only teams of new 50s don't target the healers.

 

I'm off work today and played all day with my guild. We actually played at least 30 games and my max heal was a 500k in Voidstar this morning. I was still focused but it wasn't the zerg I normally deal with. Yesterday, however, 500k was nothing in Voidstar, and to many healers over here as well. I'm down about 15-20%. Other healers on my server are down far more than that and have gone DPS.

 

I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed not having to chase you around for 3 minutes trying to dip you below 20% health long enough to execute. However, you guys still have too many healers. See if you can't convince a few more of them to switch.

Completely false, sorcerers have enough insta-cast heals and aoe heals to laugh off a player interrupting them. It's quite comical actually. They don't even bother attacking me when I'm interrupting them, they just use their quick heals and then force run away from me when they get tired of it.

 

 

Sorcs have one insta heal and it's a heal over time. The aoe has a long enough cast time that if you were at all competent you'd interrupt and even if you didn't you should be able to comfortably outdps it. Bottom line if you're can't easily bring down a healer right now it's a gear or skill issue.

With respect to RIFT, that healing cleric who soloed 8 guys AT ONCE & put it on youtube & in the forums is who you want to blame. Or you could just admit that healing was very OP in that game. I have no complaints about healing here, even pre-nerf.

 

Edit: Ah - here's the vid - lest we forget.

Round about a minute & 1/2 mark. Edited April 13, 2012 by GRINnBARRETT