Remember that FP on Imp side? You actually needed 4 people or 3 ppl + 1 companion to kick Revan's a**. Second time, in SoR, you need Marr, Satele, Lana,Theron,Shae, yourself + 1 companion to bring Revan down. Compare this to fighting Vaylin on Odessen, where you and a companion managed to defeat her.

So, in a match between them, who would win?

Based on how powerful we're told they are? Vaylin. Based on how powerful they're shown to be? Revan.

Remember that FP on Imp side? You actually needed 4 people or 3 ppl + 1 companion to kick Revan's a**. Second time, in SoR, you need Marr, Satele, Lana,Theron,Shae, yourself + 1 companion to bring Revan down. Compare this to fighting Vaylin on Odessen, where you and a companion managed to defeat her.

So, in a match between them, who would win?

 

SPOILERS LONG,

 

 

Most of Vaylin's power had been caged away for the majority of her life. She barely had any chance to harness it and neither train it, based on the pace of the story. This is also due to her impulsive, superiority complex nature. The PC was able to defeat her on Odessen by being empowered by Valkorion's spirit inside of them, the training used against Arcann (if it is still relevant here), and the fact she wasn't at her full height of her potentional. She rushed onto Odessen and invaded without proper planning just to end her father, her mother, her brother (if you went light side on that) and she believed she was practically invincible. She failed. Being not at the full height of her potentional along with the other previous reasons, explain why is why Vaylin was easier to beat than Revan, besides when it comes to game mechanics.

On the other hand, Revan had more experience in the force and in battle, even Revan Reborn (though he had been split and that would mean you are not as strong as you were before.) If the PC had been infused with Valkorion's spirit then at that point, he would have been able to crush Revan. If you didn't have his spirit, Vaylin would more than likely have been able to defeat the PC unless they brought a powerful force group of friends (that'd be a stretch depending on who they were.)

We don't know the full down-pour of most of Vaylin's power being locked away, but she was still incredibly powerful and a lot of power was returning to her during the first few chapters of KOFTE. However, she didn't wield her power responsibly and while it may be affective at one point, in the long run it would be rash and it would be terrible because she wouldn't be able to use it to the best of her ability. She would also be using it for evil and not good.

Thus because of this, Revan would be able to defeat Vaylin, for now. This is unless she explored more of her powers trained them, and learned more techniques. Her evil would be another reason why she would fail in the long run.

 

Make up your mind for yourself on this. I hope this was insightful to look into. I'd suggest looking up Wookiepedia, SWTOR Wiki articles, and forum posts on both Vaylin & Revan to help you make your choice and decision on who would win and who is more impressive Also, I'd suggest reading the Revan novel if you want some extra reading but if you want it more in a real book form. Thank you. I'm glad I could help.

Edited March 20, 2018 by ethanredmace

Based on how powerful we're told they are? Vaylin. Based on how powerful they're shown to be? Revan.

 

That's exactly what i thought too

(Biased)

 

Vaylin - I'll be her companion fighting Revan

 

Then again ... thinking about it ... both were tortured by the Emperor, I wouldn't be surprised if these two ended up forming their own alliance of sorts.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Paulsutherland

Really hard to say. One the one hand Vaylin at her prime (after removing the conditioning) is leagues above Revan in power ( keep in mind that the Sith emperor himself deemed it a good idea to limit her power while he was perfectly content to jut leave Revan at full power running around and even use him in his schemes). But she is also way more unhinged and crazy than Revan was even at his worst and her strategic thinking is severly lacking at times. So Revan might actually come out on top due to being able to use his own lesser power much more efficient than her.

Really hard to say. One the one hand Vaylin at her prime (after removing the conditioning) is leagues above Revan in power

 

Warning: This is one of a plethora of things that annoy me with Vaylin's story. I will try to reign it in.

 

I don't know if I can agree. I completely agree that it should have been true. It would make the whole thing less, we'll say for now, odd. But their displays of power are roughly equivalent, and Revan actually pinned multiple powerful Force users and several others in place while Vaylin couldn't do the same for three, but just knocked two of them down. Yes, we're shown her murdering multiple Knights at once and had some nameless person say, "I've never seen such power", but she never actually displays anything during the fight that Revan didn't do something of similar power to, so I have to consider that telling, not showing. The bubbling up and cracking the wall was a neat trick, but this ultimate display of power was only during a cutscene, and, even then, the Outlander just walks up and impales or shoots her, and it appears the implication is that this is done without Valkorion's help (I like to think it was with his help, and in fact with him controlling the Outlander, it makes more sense, but I saw nothing to say that). The only reason I ever had trouble beating her in that scene was because there was a cliff nearby to be blown off, and it's never taken as long as Revan.

 

TL;DR version: Vaylin's ultimate displays of power were in cutscenes, and even then didn't appear to really be any more than Revan displayed during the actual fight.

 

That's what I mean when I say "what we were told" vs. "what we were shown": Revan, by himself, held off the finest of the Republic and Empire, Vaylin with a small horde of Knights fell to three. She was never really shown to be powerful except in cut-scenes, lost every time she was put up against anyone of importance unless they were pre-defeated (juxtaposed with Arcann impaling you if you don't ask Dad for help), and while she might be clever at times, ultimately failed because she fell for, "I double dog dare you to come down here" rather than just bombing them all out of existence. That we are in full agreement on, her instability and lack of experience make her vulnerable. I just don't know that she was ever shown to be more powerful in any meaningful way.

Edited March 17, 2018 by gamephil

TL;DR version: Vaylin's ultimate displays of power were in cutscenes, and even then didn't appear to really be any more than Revan displayed during the actual fight.

 

Thats not how it works. As a rule of thumb cutscenes usually portray what actually happens storywise and not the gameplay. Unless you want to believe that your character actually gets hit into the face with missiles every other fight and their companion just constantly throws healing- force/bacta at them to miracolously keep them without a scratch.

 

And we are clearly shown and told in cutscenes, dialogue with characters and background media that Vaylin is far more powerful then Revan. In the betrayed trailer she accidentially crushes multiple knights at once to death. She also kills multiple knights + almost her entire bridge crew at once in KotET. Then proceeds to blow up the facility on Nathema with the froce from her flagship in space no less. And as you mentioned she actually manages to make sturdy walls crack with her sheer force power.

Revan never shows a feat like any of these in comparison unless you count that minigame during his Solo fight in SOR where he makes all the NPCs twirl around in the air and you have to collect foce bubbles. But that is more likely just a game mechanic that forces to player to do something during this fight instead of just waiting til the NPCs finish Revan off on their own.

Thats not how it works. As a rule of thumb cutscenes usually portray what actually happens storywise and not the gameplay. Unless you want to believe that your character actually gets hit into the face with missiles every other fight and their companion just constantly throws healing- force/bacta at them to miracolously keep them without a scratch.

 

I can't agree, I think that's exactly how it works: if she can't use those powers when it's actually relevant, it's just telling, not showing. That was the entirety of what I was saying: they told us she was powerful, they showed us he was. I think that's relevant, since what they told us can be lies and unreliable narration.

 

The cut scenes help a bit, but even with them: she grabs several minor characters and kills them, bubbles up and knocks some people around and cracks a wall. In Revan's final fight, he grabs several people, the best of the best, and renders them helpless, and displays powers that appear to me to be the equivalent of both the bubble and the wind. And, before that final display of her power, we had already beaten her troops and driven her to her hands and knees, moaning in pain. The main evidence of her being this unsurpassed powerhouse is Valkorion's word, and he lies, and some comments from others, including Lana, that I'm not sure we should believe, either..

 

I want her to be that powerful. It makes the whole thing better. I just have trouble seeing her that way because of the set up. I did like her walking through the time stop, though. Good times. I kind of think the idea was that her power was still growing since freeing herself, and then it was over.

 

I do appreciate that you referred to the arena as "accidentally", regardless of this mostly trivial disagreement, though.

Edited March 17, 2018 by gamephil

She's supposed to be that powerful. We can never trust game mechanics, unless it's a matter of non force using characters trying to justify they're so powerful compared to force using ones

She's supposed to be that powerful. We can never trust game mechanics, unless it's a matter of non force using characters trying to justify they're so powerful compared to force using ones

 

Edit: Yeah, that's fair, I should not have said the cut scenes are irrelevant. I still don't think that characters talking about a given power level should count, but only demonstrated power. Dialog can be lies or unreliable narrator, and in this game, I think even the codex can be suspect, though I don't think it should be. Based on demonstrated power, I think SOR Revan matches up pretty well to Vaylin, or even exceeds her. Based on dialog and codex entries, he certainly doesn't, but considering that the Outlander doesn't, either, and still won, I think it goes to Revan.

Edited March 17, 2018 by gamephil

Edit: Yeah, that's fair, I should not have said the cut scenes are irrelevant. I still don't think that characters talking about a given power level should count, but only demonstrated power. Dialog can be lies or unreliable narrator, and in this game, I think even the codex can be suspect, though I don't think it should be. Based on demonstrated power, I think SOR Revan matches up pretty well to Vaylin, or even exceeds her. Based on dialog and codex entries, he certainly doesn't, but considering that the Outlander doesn't, either, and still won, I think it goes to Revan.

 

I can't say I like it myself. Nothing worse that kicking the *** of the enemy, going untouched or practically untouched and then the cut scene goes "Oh look! You're overpowered and decimated!"

all the cool stuff that happens when its referenced by other people.

 

* Vaylin taking down all of Senya's Knights single handily

*

 

So when she wants to focus, she could be deadly if not more so than Revan.

all the cool stuff that happens when its referenced by other people.

 

* Vaylin taking down all of Senya's Knights single handily

*

 

So when she wants to focus, she could be deadly if not more so than Revan.

 

Yeah, I guess I was just saying that it would have meant more seeing that Vaylin rather than being told about her. Though I still don't think the defeat of Senya's Knights puts her above Revan, but that second one might.

I think Chapter VII KOTET Vaylin would've definitely lost to both versions of Revan, but after she breaks free? I think even Revan Reborn would have a tough time handling it, Vaylin's power was enough to put pause on The Emperor himself. The biggest issue is Revan has the tactical mind Vaylin doesn't so it's very possible he could have a force ritual or dueling techniques she would not be aware of and couldn't defend herself with just brute force so I think it depends if Vaylin would just try to overwhelm Revan with sheer force or if she'd make a smart use of her powers.

I think Chapter VII KOTET Vaylin would've definitely lost to both versions of Revan, but after she breaks free? I think even Revan Reborn would have a tough time handling it, Vaylin's power was enough to put pause on The Emperor himself. The biggest issue is Revan has the tactical mind Vaylin doesn't so it's very possible he could have a force ritual or dueling techniques she would not be aware of and couldn't defend herself with just brute force so I think it depends if Vaylin would just try to overwhelm Revan with sheer force or if she'd make a smart use of her powers.

 

I think you might be right about the dueling techiques : in the FP, Revan uses just one lightsaber and switches fast from marauder skills to sorcerer then to jedi sage skills ( telekinetics) .

In SoR, Revan uses two lighsabers and again, some abilities from all sith/jedi classes plus grapple, plus pinning down everyone.

This means he actually mastered both sides of the force and studied more that one class, possibly all four.

 

Have you seen Vaylin doing something like that? Yes, she can too use abilities from more than one class aka telekinetics, lightning, force push and some basic juggernaut skills, but her combat technique is chaotic and sloppy. Why? Because she has no combat or mental training whatsoever, torture and electrocution on Nathema cannot be considered "training".

 

Mental training is mentioned twice by Lana Beniko, first on Ziost when she says the Emperor gave up on taking over her body because she prepared her defenses ( GO AWAY, LITTLE SITH ! )and second time on Zakuul, while force choking a knight aka " you knights were never taught to properly channel your anger".

Do we have any proof on Vaylin actually having any mental training? Nope. Her only advantage is her huge power, but even that power is not enough against an experienced warrior with a calculated mind and extensive training.

If she can focus long enough without giving into her bloodlust, probably Vaylin.