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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP


Phasersablaze

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Rage marauders are easy to play. Carnage most definitley is not which is why I rolled Carnage. I have never wants said that our defensive cds are not powerful they most definitely are but only out of necessity. We are a medium armor, in your face dps class. If we did not have the defensive cds we have we would be next to useless. Learn to counter Undying rage and you will have np with maras when it is popped.
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You're simply playing mara wrong.

 

I suppose playing one "right" in huttball means forgetting about predation in favor of dueling people in the pit to someone like you. Personally, I value winning more than damage totals, which, in huttball, don't mean a damned thing.

 

Like I said, in Huttball the ranged/melee pendulum swings the other way, except for assassins, Juggs aren't half bad either. Marauders are better than PTs in huttball, but that's because PTs are abominable in that warzone, not because marauders are good in it.

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Instead of just ranting at the terrible logic being used on the forums, I decided to write out my thoughts in an organized manner:

 

 

 

#4) Marauder dps is about on par with other DPS. (Rage spec aside, which any intelligent person knows is significantly OP)

 

Answer: Marauders possess the unique ability to dish out high damage, while at the same time shutting the other person down. Unlike other DPS classes who have to basically use their one interrupt and maybe 2 stuns as skillfully as they can while they DPS race you down to 0 health, Marauders just shut people down simmilar to an operative coming out of stealth to attack. The ammount of Mez/Stun, and interrupts/Knockdowns combined with their 4 defensive discs makes them incredible PVP contenders. They may not have the absolute highest burst in the game, but it doesn't matter that your burst ability is 9 out of 10 when you can destroy 50% of the other guy's effectiveness.

 

**************************

Phaser

The Shadowlands

 

Marauders don't have any knockbacks or knockdowns. They have one one stun, and its channeled, And one AoE mezz. Force charge does interrupt but only one spec allows it to work at 0 meter. And then we have a standard melee interrupt.

 

Marauders have no where near the ablility to shutdown lock down a player like an operative. One spec - annihilation - is better at interrupting healers casting.

 

 

What you said was largely deceptive.

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Marauders don't have any knockbacks or knockdowns. They have one one stun, and its channeled, And one AoE mezz. Force charge does interrupt but only one spec allows it to work at 0 meter. And then we have a standard melee interrupt.

 

Marauders have no where near the ablility to shutdown lock down a player like an operative. One spec - annihilation - is better at interrupting healers casting.

 

 

What you said was largely deceptive.

 

Here is a prime example of exactly what I am talking about. A marauder trying to downplay his abilities. No knockback he says and yet I get force pushed twice within 5 seconds. One stun he says and yet he admits to an AOE mez...just lol.

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Here is a prime example of exactly what I am talking about. A marauder trying to downplay his abilities. No knockback he says and yet I get force pushed twice within 5 seconds. One stun he says and yet he admits to an AOE mez...just lol.

 

Only Juggs/Guardians have force push. Mezzes are not stuns. What a joke.

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Only Juggs/Guardians have force push. Mezzes are not stuns. What a joke.

 

The point is that he is downplaying his abilities. "only" 2 interrupts. "Only" 1 stun and 1 AE mez. "Only" 4 defensive discs. Predation can "Only" be used when you have 30 stacks.

 

Give me a break. Open your eyes already.

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The point is that he is downplaying his abilities. "only" 2 interrupts. "Only" 1 stun and 1 AE mez. "Only" 4 defensive discs. Predation can "Only" be used when you have 30 stacks.

 

Give me a break. Open your eyes already.

 

Someone already mentioned this can be done with any class, here you go.

 

Overpowered Corruption/Lightning Sorcs:

 

1) Force Speed that ignores/breaks roots and snares every 20 seconds.

2) 15m range KB with 5 second root, breaks on damage after 2 seconds.

3) Free self heal (with talent, mine crits around 6-6.5k)

4) 3-4k damage reduction through bubble that can be applied to anyone in group every 17 seconds with 2 piece force mystic set bonus. This bubble is talented to stun anyone nearby for 3 seconds when damage pops it or it is manually clicked off.

5) 4 second hard stun with 10 m range

6) 8 Second mezz with 30 m range every 45 seconds.

7) Interrupt locks out ability for an additional 2 seconds.

8) Friendly pull every 45 seconds.

9) Essentially no worry about resource management due to talents in lightning tree.

10) Can cleanse any force abilities, killing madness and anni specs.

11) Snare reducing speed by 50% for 6 seconds every 12 seconds on 30 m range.

12) All heals and damaging abilities can be performed from 30 m range.

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Someone already mentioned this can be done with any class, here you go.

 

Overpowered Corruption/Lightning Sorcs:

 

1) Force Speed that ignores/breaks roots and snares every 20 seconds.

2) 15m range KB with 5 second root, breaks on damage after 2 seconds.

3) Free self heal (with talent, mine crits around 6-6.5k)

4) 3-4k damage reduction through bubble that can be applied to anyone in group every 17 seconds with 2 piece force mystic set bonus. This bubble is talented to stun anyone nearby for 3 seconds when damage pops it or it is manually clicked off.

5) 4 second hard stun with 10 m range

6) 8 Second mezz with 30 m range every 45 seconds.

7) Interrupt locks out ability for an additional 2 seconds.

8) Friendly pull every 45 seconds.

9) Essentially no worry about resource management due to talents in lightning tree.

10) Can cleanse any force abilities, killing madness and anni specs.

11) Snare reducing speed by 50% for 6 seconds every 12 seconds on 30 m range.

12) All heals and damaging abilities can be performed from 30 m range.

 

Lol that's a nice straw man you made there.

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and an operative, scoundrel, sniper, mercenary, vanguard, sorc, assassin. Mara is op, but when you post incorrect information then it deserves to be called out for. No point in calling for a nerf thread if what you say is wrong. Saying obliterate is a 15m ranged interrupt among MANY other things, might as well say sorc bubble absorbs 30k damage.

 

Lol that's a pretty wild comparison 30k sorc bubbles? You sound like you are desperately trying to distract.

 

#1) Learn to read. I am not calling for Nerfs.

#2) I am not perfect and don't have 100% knowledge of all classes from the top of my head. You can call out mistakes, yes, but discrediting everything I say because of one mistake is just being ignorant. No one knows everything.

#3) There aren't "MANY" other things because if there were then you would have listed them. (That logical fallacy is called gross generalization btw.)

 

Look I can do the same thing:

 

"Marauders have this ability that makes them god for 4 seconds."

 

"They also have MANY MORE abilities like that!"

 

"Marauders are OP because they can be god-mode forever!"

 

Makes sense right? Well...according to your logic.

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Rage marauders are easy to play. Carnage most definitley is not which is why I rolled Carnage. I have never wants said that our defensive cds are not powerful they most definitely are but only out of necessity. We are a medium armor, in your face dps class. If we did not have the defensive cds we have we would be next to useless. Learn to counter Undying rage and you will have np with maras when it is popped.

 

 

The problem is that ARMOR is not working as intended...so the diference between Medium armor and Heavy armor is absurd.

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Someone already mentioned this can be done with any class, here you go.

 

Overpowered Corruption/Lightning Sorcs:

 

1) Force Speed that ignores/breaks roots and snares every 20 seconds.

2) 15m range KB with 5 second root, breaks on damage after 2 seconds.

3) Free self heal (with talent, mine crits around 6-6.5k)

4) 3-4k damage reduction through bubble that can be applied to anyone in group every 17 seconds with 2 piece force mystic set bonus. This bubble is talented to stun anyone nearby for 3 seconds when damage pops it or it is manually clicked off.

5) 4 second hard stun with 10 m range

6) 8 Second mezz with 30 m range every 45 seconds.

7) Interrupt locks out ability for an additional 2 seconds.

8) Friendly pull every 45 seconds.

9) Essentially no worry about resource management due to talents in lightning tree.

10) Can cleanse any force abilities, killing madness and anni specs.

11) Snare reducing speed by 50% for 6 seconds every 12 seconds on 30 m range.

12) All heals and damaging abilities can be performed from 30 m range.

 

 

LOL can u do it with vanguard? xD

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The stun-happy environment is a different matter all-together. Also, even if I am smart and save my stun for the right time I'm probably still out of luck because my team mates have given you full resolve.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know how to use my stun, and I'm not saying Marauders are god-mode classes that can't be countered. I AM saying however, that marauders have the most powerful tools available to them than any other PVP class.

You just implyed there God Mode with this sentence. Marauders are a great class if well played but they are easy to burn down once focused on. The problem is people don't use stims and there is your OP status for any class.
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Here is a prime example of exactly what I am talking about. A marauder trying to downplay his abilities. No knockback he says and yet I get force pushed twice within 5 seconds. One stun he says and yet he admits to an AOE mez...just lol.

 

Since you are clearly new to MMOs let me explain the difference between a Stun and a Mezz

 

** A stun is a complete lockdown of a player. That is it incapacitates a player and does not break upon taking damage.

Sometimes referred to as a Hard stun.

** A mezz is a incapacitation of a player but upon damage the effect is broken.

 

Again the ONE stun that marauders have is force choke - that while it does a small amount of damage - its a channeled ability. Its no where near a powerful as a non-channeled stun like Inquisitors and other classes have.

 

we Have ONE AoE mezz that is used to stop or delay groups of players..again it breaks on damage.

 

Marauders do not, DO NOT, have a knockback or a knockdown. However Juggs/guardians do have a force push - but unfortunately for your argument that is a completely different Advanced Class. **Marauders and Juggernauts are different Advanced classes.

 

I would suggest you learn the difference in classes - it helps out a lot in pvp when you know what tools ppl have when you are fighting them.

 

You have proven by your statement that you see every marauder as a 31/31/31 spec - as do a lot of ppl that complain about marauders.

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Do NOT waste your breath on these qq threads. Bioware knows that we are exactly where we need to be in pvp/pve. While there are other classes that need to be brought up a bit, we are no where near as far ahead as these people would have you believe. Every tool we have is vital for us to be able to do our job which is to deal damage. Let the QQ pile to the sky. This is the last nerf mara/sent thread I will ever click on.

 

heh. no you're not. you have a decided advantage over most classes in PvP (the exception is for assassins/shadows). that said, it's not THAT big of an advantage. it's just...glaring. anyway, I only replied to point out the (potentially obvious) fact that the need to balance PvE and PvP within each class, AC and spec is far more important than balancing PvP across all classes. I'm convinced that that is the only reason sents/maras have force camouflage. because stealthing in to kill a sniper is a lousy excuse for an abil when the only other relatively similar 'melee' (using the term loosely) dps has no gap closer at all for snipers in cover.

 

anyway...it's not a huge deal. but please, call a spade's a spade. you have appreciably more dcds than any other comparable class, burst dps that is ideal (i.e., what it should be), and you have the best utilities in game (predation or just passively heal your whole grp depending on spec). AND all three of your spec trees are viable in WZs.

Edited by foxmob
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Since you are clearly new to MMOs let me explain the difference between a Stun and a Mezz

 

** A stun is a complete lockdown of a player. That is it incapacitates a player and does not break upon taking damage.

Sometimes referred to as a Hard stun.

** A mezz is a incapacitation of a player but upon damage the effect is broken.

 

Again the ONE stun that marauders have is force choke - that while it does a small amount of damage - its a channeled ability. Its no where near a powerful as a non-channeled stun like Inquisitors and other classes have.

 

we Have ONE AoE mezz that is used to stop or delay groups of players..again it breaks on damage.

 

Marauders do not, DO NOT, have a knockback or a knockdown. However Juggs/guardians do have a force push - but unfortunately for your argument that is a completely different Advanced Class. **Marauders and Juggernauts are different Advanced classes.

 

I would suggest you learn the difference in classes - it helps out a lot in pvp when you know what tools ppl have when you are fighting them.

 

You have proven by your statement that you see every marauder as a 31/31/31 spec - as do a lot of ppl that complain about marauders.

 

Sorry kiddo, but I have been playing hardcore MMOs for decades. People don't use the same terms either because often stuns are used to refer to stuns that break on damage which are different. So don't try to come here and define stuff for me like you think this game is hard and complex. That just shows how narrow-minded you are.

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You just implyed there God Mode with this sentence. Marauders are a great class if well played but they are easy to burn down once focused on. The problem is people don't use stims and there is your OP status for any class.

 

Why do people always say this? Do you realize that EVERY class is easy to burn down once focused?

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Why do people always say this? Do you realize that EVERY class is easy to burn down once focused?

 

+1

 

Every class is susceptible to being focused as well as stunned. You cannot use that as an argument because one has nothing to do with the other. This logical fallacy is called "red herring". Where someone tries to distract from the main point by bringing up something completely irrelevant.

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#1) Tanks have better defensive cool-downs. Do you see any Marauders tanking bosses?

 

Answer: PVE enviroments consist of constant large attacks by boss mobs. In a raid, the tank takes so much damage that his defensive statistics make him a better choice than a marauder. Obviously a tank with better defensive stats is a better choice to survive the millions of incoming damage tanks are healed through in a raid night. A PVP environment is completely different; consisting of short bursty encounters. It is these short bursty encounters that make Undying Rage/GBTF the most powerful Cool-down in PVP.

 

#2) Undying Rage/GBTF really isn't that powerful because you can be stunned for the duration, and Force Shroud is better.

 

Correction Juggernuats have beter defensive cooldowns, Vanguard tanks only get a 15 second 25% mitigation buff that has a 2 min cd, adrenaline rush hardly counts has a defensive - 15% max health over 10 seconds its not even instant.

 

Number two only applies if you stuns are off cooldown and the maur does not have resolve immunity. I only have two stuns one for 4 sec with 2 min cd and the other 2 sec with 45 sec cd, both cost 1 ammo or 1/12 of my resouce

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I don't agree with the bolded. Juggs are pretty strong in huttball. Assassins might be the single strongest class in huttball. But marauders are good only when predation is up and Vanguards are the single worst class in that warzone. They've got a pull every 45 seconds and a whole lot of nothing else to contribute.

 

All ranged classes have a serious advantage over melee in huttball--except assassins. Juggs are about on par with some of the ranged.

 

Ah but how many other classes have a pull? 1 and pulls are better than knockback/push because with a pull I know where my target is going to end up (firetrap) push just knocks the target around idk where they end up maybe in the low area or just a few extra feet from the goal. And those darn tank Vans have this thing called Storm where i can jump to you. I cant tell you how many goals I have gotten from storm not to mention intercepts

 

sorry for double post

Edited by Zoom_VI
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To the thread starter, well said and thoroughly thought out, kudos. These aren't even all of the tools available to a Mara/Sent, just the most prominent ones, the absurd amount of versatility and potency of this class is no where near balanced. Anyone who thinks otherwise is plain and simply deluding themselves and just wants to keep the class at lolHerpDerp status. Sorry kids but the class is beyond overpowered and it is completely obvious at this point.
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Instead of just ranting at the terrible logic being used on the forums, I decided to write out my thoughts in an organized manner:

 

#1) Tanks have better defensive cool-downs. Do you see any Marauders tanking bosses?

 

Answer: PVE enviroments consist of constant large attacks by boss mobs. In a raid, the tank takes so much damage that his defensive statistics make him a better choice than a marauder. Obviously a tank with better defensive stats is a better choice to survive the millions of incoming damage tanks are healed through in a raid night. A PVP environment is completely different; consisting of short bursty encounters. It is these short bursty encounters that make Undying Rage/GBTF the most powerful Cool-down in PVP.

 

#2) Undying Rage/GBTF really isn't that powerful because you can be stunned for the duration, and Force Shroud is better.

 

Answer: The power of defensive cool-downs and stuns are two completely different subjects. The truth is that you can be stunned during the duration of EVERY defensive cooldown besides Force Shroud. The only difference is that the Marauder will STILL BE ALIVE at the end while everyone else won't be; including the Sin who hit FS at low HP. Yes, everything is situational, but 90% of the time I would rather be alive for 4 more seconds in PVP. That's 4 more seconds for my healer to heal me, 4 more seconds to run the ball to the goal, 4 more seconds to kill my opponent before he kills me, 4 more seconds to stop a cap while team-mates catch up. And yes, Even the Sin who used FS is going to be dead, because everyone who is attentive enough to notice that the Sin is glowing yellow will use white damge attacks to finish him off. UR/GBTF is the only cool-down in the game that has essentially no counter. Sure you can stun the marauder...but there is 0 way to kill him no matter what attack you use. That's broken imo.

 

#3) Mele range attacks are a dissadvantage to the class.

 

Answer: Not in SWTOR. There are several reasons why:

a) Incredible mobility - Up to 2 leaps available which are effectively two ranged interrupts. Also, those interrupts are true interrupts. The person being lept to is stunned the instant the marauder hits his ability...before his feet even leave the ground to leap to you. Predation. 4 second vanish used as a gap closer.

b) The close quarters of objective based PVP maps nullifies ranged advantage. Even maps like Huttbal where range should have an advantage are useless. in fact its the MELE who have the advanatage because of their leaps.

 

#4) Marauder dps is about on par with other DPS. (Rage spec aside, which any intelligent person knows is significantly OP)

 

Answer: Marauders possess the unique ability to dish out high damage, while at the same time shutting the other person down. Unlike other DPS classes who have to basically use their one interrupt and maybe 2 stuns as skillfully as they can while they DPS race you down to 0 health, Marauders just shut people down simmilar to an operative coming out of stealth to attack. The ammount of Mez/Stun, and interrupts/Knockdowns combined with their 4 defensive discs makes them OVERPOWERED PVP contenders. They may have the absolute highest burst in the game, but it doesn't matter that your burst ability is 9 out of 10 when you can destroy 7/8 of the other guy's effectiveness.

 

***********************************************

 

My first Character was a Mercenary. I have since lvled an Assasin, a PT, and a Sentinel. My most played character is my Mercenary; who has BIS gear and 96 Valor. Next would by my Sin at 70 valor and mostly WH gear. I feel like I have a decent grasp of the PVP environment and I feel like there is a lot of bias thought towards balance about Marauders; who I consider to be the best PVP class in the game when played correctly. I realize that most people who PVP are terrible at playing their character, but I think the standard for balance should be based upon the potential of the class when played optimally, not the average faceroller. This is what I mean when I say Marauders are the best PVP class. The ability of a skilled Marauder to affect the outcome of a WZ is a lot higher than several other classes; even played to their fullest potential.

 

Phaser

The Shadowlands

 

1) the tanks can tank because they have a tank tree that give them passive defense and they use a specific charge/form/cylinder and none of the tanks have better defensive cooldown than a marauder

 

2) Simply no

 

3) marauders can leap and have a short cd on it, they can also use force camouflage to close the gap AND interrupt a cast and the stealth is broken by stealth scan ONLY. Also the answers you give apply to open world pvp. indeed a marauder have the exact same advantage not matter what is the battlefield

 

4) Not at all, look at any parse of any decent marauder. Maarauder is BY FAR the best melee dps

 

Also i fixed your post a bit, I was too lazy to fix it all

 

BUT If you read the forum a bit you'll see how snipers/assassins/powertechs/operatives healers/hybrid sorc/juggernauts are overpowered too so ya...marauders are OP like every1 but mercs lol.

 

This game is clearly imbalanced because 7/8 classes are overpowered...WUT DA PUCK

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BUT If you read the forum a bit you'll see how snipers/assassins/powertechs/operatives healers/hybrid sorc/juggernauts are overpowered too so ya...marauders are OP like every1 but mercs lol.

 

This game is clearly imbalanced because 7/8 classes are overpowered...WUT DA PUCK

 

Who is complaining that guardians and GS are OP? Also, while a healing scoundrel might be considered OP, nobody considers dps scoundrels OP. Nobody is claiming sages are OP either. Bubble stun is what's OP, and that is only because it's bugged and not working properly.

Edited by Smashbrother
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