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no more black hole comms in story EC?


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"Added it"? Isn't this the weekly quest that if you progressed a certain distance in the operation (be it story mode, hard more, or nightmare mode) you would complete the quest and get BH comms?

 

If so, that's always been there so there was nothing to add. The only thing different in 1.4 is you made it easier to complete by making it the Tanks instead of the Colonel to complete the quest and through in some Daily comms I think. Still, you didn't add BM comms as a reward, you may have just changed the qty.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

It use the BE the forth boss on any mode for 6 coms i think so were was it added like youn said , hes mistaken in saying that, it shows he acttly knows nothing about the game we thought he did and was prolly to told to say that not thinking ......

Edited by moonshoter
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I asked Ahmad Zabarah (a Senior Designer) to share some more details about this change. The reason we removed the Commendations from Story Mode is that it is our goal to separate Story Mode Operations from Operation progression going forwards. In the previous setup, Story Mode was the best way to farm Black Hole Commendations, which wasn't our intent for the different difficultly modes. Going forward, Hard Mode and Nightmare mode will be the source of progression in Operations. We did, however, add Black Hole Commendations to the weekly Explosive Conflict mission, so you can also obtain the Commendations that way.

 

That makes no sense since story mode was the stepping stone players needed to do to progress to the hard modes and nightmares. Right now our guilds still haven't done hardmode EC and doing storymode was how we were preparing for that but now we barely get anything.

 

This is just a horrible change and it's going to lock out players eventually when story mode difficulties continue to rise.

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But the gear progression just makes no sense to me. And with this change, makes even less sense.

 

Actually, the gear progression is fine. Get to Lvl 50, do HM FP's and get Columi gear. Do HM EV/KP and get Rakata gear or do SM TFB and SM EC to get Rakata gear. Then do HM EC and HM TFB. The BH comms you can collect from dailies and weeklies should just be incentive to put more hours into this game or to also help you sort of gear past the benchmark for certain bosses.

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You're missing the point and not understanding the reasoning they keep saying as to why they are separating SM from HM/NiM.

 

I don't disagree that is what they are 'saying'. I'm merely saying that if they really wanted to separate them they would have them share a lockout and you could do A (story time) or B (progression time). Perhaps a better option is to just remove the loot, lockout, and further reduce the difficulty of story time so that people who want to expericent the story can do that.

 

Back in the old days of raiding there wasn't an easy and a hard mode. There was just one mode, and it was challenging. In fact, in Vanilla WoW before it's first expansion there was a raid called Naxxramus. There was a large % of the population very upset that they couldn't complete the raid (we'll call them The Casuals). So those who did complete it or were trying to and accepted the way things were (we'll call them The Hardcore) told The Casuals that they had to work at it. "If you wanted to see the ending to the game you had to master the levels to it."

 

I remember them well and I think the rumblings of "I can't do naxx?" were very minimal. It was understood that Naxx was a tough place to be and 40 people geared and attuned people were hard to find. I think Blizz said 7% of people saw it the first time around which is why the content was recycled.

 

The common response from The Casuals was, "I pay the same amount of money as The Hardcore. It's not fair I don't get to see all the content! I'm not after the loot, but I deserve to see all of this work that Blizzard employees are putting into stuff that I pay for."

 

And that's where we are today. Now The Casuals can experience all of that wonderful content. If you're still complaining, then it's about the loot. If you want the loot, then rise to the challenge and/or put the work in.

 

I think that the casuals would then side with my above idea and i think that should satisfy both them and the 'hardcore' that are left in the game. Furthermore I think that following the 'story time' model, TFB (as well as EC) should be accessable on the same difficulty level as EV/KP in that it requires only Tionese to complete and drops Columi. I mean if we are going to say these people are just here for the 'story' then why are we gating their content based on gear anyway?

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I find it funny that no one gets the big picture:

- Story mode is to experience the story and taste the content.

- Hard mode is for the actual challenge of raiding.

 

You don't need fantastic gear to experience the story. If you want to get the best gear, then set foot in the hardest content. Or grind out the extra hours by doing daily HM's every day and the weekly missions to get your BH year. You can still make over 50 BH comms a week w/out setting foot in a HM if you really want to gear progress. But running around in SM EC where it just got nerfed even more-so to spend 1.5-2 hrs a week to add an extra 20 BH comms was just overkill. Grinding 7 HM FP's a week takes more work than 1 SM EC and more dedication to the time.

 

If you really care about gear progression, but can't handle HM Ops yet, then here's how you can progress:

Lvl 50

Regular D7, Battle of Ilum, False Emperor - for better gear

SM EV, SM KP, HM FP's, Dailies, Buy mods and such from AH with Daily Quest Credits

SM EC, HM EV, HM KP, SM TFB

HM EC

HM TFB

 

There are several ways to get Dread Gear w/out even setting foot in HM TFB. You can get credits and wait for them to sell on the AH? Don't like the price? Then do the hardest content. It's that simple. You can either put in more effort or more time to get Dread Gear. And let's not forget that Dread Gear isn't even fantastic. The itemizations are terrible so buying the pieces off the AH may be smarter than running HM TFB over and over (like Marauders who need 10 freakin' belts just to get BiS for their Mod - good job FailWare!)

 

Still, for people who are complaining about the loss of BH comms from easy-mode EC there's still plenty of ways to obtain BH comms. In the end, SM EC isn't even half of the BH comms you can earn in a week. This game and every other MMO is already going the way of catering to the casual. Just imagine playing 8 years ago in WoW when there wasn't an easy-mode of raids and the only way to get the best loot was to kill bosses in those raids... bosses that weren't killed the first night they were released to the public, but instead took months of time. Imagine that!

 

Yeah, those days are gone, and this is what we have now. I'm just trying to give those people crying some perspective on the matter.

 

I find it funny that I do get what you are saying, but you are failing to realize you can't run EC or TFB story mode in columi which defeats the purpose of saying it is only for content and story. You have to have Rakata plus to do either of those. No longer makes your statements true when put under an honest light.

 

EC SM should provide bh comms to provide you a way to run EC HM, or EV or KP HM should provide BH comms to run EC HM

 

Right now, neither of that happens, so progression is broken. I find it funny that you made an entire post and didnt realize this. So now that we are all laughing can we get back on topic on how progression is currently broken and we would like someone from Bioware to explain what they believe the current progression is?

 

Doing dailies for 3 months to get black hole gear to progress in raids is not progression.

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Care to go into more detail?

 

The main concern would be that players could gear up with Blackhole faster. Personally, I don't see that as problem, but some people have issues with that.

 

I can't speak for them, and I wouldnt have been so blunt, but I'll elaborate why I feel it is the wrong direction.

 

 

More BH for doing a single act isnt the solution, we already get bh from hm ec from the bosses. Spreading out the amount of work to be done for BH is the solution which is why tier 2 ops story modes should drop a small amount of black hole comms to help progress to actually doing tier 2 hard modes.

 

 

That way you have the ability to get more for doing more work, not get more for doing less work.

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I find it funny that I do get what you are saying, but you are failing to realize you can't run EC or TFB story mode in columi which defeats the purpose of saying it is only for content and story. You have to have Rakata plus to do either of those. No longer makes your statements true when put under an honest light.
Didn't BW say you were supposed to be able to complete TFB and EC in Columi level gear? If they believe that then you're wrong and my statement stands true.

 

EC SM should provide bh comms to provide you a way to run EC HM, or EV or KP HM should provide BH comms to run EC HM
You're supposed to be able to beat EC HM while wearing Rakata gear. Guilds were doing it in full Rakata. It wasn't balanced for wearing full BH gear that was fully augmented and EC HM has gotten easier since it was first released. So getting bh comms from SM is over-gearing for the HM you are trying to do.

 

...so progression is broken. I find it funny that you made an entire post and didnt realize this. So now that we are all laughing can we get back on topic on how progression is currently broken and we would like someone from Bioware to explain what they believe the current progression is?
Once again, you're wrong. You should't need to do Story Modes to complete Hard Modes. That's not how they have been stating progression has to be. You can do HM FP's to get gear (Columi) for HM EV/KP or SM EC/TFB (which require Rakata). You can then get gear from those (Rakata) to complete HM EC/TFB (BH, Campaign, and Dread Guard).

 

Doing dailies for 3 months to get black hole gear to progress in raids is not progression.
Hate to break it to you, but for BiS progression people would have to run HM TFB for a few months just to farm all the multiple tokens they'll need to BiS their gear so it's the same thing. And if you're just talking about non-mod-switched BH gear, that's something like 440 BH Comms (give or take a few). If you did every daily/weekly outside of HM EC and HM TFB, you get something like 55 comms a week? That's 8 weeks, which is just shy of 2 months. And 2 months of grinding to get gear is about the average for what raiders would do (if not longer).

 

Please review what I said and put some thought into your response because your post was basically wrong. I do understand the side point people are making in that why should any of the story modes have gated content. But we seem to accept that you need some gear when hitting 50 before you should do SM EV/KP so why shouldn't there be some gear between SM EV/KP and SM EC/TFB? If not, then you might as well allow a character when he/she turns 50 to zone into some version of each operation and solo all the content by giving them godmode with no gear dropping just so they can see all the content. But are any of you really asking for that? I believe BW is just trying to make an easier version of the carrot-stick for those that still want to hop on the ol' hamster wheel but not have to try as hard.

 

Also...

More BH for doing a single act isnt the solution, we already get bh from hm ec from the bosses. Spreading out the amount of work to be done for BH is the solution which is why tier 2 ops story modes should drop a small amount of black hole comms to help progress to actually doing tier 2 hard modes.

 

That way you have the ability to get more for doing more work, not get more for doing less work.

They're trying to make it that you don't have to do any SM Operations to progress to Hardmode. Basically, for those who want to do HM's they shouldn't have to do both SM and HM for the fastest gear progression. And for those that don't like the challenge of HM's but want to be able to kill Big Bosses they can do so w/out ever having to step in a Hardmore. Got it? Edited by Lostpenguins
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Didn't BW say you were supposed to be able to complete TFB and EC in Columi level gear? If they believe that then you're wrong and my statement stands true.

 

Not anywhere I saw. And I've ran TFB SM, and theres no way a full un modded no augmented columi group is going to clear that. Would love to see that fraps video. The last boss is way too healer intesive to keep people up in just columi

 

You're supposed to be able to beat EC HM while wearing Rakata gear. Guilds were doing it in full Rakata. It wasn't balanced for wearing full BH gear that was fully augmented and EC HM has gotten easier since it was first released. So getting bh comms from SM is over-gearing for the HM you are trying to do.

 

No, you arent, you are supposed to access it in Rakata and progress getting the BH/Campaign gear until you have enough gear to down Kephess. That is how progression works. Guilds weren't doing it in full Rakata. Please show me proof of the statement. Guilds don't even take new people into this without the members having at least half 146 gear already. You make a statement, I raid weekly and I know what our guild brings through. We have had EC HM on farm for a while.

 

Once again, you're wrong. You should't need to do Story Modes to complete Hard Modes. That's not how they have been stating progression has to be. You can do HM FP's to get gear (Columi) for HM EV/KP or SM EC/TFB (which require Rakata). You can then get gear from those (Rakata) to complete HM EC/TFB (BH, Campaign, and Dread Guard).

 

How do you get gear for the first hard mode then? Please explain. Previously it was get the gear from the story modes and progress into hard modes. Now that progression has been removed. Please explain with that progression gone how it is meant to be done? K thanks.

 

Hate to break it to you, but for BiS progression people would have to run HM TFB for a few months just to farm all the multiple tokens they'll need to BiS their gear so it's the same thing. And if you're just talking about non-mod-switched BH gear, that's something like 440 BH Comms (give or take a few). If you did every daily/weekly outside of HM EC and HM TFB, you get something like 55 comms a week? That's 8 weeks, which is just shy of 2 months. And 2 months of grinding to get gear is about the average for what raiders would do (if not longer).

 

True, BiS people would. You don't need BiS to complete the content. 55 coms a week is a piece of bh gear a week Plus if you are lucky/good enough to get the gear drops. 12 items at 35-60 coms each. With the progression removed will take much longer than 2 months. And NO ONE outside of the hardest of gamers are going to run EVERY daily and EVERY weekly. So, even if your figures are right, that is someone who does nothing but plays swtor every day for about 4-8 hours a day. Yeah, that is feasible.

 

Please review what I said and put some thought into your response because your post was basically wrong. I do understand the side point people are making in that why should any of the story modes have gated content. But we seem to accept that you need some gear when hitting 50 before you should do SM EV/KP so why shouldn't there be some gear between SM EV/KP and SM EC/TFB? If not, then you might as well allow a character when he/she turns 50 to zone into some version of each operation and solo all the content by giving them godmode with no gear dropping just so they can see all the content. But are any of you really asking for that? I believe BW is just trying to make an easier version of the carrot-stick for those that still want to hop on the ol' hamster wheel but not have to try as hard.

 

Story modes are gated, you've provided no proof that TFB is can be downed in un modded columi, and no one has posted it. It is at minimum a mix of Rakta, with a smattering of columi. I've been in 2 runs that had issues bringing down the final boss in almost full campaign. LoL columi. Once the mechanics were worked out it was done, but in full campaign it should have just been a face roll.

 

Also...

They're trying to make it that you don't have to do any SM Operations to progress to Hardmode. Basically, for those who want to do HM's they shouldn't have to do both SM and HM for the fastest gear progression. And for those that don't like the challenge of HM's but want to be able to kill Big Bosses they can do so w/out ever having to step in a Hardmore. Got it?

 

So, if your last statement is spot on. What is the progression to be able to raid? I mean in hard modes? From every thing you said? Dailies. No thank you. I want to raid to progress. Not run dailies until I can get into hard modes. That isnt progression, it is a growth stunt to make you grind out dailies.

Edited by yoshua
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Not anywhere I saw. And I've ran TFB SM, and theres no way a full un modded no augmented columi group is going to clear that. Would love to see that fraps video. The last boss is way too healer intesive to keep people up in just columi

 

For what it is worth I believe this is the post being referenced, but that doesn't make you wrong it just means this is what the devs have said they intend, be that the reality or not.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5155548&postcount=7

I asked Jesse Sky (Lead Flashpoints and Operations Designer) about when players can expect to see Terror from Beyond and Explosive Conflict in the Group Finder. He said it's definitely something we're planning to do, but had some information about why they aren't in quite yet:

 

Story Mode Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond are balanced for players in Columi gear, but we currently have no way to enforce or communicate the recommended power level. This could cause frustration for players who are undergeared, and would bog down the process of getting into the content, which is contrary to the purpose of the tool. Introducing either Op into the Group Finder would also mean rotating out Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace, so we want to make sure the timing and the rewards are right before we do this.

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Another poor decision from EA. Who cares if you get some BH comms for doing SM EC or SM TFB. Is it really hurting anyone to have more geared players available to help with harder content? Columi should be dropped or given away for free like Recruit because it is just as helpful in PVE as recruit is in PVP. Let the bosses in EC/TFB drop 2 BH comms each. You CAN'T farm something that you're only able to do one time a week. Did bioware remove the lockout from this and I didn't know about it?

 

HEY BIOWARE! Doubt you're listening.. but way to give the players what they want again.. /sarcasm

 

At this rate I see no point in doing EC or TFB story mode.. and good luck clearing hardmode in just rakata. Better hope everyone is an allstar at their class.

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For what it is worth I believe this is the post being referenced, but that doesn't make you wrong it just means this is what the devs have said they intend, be that the reality or not.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5155548&postcount=7

 

Thanks.

 

I still stand by the last fight is way too healer intensive for columi, would love to see a fraps vid of a group in full columi, un modded do it, but from the 2 runs I had at it? lol no.

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Not anywhere I saw. And I've ran TFB SM, and theres no way a full un modded no augmented columi group is going to clear that. Would love to see that fraps video. The last boss is way too healer intesive to keep people up in just columi

We do have plans to make more Operations available in the group finder in the future, but (as others have mentioned) we do want to avoid sending groups into content that might be too challenging (due to the players being undergeared or less organized). This recent post in response to whether Terror from Beyond would be in the Group Finder has some relevant info:

Quote:

Story Mode Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond are balanced for players in Columi gear, but we currently have no way to enforce or communicate the recommended power level. This could cause frustration for players who are undergeared, and would bog down the process of getting into the content, which is contrary to the purpose of the tool. Introducing either Op into the Group Finder would also mean rotating out Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace, so we want to make sure the timing and the rewards are right before we do this.

 

No, you arent, you are supposed to access it in Rakata and progress getting the BH/Campaign gear until you have enough gear to down Kephess. That is how progression works. Guilds weren't doing it in full Rakata. Please show me proof of the statement. Guilds don't even take new people into this without the members having at least half 146 gear already. You make a statement, I raid weekly and I know what our guild brings through. We have had EC HM on farm for a while.
Guild on my old server downed Kephess on HM the first week the instance came out. That's them doing in in full Rakata. They all unsubbed the following week because they thought it was too easy (the content). So, you're wrong.

 

I agree in your idea of progression. I believe that to be the final boss of a raid, or the final few, you should have to get the gear from the earlier bosses, but that's not how SWTOR works. You can completely clear a HM operation w/out getting a single piece of loot.

 

How do you get gear for the first hard mode then? Please explain. Previously it was get the gear from the story modes and progress into hard modes. Now that progression has been removed. Please explain with that progression gone how it is meant to be done? K thanks.
No, you never HAD to do story modes to get the gear to do HM's. You could have done HM Flashpoints, got all of your Columi there, and then gone straight into HM EV/KP to get Rakata. I'm sorry, but do you think about what your'e saying because I can't believe you completely miss that. SM EV/KP drop the exact same gear minus weapons, that you can get from HM FP's. That's how you can progress w/out doing story modes.

 

True, BiS people would. You don't need BiS to complete the content. 55 coms a week is a piece of bh gear a week Plus if you are lucky/good enough to get the gear drops. 12 items at 35-60 coms each. With the progression removed will take much longer than 2 months. And NO ONE outside of the hardest of gamers are going to run EVERY daily and EVERY weekly. So, even if your figures are right, that is someone who does nothing but plays swtor every day for about 4-8 hours a day. Yeah, that is feasible.
What? What are you talking about? It's 2 months for Earpiece, Implantsx2, Bracers, Belt, Headpiece, Chest, Gloves, Pants, and Boots. Are you talking about relics too? You do know those relics are pretty much trash right?

 

Here's the other thing though, you complain that you can't gear from SM's for BH gear, but you do realize that you can do HM EC and HM TFB for the gear, or do all the dailies and weeklys. Two viable ways that you can do both or only one, and yet you keep complaining that you can't do super-easy-mode SM EC that takes 1.5 hours in a pug group. Really?

 

Plus "4-8 hours a day"? Lol. HM FP's take anywhere from 30 minutes (HM BT) to maybe an hour. Where's the other 3-7 hours? Rofl.

 

Story modes are gated, you've provided no proof that TFB is can be downed in un modded columi, and no one has posted it. It is at minimum a mix of Rakta, with a smattering of columi.
I just proved it with a developer's post. I think I win on this one. Plus, I like how you throw in "un modded Columi". You don't mod gear from anything operation-related. So you could mod all of your columi gear with MK-6 items to help you out. Choosing not to is your problem, not the games.

 

So, if your last statement is spot on. What is the progression to be able to raid? I mean in hard modes? From every thing you said? Dailies. No thank you. I want to raid to progress. Not run dailies until I can get into hard modes. That isnt progression, it is a growth stunt to make you grind out dailies.
Let me explain it again:

1) Get to lvl 50

2) Do regular lvl 50 FP's to get some better than starting lvl 50 gear

3) Do HM FP's to get Columi gear. You don't want to do HM FP's, then do SM EV/KP to get Columi,

4) Do HM EV/KP to get Rakata. Or you can do SM EC/TFB (Please notice in the patch 1.4 notes that SM EC was really nerfed).

5) Do HM EC/TFB.

 

So, you can get from 1 --> 5 without doing a single story mode. Got it?

Edited by Lostpenguins
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Actually, the gear progression is fine. Get to Lvl 50, do HM FP's and get Columi gear. Do HM EV/KP and get Rakata gear or do SM TFB and SM EC to get Rakata gear.

 

I understand what you're saying, but understand that HM EV/KP are much easier than EC or TFB in that regard, and to not be able to even inch your way slightly closer to better gear after doing the harder runs seems a bit silly.

 

I'm not advocating for free give-aways for the top notch gear, but groups and guilds will run EV and KP and not bother with EC since the reward is better for the easier route, and TFB SM groups will become available only as pugs once guilds get the fight strats down. If you want players (geared or not) to try these runs then you have to add the little carrot of reward at the end for them to strive for.

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And that's where we are today. Now The Casuals can experience all of that wonderful content. If you're still complaining, then it's about the loot. If you want the loot, then rise to the challenge and/or put the work in.

 

Actually, we're not there. Not all the Story Mode raids are in the Group Finder or targeted towards non-progression players. Further, if it's going to be pointless to gear progression, then it really needs to have a steep decrease in difficulty. Groups you get via group finder are an odd bunch. I've had at least ten occasions now where my DPS Sage has had more Health than the Tank.

 

I don't mind having Story Mode not give out the best loot. Loot isn't why I play. Further, the game gives non-progression minded folks a means to get decent gear anyway (Hence why I often outgear tanks). But I would like to see story mode move to a place where if I get a newbie tank who needs to learn or a healer who hasn't learned to manage power, I don't waste a night.

Edited by Master-Nala
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I understand what you're saying, but understand that HM EV/KP are much easier than EC or TFB in that regard, and to not be able to even inch your way slightly closer to better gear after doing the harder runs seems a bit silly.

 

I'm not advocating for free give-aways for the top notch gear, but groups and guilds will run EV and KP and not bother with EC since the reward is better for the easier route, and TFB SM groups will become available only as pugs once guilds get the fight strats down. If you want players (geared or not) to try these runs then you have to add the little carrot of reward at the end for them to strive for.

 

1 - Have you tried SM EC since 1.4. For the third time in this thread, I've stated they nerfed SM EC into the ground. I'm assuming you're comparing HM EV/KP to SM EC/TFB, right?

2 - There is a little carrot - It's completing the weekly which gives BH comms.

 

If you're complaining that SM TFB is too hard for the gear BW expects you to be able to complete it in, then that's a tuning issue, much like people complained that the FP LI was too hard for the gear it dropped. If that's the case, complain that SM TFB is too hard and should be tuned down. There's nothing wrong with that. But wanting access to BH gear from Story mode EC/TFB is jumping the gear progression from Columi straight to BH. That isn't how it should go.

 

I don't mind having Story Mode not give out the best loot. Loot isn't why I play. Further, the game gives non-progression minded folks a means to get decent gear anyway (Hence why I often outgear tanks). But I would like to see story mode move to a place where if I get a newbie tank who needs to learn or a healer who hasn't learned to manage power, I don't waste a night.
I somewhat understand and sympathize, but they same thing can be said of the queue finder for HM FP's Trust me, I've played MMO's off and on for 8 years. You're going to find people who aren't up to par with the gear they're wearing, whether it's someone who's bad in fresh greens, to someone who is still bad, but got carried and is wearing pretty high-end gear.

 

Someone who's going to do any sort of role in a group whether it's dungeons, raids, flashpoints, or operations, should have some experience with their class and mechanics. That's what getting to level 50 was for.

 

What you're asking for isn't new and will never be fully prevented in any sort of setting.

Edited by Lostpenguins
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You are having a very difficult time keeping people involved in the game, and your promises keep falling short.

 

You said TfB would not drop any new gear, but would help bridge the gap to get people into BH gear faster. That is a lie.

 

SM EC Did not need to be nerfed.

 

Give people a reason to DO SM EC and TfB, and you buy yourselves a bit more time before the ************ hits a cataclysm. Who cares that we can get BH coms in SM, especially considering The ridiculous new pricing introduced.

 

I didn't mind doing SM operations, as it gave me something to do with my guildmates, but now there is hardly any reason whatsoever to do them.

 

With EV/KP it was not a big deal, because you had Nightmare mode, now you can't even introduce this in a timely fashion.

 

I love this game, but you keep making really poor decisions, and pushing people that really don't want to quit to want to quit.

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You are having a very difficult time keeping people involved in the game, and your promises keep falling short.

 

You said TfB would not drop any new gear, but would help bridge the gap to get people into BH gear faster. That is a lie.

 

SM EC Did not need to be nerfed.

 

Give people a reason to DO SM EC and TfB, and you buy yourselves a bit more time before the ************ hits a cataclysm. Who cares that we can get BH coms in SM, especially considering The ridiculous new pricing introduced.

 

I didn't mind doing SM operations, as it gave me something to do with my guildmates, but now there is hardly any reason whatsoever to do them.

 

With EV/KP it was not a big deal, because you had Nightmare mode, now you can't even introduce this in a timely fashion.

 

I love this game, but you keep making really poor decisions, and pushing people that really don't want to quit to want to quit.

 

Exactly. I don't understand why Bioware is trying to make things harder and create divisions among players. Sure, BH comms were being doled out like candy. There's nothing wrong with that because it's fun, it gives people a reason to run easier content with newbies or inexperienced players or alts or just to hang out with people they know, and don't know. And when casual guilds want to get into harder content, the BH comms provides a good way to get them up to speed. It also encourages more people to run SM TFB, it's easier to fill spots due to raider attrition, increases player mingling, increases player interest in trying hardmodes. There are just so many tangible and intangible reasons why nerfing the rate of BH comm acquisition is counterproductive.

 

My main is already geared for hardmodes but I was still looking forward to running SM EC/TFB for the comms. Getting gear is not just for my main but for my alts and pets, and guess what, it's FUN. But for the first time I've felt compelled to NOT log on because even though there's more content now, there's less to do outside of progression raids, ironically enough. Grinding BH comms through the weekly/dailies is NOT conducive to retaining players. I'm also curious why BH comms were removed from KP Nightmare- this action contradicts their official explanation. It's clear BH comms no longer drop in all these places in order to prolong the gear grind which is actually antithetical to player retention- another bit of irony. I'm dumbfounded by BIoware's thin reasoning.

Edited by Projawa
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From what i've experienced when EC came out,my guild had a hard time doing story mode on our 2-3 first weeks,after that it became much easier. EC is nerted a lots so i think columi is totally good for the SM.

To someone who said TFB is not possible with columi gear: give it time. the op is new and people are still getting used to the mechanic. Once they understand the mechanic,the fight will be a lots easier.

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I asked Ahmad Zabarah (a Senior Designer) to share some more details about this change. The reason we removed the Commendations from Story Mode is that it is our goal to separate Story Mode Operations from Operation progression going forwards. In the previous setup, Story Mode was the best way to farm Black Hole Commendations, which wasn't our intent for the different difficultly modes. Going forward, Hard Mode and Nightmare mode will be the source of progression in Operations. We did, however, add Black Hole Commendations to the weekly Explosive Conflict mission, so you can also obtain the Commendations that way.

 

basically TL;DR we nerfed SM EC's BH coms by 20, but gave you 8 or so for doing the weekly, grats.

 

and no the best way to farm black hole coms would to do everything you can in one week to get black hole coms.

7 random GF dungeons, 2 "random" operations, the Black Hole dailys at least once per week, and the rakghoul weekly, and Nightmare KP, and last but not least, doing SM/HM EC and the weekly associated with it which equaled to the ballpark of around 120 coms per week. Now that NIM Kp and SM ec don't drop them, and the chests in EC HM don't drop them, that is a significant nerf, I liked being able to gear up my alts and such, guess I'm boned now.

 

On top of that how do you define "progression" because I think it varies from guild to guild to developer, not everyone is currently working on the HM of the new operation. Many people will still feel that the natural order of progression would be to gear up at least columi - then to rakata- then ..... You know what, I don't care, you guys messed up by having a billion "tiers" of gear right off the bat. Regardless of your " intentions " people wont mess around with SM EC any more, unless they still working on their natural gear progression to get into TFB HM, I didnt mind doing it before to get alts some quick cheap gear, but I don't see myself going back in there ever again, so grats on that.

Edited by Fortunefive
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Let me explain it again:

1) Get to lvl 50

2) Do regular lvl 50 FP's to get some better than starting lvl 50 gear

3) Do HM FP's to get Columi gear. You don't want to do HM FP's, then do SM EV/KP to get Columi,

4) Do HM EV/KP to get Rakata. Or you can do SM EC/TFB (Please notice in the patch 1.4 notes that SM EC was really nerfed).

5) Do HM EC/TFB.

 

So, you can get from 1 --> 5 without doing a single story mode. Got it?

 

It makes NO SENSE to remove BH comms from NiM KP. So let me get this straight, if I PUG it through the group finder, I can get BH comms for running SM KP, but not NiM KP with a group of my own choosing? How does that make any sense?

 

Want real progression?

EV/KP SMs available in the group finder for Columi gear rewards and Daily Comms.

(Keep HM FPs as they are, and reward putting up with PUGs with a few BH comms at the end, as currently happens).

 

HM KP & EV and NiMs should have lockouts separated, all available in the group finder for the BH Comms that SM rewards right now. Both drop Rakata gear and additionally, in NiM, all bosses drop a couple BH comms.

 

Then you can run SM EC and SM TfB if you want to learn the fights and mechanics with a quick run (since you would be "over geared" in Rakata, this should mean you can clear either OP in an hour or less). This is valuable also to learn these OPs in a different role, or with a different mix of roles (which makes it worth having around for more than just one run in some cases). Also, everybody gets to see the end-game content even if they aren't in a hard core raiding guild.

 

Once you have the mechanics down, then you run HM EC and TfB for BH gear, which should drop more frequently, and campaign gear/dread guard gear definitely should since everyone in the raid is competing for that one single token. I won't even start on a discussion of having to purchase multiple pieces of BH gear in order to have decent mods for your class and how long that takes. And yes, I understand that it is my choice to not over-stack Alacrity, but I think that's been just about everybody's choice given how frequently I hear people talking about pulling mods out of BH to maximize the stats on their gear.

 

Anyway, to be able to run SM in group finder for BH comms but not HM or NiM is silly. I also agree that this isn't really "farming" since you can only do this once a week for a whopping total of 10 BH comms if you run both... but whatever.

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It makes NO SENSE to remove BH comms from NiM KP. So let me get this straight, if I PUG it through the group finder, I can get BH comms for running SM KP, but not NiM KP with a group of my own choosing? How does that make any sense?

 

Want real progression?

EV/KP SMs available in the group finder for Columi gear rewards and Daily Comms.

(Keep HM FPs as they are, and reward putting up with PUGs with a few BH comms at the end, as currently happens).

 

HM KP & EV and NiMs should have lockouts separated, all available in the group finder for the BH Comms that SM rewards right now. Both drop Rakata gear and additionally, in NiM, all bosses drop a couple BH comms.

 

Then you can run SM EC and SM TfB if you want to learn the fights and mechanics with a quick run (since you would be "over geared" in Rakata, this should mean you can clear either OP in an hour or less). This is valuable also to learn these OPs in a different role, or with a different mix of roles (which makes it worth having around for more than just one run in some cases). Also, everybody gets to see the end-game content even if they aren't in a hard core raiding guild.

 

Once you have the mechanics down, then you run HM EC and TfB for BH gear, which should drop more frequently, and campaign gear/dread guard gear definitely should since everyone in the raid is competing for that one single token. I won't even start on a discussion of having to purchase multiple pieces of BH gear in order to have decent mods for your class and how long that takes. And yes, I understand that it is my choice to not over-stack Alacrity, but I think that's been just about everybody's choice given how frequently I hear people talking about pulling mods out of BH to maximize the stats on their gear.

 

Anyway, to be able to run SM in group finder for BH comms but not HM or NiM is silly. I also agree that this isn't really "farming" since you can only do this once a week for a whopping total of 10 BH comms if you run both... but whatever.

 

nice post tbh...

 

i mostly agree, though i dont think NM EV is hard enough to justify any BH comms reward per boss, but maybe as a reward for completion.

i can see why the comms were removed from the chests in EC SM and kinda agree that the SM is there (supposedly) to learn tactics for HM. farming BH comms from EC SM meant the only reason u really had to do EC HM was for mainhand and offhand gear.

 

on a side note, i think there should be a title gained in KP for operating the puzzle and successfully killing the fabricator. as it is, too many people queue up for KP SM who dont know how to use it and make it a hideous operation to pug.

having a title specifically for knowing the puzzle would give people an incentive to actually learn how to do it.

something along the lines of The Builder for SM and The Architect for HM/NM?

 

i saw a couple posts saying that EC SM rewards the same gear required to run it.

this is completely false. EC SM is completely doable with a full columi geared team as long as they are somewhat competent. TfB SM is doable with columi+ and should be easy in rakata+.

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I understand where bioware is coming from by expecting SM to be where everyone can experience the content and HM where you go to gear up and progress skill-wise. But what I do not understand is why the new implants cost so much, the gear is so poorly itemized, and bioware has even stated that they wanted to keep the gear itemized so that it is not all BiS right away because they wanted the best players to grind to make it BiS. They say this but then make the grind even harder. If you want us to grind for BiS that is fine, but allow us to actually grind for it. The appeal of this game is all the class quests so the leveling in encouraged, that means players want to get multiple classes to 50 and raid on them or to be able to use one class in multiple specs. This means we need a LOT of ways to itemize BiS. If you answer is by making it even more challenging then something needs to be done with the gear so that it is more feasible.
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