It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.

Agreed. This thread is one of the reasons I hate PvP, all the elitist rubbish.

Yeah I was broke by the time I dinged 50. Something ot keep in mind is if you turn people off of PVP, you won't have anyone to improve and play on your side.

It doesnt matter what you try to prove with your deluded ideas. A pure 18% damage boost is better than a few secondary stats (the thing that the expertise slot occupies). It also has a far more forgiving DR than surge and crit.

 

And even that was shown prior to the release of 1.2 it still holds true that expertise is the way to go, otherwise the suggestion would probably have been changed.

 

I also see nothing in the mr.robot links that backs up anything you say, seeing as how the page is broken and not adding things up right. You will notice what i mean if you look at your own links.

 

Also, to quote what expertise says.

 

Increases damage dealt when attacking a player or companion character.

Reduces damage suffered when attacked by a player or companion character.

Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat.

 

None of those lines imply it buffs bonus damage like Force Might/Unnatural might does.

 

And I was very kind in my earlier damage comparison and gave you a 20% higher damage off the bat just for wearing PvE gear with higher secondary stats. There difference in game would probably not be as high as 20%.

 

Maybe if it was recruit vs rakata, maybe. But I doubt the damage would be that high. In which case the benefit is much higher while wearing recruit gear in pvp. Its not about 1vs1 situations, its group PvP. Not wearing it means you are harder to heal, have much less survivability and less damage versus pvp targets.

 

But hey if you want to be on equal footing vs a recruit geared pvper, go right ahead and wear rakata, just be ready to get mutilated by BM/WH geared people. Because they will most likely have the same or higher hp as you, same power, same surge, a bit less crit (if modded right) and deal 20% or more extra damage to you while you deal 18%+ less damage to them.

 

That is a large gap.

 

p.s. you can also mix and match to get the best secondary stats on your recruit gear.

Since when is Recruit gear moddable? Rakata, maybe? LOL...

looks like mr robot can add better than you. Check the endurance stat and tell me it was added wrong. Do you know how main/pow/tech/force contribute to your damage bonus stat? Those two comparisions assumes NO DATACRONS, NO BUFFS, SAME SPEC. Here lets assume trooper buff:

5% increase PvE gear= 12,474HP

5% increase PvPgear = 10,773HP

Now instead of 1620K difference; we are @ 1701K difference....

SAME THING FOR SMUGG BUFF, SAME THING FOR KNIGHT BUFF, ETC, ETC...

Here read note #33

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=388132&page=4

This was prior to 1.2, the curve has changed, but the basis of the affect of the curve has not...

Here is some REAL numbers I did prior to 1.2.

[EDIT] http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=388132&page=4

Read note # 32 & #33

Thanks.

Yeah I was broke by the time I dinged 50. Something ot keep in mind is if you turn people off of PVP, you won't have anyone to improve and play on your side.

So put off PvP for a couple hours and go do dailies until you have the money to buy the set. Is it really that difficult? It'd be one thing if you could queue up with 7 other friends willing to carry you, but the people you're grouped with don't have that option. Especially if queue times are as long as they are on my server, leaving a WZ because someone refuses to buy readily available pvp gear simply isn't an option. If PvP is really that important to you, put aside the money before you hit 50. Plan ahead. There is no excuse not to buy and wear the Recruit set once you hit 50.

Here is some REAL numbers I did prior to 1.2.

[EDIT] http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=388132&page=4

Read note # 32 & #33

Below from your posts.

The only real way to test which one was more effective was through self-healing because that does not include factors from other players. So I took my skill Deliverance baseline which is 2899-3014. According to some, +15% expertise adrenal should have made this range 3333-3466, which was not the case. After testing 10EA Exp adrenals, all heals fell between 2992-3045; crit heals were less than 5k(4978). This tells me that my initial thought that expertise ONLY affects your heal/damage bonus stat is true.

And

The PvP testing was on ships and @ spawns in the filler time between loads/starts, and before cage releases(as to try to not affect the WZ too much). I would think having 100% health should not affect what the values are. It took about 13-14 WZ to come up with the numbers I have. I did not try open world PvP locals, but that is a good idea that I will try as well (especially since they are dead zones).

This is as flawed as expertise adrenal/expertise testing in general can get. You tried self healing, in cages, while waiting to spawn and so on, all according to your own statements in these quotes.

This does not bring any facts or data worth squat. You must be active in PvP combat to get the expertise bonus. Expertise only effects you if you are currently figthing another player. Also the 15% adrenal didnt increase your expertise %, it increased expertise rating by 15% i.e 100 rating+adrenal = 115 rating. But it doesnt matter, you must be in combat with another player for expertise to have effect.

For the love of all things unholy just read the expertise tooltips on your damn character sheet already.

"Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat."

Since when is Recruit gear moddable? Rakata, maybe? LOL...

looks like mr robot can add better than you. Check the endurance stat and tell me it was added wrong. Do you know how main/pow/tech/force contribute to your damage bonus stat?

 

Here read note #33

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=388132&page=4

 

This was prior to 1.2, the curve has changed, but the basis of the affect of the curve has not...

WH/BM is moddable, learn to read paragraphs. Unless you misunderstood my last line, which means you dont need to stick to just say eliminator when buying recruit if you want to max power or something.

And if you checked mr.robot you would see force power is missing in your first link for the off-hand. Didnt bother checking what else is missing on there.

Thanks.

Do not trust those results.

Below from your posts.

 

 

 

And

 

 

 

This is as flawed as expertise adrenal/expertise testing in general can get. You tried self healing, in cages, while waiting to spawn and so on, all according to your own statements in these quotes.

 

This does not bring any facts or data worth squat. You must be active in PvP combat to get the expertise bonus. Expertise only effects you if you are currently figthing another player. Also the 15% adrenal didnt increase your expertise %, it increased expertise rating by 15% i.e 100 rating+adrenal = 115 rating. But it doesnt matter, you must be in combat with another player for expertise to have effect.

 

For the love of all things unholy just read the expertise tooltips on your damn character sheet already.

 

"Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat."

 

 

 

WH/BM is moddable, learn to read paragraphs. Unless you misunderstood my last line, which means you dont need to stick to just say eliminator when buying recruit if you want to max power or something.

 

And if you checked mr.robot you would see force power is missing in your first link for the off-hand. Didnt bother checking what else is missing on there.

What? You mean on the PvE example? Ok fine, but it does nothing but proves my point further.

How exactly to you min/max a recruit set? You can't because switching might give you a USELESS stat. "Yeah this stalker one is great, but it has ""accuracy"" on it." I'm a DPS Sage.....derp...

About my testing:

As long as your nameplate turns green, you are in PvP, so testing on ships is just as relavant as testing while babysitting a node. Even if I am in the cage, after a defeat, I AM STILL IN PVP COMBAT. I after I got some push back on that I hid behind a box on VOIDSTAR. On top of ALL of that, I went to Ilum. Same things held true... Now you can be dismissive on this all you want, but how do you explain the apparent "buff" to my tooltip rating on heals when I used a WZ adrenal on the ship? Was I out-performing my tooltip since the adrenal had no impact on my healing? PLEASE!!!

You obviously think your expertise is king, I won't fight you on it anymore...

Below from your posts.

 

 

 

And

 

 

 

This is as flawed as expertise adrenal/expertise testing in general can get. You tried self healing, in cages, while waiting to spawn and so on, all according to your own statements in these quotes.

 

This does not bring any facts or data worth squat. You must be active in PvP combat to get the expertise bonus. Expertise only effects you if you are currently figthing another player. Also the 15% adrenal didnt increase your expertise %, it increased expertise rating by 15% i.e 100 rating+adrenal = 115 rating. But it doesnt matter, you must be in combat with another player for expertise to have effect.

 

For the love of all things unholy just read the expertise tooltips on your damn character sheet already.

 

"Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat."

 

 

 

WH/BM is moddable, learn to read paragraphs. Unless you misunderstood my last line, which means you dont need to stick to just say eliminator when buying recruit if you want to max power or something.

 

And if you checked mr.robot you would see force power is missing in your first link for the off-hand. Didnt bother checking what else is missing on there.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/79e226c3-f042-441d-818a-5fb24469272d

Here I fixed the PvE example. With a worst one than I had.... Oh and notice how it clipped your damage bonus...

Blah, blah, blah. It's a game, they can do whatever they want, just the same as you. Besides, I bet you don't complain at all when they end up on the other team.

I do. I hate lopsided wins almost as much as lopsided losses. The close, well played games where everyone on both teams has gear are the fun games.

Do not trust those results.

May I ask you for any of yours? I forgot....,

YOU DON'T HAVE THE PvE GEAR TO EVEN SEE THE DIFFERENCE...

What? You mean on the PvE example? Ok fine, but it does nothing but proves my point further.

 

How exactly to you min/max a recruit set? You can't because switching might give you a USELESS stat. "Yeah this stalker one is great, but it has ""accuracy"" on it." I'm a DPS Sage.....derp...

 

About my testing:

As long as your nameplate turns green, you are in PvP, so testing on ships is just as relavant as testing while babysitting a node. Even if I am in the cage, after a defeat, I AM STILL IN PVP COMBAT. I after I got some push back on that I hid behind a box on VOIDSTAR. On top of ALL of that, I went to Ilum. Same things held true... Now you can be dismissive on this all you want, but how do you explain the apparent "buff" to my tooltip rating on heals when I used a WZ adrenal on the ship? Was I out-performing my tooltip since the adrenal had no impact on my healing? PLEASE!!!

 

You obviously think your expertise is king, I won't fight you on it anymore...

PvE example? No I'm talking about the PvP healing example and adrenal. The PvE adrenals can be tested anywhere. And you remember this testing was done prior to 1.2, the patch that gave correct tooltips on min/max damage/healing and so on. So all in all it was a placebo effect, nothing more. Or the effect of Force Might or something else that didnt get updated properly in the tooltip.

But again

"Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat."

1. The adrenal increases rating.

2. You must be in active combat to get the healing bonus. Seen it first hand many times on my sorc guarding objectives and draining myself. Snatching a WZ exp buff or chugging an adrenal with no bonus to my healing. Since I'm not fighting anyone.

3. How many documented heals do you have in a PvE area, like the fleet or somewhere else? You cant just start testing in a WZ, you need a pile of tries outside the WZ and the same amount inside. You need to test it in combat and out of combat in WZ and calculate the trauma buff into it.

And no I dont think my expertise is king, I just know its impact and benefit. All I've seen from you is angry behavior, poor "facts" and flawed testing.

You still havent answered me what made rakata so great suddenly even though expertise got a HUGE buff. Rakata geared players died very easily with centurion/champ gear pre 1.2. What changed that made them better now?

edit: Good you updated that. Still you wasted alot of credits on 49 epics/augments for gear that is inferior to recruit gear. Sorry that you min/maxed to get optimal endurance power and surge, costing you probably 2 times the recruit gear, for pretty much 0 benefit.

Sure your surge negates the abs when you crit, but the abs negates your surge at the same time. I will still deal 18% damage more at all times, for a cheaper penny. I will also see huge expertise benefits for each piece of BM gear I get while you wont notice a huge difference before having close to a full set.

PvE example? No I'm talking about the PvP healing example and adrenal. The PvE adrenals can be tested anywhere. And you remember this testing was done prior to 1.2, the patch that gave correct tooltips on min/max damage/healing and so on. So all in all it was a placebo effect, nothing more. Or the effect of Force Might or something else that didnt get updated properly in the tooltip.

 

But again

 

"Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat."

 

1. The adrenal increases rating.

2. You must be in active combat to get the healing bonus. Seen it first hand many times on my sorc guarding objectives and draining myself. Snatching a WZ exp buff or chugging an adrenal with no bonus to my healing. Since I'm not fighting anyone.

3. How many documented heals do you have in a PvE area, like the fleet or somewhere else? You cant just start testing in a WZ, you need a pile of tries outside the WZ and the same amount inside. You need to test it in combat and out of combat in WZ and calculate the trauma buff into it.

 

And no I dont think my expertise is king, I just know its impact and benefit. All I've seen from you is angry behavior, poor "facts" and flawed testing.

 

You still havent answered me what made rakata so great suddenly even though expertise got a HUGE buff. Rakata geared players died very easily with centurion/champ gear pre 1.2. What changed that made them better now?

Your answer: Plese excuse the questions first....

Q: WHY DID THEY BUFF EXPERTISE ON BM GEAR, IF IT WAS ALREADY BETTER THAN RAKATA?

A: IT WAS NOT BETTER, INFACT IT WAS SUBPAR BECAUSE THE MODS/ENH WERE IDENTICAL, BUT THE ARMOR SLOTS WERE NOT.

Rakata was ALWAYS BETTER THAN BM, it is also universally accepted that in PRE 1.2, you could PvP in Rakata and not be a disservice to yourself or your team.

Why was this? What was the difference between RAK and BM pieces?

The armor slot.

What does the armor slot consist of? END/MAIN..... so main stat matters in PVP REGARDLESS OF WHAT TIER LEVEL YOU ARE AT.

The armor slot is STILL unchanged, which was the ONLY reason there was a difference pre-1.2. They added +50EXP(1.4%) to account for the difference. NOW BM IS MORE IN LINE WITH RAKATA. Shiz, I see and IMP Jugg running aroung with 20K+ HP (and his HP is too high to be in full WH gear). Even with full recruit gear, good luck taking that guy down, he will swat you like a fly...

You also forget the trauma debuff, so if you are "in combat" you get buffed, then debuffed.... ok...

[EDIT]

Placebo? You can't explain why I exceeded the tooltip when I was on the ship?

So tooltip could have been wrong when I was on the ship testing WZ ADR, but correct when I was off the ship testing Rakata?

If you can self-heal, try it yourself, but you probably can't.. Since I am am a Sage I can, just on that alone, my testing has more credibility than your fanboy expertise cheering.....

Your answer: Plese excuse the questions first....

Q: WHY DID THEY BUFF EXPERTISE ON BM GEAR, IF IT WAS ALREADY BETTER THAN RAKATA?

A: IT WAS NOT BETTER, INFACT IT WAS SUBPAR BECAUSE THE MODS/ENH WERE IDENTICAL, BUT THE ARMOR SLOTS WERE NOT.

 

Rakata was ALWAYS BETTER THAN BM, it is also universally accepted that in PRE 1.2, you could PvP in Rakata and not be a disservice to yourself or your team.

Why was this? What was the difference between RAK and BM pieces?

The armor slot.

What does the armor slot consist of? END/MAIN..... so main stat matters in PVP REGARDLESS OF WHAT TIER LEVEL YOU ARE AT.

 

The armor slot is STILL unchanged, which was the ONLY reason there was a difference pre-1.2. They added +50EXP(1.4%) to account for the difference. NOW BM IS MORE IN LINE WITH RAKATA. Shiz, I see and IMP Jugg running aroung with 20K+ HP (and his HP is too high to be in full WH gear). Even with full recruit gear, good luck taking that guy down, he will swat you like a fly...

 

 

 

You also forget the trauma debuff, so if you are "in combat" you get buffed, then debuffed.... ok...

 

[EDIT]

Placebo? You can't explain why I exceeded the tooltip when I was on the ship?

So tooltip could have been wrong when I was on the ship testing WZ ADR, but correct when I was off the ship testing Rakata?

If you can self-heal, try it yourself, but you probably can't.. Since I am am a Sage I can, just on that alone, my testing has more credibility than your fanboy expertise cheering.....

No BM gear was better and is better for PvP. 10-12% expertise vs none pre 1.2 makes up for the difference in main stats/end. Itsup to a 25% difference when it comes to totaling damage output/reduction. No matter how you try to turn it. Some rakata+BM was viable, but pure BM vs pure rakata would mean advantage for BM.

And the armor slot consisted of end+main+exp for PvP gear and end+stat and a secondary stat for pve gear pre 1.2. There was no expertise on other mods of the gear until 1.2 hit.

Tio = cent, cul = champ, rak = BM. Except that the PvP versions had expertise which benefits you more in PvP than a slightly higher stat.

And what "ship" are you talking about? You mean the fleet or your ship or? Outside a wZ I assume. In which case I call complete BS on your "testing" of WZ adrenal. Because you know what. Can only be used in Warzones.

You talk so much BS its inline with trolling.

And I did not forget the trauma debuff, I told you it needs to be included in proper testing variables. Dont skip through posts and make false claims.

So still, yes, placebo.

No BM gear was better and is better for PvP. 10-12% expertise vs none pre 1.2 makes up for the difference in main stats/end. Itsup to a 25% difference when it comes to totaling damage output/reduction. No matter how you try to turn it. Some rakata+BM was viable, but pure BM vs pure rakata would mean advantage for BM.

 

And the armor slot consisted of end+main+exp for PvP gear and end+stat and a secondary stat for pve gear pre 1.2. There was no expertise on other mods of the gear until 1.2 hit.

 

Tio = cent, cul = champ, rak = BM. Except that the PvP versions had expertise which benefits you more in PvP than a slightly higher stat.

 

And what "ship" are you talking about? You mean the fleet or your ship or? Outside a wZ I assume. In which case I call complete BS on your "testing" of WZ adrenal. Because you know what. Can only be used in Warzones.

 

You talk so much BS its inline with trolling.

 

And I did not forget the trauma debuff, I told you it needs to be included in proper testing variables. Dont skip through posts and make false claims.

 

So still, yes, placebo.

"Lemont, you big dummy."

Ship= Spawn point on Alderaan

Cage= Behind th Force field on voidstar/hutball

Open world Ilum, behind a box @ voidstar/HB, sitting at a turret on Alderaan, it dont matter. Its all PvP because the PvP flag is toggled... This is were my test were done... SO.... NO..... NOT "PLACEBO" and I also took other players and the trauma debuff out of the equation. So it comes down to MY stats and my stats alone...

Now that I have explained what I thought were obvious things, can you explain why I exceeded my tooltip value with the WZ adrenal, but didn't hit the marks it should have with the 15% expertise gain? Proabaly not besides saying "oh its a bug" or "because the devs said so". NO, like I said, if you could self heal you would see I'm right about expertise, but you can't, so your opinion about it is uneducated to say the least. Do I need to make a video on Ilum to prove it? I guess so, since you can't understand.

As for the increase, the max is 22% damage on BM which is ONLY a 4% difference from what it was previously, so once again you have no clue what you are talking about.

http://dulfy.net/2012/03/22/pvp-gearing-in-1-2/

People sat at 12% because they UNDERSTOOD that expertise, at the heart, was a NERF compaired to the same tier PvP equiv..

You really think 4% makes an effing difference? And this is just from the damage perspective. Current max on BM for healing is 12%. You do realize that main stat affects your healing too? Is that 12% gain really worth nerfing your healing bonus by 200 or more?

Here is the graph again for 1100EXP what were the values pre 1.2 or post 1.2?

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

AGAIN I say... Do you have the pieces to compare ANYTHING? No. You just blindly believe what people say even though the equations behind the game don't jive, and you have no idea how damage is calculated. Here you go...

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/03/06/how-attacks-and-damage-are-calculated/

As a Sage, I deal force attacks, so just lop off the top two lines. It boils down to Damage Bonus(Player controlled), and Base damage(BW controlled), so if I sacrifice bonus damage (in the form of main/power/force) for the sake of expertise(a player dependant secondary stat like power), what am I really gaining? This is why I did the testing..

How about you do a screenshot of the tooltip of your BEST attack, pull upiyour toon stats so I can see your surge rating and exp rating ,at the same time. Then get me a WZ scoreboard of your best single hit to see if it falls within what your expertise percentage should have been on that attack. You won't even be close....

The real reason a combination of BM+rakata was better than full BM for some classes is due to the set bonuses of pve gear. For example, dps commandos pve gear 2 piece gave them 15% crit on grav round. That 2 piece bonus is so *********** good it would be insane to not wear 2 pieces of rakata. Other classes like my guardian have poo pve bonuses, so I wore full BM gear.

None of the matters now. The devs have already confirmed that expertise is KING, and is the single most important stat for pvp.

I think it would be nice if BW could enforce some type of minimum expertise in order to pvp rule, but it won't ever happen. But ya, if I get into a WZ where someone has sub 300 expertise because they are too cheap to buy recruit gear, I will talk mad **** on you for being bad.

"Lemont, you big dummy."

Ship= Spawn point on Alderaan

Cage= Behind th Force field on voidstar/hutball

Open world Ilum, behind a box @ voidstar/HB, sitting at a turret on Alderaan, it dont matter. Its all PvP because the PvP flag is toggled... This is were my test were done... SO.... NO..... NOT "PLACEBO" and I also took other players and the trauma debuff out of the equation. So it comes down to MY stats and my stats alone...

 

Now that I have explained what I thought were obvious things, can you explain why I exceeded my tooltip value with the WZ adrenal, but didn't hit the marks it should have with the 15% expertise gain? Proabaly not besides saying "oh its a bug" or "because the devs said so". NO, like I said, if you could self heal you would see I'm right about expertise, but you can't, so your opinion about it is uneducated to say the least. Do I need to make a video on Ilum to prove it? I guess so, since you can't understand.

 

 

As for the increase, the max is 22% damage on BM which is ONLY a 4% difference from what it was previously, so once again you have no clue what you are talking about.

http://dulfy.net/2012/03/22/pvp-gearing-in-1-2/

 

People sat at 12% because they UNDERSTOOD that expertise, at the heart, was a NERF compaired to the same tier PvP equiv..

 

 

You really think 4% makes an effing difference? And this is just from the damage perspective. Current max on BM for healing is 12%. You do realize that main stat affects your healing too? Is that 12% gain really worth nerfing your healing bonus by 200 or more?

 

Here is the graph again for 1100EXP what were the values pre 1.2 or post 1.2?

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

 

AGAIN I say... Do you have the pieces to compare ANYTHING? No. You just blindly believe what people say even though the equations behind the game don't jive, and you have no idea how damage is calculated. Here you go...

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/03/06/how-attacks-and-damage-are-calculated/

 

As a Sage, I deal force attacks, so just lop off the top two lines. It boils down to Damage Bonus(Player controlled), and Base damage(BW controlled), so if I sacrifice bonus damage (in the form of main/power/force) for the sake of expertise(a player dependant secondary stat like power), what am I really gaining? This is why I did the testing..

 

How about you do a screenshot of the tooltip of your BEST attack, pull upiyour toon stats so I can see your surge rating and exp rating ,at the same time. Then get me a WZ scoreboard of your best single hit to see if it falls within what your expertise percentage should have been on that attack. You won't even be close....

You say BM is only 4% higher in expertise now compared to pre patch. You couldnt reach nearly close to that amount in BM gear pre patch near 15% was the absolute max in a full gear. They buffed the benefit from expertise and they buffed the actual expertise rating on BM gear. You need to read the lists down on the dulfy page.

Full set of BM now compared to old according to that site if you actually read beyond the first 2 lines.

Old: 700 (varies with around 5 points depending on class) 14.89%

New: 1164, 22.23%

Difference: 7.3% roughly

Those 4% you talk about, the actual 4.03 are between BM and recruit. And I quote your own link.

Here are the expertise numbers for full sets of gear from each of the 5 sets. PvP damage bonus difference is from the previous set to the next , for example 4.21% is from Champion to Recruit.

No matter how you like to see it, you are still several % behind a guy in PvP gear. They get a flat damage boost and a flat damage reduction.

Recruit: D18.20, DR15.40, H9.99 %

BM: D22.23, DR18.18, H12.27 %

Its no wonder people sat on 12% because the DR was too steep to actually get to 14% without sacrificing too much damage. But that was 2%, skipping pieces now reduces your expertise severly compared to before. Because the % is much higher. As I said, difference between old and new BM expertise is 7% units. That is roughly a 33% increase in expertise on the set compared to pre 1.2

Now its equstionable to give up 2+ pieces just to get a set bonus from PvP, because you lose too much expertise. The main stats are also a bit lower BM old vs BM new, but sec. stats like power and crit make up for it.

And again, the thing that cant be said enough, you cant test expertise healing by just healing yourself out of combat, that isnt how expertise works.

Not sure how they could code what is and what is not allowed in the WZ. But it would be nice if you could bash some sense into these people's heads.

Sadly you do that and your whole server starts hating you.

I personally love the idiots who say "its to expensive" "I can get Battlemaster way easier" "stop being mean to me you have all your gear". You know how I got my gear? RANDOM TOKENS. Christ I would have loved to have recruit gear in the game at launch. I gladly would have bought it!

It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.

EXACTLY!

It is this type of elitism that people in this thread expresses that really turns casuals like myself away from MMOs. When I turned Level 50, I was excited to start doing L50 Warzones and once I hit 50, I queued for a warzone. The ONLY PvP gear I had was the level 40 PvP gear for my Juggernaut. For the most part, I held my own, until I got in a few games where a few elite players chewed me off for not having FULL Level 50 PvP gear. OH MY BAD! I forgot! When THEY turned L50, I am sure that they had a full set of Battlemaster gear! Yeah, I forgot that! /sarcasm

But seriously, I remember a dude jumping down my throat because I only had like 13K HP and I was running with the Ball in Huttball, needless to say, I scored 5 times in that game.....go figure.

I remember a dude in Civil War bashing us because many of us weren't 100% geared in PvP armor so he went to the one turrent we had and pouted and decided to just give up and stay there so he can collect valor/defense points. Needless to say, many of us just put him on the /ignore list and we eventually came back and won the game because even though we were undergeared, we formulated a strategy to take out their healers so that we can cap Mid/Grass and eventually won.

--------------------

I am just going to put it like this people. I COULD GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY GEAR! Until you pay for my monthly subscription, I will play the game the way I want to play, when I want to play, where I want to play, and how I want to play. If I create a new character and that character gets to 50, first thing I'm doing is hitting up Level 50 Warzones and yes, I will be undergeared but SO WHAT! Did you buy my pc parts? Did you put together my PC? Do you pay for my monthly internet service? Did you buy my CE SWTOR? Do you pay my monthly subscription?

NO!

So go sit down.....

Just did the same healing test on my sorc.

Flagged on fleet.

Unflagged on fleet.

In waiting area of a WZ.

All results came out the same.

Healing avarage stated on ability tooltip: 2836-2978

Biggest three heals per situation during 25 heals.

Flagged on fleet: 2980, 3000, 2983. Crit: 5200, 5208, 5194.

Unflagged on fleet: 2996, 3006, 3000. Crit: 5189, 5206, 5198.

Denova spawn: 2984, 2992, 3002. Crit: 5186, 5202, 5209.

All was tested with the exact same buffs during all tries.

Something tells me you need to be fighting to gain the expertise healing bonus, just like I said earlier.

I am just going to put it like this people. I COULD GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY GEAR! Until you pay for my monthly subscription, I will play the game the way I want to play, when I want to play, where I want to play, and how I want to play. If I create a new character and that character gets to 50, first thing I'm doing is hitting up Level 50 Warzones and yes, I will be undergeared but SO WHAT! Did you buy my pc parts? Did you put together my PC? Do you pay for my monthly internet service? Did you buy my CE SWTOR? Do you pay my monthly subscription?

 

NO!

 

So go sit down.....

Why PvP in the first place if you dont care about gear? That just seems like masochistic self torture to me. And it has nothing to do with who pays your sub or PC or whatnot. Its about knowing what is there that the game provides you to make you better suited for what you do. Pre 1.2 fully modded/epic level [50] i.e quipable at 49 gear was good to start out with. But back then expertise didnt have the benefit it has now. It was a difference in 20-25%, now its up towards a 50% benefit having it vs someone who doesnt.

Also, that level 40 "PvP gear" is not PvP gear. Its just undergeared gear at level 50, you would probably do better in level 50 greens. And I would hate to be on the opposing team if a 2 hit wonder manages to score that many times against us. Guess the other side just really sucked or had even more people in level 40 "PvP gear".

EXACTLY!

 

It is this type of elitism that people in this thread expresses that really turns casuals like myself away from MMOs. When I turned Level 50, I was excited to start doing L50 Warzones and once I hit 50, I queued for a warzone. The ONLY PvP gear I had was the level 40 PvP gear for my Juggernaut. For the most part, I held my own, until I got in a few games where a few elite players chewed me off for not having FULL Level 50 PvP gear. OH MY BAD! I forgot! When THEY turned L50, I am sure that they had a full set of Battlemaster gear! Yeah, I forgot that! /sarcasm

 

But seriously, I remember a dude jumping down my throat because I only had like 13K HP and I was running with the Ball in Huttball, needless to say, I scored 5 times in that game.....go figure.

 

I remember a dude in Civil War bashing us because many of us weren't 100% geared in PvP armor so he went to the one turrent we had and pouted and decided to just give up and stay there so he can collect valor/defense points. Needless to say, many of us just put him on the /ignore list and we eventually came back and won the game because even though we were undergeared, we formulated a strategy to take out their healers so that we can cap Mid/Grass and eventually won.

 

--------------------

I am just going to put it like this people. I COULD GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY GEAR! Until you pay for my monthly subscription, I will play the game the way I want to play, when I want to play, where I want to play, and how I want to play. If I create a new character and that character gets to 50, first thing I'm doing is hitting up Level 50 Warzones and yes, I will be undergeared but SO WHAT! Did you buy my pc parts? Did you put together my PC? Do you pay for my monthly internet service? Did you buy my CE SWTOR? Do you pay my monthly subscription?

 

NO!

 

So go sit down.....

It takes a pretty selfish person to put the 7 other people in your group willingly at a disadvantage. Yet me not wanting people placing their teams at a disadvantage is elitist? I guess putting the good of the group ahead of the individual is the new elitism, who knew?

EXACTLY!

 

It is this type of elitism that people in this thread expresses that really turns casuals like myself away from MMOs. When I turned Level 50, I was excited to start doing L50 Warzones and once I hit 50, I queued for a warzone. The ONLY PvP gear I had was the level 40 PvP gear for my Juggernaut. For the most part, I held my own, until I got in a few games where a few elite players chewed me off for not having FULL Level 50 PvP gear. OH MY BAD! I forgot! When THEY turned L50, I am sure that they had a full set of Battlemaster gear! Yeah, I forgot that! /sarcasm

 

But seriously, I remember a dude jumping down my throat because I only had like 13K HP and I was running with the Ball in Huttball, needless to say, I scored 5 times in that game.....go figure.

 

I remember a dude in Civil War bashing us because many of us weren't 100% geared in PvP armor so he went to the one turrent we had and pouted and decided to just give up and stay there so he can collect valor/defense points. Needless to say, many of us just put him on the /ignore list and we eventually came back and won the game because even though we were undergeared, we formulated a strategy to take out their healers so that we can cap Mid/Grass and eventually won.

 

--------------------

I am just going to put it like this people. I COULD GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY GEAR! Until you pay for my monthly subscription, I will play the game the way I want to play, when I want to play, where I want to play, and how I want to play. If I create a new character and that character gets to 50, first thing I'm doing is hitting up Level 50 Warzones and yes, I will be undergeared but SO WHAT! Did you buy my pc parts? Did you put together my PC? Do you pay for my monthly internet service? Did you buy my CE SWTOR? Do you pay my monthly subscription?

 

NO!

 

So go sit down.....

I agree about the elitism, especially casuals and new players suffer by this. Wow is full of such people and so far the forum here is full of them aswell, my server luckily isnt so far.

But I also understand that in pvp not everyone should meet everyone. I currently have about 450 exp - I still die too quick without a healer and someone with 0 prolly dies in 2 hits.

There is no competition right now at MMO´s, as everyone plays everyone. We used to play tournaments at wow years ago and it was awesome. Every team had its 2-3 healers, 1 tank, some ranged and some melee - it was awesome and at those tournaments players also have the same equip as stated in the rules.

Something like that on official MMO servers would definately help pvp, atleast people should have a free pvp set when they start, which is slightly worse than the high end. But we also need a queue for healers, I end up having none in my teams, which is a big issue.

Everyone wanne dps in pvp, I dont get it why. I always tank or healer - at Tor I went for tanking, but I will also lvl a new healer soon, its just frustrating :s

Just did the same healing test on my sorc.

 

Flagged on fleet.

Unflagged on fleet.

In waiting area of a WZ.

 

All results came out the same.

 

Healing avarage stated on ability tooltip: 2836-2978

 

Biggest three heals per situation during 25 heals.

Flagged on fleet: 2980, 3000, 2983. Crit: 5200, 5208, 5194.

Unflagged on fleet: 2996, 3006, 3000. Crit: 5189, 5206, 5198.

Denova spawn: 2984, 2992, 3002. Crit: 5186, 5202, 5209.

 

All was tested with the exact same buffs during all tries.

 

Something tells me you need to be fighting to gain the expertise healing bonus, just like I said earlier.

Yeah, there is a debuff you get during pvp that reduces healing. If you attack, are attacked, buff or heal someone in combat you get it. It wears off once your out of combat for a bit (30 secs?).