Simply put Enrage timers on bosses are a terrible idea and transforms EVERY boss fight into a race against the clock. All it does is promote elitist attitudes of needing the "right gear" or the "right class" or "right spec" or even the "right attack rotation" in order to clear many bosses. For example my guild the other night easily cleared Karagga's Palace up until the Fabricator droid. Then everything hit the wall and we were forced to have to ask a melee DPS to sit out in favor of a ranged DPS who could solve the puzzle then pop off some cooldowns and go back to solving, and doing that alone let us get from barely hurting the boss to nearly killing him (in the end enrage still got us every time). There's plenty more examples as well, and I'm sure other players can share their own.

The main issue with enrage is that you have to be so tight in how you fight the boss, ensuring the utmost maximum damage per second, that if something goes wrong everyone wipes terribly. There's no room for error many times be it a lag spike, a bug, or just someone hitting the wrong key.

Now the biggest issue with the actual buff the boss gets is they go from being manageable on any difficulty, to most being able to 1 shot just about anyone at full health. It's infuriating to no extent to be fighting a boss, everything is fine or it's a tight fight, then suddenly seeing him hit everyone for 16k and being wiped. It's an absolutely cheap and lazy game design and needs some sort of a fix.

So as far as option it could be either removed entirely and boss fights themselves just made tougher by merit of their own mechanics, or what I think many would consider a fair compromise, enrage doesn't ever get to a point where the boss just insta-wipes everyone. Something where maybe (pending on how hard the boss already hits) they just slowly add to the damage they do in increments up to maybe double damage, so now the fight is tougher yes, but not impossible, so with actual skill and strategy we can still win. But as it is now, it's nothing more than a sad gear check and seeing if you min/max correctly.

Enrage is a terrible idea because it creates a false barrier for entry, thus excluding players from experiencing content. It also has more to do with gear than skill.

For a game that's allegedly a wow clone, you guys picked all the worst aspects of wow to clone.

Enrage is a terrible idea because it creates a false barrier for entry, thus excluding players from experiencing content. It also has more to do with gear than skill.

 

For a game that's allegedly a wow clone, you guys picked all the worst aspects of wow to clone.

The enrage timers aren't tuned tightly at all...and it absolutely doesn't have more to do with gear versus skill. Gear helps certainly, but smart players will know how they can put out more damage if they need after doing the fight a few times.

Enrage is a good idea, so you don't see a common raiding tactic of a tank and a bunch of healers to eventually just survive until it dies.

Enrage timers weed out auto-attacking baddies from getting Rakkata gear. So your complaining that you can't auto-attack your way into BiS gear? Holy baddie first world problems batman!

Enrages are fine. They make you have to not suck at the game. Something we should all be doing. Keep on it and you wont even know there are enrages.

Tanks need decent gear to be able to hold aggro and not take too much damage

Healer need decent gear in order to be able to keep the party up

The dps need.. well, with the enrage system they will need decent gear in order to kill the boss fast enough. Why shouldnt there be any pressure on the dps?

Simply put Enrage timers on bosses are a terrible idea and transforms EVERY boss fight into a race against the clock. All it does is promote elitist attitudes of needing the "right gear" or the "right class" or "right spec" or even the "right attack rotation" in order to clear many bosses. For example my guild the other night easily cleared Karagga's Palace up until the Fabricator droid. Then everything hit the wall and we were forced to have to ask a melee DPS to sit out in favor of a ranged DPS who could solve the puzzle then pop off some cooldowns and go back to solving, and doing that alone let us get from barely hurting the boss to nearly killing him (in the end enrage still got us every time). There's plenty more examples as well, and I'm sure other players can share their own.

 

The main issue with enrage is that you have to be so tight in how you fight the boss, ensuring the utmost maximum damage per second, that if something goes wrong everyone wipes terribly. There's no room for error many times be it a lag spike, a bug, or just someone hitting the wrong key.

 

Now the biggest issue with the actual buff the boss gets is they go from being manageable on any difficulty, to most being able to 1 shot just about anyone at full health. It's infuriating to no extent to be fighting a boss, everything is fine or it's a tight fight, then suddenly seeing him hit everyone for 16k and being wiped. It's an absolutely cheap and lazy game design and needs some sort of a fix.

 

So as far as option it could be either removed entirely and boss fights themselves just made tougher by merit of their own mechanics, or what I think many would consider a fair compromise, enrage doesn't ever get to a point where the boss just insta-wipes everyone. Something where maybe (pending on how hard the boss already hits) they just slowly add to the damage they do in increments up to maybe double damage, so now the fight is tougher yes, but not impossible, so with actual skill and strategy we can still win. But as it is now, it's nothing more than a sad gear check and seeing if you min/max correctly.

The enrage on fabricator is by no means a gear check or min/max check. Its a "are you doing the mechanics of this fight right?" check.

Solve the puzzle faster, and fire it off quicker so that the boss constantly takes more damage. in 16 you need 3 dedicated people to doing just that. In 8, we use 1 and have whatever offtank isnt tanking help.

If you dont put enrage timers theres no need for dps classes.

So all you do is basically 6 tanks 2 healers and u will never wipe...

I cleared 8-man NM (nightmare) and i dont see any reason to remove the enrages =o

It is so easy already no point for making it easier.

The enrage timers in this game are incredibly easy to beat.

If your wiping to the enrage then either:

1) Your gear is not good enough for the encounter

2) Your PLAYERS are not good enough for the encounter

It's an absolutely cheap and lazy game design and needs some sort of a fix.

+1 for that comment.

In addition, the enrage timer forces the group to have a certain composition. You MUST have two dps, and if you're a l88t skilled player you'll do a gear check before you enter the zone (the unskilled players do not do a gear check). What is wrong with two tanks, a healer, and a dps doing a hard mode? But no, that won't work, not with one dps, due to the enrage timer.

I was going to post some witty insult or something directed at the enrage timer QQ, but then I realized we're dealing with the I pay 14.99 crowd. So it's pretty much pointless to argue. Enrage timers are there to insure you know *** you're doing, and not taking 45 mins with 6 tanks 2 healers EZ moding the boss. Fabricator is less about dps and more about execution. If you don't have the puzzled solved by 3-4 stacks each time, you will wipe. That's like 30-40 seconds. With 2 people doing it, that's not even a question how how much movement it takes, it's can you play tic tact toe.

Obviously you guys didn't.

+1 for that comment.

 

In addition, the enrage timer forces the group to have a certain composition. You MUST have two dps, and if you're a l88t skilled player you'll do a gear check before you enter the zone (the unskilled players do not do a gear check). What is wrong with two tanks, a healer, and a dps doing a hard mode? But no, that won't work, not with one dps, due to the enrage timer.

i did bt (Black Talon) HM (Hard Mode) with a friend and 2 companions.

I did the last boss on Boarding Party HM with companion and 3 other players.

You can do a lot with companion... its just the players. OK, my companion is columi/rakata geared but oh well...

BTW It "forces" you to use the best composition..

The problem is just people dont think about what they are doing obviously... they just run in and try to nuke the boss which obviously doesnt work sometimes...

Some of the enrage timers have gone off and we have still killed them. some enrage and wipe.

Its a needed mechanic because if you take out the enrage timer you could just stack a heap of healers and take your time.

The enrage timers aren't tuned tightly at all...and it absolutely doesn't have more to do with gear versus skill. Gear helps certainly, but smart players will know how they can put out more damage if they need after doing the fight a few times.

 

Enrage is a good idea, so you don't see a common raiding tactic of a tank and a bunch of healers to eventually just survive until it dies.

Here's the thing.. who cares about stacking tanks and healers? Why is that intrinsically a bad thing? Designers already design a ton of fights that make it advantageous to bring Ranged over Melee and they don't have a problem with that.

There are plenty of design decisions that can be made to bring a challenge to the players without involving an Enrage. Enrage really is a short cut in an encounter design. Especially in this game where the different difficulty levels don't even add different mechanics. Same fights with a shorter enrage time and buffed dmg and hp.

All that being said.. the timers in this game really aren't troublesome. But the OP's overall point is valid in that it's a lazy design decision.

Enrage timers weed out auto-attacking baddies from getting Rakkata gear. So your complaining that you can't auto-attack your way into BiS gear? Holy baddie first world problems batman!

 

Enrages are fine. They make you have to not suck at the game. Something we should all be doing. Keep on it and you wont even know there are enrages.

There is no auto-attack function in this game... But only good players would know that

There certainly is a lot of half-arsed replies in this thread.

The OP never said that we should remove enrage timers and that's that. There needs to be more of a challenge, because as it stands most fights are easy as hell to figure out in terms of strategy, but yet you have this ridiculous enrage timer to factor in which just reeks of laziness.

The stupid enrage timers are the reason I have cancelled my sub. They're way too insanely harsh. And before you say "lol u ned 2 play betar and get good geer", I have my class rotation down to a T after reading and studying multiple guides, and have the best possible gear I can get without running HM's (full orange gear with lvl 50-51 epic mods), and yet I just CAN'T progress because PuG's keep wiping on these ridiculous enrages. I've attempted to run at least 6-7 HM instances and we ALWAYS wipe on the 1st or 2nd bosses. I can't go with my guild either because most haven't even hit 50, and i loathe PvP. So I'm pretty much stuck in a deadlock.

The OP was right in saying that it spawns rampant elitism that already made me die on the inside during the WoW days. I've already been turned down because all of the stupid gearchecks and my "gear was lacking" even though I can't get any better gear without running HM's - so how the hell am I supposed to get said gear?

Mind you, I WANT the game to be challenging, but not so much so that the game is practically cheating.

I agree the enrage timers current implementation is flawed.

But look at it this way. Right now there are literally zero 1shot mechanics in any of the operations. Soa sort of does, but not really. If there were no hard enrages people would just bring 4 healers and have next to no chance of wiping on anything.

There certainly is a lot of half-arsed replies in this thread.

 

The OP never said that we should remove enrage timers and that's that. There needs to be more of a challenge, because as it stands most fights are easy as hell to figure out in terms of strategy, but yet you have this ridiculous enrage timer to factor in which just reeks of laziness.

 

The stupid enrage timers are the reason I have cancelled my sub. They're way too insanely harsh. And before you say "lol u ned 2 play betar and get good geer", I have my class rotation down to a T after reading and studying multiple guides, and have the best possible gear I can get without running HM's (full orange gear with lvl 50-51 epic mods), and yet I just CAN'T progress because PuG's keep wiping on these ridiculous enrages. I've attempted to run at least 6-7 HM instances and we ALWAYS wipe on the 1st or 2nd bosses. I can't go with my guild either because most haven't even hit 50, and i loathe PvP. So I'm pretty much stuck in a deadlock.

 

The OP was right in saying that it spawns rampant elitism that already made me die on the inside during the WoW days. I've already been turned down because all of the stupid gearchecks and my "gear was lacking" even though I can't get any better gear without running HM's - so how the hell am I supposed to get said gear?

 

Mind you, I WANT the game to be challenging, but not so much so that the game is practically cheating.

I just dont understand this. I'm not going to say learn to play because thats not constructive, but there has to be something wrong if you are hitting enrages in all the Hard Modes you participate in. Either the day I dinged 50 or the day after I was running HM BT without any issues. The last boss was hitting enrage I believe but we always manage to kill her before the last person got one shotted. All I did before running HM's was finish my Corellia missions and spent the commendations on some better gear than my leveling gear. Then I proceeded to do some dailies on Ilum and buy some armoring and a hilt from the vendor out there for daily commendations. From there me and some other people with equivalent gear started running Hard Mode FP's beginning with HM BT and havent had any trouble since. Seriously there are plenty of places outside of HM's to upgrade your gear. Will it take a couple of days of doing dailies? Yes. But what did you expect, to ding 50 and jump right into HM's? I'm sure some people will say they did this, but frankly it isnt true unless you were being carried. Another thing I'll point out, if you run some HM FP's and dont clear them the first time, so what? At least u had a chance to get better gear from some of the bosses and you can try to clear again the next day. I just think some people are impatient and feel they should be carried or have things handed to them.

Here's the thing.. who cares about stacking tanks and healers? Why is that intrinsically a bad thing? Designers already design a ton of fights that make it advantageous to bring Ranged over Melee and they don't have a problem with that.

 

There are plenty of design decisions that can be made to bring a challenge to the players without involving an Enrage. Enrage really is a short cut in an encounter design. Especially in this game where the different difficulty levels don't even add different mechanics. Same fights with a shorter enrage time and buffed dmg and hp.

 

 

All that being said.. the timers in this game really aren't troublesome. But the OP's overall point is valid in that it's a lazy design decision.

No there isn't. You need some sort of enrage, otherwise it wouldn't matter how sloppy you were on the encounter as you could just outlast it. The enrage timers in this game aren't even that bad, not to mention most, if not all of them simply give the boss 200% damage. For a lot of encounters that doesn't even mean an instant wipe, you can still fight through it, it just makes it more difficult.

You need some sort of mechanic to punish sloppy play. You can't take too long for a boss, otherwise people would just stack 1 tank, 7 healers, or whatever ridiculous combination you can think of and outlast every single fight with little to no effort. It is unfortunately a needed but very simple approach to a very big problem. Call it lazy or whatever you want but regardless, it is necessary. Unless you can come up with a good solution to solve that very big problem I wouldn't complain.

Enrage times are great, it keeps bad players out of raids. Just because its there doesn't mean everyone should be able to clear it. Even the hard mode enrage timers can be met with only 2 good DPS in an 8m raid.

The people who do not want enrage timers are the people who lack the skill to play well enough to beat them. Its not about gear its about playing your class correctly.

Wait, this game has enrage timers? I seriously haven't encountered one ... ever ... not even once. We've cleared every HM FP repeatedly and never seen one. Ever. Not even early on when we were running them in blues/moddable 50 gear. We never even bothered to run False Emp or Kaon on normal and just went straight to hard and cleared it first shot without any difficulty. I really just don't understand how people can run into enrage issues unless people are just simply not playing well.

This is one reason we really need some form of damage meter. I'd be ragingly upset if I pugged something and we wiped to an enrage timer and I couldn't see which DPS was slacking off.

And just before I hear this bad excuse again, no being melee DPS doesn't mean you hit enrage timers either. I play a Mara and while I agree most mechanics are biased against us as melee it's still never been a factor that caused us to hit enrage.

In short ... l2p. : /

saying it's not about gear is just silly,

yes, there's a lot of skill involved, but go beat nightmare bonethrasher with level 40 greens -_-