So it's melee fault that you use a bad strat, that makes the content harder then what it needs to be?

No, it's melee's fault that a new strat is required.

Again: All content CAN be done with ALL melee DPS. HOWEVER it requires more coordination and typing LFG in chat isn't likely to be a run with guildies who all use Vent. Coordination overcomes the weaknesses of melee but PUGs aren't usually coordinated.

I have no issues running content with all melee DPS IF I know the players and they are good. PUGs provide an unknown and I don't want to risk repeated wiping and wasting of my time on an unknown when I could get a rDPS and have to worry about that less.

Ranged vs Melee is very much like Geared vs Ungeared. It's possible to do it, ranged (or geared) just gives you more margin for error. PUGs are all about having the biggest margin for error.

 

PVP I don't know why you would play a mdps that isn't a marauder/sentinel.

 

Ok feel the need to step in there in defense of Jedi Shadows (and Sith Assasins) these guys rock in PvP (I know my main Alt is a Shadow!). A good mix of ranged and Melee attacks, AoE Knock Back, force speed, Stealth, force pull, limited self healing, 3 CCs and 2 CC breakers (well the 2nd doesn't break, but it does provide some protection against CCs and debuffs), heck we even get Guard and Taunts and a couple of defensive CDs so we can semi Tank if we need to, probably the most adaptable class in the game IMHO

Ok feel the need to step in there in defense of Jedi Shadows (and Sith Assasins) these guys rock in PvP (I know my main Alt is a Shadow!). A good mix of ranged and Melee attacks, AoE Knock Back, force speed, Stealth, force pull, limited self healing, 3 CCs and 2 CC breakers (well the 2nd doesn't break, but it does provide some protection against CCs and debuffs), heck we even get Guard and Taunts and a couple of defensive CDs so we can semi Tank if we need to, probably the most adaptable class in the game IMHO

The Shadows who PvP are mainly hybrid tanks, not MDPS. MDPS Shadows would be Infilitration and Balance, who are mostly absent from competitive play (because the tank hybrid vastly outperforms them).

So it's melee fault that you use a bad strat, that makes the content harder then what it needs to be?

Just to clarify, your point is that the tank should still stay in the middle and use perfect positioning? Viable, but pretty hard for average players.

Really your whole argument that the content is easy so who cares is pretty lame and elitist. Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it's easy for everyone.

The whole point of this off-topic side-thread is that there are a ton of fights where having ranged is somewhat to significantly easier, mechanics wise, but no fights where melee is easier. That's a big imbalance.

After having some practice, I'm certain we could one-shot Zorn and Toth with all melee dps next time. We just needed some practice.

Melee dps can swap after Toth leaps, so no one is attacking Zorn with fearful. Okay, no biggie. However, melee classes that rely on DoT damage have to forego using those attacks on Zorn when Toth is getting ready to leap. Ranged need not worry.

please remember this is about MELEE DPS not MARAUDER DPS. You need to consider Shadows, Scoundrels, Guardians and Vanguards. Individual classes have benefits but melee as a whole does not.

Also the fire does not hit hard if you don't get hit by it or you use you defensive cooldowns and cleanse when getting hit by it.

The term "rdps" was created because ranged dps is preferable in most operation/flash point situations, especially when in a pug. The reason for this is it's often easier to tank and heal when the dps aren't getting hit with AOE damage from bosses. (see LR-5 or Heavy Fabricator). This isn't to say melee classes are bad, in fact marauder assassin and powertech(and their republic counterparts) can out dps the rest, but it usually makes for a smoother run without them.

 

Having said that, it's a bit of a mystery to me why people have now taken to spamming general chat with "mdps LFG" etc. I appreciate your honesty, but you should know that isn't helping you find a group.

 

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

With my op healer I generally prefer to be responsible for the melee dps (and offtank) in a raid with an even ranged/melee split, as they tend to be clumped together, which is perfect for recuperative nano.

 

PVP I don't know why you would play a mdps that isn't a marauder/sentinel.

If powertechs count, all specs are useful in pvp and have some strengths that marauders don't.

Melee dps can swap after Toth leaps, so no one is attacking Zorn with fearful. Okay, no biggie. However, melee classes that rely on DoT damage have to forego using those attacks on Zorn when Toth is getting ready to leap. Ranged need not worry.

Once again bad information being based around in this thread. Zorn drops all dots on him when he does fearful. How did you think lethality snipers, madness sorcs, dps zorn?

Once again bad information being based around in this thread. Zorn drops all dots on him when he does fearful. How did you think lethality snipers, madness sorcs, dps zorn?

You're claiming bad info is being passed out and then passing out bad info. DoTs don't drop off Zorn when the leap happens. Snipers and Sorcs would/should be backing up to avoid fearful or not applying DoTs in the last few percent.

Now ranged has to back up like 5m. Melee has to back up 35m to avoid fearful. Guardian/Jugg can do that almost instantly and Sin/Shadow can cover it pretty quick but other melee can't. Some melee can make up for that increased downtime with higher DPS (Marauders) but others can't (Operative).

So the next time I see rDPS needed I should show up with my Shadow or my Scoundrel? Sorry I would get the boot right away. Shadow DPS is Melee DPS. Force Breech and Project hit pretty hard from range, but only if you first set them up with mDPS first So Shadow DPS = Melee DPS. It is just like every class in the game. If you know your abilities and what they do, then mDPS is just as easy as rDPS. If you don't then, yes rDPS is easier.

 

Also the fire does not hit hard if you don't get hit by it or you use you defensive cooldowns and cleanse when getting hit by it.

Shadow and Scoundrel have 30m abilities. That DOES NOT make them ranged DPS. Ranged DPS can be just as effective at 29m as they can at 1m.

I said mDPS isn't Marauder DPS because that is the class people keep using as an example of melee DPS being able to perform. It's like saying humans can't outrun a car. Usain Bolt can but generally humans can't.

Thread got a little derailed. I know good melee players are good, but they're usually not the ones in general spamming "LFG mdps". If I was them, I'd just say "dps", or "marauder", not mdps.

Yeah, I have a marauder and I never advertise it as "melee dps" I just say "dps" hoping I can get away with it

Though I don't it makes a difference (in people's preferences) if we're talking about Tier 1 FPs. Things get thicker for melee on Lost Island and operations.

While I see a lot of good points here, I think the main point the OP is making is tough to dispute; rdps make fights EASIER.

While this is true, I put this question to the community; do you want every fight to be easy? OR do you want to be challenged a bit by bringing in a mdps once in a while, forcing you out of your comfort zone and making you a better player in the process?

Granted I have 2 rdps classes at 50 on my account but my main will always be my sentinel. I have no problem switching to an rdps as required but when I see a group requesting an rdps vs. mdps for a given situation I have to ask myself; is the group already melee heavy or is the group just trying to go easy mode by stacking rdps?

While this is true, I put this question to the community; do you want every fight to be easy? OR do you want to be challenged a bit by bringing in a mdps once in a while, forcing you out of your comfort zone and making you a better player in the process?

Depends, if it's Lost Island guild run for example, it doesn't matter if the dps are sniper/sorc or operative/assasin. If we're pugging randoms, rDPS if they are available.

Granted I have 2 rdps classes at 50 on my account but my main will always be my sentinel. I have no problem switching to an rdps as required but when I see a group requesting an rdps vs. mdps for a given situation I have to ask myself; is the group already melee heavy or is the group just trying to go easy mode by stacking rdps?

Though I see is easy to blame players and pass judgement on them, the responsibles for this unbalance are BW designers. Is also up to them to change it.

If , for sake of challenge, you're going to purposely choose a set up that makes things harder, well, you might as well ditch you purples and put greens, because y'know.... good gear make things easier....

I still disagree that it is easier with range. It can be different? Yes. Range is easier for unskilled players? Yes. Melee DPS may make the healer work a little harder? Maybe, but my healer does not care. Melee DPS may require the player to play smarter to avoid or mitigate damage? Yes

However, to me none of that stuff equals significantly harder. I still would rather have 4 smart DPS players that know the fight, know their rotation, know their abilities and ½ way know the abilities of their tank and healers, than 4 rDPS players just because the fight is perceived by some as easier with range DPS. Just like I would rather have an average dps player that knows how to avoid and mitigate damage than the greatest damage producer, but someone that didn’t worry about their own health. Average DPS kills faster than dead DPS.

Good players make up for the difference between rDPS and mDPS. Although the OP point remains, if you had to pick between the two in a PUG without knowing the player beyond the toon, then rDPS is the safer way to go.

Safer, not easier.

You're claiming bad info is being passed out and then passing out bad info. DoTs don't drop off Zorn when the leap happens. Snipers and Sorcs would/should be backing up to avoid fearful or not applying DoTs in the last few percent.

 

Now ranged has to back up like 5m. Melee has to back up 35m to avoid fearful. Guardian/Jugg can do that almost instantly and Sin/Shadow can cover it pretty quick but other melee can't. Some melee can make up for that increased downtime with higher DPS (Marauders) but others can't (Operative).

?

If ranged stays between 26 and 30, they don't get fearful. Don't care what the technotes say, that's how it works. I've never gotten fearful at max-ish range on a sorc. They do not need to be at 35, much less 39.

But yeah, if they're within 24 meters and get fearful, their own pre-existing dots can and likely will kill them.

?

 

If ranged stays between 26 and 30, they don't get fearful. Don't care what the technotes say, that's how it works. I've never gotten fearful at max-ish range on a sorc. They do not need to be at 35, much less 39.

 

But yeah, if they're within 24 meters and get fearful, their own pre-existing dots can and likely will kill them.

Just last night I got Fearful while at 29 meters away from Zorn in HM EC.

I was on the cave side, way to the right of Zorn, so that when Toth jumps, he would be even further away (just in case).

I had kicked off Full Auto right before the jump happened, figured I was far enough away and safe. Fearful kicked in at the middle of the channel and I went from 80% health to dead quicker than you could say "What the ..."

I'd love to get an understanding of the actual mechanics, but I've seem so many conflicting claims that its actually kind of frustrating.

MMORPGs have been crapping on Melee for as long as I can remember.

So has real life.

IMO mdps has better burst damage then rdps, while rdps has better long term dps because they can stay on the target even during large movement.

mdps usually take more damage because of their proximity to the tank, but smart healers will use this to an advantage and use their aoe heals on the tank (needs healing the most) and mdps.

I play a scoundrel healer and a scoundrel dps. On bosses like fabricator and Zorn/Toth, things are harder on me and the healer from me. I have to wisely use my DCs on cooldown and know my spacing well. But on fights like SOA and Kephess (the droid part) I can burn my burst damage skills asap and really hurt something.

Just last night I got Fearful while at 29 meters away from Zorn in HM EC.

 

I was on the cave side, way to the right of Zorn, so that when Toth jumps, he would be even further away (just in case).

 

I had kicked off Full Auto right before the jump happened, figured I was far enough away and safe. Fearful kicked in at the middle of the channel and I went from 80% health to dead quicker than you could say "What the ..."

 

I'd love to get an understanding of the actual mechanics, but I've seem so many conflicting claims that its actually kind of frustrating.

Only way I could see it happening that way is if you or the other guy pulled threat just before the jump and you maybe didn't see it due to lag or something. That's literally the only situation that's ever given me the debuff and yes, my own dots invariably kill me despite not attacking zorn again until I wipe. I've never pulled back past 30m once and without the tank losing threat, I've never gotten fearful.

This game is not hard. Melee or Ranged it doesnt matter. Zorn and Toth is simple.. melee on zorn switch at 93% 73%.. so on so you dont get leaped on and noone ever gets fearfull... the puzzle in KP you can bring all mdps.. it doesnt matter should have 2 dps melee or ranged and one healer doing the puzzle that way the boss has the debuff from the fire at all times.... LI lol is not hard with melee honestly think its easier keep the whole group stacked up(obviously tank in front and dps and heals behind the droid) and you as the tank get to choose where the lighting spires drop ( the adds can be ignored and the fire doesnt hurt enough to walk around it) Lorrick lol again easy dont stand in green **** or in front of him after he yells hes got some tricks up his sleeve.

And to who ever posted somthing about ranged dps kiting the lighting spires on SC and FB... you doing it wrong if your healer cant kite and heal the very small amount of dmg being put out over there cut your losses and find a new one cause your is bad.

Only way I could see it happening that way is if you or the other guy pulled threat just before the jump and you maybe didn't see it due to lag or something. That's literally the only situation that's ever given me the debuff and yes, my own dots invariably kill me despite not attacking zorn again until I wipe. I've never pulled back past 30m once and without the tank losing threat, I've never gotten fearful.

If the bosses are properly positioned you can get away with this, however if they're off you're liable to one-shotting yourself. We used to do this but found it easier on everyone to just have the DPS back up for a few seconds. Also helps to avoid anyone pulling threat on the first swap.

This game is not hard. Melee or Ranged it doesnt matter. Zorn and Toth is simple.. melee on zorn switch at 93% 73%.. so on so you dont get leaped on and noone ever gets fearfull... the puzzle in KP you can bring all mdps.. it doesnt matter should have 2 dps melee or ranged and one healer doing the puzzle that way the boss has the debuff from the fire at all times.... LI lol is not hard with melee honestly think its easier keep the whole group stacked up(obviously tank in front and dps and heals behind the droid) and you as the tank get to choose where the lighting spires drop ( the adds can be ignored and the fire doesnt hurt enough to walk around it) Lorrick lol again easy dont stand in green **** or in front of him after he yells hes got some tricks up his sleeve.

 

And to who ever posted somthing about ranged dps kiting the lighting spires on SC and FB... you doing it wrong if your healer cant kite and heal the very small amount of dmg being put out over there cut your losses and find a new one cause your is bad.

Every time I read one of your posts I feel the need to gouge my eyes out. You seem to always ignore the content of the thread and then add in some boasting about how easy everything is followed by belittling everyone that does something differently without any justification as to why your method is better.

LI is harder with melee because the tank has to rely on the DPS to get the interrupt on incinerate. Now I can get it consistently within 0.5s of the channel starting. On my Guardian though, if I'm moving I am almost always out of range. Less of an issue on my Assassin because of the 10m interrupt, but real painful when you need to stay within 4m. So yes, I prefer ranged because I have control of my own fate. If I screw up I die (or pop CDs). I don't like it when other peoples screw ups kill me, especially in a PUG. Lorrick is a joke however you look at him.

With SC/FB it doesn't matter if you have a healer or DPS on the ground. You should use whatever is easier for your group. We have no enrage issues so having a DPS down there is fine for us. If you have enrage issues it is better to have a healer running around so you can increase DPS uptime. We also run with both Sage healers who can't heal on the run.

Ultimately, the best strategy is the one that works for your group. The easiest one is the one where you have the most control/least variables, melee tends to add more variables and reduce (the tanks) control.