Plus you "might" have to deal with some of the original actors who don't want their voices used in a gay romance situation.... Now with new companions Bioware can find actors who have no issue with this...

 

 

 

So the voice actors who have previously and proudly played non-hetero characters in previous Bioware games and other forms of entertainment, won't want to do same gendered dialogue now?

Riiight.

I just don't see Bioware going through the expense and time to redo existing content to appease and lets be honest a smaller portion of the player base....

As has been said many times before, the people wanting SGRAs are probably more than you think. If I had to guess, I'd say we outnumber raiders.

Plus you "might" have to deal with some of the original actors who don't want their voices used in a gay romance situation.... Now with new companions Bioware can find actors who have no issue with this...

Please, that's a strawman argument if I've ever seen one. Actors are professionals, and voice actors for video games are hardly high enough on the fame ladder to be divas about anything. They like to be paid so they'll do the work and do it gladly.

So like I said, I wouldn't expect anything until the first expansion....

 

But like you said it's all speculation for now... but thats my best guess based on what I know....

You could be right about that, no one really knows. But if they do intend to make me pay extra, give me less content and make me wait a year or more for it? I won't be around to see it. As much as I love the game, that's just not right.

Anyway, that aside, good to see we're all still here and going for the fourth thread. Looking forward to today's Q&A (though it's usually up by this time, isnt it?), ready to celebrate if we get an answer or post my question again if we don't. Here's hoping.

It varies. It has been up earlier or later from week to week. But it is getting on toward 6:30 in Austin, so I imagine it will be along any time now.

So LGBT Gamers are a 'smaller portion' of a BIOWARE gaming community? please.

Also, you are assuming, wrongly, that only LGBT gamers would use this content, many other groups would to.

 

 

 

Really? ...really?

 

 

 

Stephen Reid stated otherwise.

If you think otherwise then how come LGBT content was not put in at the beginning of the game? Would of been easier to do it at that time then try and come back later and put it in.....

The FACT that bioware did not put it in tells me they feel it does represent a smaller portion of their player base... Odds are EA or Lucasarts also had reservations of adding such content or Bioware was affraid of backlash by adding in such content on a huge IP and didn't want it to affect their sales...

Anyway you slice it, Bioware could of easily included same sex romances when the game launch but they CHOOSE not to do it...

I personally have no issue with such content in the game, but to stick your head in the sand and pretend that none of my explanations are valid is just living in a bubble...

If you think otherwise then how come LGBT content was not put in at the beginning of the game? Would of been easier to do it at that time then try and come back later and put it in.....

 

The FACT that bioware did not put it in tells me they feel it does represent a smaller portion of their player base... Odds are EA or Lucasarts also had reservations of adding such content or Bioware was affraid of backlash by adding in such content on a huge IP and didn't want it to affect their sales...

 

Anyway you slice it, Bioware could of easily included same sex romances when the game launch but they CHOOSE not to do it...

 

I personally have no issue with such content in the game, but to stick your head in the sand and pretend that none of my explanations are valid is just living in a bubble...

We don't know why it wasn't included but it appears to have been because LucasArts wouldn't permit it initially. So they may have just not had the time to get it completed and in for launch.

Also, SR has stated that BW knows this ISN'T just some small part of the community. I think it's time to dig back up the SR quotes... we really need to start getting all of them up on the front page of each new thread.

Anyway you slice it, Bioware could of easily included same sex romances when the game launch but they CHOOSE not to do it...

That part I absolutely agree with. They could (and should) have included it for launch. As far as the founders of Bioware are concerned same gender romance content is part of the expectations of a Bioware game and the Austin studio has flat out failed to deliver that to us with SW:TOR.

The sooner they fix their mistakes the better it will be for everyone (those wanting the content can finally go enjoy the game, and it can quit being such a hot button issue on the forum).

If you think otherwise then how come LGBT content was not put in at the beginning of the game? Would of been easier to do it at that time then try and come back later and put it in.....

 

The FACT that bioware did not put it in tells me they feel it does represent a smaller portion of their player base... Odds are EA or Lucasarts also had reservations of adding such content or Bioware was affraid of backlash by adding in such content on a huge IP and didn't want it to affect their sales...

 

Anyway you slice it, Bioware could of easily included same sex romances when the game launch but they CHOOSE not to do it...

 

I personally have no issue with such content in the game, but to stick your head in the sand and pretend that none of my explanations are valid is just living in a bubble...

So you know exactly what Bioware is thinking whenever they make any choice? LOL okay then.

Also, Stephen Reid, has stated that they recognize the LGBT community is not just a hand full of people but a very large section of their fanbase.

Lots of people plan to play characters who are purely Light Side or purely Dark Side, and so won't need the prompts for those choices. Never heard of anyone asking for that sort of toggle.

And this is the key point that the pro-toggle people need to understand. It doesn't matter how many times you say that you're OK with SGRAs being in the game. It doesn't matter how carefully you construct your proposal to give it the appearance of treating OGRAs and SGRAs equally. Because what matters is that it wasn't until the possiblity of SGRAs was raised that anybody started asking for a toggle at all. The fact that it's same-sex content - and only same-sex content - that provokes this reaction tells us everything we need to know.

And this is the key point that the pro-toggle people need to understand. It doesn't matter how many times you say that you're OK with SGRAs being in the game. It doesn't matter how carefully you construct your proposal to give it the appearance of treating OGRAs and SGRAs equally. Because what matters is that it wasn't until the possiblity of SGRAs was raised that anybody started asking for a toggle at all. The fact that it's same-sex content - and only same-sex content - that provokes this reaction tells us everything we need to know.

This. Very this.

*returns to compulsively refreshing the Dev Tracker*

And this is the key point that the pro-toggle people need to understand. It doesn't matter how many times you say that you're OK with SGRAs being in the game. It doesn't matter how carefully you construct your proposal to give it the appearance of treating OGRAs and SGRAs equally. Because what matters is that it wasn't until the possiblity of SGRAs was raised that anybody started asking for a toggle at all. The fact that it's same-sex content - and only same-sex content - that provokes this reaction tells us everything we need to know.

Best post all the incarnations of this topic has ever had.

So you know exactly what Bioware is thinking whenever they make any choice? LOL okay then.

 

Also, Stephen Reid, has stated that they recognize the LGBT community is not just a hand full of people but a very large section of their fanbase.

Probably worth remembering David Gaider's response to a fan's objections to the bisexual romance options in Dragon Age 2:

The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.

 

More than that, I would question anyone deciding they speak for "the straight male gamer" just as much as someone claiming they speak for "all RPG fans", "all female fans" or even "all gay fans". You don't. If you wish to express your personal desires, then do so. I have no doubt that any opinion expressed on these forums is shared by many others, but since none of them have elected a spokesperson you're better off not trying to be one. If your attempt is to convince BioWare developers, I can tell you that you do in fact make your opinion less convincing by doing so.

 

And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don't see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what's everyone's fuss all about? That's the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want.

Full post is here, as well as the post it was made in response to.

Probably worth remembering David Gaider's response to a fan's objections to the bisexual romance options in Dragon Age 2:

 

 

 

Full post is here, as well as the post it was made in response to.

Unfortunately as David Gaider has, as far as I know, nothing to do with TOR that's really only a quote of interest rather than indication.

Still, when I read it I frickin' cheered.

Full post is here, as well as the post it was made in response to.

David Gaider is the best. I wish he had worked on TOR just so we could see him post here.

Well, it's almost 1am over here in blighty, I doubt my nephews are going to accept me mumbling "but I was waiting up for the Q&A" into my duvet as a valid excuse for not making their breakfast in the morning, so i'm off to bed.

Fingers crossed for something.

Unfortunately as David Gaider has, as far as I know, nothing to do with TOR that's really only a quote of interest rather than indication.

Yeah, he's not part of the TOR development team. His point about BioWare having the actual numbers on the uptake of SGRAs in their other games carries over pretty well, though, IMO.

David Gaider is the best. I wish he had worked on TOR just so we could see him post here.

I love the response, kind sounds like to me that he is saying, i respect your right to voice your opinion but your a wrong and insane for posting this thread repeatability.

I love the response, kind sounds like to me that he is saying, i respect your right to voice your opinion but your a wrong and insane for posting this thread repeatability.

I think that was pretty much the gist of it, yeah. In fact, I've never played DA2 after having been disappointed in ME2. I may go buy it and play it just because David is so awesome, I always liked his postings from the forums. I'm certainly not getting anything here from TOR to encourage me to stick around.

Yeah, he's not part of the TOR development team. His point about BioWare having the actual numbers on the uptake of SGRAs in their other games carries over pretty well, though, IMO.

Very true. And even though Mr. Gaider isn't one of the TOR devs, TOR is still a BioWare game, and BioWare knows their audience and what they expect. I don't claim to know why SGRs weren't in TOR to begin with, though I do think the "LucasArts said no" explanation is likely. But BioWare Austin has said they'll fix this mistake, and I trust them to do so.

That, and it's always good to see Mr. Gaider's post. Delivery of that kind of verbal smackdown to someone who claimed to speak for a supposed majority is a beautiful thing. While I don't hope to see posts like that OP on these boards once SGRs are officially announced, I do hope the TOR devs will perform as admirably.

And this is the key point that the pro-toggle people need to understand. It doesn't matter how many times you say that you're OK with SGRAs being in the game. It doesn't matter how carefully you construct your proposal to give it the appearance of treating OGRAs and SGRAs equally. Because what matters is that it wasn't until the possiblity of SGRAs was raised that anybody started asking for a toggle at all. The fact that it's same-sex content - and only same-sex content - that provokes this reaction tells us everything we need to know.

In all fairness it should be pointed out that there was a request for a flirt prompt toggle before, but it never caught on(only a handful of people were for it, a ton against).

I do have to wonder if people against it then would change their opinion if the idea of same gender content was brought in, I would have to die a little on the inside though .

I think that was pretty much the gist of it, yeah. In fact, I've never played DA2 after having been disappointed in ME2. I may go buy it and play it just because David is so awesome, I always liked his postings from the forums. I'm certainly not getting anything here from TOR to encourage me to stick around.

Dragon Age 2 is given a bad rep from the DA: origins fans just because it isn't about the Warden, the nitpicking is quite funny, I enjoyed DAII just as much as DA:O.

Oh and I highly suggest getting all the Mass Effect games, as well as the Liar of the Shadow Broker and Arrival DLCs for ME2, and i highly recommended romancing Liara T'soni throughout the whole series, she is by long and far the best companion and romance i have ever seen in a video game.

I don't claim to know why SGRs weren't in TOR to begin with, though I do think the "LucasArts said no" explanation is likely.

I don't know. That sounds too easy. LucasArts didn't say 'no' to Karen Traviss making a couple of Mandalorians gay.

Dragon Age 2 is given a bad rep from the DA: origins fans just because it isn't about the Warden, the nitpicking is quite funny, I enjoyed DAII just as much as DA:O.

That was pretty much the reason I never gave it a second look.

Oh and I highly suggest getting all the Mass Effect games, as well as the Liar of the Shadow Broker and Arrival DLCs for ME2, and i highly recommended romancing Liara T'soni throughout the whole series, she is by long and far the best companion and romance i have ever seen in a video game.

Liara was obviously my romance in ME1 (and one of my all time favorite video game characters till they made her all "grimdark"). I'm pretty much done with that series now. ME2 was too "Michael Bay" for my tastes and Kelly just didn't do it for me.

And we are off topic now.... I got my new question all written up, just waiting to post it.

I don't know. That sounds too easy. LucasArts didn't say 'no' to Karen Traviss making a couple of Mandalorians gay.

Nor did they say no to including it in other BW SW games. No, I'm fairly certain the blame for all this lies squarely on BW - Austin's shoulders.

i find whole ideal make so flirt with char that aready put in to game as will ruin relationship player like my self aready have with them. i Like bioware ideal better then i like all your guys suggest because it mean new companion instead change the companion they aready have.

Have guys ever consider the kira, vette,mako , ashara , just are straight. i mean don't tthey choice who they get fall love with. the ideal turn off content when it really bad it like tell you guys your not allow feel that way about lover. Have you ever consider that bioware ideal add new companion add more depth to game instead just recycle all content from male side and apply it female side too. wouldn't more fun to have new companion to romance instead use already use companion. Add more companion make game more interest change companion that you already have and ruin from those who play female char. some us like sister like relation with mako and vette.

your mintory in this game you let bioware be bioware instead force it do what you say

if all companion like male and female that does make those companion pretty dull

i think companion have right feel differently about different genders.

That was pretty much the reason I never gave it a second look.

I had the same concerns, among others. But DA2 actually really surprised me. There's a great deal about it that I could complain about, but nothing that really breaks it, and underneath it all there's an amazing game in there.

u let bioware be bioware

If Bioware (Austin) had been Bioware from the start we all wouldn't be having this conversation.