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Call me greedy...entitled.. all you want..


Ayelinna

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

You guys can joke about that all you want.

 

The thing is, it isn't people's nature when told "subscriber appreciation" that they are just getting cartel coins.

 

If it was just coins, then better to have told everyone up front that subs will be getting a one time bonus of cartel coins. By making it all secret and "you'll find out 4th of July weekend!" - something that was simple was subjected to needless speculation over something that could have been told to us from the beginning to manage our expectations.

 

By NOT telling us, it HEAVILY implies something far more substantial than cartel coins to the common person, because whats the point of keeping quiet over a one time CC bonus? That does not make sense to most people I'd wager.

 

The point posts like this seem to be missing is that the reason the gift was poorly received isn't necessarily because it was a bad gift, but because people were led on to think it was going to be something more than that due to Bioware's mishandling of this, which unfortunately, is becoming a repeated theme over the past year, year and a half in terms of communication.

 

And that's not to say we shouldn't be told anything - the problem isn't that we're being immature in how we get our information - the problem is that Bioware still hasn't learned what to hype and what to just come clean with when it comes to certain things. Overhyping the Image Design for instance while not coming clean that it will cost cartel coins, or overhyping what ended up being a bonus cartel grant.

 

Just saying in my position, if it were me, I would have just said at the appropriate time that as a TY to subs, we will be rewarding a 1 time CC grant some time around 4th of July weekend, amount TBD. There, done, yes some people will still whine, but EVERYONE will know what to expect and nothing will be needlessly overhyped.

 

But, just as a thing, if it were me?

 

I would have given all Subs an item that generates a random speeder from the discontinued Korrialis speeder series and made them tradeable to other subs only. Since the improvements that prevent the issues from accessing items on fleet since they were discontinued, that would have been a nice sub perk for everyone and actually worthy of the hype.

 

Or maybe I would have allowed all subs one free armor set from the cartel market? They still would have to pay CC to unlock for other characters.

 

I mean, there is a bunch of ways to go that actually would have had a better impact. It really does feel like, from the way it was built up, that the people in charge of deciding this just ran out of time or ideas and just decided to throw some CCs at the subs to shut us up about it...

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

I got three things to say to this Bruce.

 

1. I'm happy with the coins.

2. You'll never please everyone I bet most people are also happy with coins.

3. I wouldn't have minded a jumper.

4. What was the DVD?

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Wait, that was NOT our mothly CC? well thats fail, no one told me! well atleast i got that random item for 10CC which will be opn the GTN soon...

 

That's the first thing I thought when I logged in...

 

Hey Bioware, I'll trade back my CC for a Codex fix

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

You should know that offering a DVD to someone is like saying "I don't care, you're nothing to me but I had to get you a gift, anyway you can go **** yourself". It's like offering socks or deodorant ; it's a slap in the face.

 

Girls enjoy diamonds, gamers like content.

 

Now I know why swtor is in this state...

Edited by Kesphin
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You should know that offering a DVD to someone is like saying "I don't care, you're nothing to me but I had to get you a gift, anyway you can go **** yourself". It's like offering socks or deodorant ; it's a slap in the face.

 

Now I know why swtor is in this state...

 

He best pray his wife doesn't read the forums.

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

Boy can I relate. I told Jaesa I planned a special genocide of a large furry species. I took her to Kashyyyk and covered her eyes. When I took her out to their jungle homes and did the big reveal, she Force choked me and slammed me about like a ragdoll, screaming that she wanted to kill Wampas on Hoth.

 

Women, am I right, fellas?

 

:rolleyes:

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

So, I'm perfectly happy with my subscription and what I get for it. I don't need anything more. But as soon as I heard about this 500 CC thing I knew it wasn't going to go over well.

 

First, its temporary. The problem of subscribers not feeling valued is only going to keep emerging once they've burned through this amount of coins, which is less than a monthly stipend.

 

I think you guys need to focus on giving subs something that was not part of the base game. A lot of us have been playing since last year, and your approach when converting to F2P was not to give subs something extra, it was primarily to restrict the F2P experience. That's fine, but it doesn't make a subscriber feel more valued when their play experience is virtually unchanged.

 

I recently heard about Rift's F2P conversion, and one of the things that subs got there were exclusive "abilities" with a 24-hour cooldown that would provide an XP, reputation, or valor boost. Now, we can obviously buy boosts from the Cartel Market with our stipend, and that may very equate to more or better boosts than we'd get with an ability that lasts an hour a day, but it doesn't have the same uniqueness. Anyone with some pocket change can buy a valor boost, but as a subscriber, I have a unique once-a-day ability to get get it.

 

Focus on incentives that feel more exclusive, and I think the good will you generate will go much further towards yielding positive results.

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Context is important though, simply saying this was a "gift" and that we're total ingrates is completely inaccurate.

 

We were told it was a gift for subscribers because of the bad feelings from the patch "2.1 - Cartel Cash Grab".

 

In other words, you had a bunch of subscribers upset about the omnipresent Cartel Market, so to show us "appreciation" you give us coins to buy stuff on the Cartel Market? And then announce that in order to celebrate KOTOR's anniversary, we have to buy the title with Cartel Coins?

 

It's almost unbelievable.

 

So, it's not that I don't like the "gift", I don't like the concept. It's like saying the Trojans shouldn't be upset about what the giant wooden horse turned out to be, they should just be thankful that the Greeks built it and gave it to them.....

Edited by Primarch_PWnD
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just a movie DvD

 

That's the problem.

 

Heres two situations:

"Happy birthday my darling wife, here's a necklace I bought for you"

 

"Thank you my darling husband! It means a lot to me, but I dont really wear necklaces, maybe I will wear it next time we go out, I dont want to damage it. Thank you for putting so much thought into it, it means a lot"

 

or

 

"Here's some money for your birthday darling.....spend it, i don't care what you spend it on, I couldn't be bothered to give you a present and to be honest I want to sit on my arse and watch television so ...shoo go and spend it."

 

Yeahhh if I gave my wife or husband money for their birthday they'd probably be disappointed with me.

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You should know that offering a DVD to someone is like saying "I don't care, you're nothing to me but I had to get you a gift, anyway you can go **** yourself". It's like offering socks or deodorant ; it's a slap in the face.

 

Girls enjoy diamonds, gamers like content.

 

Now I know why swtor is in this state...

 

Well said.

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

I guess it all depends Bruce.

 

If you gave her a gift card to a store she feels strongly against, or to a store that YOU like, but she doesn't care for, isn't that a kinda self serving "gift"?

 

It's not like gifts are given often in this game and player expectations are ALWAYS higher than they should be.

 

I'm fine with the "gift" - just sticking up for your wife.

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I guess it all depends Bruce.

 

If you gave her a gift card to a store she feels strongly against, or to a store that YOU like, but she doesn't care for, isn't that a kinda self serving "gift"?

 

It's not like gifts are given often in this game and player expectations are ALWAYS higher than they should be.

 

I'm fine with the "gift" - just sticking up for your wife.

 

Or a gift card to a store you work at and that you got for free. :p

Edited by Benfynyn
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The wife/girlfriend analogy was the first thing I thought of when I saw what this gift was.

 

Take it from someone who's been married nearly 15 years now. When she says she feels undervalued, that you don't listen to her anymore, that you spend all your time working and not paying attention to her, the answer isn't to peel off a fiver and say "There you are love, don't spend it all at once".

 

This is how this felt. It felt like you put no thought and effort into it and just wanted to fob us off as easily as possible so you could get back to making more cartel market crap that isn't covered by our subscription.

 

Take that how you will. You're obviously not listening anyway...

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

And then you get older, and realize that gift cards are just a lazy *** way to show you care.

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What JPryde said.

 

Reminds me of one time when I told my wife I had a present for her, and she got all excited. When she saw it was just a movie DvD she couldn't hide her disappointment and said in disbelief 'THAT'S MY PRESENT?!' I would have been better off not announcing the present in advance, or just giving her a gift card with funds on it instead.

 

I think this is what a lot of people have said. Annoncing that there will be a subscriber appreciation gift coming out only makes people guess at what it could be. Most people had assumed that it would be something great to show BW that their 18 months of loyal support has been noticed. When it is less than people guessed it would be they get annoyed. Had there been no announcement then when they got the 500 coins they would be happy but the hype of the gift was greater than the gift.

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The wife/girlfriend analogy was the first thing I thought of when I saw what this gift was.

 

Take it from someone who's been married nearly 15 years now. When she says she feels undervalued, that you don't listen to her anymore, that you spend all your time working and not paying attention to her, the answer isn't to peel off a fiver and say "There you are love, don't spend it all at once".

 

This is how this felt. It felt like you put no thought and effort into it and just wanted to fob us off as easily as possible so you could get back to making more cartel market crap that isn't covered by our subscription.

 

Take that how you will. You're obviously not listening anyway...

Wow...great reply!

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The problem with this wife analogy is that you typically love your wife and intend to spend your whole life with.

 

This is absolutely not the case between Bioware and us.

 

We are not married, we are not etzernally sworn to each other. Heck, we are not even real friends. I will never get to know anyone of the Devs in person (unless any come to the GamesCon to Cologne this year), but even if I meet them there, the resulting relation will be nothing more than "barely knowing them" and a lot less than friends.

 

I will never give any kind of birthday gift to the devs. I am their customer !

 

We got something for free without any kind of obligation. And people are complaining about it. This is ungrateful, regardless of the nature of the gift.

 

The gift does have a value, you cannot possibly deny that fact. And for that value, you can either be thankful or shut up. This level of complaining is ridiculous.

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The wife/girlfriend analogy was the first thing I thought of when I saw what this gift was.

 

Take it from someone who's been married nearly 15 years now. When she says she feels undervalued, that you don't listen to her anymore, that you spend all your time working and not paying attention to her, the answer isn't to peel off a fiver and say "There you are love, don't spend it all at once".

 

This is how this felt. It felt like you put no thought and effort into it and just wanted to fob us off as easily as possible so you could get back to making more cartel market crap that isn't covered by our subscription.

 

Take that how you will. You're obviously not listening anyway...

 

This guy gets it. You piss off subs by making the game increasingly revolve around the Cartel Market, then try to appease them by giving them Cartel Coins? That would be like me calling my wife fat, then offering to take her out for a salad with fat free dressing and a water to apologize. I get that the CM is here to stay and I've accepted that as the way things are, but this was just tacky.

 

Also, I have to wonder if the coin grant was the plan all along or if it was the quickest solution they could come up with working by the seat of their pants once people inquired about it. Last week, when the impending surprise for subs was brought up in the forum, they said they couldn't announce anything but to watch our emails for something soon. After reading the response, I remarked that the whole thing felt like they made a promise they hadn't put much thought into, then either forgot about it or pushed it to the back-burner, only to realize that subs aren't as forgetful, so they had to come up with something in a hurry as a CYA move. A few days later, it seems my assessment was correct, because there was obviously no grand plan here.

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The problem with this wife analogy is that you typically love your wife and intend to spend your whole life with.

 

This is absolutely not the case between Bioware and us.

 

We are not married, we are not etzernally sworn to each other. Heck, we are not even real friends. I will never get to know anyone of the Devs in person (unless any come to the GamesCon to Cologne this year), but even if I meet them there, the resulting relation will be nothing more than "barely knowing them" and a lot less than friends.

 

I will never give any kind of birthday gift to the devs. I am their customer !

 

We got something for free without any kind of obligation. And people are complaining about it. This is ungrateful, regardless of the nature of the gift.

 

The gift does have a value, you cannot possibly deny that fact. And for that value, you can either be thankful or shut up. This level of complaining is ridiculous.

 

That is a fair point. If you go to a Hot Dog Vendor every day, he doesn't give you a mix CD with all your favorite songs(well not since '98, but that was because Mix CDs were awesome). He gives you a hot dog on the house.

 

You're all acting like Hot Dog Guy should have given you a freaking Lambo.

 

And if you've actually recieved a Lambo from Hot Dog Guy, that means you need to stop playing with his emotions. He is clearly in love with you. But you're in love with Shwarma Guy, aren't you? Even though he treats you like nothing but common Borscht, you are still strangely drawn to his flippant but desirable charms. He doesn't like you, but that just makes you want him more.

Edited by Darth_Moonshadow
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The wife/girlfriend analogy was the first thing I thought of when I saw what this gift was.

 

Take it from someone who's been married nearly 15 years now. When she says she feels undervalued, that you don't listen to her anymore, that you spend all your time working and not paying attention to her, the answer isn't to peel off a fiver and say "There you are love, don't spend it all at once".

 

This is how this felt. It felt like you put no thought and effort into it and just wanted to fob us off as easily as possible so you could get back to making more cartel market crap that isn't covered by our subscription.

 

Take that how you will. You're obviously not listening anyway...

 

This and

 

I guess it all depends Bruce.

 

If you gave her a gift card to a store she feels strongly against, or to a store that YOU like, but she doesn't care for, isn't that a kinda self serving "gift"?

 

It's not like gifts are given often in this game and player expectations are ALWAYS higher than they should be.

 

I'm fine with the "gift" - just sticking up for your wife.

 

This.

 

Subscribers aren't upset that they can't get things of the CM, they can they get 500 CCs every month. We wanted something unique that let us know we are special and you care about us. Instead you confirmed our suspicions that you don't. Gee thanks!

 

Ironically I was more upset by the appreciation gift and the Treek debacle than I ever was about 2.1 or anything since F2P. Straw has finally broken my camels back I guess...

Edited by Arlon_Nabarlly
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Subscribers aren't upset that they can't get things of the CM, they can they get 500 CCs every month. We wanted something unique that let us know we are special and you care about us. Instead you confirmed our suspicions that you don't. Boy thanks!

We did get something, an extra 500 CC. Seriously, if it had been some lameo title or pet you didn't like, you'd be in here complaining just as hard. In fact when we were all still speculating on what it was going to be, some people (not saying you), did express the hope that it wouldn't just be just some lameo title or pet.

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The wife/girlfriend analogy was the first thing I thought of when I saw what this gift was.

 

Take it from someone who's been married nearly 15 years now. When she says she feels undervalued, that you don't listen to her anymore, that you spend all your time working and not paying attention to her, the answer isn't to peel off a fiver and say "There you are love, don't spend it all at once".

 

This is how this felt. It felt like you put no thought and effort into it and just wanted to fob us off as easily as possible so you could get back to making more cartel market crap that isn't covered by our subscription.

 

Take that how you will. You're obviously not listening anyway...

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if come the 3rd July one hour before leaving the office someone realised "uh oh... We forgot the sub appreciation gift". So they decided to give us the equilivant of a gift card. I know if I need to get someone a gift and I don't really know what to get them (or there isn't much time to get them something) I cop out and get them a gift card!

 

Don't get me wrong, it was good of them to provide us with something, but I don't think it warranted all the usual Bioware secrecy.

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