While i preferr fluidic gameplay one would still ask.

If you just observe cooldowns in combat why do any nice graphics at all. Im beginning to understand a bit how this would be better version of gameplay for new PVP experience. In WOW i only do pvp for some honor to get nice equipment on the way up. I dont like its current unbalanced fast pace pvp where better geared people can 1-shot you to death and you dont have 0.1 sec time to react. In other hand i enjoy AION semi-fast paced PVP where battle between 2 may take minutes instead of stupid few seconds that it takes in WOW. WOW could also use better animatios especially on vanilla races since most of them look pretty stupid at times.

Still if animation are the way to see when its time to activate next ability, they should at least work all the time. When char stands still between attacks that should connect fluidicly together it just looks stupid and makes combat feel pretty clumpy. All in all animations seem to be too slow at times since they dont last the time of gcd, if animation is the mark where to push next button it must last until GCD has gone or GCD should not exist at all but instead only counter before next ability would be when animation stops. Also hhaving longer animations than GCD is as bad since it makes people who observe GCD like me hit button too early and wonder why nothing happens. Abilities that have animation longer than GCD should then have cast time that lasts as long as GCD which by the way also is why wow abilities seem so fluidic. Many spells have cast-times that last about as long as its animation .

I've come to the conclusion that this threat is about turning this game in to wow. to prove me wrong this is what i would like for xcore to do: clearly set the issues of this threat on the first page as you did in some previous post.

example:

1. global cool down triggers twice

2. cast bar not in sync with spell effect(personal note: don't know what to do about this)

etc.

Yeah, see this is an example of how bioware intended combat to work, nice and slow paced.

 

Bioware designed combat so you press a button once, then wait for animation to end ( or almost end) and then press your next action. Nice and slow paced.

 

If you press a button during animation too soon, or press a button more then once, bioware punishes you with lag and unresponsive controls, cause you are not playing the game as intended by bioware.

 

Bioware just needs to make an official statement that combat is turn based, and they need to remove the GCD and off GCd abilities and tell players to just watch the animations, and play off of animations.

 

If you want a fast paced action game, SWTOR is not for you, this should be clearl and obvious by now to anyone who has followed this thread.

If they want the skill cooldown to be animation based then they need to balance the skills based on the Animations and not the GCD. Anyone who plays something with fast animations like a Merc is gonna blow someone with slow animations like a Sniper out of the water.

I guess I shouldn't care much since my class' build has very little impact from the animation delay, just the glitches where sometimes your cast time skills get locked or your channels glitch out. My actual attacks are all shorter than the GCD animation wise so spamming them is no problem at all.

While i preferr fluidic gameplay one would still ask.

 

If you just observe cooldowns in combat why do any nice graphics at all. Im beginning to understand a bit how this would be better version of gameplay for new PVP experience. In WOW i only do pvp for some honor to get nice equipment on the way up. I dont like its current unbalanced fast pace pvp where better geared people can 1-shot you to death and you dont have 0.1 sec time to react. In other hand i enjoy AION semi-fast paced PVP where battle between 2 may take minutes instead of stupid few seconds that it takes in WOW. WOW could also use better animatios especially on vanilla races since most of them look pretty stupid at times.

 

Still if animation are the way to see when its time to activate next ability, they should at least work all the time. When char stands still between attacks that should connect fluidicly together it just looks stupid and makes combat feel pretty clumpy. All in all animations seem to be too slow at times since they dont last the time of gcd, if animation is the mark where to push next button it must last until GCD has gone or GCD should not exist at all but instead only counter before next ability would be when animation stops. Also hhaving longer animations than GCD is as bad since it makes people who observe GCD like me hit button too early and wonder why nothing happens. Abilities that have animation longer than GCD should then have cast time that lasts as long as GCD which by the way also is why wow abilities seem so fluidic. Many spells have cast-times that last about as long as its animation .

Yeah, this is the main problem, the GCD ( and off GCD abilities) exist. Bioware does not want fast paced action in game. Biowae wants slow turn based combat, so you can watch the animations and slowly press 1 button at a time, as animations end.

Bioware has implemented a system of punishment for players who press buttons to fast, or players who try to use abilities when a castbar ends or when the GCD timer ends, as opposed to waiting for animations to end.

I think as players, we need to accept the combat for what it is, bioware does not consider combat broke, so they are not going to fix it.

People have been reporting these issues for years , in beta. And yet they just now give vague replies of " were looking into it" It should be clear to everyone all they are lookign into is a way to explain the combat system while keeping as many subs as possible

If they want the skill cooldown to be animation based then they need to balance the skills based on the Animations and not the GCD. Anyone who plays something with fast animations like a Merc is gonna blow someone with slow animations like a Sniper out of the water.

 

I guess I shouldn't care much since my class' build has very little impact from the animation delay, just the glitches where sometimes your cast time skills get locked or your channels glitch out. My actual attacks are all shorter than the GCD animation wise so spamming them is no problem at all.

PVP in this game is a side event, like space combat. They are not going to balance it.

I've come to the conclusion that this threat is about turning this game in to wow. to prove me wrong this is what i would like for xcore to do: clearly set the issues of this threat on the first page as you did in some previous post.

 

example:

 

1. global cool down triggers twice

2. cast bar not in sync with spell effect(personal note: don't know what to do about this)

etc.

This has been done. This has nothing top do with wow other then to compare smooth interface over this one. Lots of video's posted as well. BW has already started to look into it. This is still a problem, you can belive it or not. Did I mention BW is looking into it? Yeah its real.

I love that you added a 'professional gamers standpoint' like they're expierence makes a big difference to us all. lol, even reading how TOR "copied" wow with trinkets, the name warzones and tenacity is just really sad.

Pro gamers should better.

I

I myself have great issue with delays and then again on other day or time i dont. Sometimes game works just fine without any delays and responsiveness is great. Next i may change character and ability lag hits me to the face and gets horrible to play. Then again that lagging char may next day work just fine but another may have this issue. One day no char of mine has issues and some day they jave.

I agree with this. The more I play, the more I find this to be the case - it's not a problem with the system or the design, it's with uneven implementation somehow. Sometimes the combat is sweet and "in the pocket", other times there's definitely a sluggishness there.

It seems to me that there's a distinction here between people who simply want to play WoW gameplay dressed up in Star Wars graphics, and people who are willing to give a slightly different combat style a chance.

See, for me, the WoW style of animation clipping - I actually hated that. And part of the reason why I hated that was part of the reason I couldn't get into WoW, despite realising that it's a tremendously well-made product. It made the characters sort of "cheap". It was sort of ok given the overall cartoonish feel - it made the characters light-hearted and un-serious. But you can't have that same attitude to Star Wars characters - the overall fell of the game has to be more "serious", more "epic". At the end of the day, WoW's system is not the be-all-and-end all of combat styles, it's just something that some people have gotten used to. (And before anybody gives it the "But us competitive players made WoW successful!" malarkey, may I remind them of the famous statistic that the vast majority of WoW's players never get beyond lvl 35 )

I much prefer the approach in SWTOR where the animations are more integrated with the feel of combat, where I'm actually enjoying the animations and the "show" on the screen, and what the character is visibly doing feels more integrated with my button pressing.

That is ... when it works like that. And it most definitely doesn't work so sweetly all the time, and that most definitely is a problem.

PVP in this game is a side event, like space combat. They are not going to balance it.

Who is talking about PvP? I mean DPS in general. As long as I can perform my abilities at GCD and another class cannot they will never ever be nearly as good as me.

I am fortunate that my animations are quick, I can spam my abilities all at GCD speeds no problem.

Instant cast means when it casts - its instant, so no cast bar, so no need to stand still while casting it. Does it say "as soon as you press this button the buff is applied and the animation following it is just for show" in the tooltip? It still fits the description for "instant cast". The buff lining up with the animation is broken how exactly? Can you still use another ability immediately after the invoked GCD is over?

 

If you are pressing a button and committing 1.5 seconds of GCD - then explain how it matters if the damage/buff is applied in the beginning or the end of the 1.5 seconds - since you keep the beneficial mobility associated with the "instant" portion of the ability.

The intent of this process is to show the delay between you (the user hitting the button) and when the system applies the instant cast. We all want instant response; we want to see instant casts apply "exactly" when I hit the button for it not a split second later. Wow is another example of the perfection of this response system. When you used an instant ability it was applied "instantly" there was no delay between pushing the button and when the buff is applied.

PVP in this game is a side event, like space combat. They are not going to balance it.

Are you serious?

PVP should not be considered a side event. Your post is plain stupid.

This has been done. This has nothing top do with wow other then to compare smooth interface over this one. Lots of video's posted as well. BW has already started to look into it. This is still a problem, you can belive it or not. Did I mention BW is looking into it? Yeah its real.

When was the last time you read the first post? There is no such list that I am asking for.

Who is talking about PvP? I mean DPS in general. As long as I can perform my abilities at GCD and another class cannot they will never ever be nearly as good as me.

 

I am fortunate that my animations are quick, I can spam my abilities all at GCD speeds no problem.

Indeed. I can guarantee that the way animations work in relation to the GCD is easily holding down my DPS. It's speculation but I'd say it's at least 30-40% less than I could do if I could hit each button as soon as it was up.

I don't know where this came from to give credit but it is perfect for an understanding on this issue:

http://i.imgur.com/oGeam.png

Yeah, see this is an example of how bioware intended combat to work, nice and slow paced.

 

Bioware designed combat so you press a button once, then wait for animation to end ( or almost end) and then press your next action. Nice and slow paced.

 

If you press a button during animation too soon, or press a button more then once, bioware punishes you with lag and unresponsive controls, cause you are not playing the game as intended by bioware.

 

Bioware just needs to make an official statement that combat is turn based, and they need to remove the GCD and off GCd abilities and tell players to just watch the animations, and play off of animations.

 

If you want a fast paced action game, SWTOR is not for you, this should be clearl and obvious by now to anyone who has followed this thread.

Are you serious??? That is how they made Disney's Toontown online (you would love it)nice and slow and NO pvp!

Your post blows my mind .... just nonsense! Any MMO made today needs to be competative in PVP and PVE, and this can not be done watching animation.

GET REAL!

The intent of this process is to show the delay between you (the user hitting the button) and when the system applies the instant cast. We all want instant response; we want to see instant casts apply "exactly" when I hit the button for it not a split second later. Wow is another example of the perfection of this response system. When you used an instant ability it was applied "instantly" there was no delay between pushing the button and when the buff is applied.

I personally dont see a problem with the animation carrying out in instant attack before damage is applied or whatever, as long as the animation for it starts the exact same time you hit the button...

PVP in this game is a side event, like space combat. They are not going to balance it.

PVP is a side event ....

I personally dont see a problem with the animation carrying out in instant attack before damage is applied or whatever, as long as the animation for it starts the exact same time you hit the button...

I actually prefer it this way as it allows me to have an Explosive Dart, Tracer Missile, Heatseaker Missile, and Rail Shot all hurt the target at the same time. Well actually its kind of unfair but hey if you guys are defending the system you're defending my 10k pvp burst combo.

I agree with this. The more I play, the more I find this to be the case - it's not a problem with the system or the design, it's with uneven implementation somehow. Sometimes the combat is sweet and "in the pocket", other times there's definitely a sluggishness there.

 

It seems to me that there's a distinction here between people who simply want to play WoW gameplay dressed up in Star Wars graphics, and people who are willing to give a slightly different combat style a chance.

 

See, for me, the WoW style of animation clipping - I actually hated that. And part of the reason why I hated that was part of the reason I couldn't get into WoW, despite realising that it's a tremendously well-made product. It made the characters sort of "cheap". It was sort of ok given the overall cartoonish feel - it made the characters light-hearted and un-serious. But you can't have that same attitude to Star Wars characters - the overall fell of the game has to be more "serious", more "epic". At the end of the day, WoW's system is not the be-all-and-end all of combat styles, it's just something that some people have gotten used to. (And before anybody gives it the "But us competitive players made WoW successful!" malarkey, may I remind them of the famous statistic that the vast majority of WoW's players never get beyond lvl 35 )

 

I much prefer the approach in SWTOR where the animations are more integrated with the feel of combat, where I'm actually enjoying the animations and the "show" on the screen, and what the character is visibly doing feels more integrated with my button pressing.

 

That is ... when it works like that. And it most definitely doesn't work so sweetly all the time, and that most definitely is a problem.

I agree with this...If everything was sync'd up perfectly for EVERYBODY then we would be all set...

I like their approach to combat, but its no secret that people are having either problem A, problem B or combo of both...

I actually prefer it this way as it allows me to have an Explosive Dart, Tracer Missile, Heatseaker Missile, and Rail Shot all hurt the target at the same time. Well actually its kind of unfair but hey if you guys are defending the system you're defending my 10k pvp burst combo.

Missile travel time isn't really what they're talking about.

I don't really notice any of these issues on my BH either, all of the abilities have predictable animations and travel times. You learn this by playing the game and leveling up...

Missile travel time isn't really what they're talking about.

 

I don't really notice any of these issues on my BH either, all of the abilities have predictable animations and travel times. You learn this by playing the game and leveling up...

Naw not by itself but there is about a half second wind up on Rail Shot that is what lets me land all 4 at once or land a Rail Shot after someone has already moved out of LOS cause it checks LOS at button press not animation cast.

And yeah, it is my Merc that does not have these issues. Merc skill execution speed at least for Arsenal seems how it should be. If you've played a Sniper or a Sorc though it is terrible and many of the instant casts have long wind ups or the cast bar casts have long wind downs.

I do kind of notice it a bit with unload though, the pacing of the ticks seems awkward and there is an annoying wind up to it.