As a guild leader and raid leader of a hardcore 5/5NM PvE

i stoped reading here.

your hardcore guild is only 5/5 in normal mode???????

we are 6/10 HM and only raid 3 days a week.

i stoped reading here.

 

your hardcore guild is only 5/5 in normal mode???????

 

we are 6/10 HM and only raid 3 days a week.

Anyone raiding right now is hardcore in my opinion. I have been playing the game way too much and am only 48. Some of us have careers and friends.

Up to this point, Bioware has taken the approach of satisfying the larger (casual gamer) market segment for SWTOR in regards to DPS Meters. The casual player does not want to be compared to elitists on a regular basis and be seen as a 'noob' or called out for sustaining low dps. Simply put, this is an understandable move; however, ultimately the pressure from the more hardcore 1-5% will become overwhelming and a compromise will need to be achieved.

 

As a guild leader and raid leader of a hardcore 5/5NM PvE guild I can develop a general idea of who is pulling their weight in raids. Indeed it is easy to track simple frequency statistics such as "who eats what when/where" in a fight - paper+pencil table ftw! One thing I would like is a better understanding of who has their rotation down/ how their dps compares overall to the guild. I know people dont enjoy the pressure (unless hardcore gamers) of constantly pushing meters on ops, but could we atleast get a "target dummy" where I can essentially have a member go to test their dps (where i can go to test my dps) and see how best to optimize it given patch changes etc. All I'm asking for is a dummy where i can go , unload for 3min and get some basic statistics reported in a similar to warzone report fashion - ie. dps, hps, largest heal, average crit dmg, ability break(ideal of dmg/crit). In addition, it would be kinda cool to have a dummy that hits you (but while in say melee range (in a city environment) you are chain healed) for reporting defensive statistics.

 

Leading further into this: Combat Logs- Problem with them is, someone can obtain a lot of information about who eats what, dps etc. if they really wanted to- takes a lot more effort. However, all i would like in this sense is just a report thats like

 

Baliso has died- Final (Death) Blow : Annihilator's Storm Barrage- 7345 Damage (2002) Overkill.

 

This allows a raid member to know their cause of death and fix it next run. It also lets me know on fights like Bone in KP why a member suddenly just drops to a random 30k mechanic (on full rakata tank?).

 

Hope this gets taken into consideration. Let me know what you guys think!

 

Cheers,

 

Baliso

Anchorhead

in the end all that the previous couple of MMO games that have been released were just too quick to release...too many bugs and not enough support for big ticket items. Companies are just releasing(what i consider) paid beta versions of the game(bf3 - who are already making a bf4 lulz and warhammer online are the 2 big ones i can think of) already.

Until the majority of the bugs can be fixed i wont take this game TOO super serious....its going to take quite a few months for them to get to the point where anyone should really take this game serious. Id say wait till the end of summer before really judging this game for hardcore players...and if you happen to stick it out...props to you! Even with the bugs the game for me is still rather enjoyable.

Anyone raiding right now is hardcore in my opinion. I have been playing the game way too much and am only 48. Some of us have careers and friends.

LAWL

i work 8-9 hours and go to school and can still pull raids. don't throw the "get a life" put down at me.

you can get 1-50 in 19 hours played and that is watching every cut scene. and lvling your profession at the same time.

LAWL

 

i work 8-9 hours and go to school and can still pull raids. don't throw the "get a life" put down at me.

 

you can get 1-50 in 19 hours played and that is watching every cut scene. and lvling your profession at the same time.

Someone is in denial and likes to exaggerate

+1 OP

Stopped reading afterwards

As is always done in market segmentation/classification , I am defining hardcore vs casuals in a way that stereotypes the typical behaviours and 'interests' of said group. There are always outliers or people that dont fit a particular schema or stereotype. But this classification is used for general comparison purposes. And I use it because I can guarantee you it is similar to how Bioware views their customer market segments.

1. How can you guarantee this? Do you work for them or have insider knowledge? Don't answer, we already know the answer.

2. Market segmentation doesn't use stereotypes, they use statistics. They are 2 very very different things.

There's no reason for Bioware to spend development resources on a DPS meter, threat meter, etc. After seven years, WoW still doesn't have these integrated into the game by Blizzard. These are all mods by the community.

Blizzard has said they've not added a damage meter to their standard UI on purpose because it's too easy to misinterpret. Their example for why they haven't was on healing meters: Druids have a raid cooldown that is pure healing, but the other healers have damage reductions. The effect is essentially the same, the raid can live through a raidwide burst of damage, but on a meter a druid would place significantly higher in heals done. This would lead to claims that druids were overpowered compared to the others (which in fact did happen), but at least without their own endorsed meter, Blizzard can say "that's not information we provide and we're not going to take action on it since we can't verify it". Once they provide the information themselves, they have to provide explanations and own up to the information provided, but until then they can wave it off.

I don't know that their argument is all that valid, but it is somewhat understandable given how much debate there is over damage meters and their effects. That does not excuse Bioware, however, for giving us nothing at all in this regard.

Great Ideas.

Meters are important in a raiding situation. In Karaggas on 16 man we had me and 2 other DPS on the powertech guy (in the 2 boss encounter) and the rest on the healer boss.

We were only 5% behind in health. With Meters we could find out why, we could see who needs to work on their damage, who is just slacking and shouldn't be in raid and so on.

We know that 3 DPS shouldn't be doing almost as much damage as the other 7 (we ran 2 tanks 4 heals lol), but we don't know why it's happening, if it's one certain class that's just flat out OP, or multiple people underperforming or what.

Meters fix this.

Anyone raiding right now is hardcore in my opinion. I have been playing the game way too much and am only 48. Some of us have careers and friends.

NM = Nightmare Mode , sorry not Normal Mode.

Anyone raiding right now is hardcore in my opinion. I have been playing the game way too much and am only 48. Some of us have careers and friends.

Really? is like 2 hours a day too much?

Most casual people play as much if not more than hardcore players - they just don't push content like the "hardcore" does.

I play quite a bit, I am raiding hard and nightmare modes, I have friends, I support my family, I spend time with my wife and son.

This game is super easy to level in, I hit 50 the day after christmas (didn't even play on christmas eve/christmas day. And i was not "spacebarring" I enjoyed my bounty hunter story quite a bit.

1. How can you guarantee this? Do you work for them or have insider knowledge? Don't answer, we already know the answer.

 

2. Market segmentation doesn't use stereotypes, they use statistics. They are 2 very very different things.

1. Never said it was for "sure", but this is how it would 'typically' be done.

2. They use frequency stats which reflect behaviours which form a schema which is essentially a stereotype or classification of a particular demographic of customer.

3. Im not here to argue marketing practices, the point of casual/hardcore classifications was to show there is a distinction in the general interests of both groups. Regardless. if this is not the reason for Bioware to hold back DPS meters than I am not sure what is . Development of recording measures has already occured and they are already in PVP. So unless you can come up with a better reason , i'm sticking to this one.

4. This post was made to highlight a potential idea that could be a great compromise for Bioware to satisfy its entire customer base; including myself.

I'm not here to argue, i'm just posting what i believe to be a good idea. So if you want to argue about why you think a death count or a meter is a good or bad idea as it pertains to the recommendation made here please feel free to post your feedback.

Cheers,

Baliso

I stopped reading there.

I didn't read anything. what are we talking about?

Good thread, great ideas and reasonably argued.

These things may not be important on normal difficulty, but in NM it will be pretty damn frustrating to not really know why you're constantly wiping and not be able to narrow it down.

Keep it up OP

As a maintank and part operation leader, I have yet to come to the point where I feel like I need a training dummy or dps metres, I know just from the feel and doing hm's with my raid members who dish out the most dps etc.. It's common sense really, and it's just about communicating with your operation members and knowing them, reminding them to use their skills etc, asking what spec they have, whatever it is.

I am not against a training dummy or a combat log or a dps meter, but there has been enough threads about this already and believe bioware already officially announced that they are gonna do something about it?

I will say that I am confident that I will clear all these operations without having to use these measuring tools as you so profoundly think is a necessity..

As a maintank and part operation leader, I have yet to come to the point where I feel like I need a training dummy or dps metres, I know just from the feel and doing hm's with my raid members who dish out the most dps etc.. It's common sense really, and it's just about communicating with your operation members and knowing them, reminding them to use their skills etc, asking what spec they have, whatever it is.

 

I am not against a training dummy or a combat log or a dps meter, but there has been enough threads about this already and believe bioware already officially announced that they are gonna do something about it?

 

I will say that I am confident that I will clear all these operations without having to use these measuring tools as you so profoundly think is a necessity..

It is more a want than a need. I believe it will become needed for sure if they make nightmare modes as hard as they truly should be. However, I can say for sure, given the extreme ease of normal mode ie. faceroll my way through the instance if i wanted to, theres no need for meters. Meters are important to me because I strive in games to constantly improve myself and in order to do that I need to ensure I am always maximizing my dps while mitigating raid damaging tactics and surviving. That being said I like to 'test' specs and rotations and see how much changes from patch notes impact my class /rotation etc. It is simple something I really enjoy, and I know a lot of others (not just hardcore players) do as well.

I agree, and as an elitist gamer as well as a market strategist I can understand both sides of the coin on the issue of addons and meters. I for one, am not asking for addons, I am not a avid fan of addons as they open the game to increased botting, mindless gameplay etc; however, at this point I am looking for bioware to make some kind of statement highlighting where this issue is going (not a "were looking into it") and come to some form of compromise. [see original post] .

maybe people missed this by george. The we agree with those requests and working on "various" ways etc.... Seems pretty specific.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443

"Finally, I'd like to acknowledge, again, that we do understand that there is a desire for players to get more detailed information what happens to their character in combat. We agree with those requests and are working on various ways to, optionally, get more detailed data on your combat performance.

Thanks for your feedback!

-- Georg

Georg "Observer" Zoeller

Principal Lead Combat Designer "

post was a jan 10 date.

As a casual gamer I would LOVE to have a dps/threat meter. I still want to become a good player of my class when I do get the chance to run higher content. I can't see why anyone would not want to. I understand the comparison issue that has been brought up but if anyone makes fun of you online about how badly you push buttons then just /ignore them.

This casual gamer thinks it is a great idea and welcomes it.