What unintended target(s)? In PvP there are not any incidental nearby enemies that aren’t your intended target(s) -> all players that are not in your faction and are thus enemies are your intended targets!

imagine if my quell (interrupt) hit everyone in a 5yd range.

everyone not being targetted by me for that interrupt, is an unintended target.

bioware is simply clarifying their position, of how they view this ability, and how they want it to perform. you don't have to agree with it, but that's their position.

I guess I will just say this.. If it isn't broke then don't fix it.. I don't recall ever reading a complaint about Force Wave or the imperial's version of it.. I view it as pointless to change and nothing more than a needless nerf..

 

What is the point in decreasing the range of force stun, electroctute, and stuff?? 10m really?? So sages now have to run into use it?? What is next?? Decreasding the range of taunts for tanks?? Better not give them any ideas..

I'm figuring that it's not working as intended (which likely means they want you to pick the targets you're going to push, not randomly get kills by hitting some guy that wasn't fighting you into a fire pit), which is sadly one way of looking at something being broken from a developer's stand point. They're changing game play and want to emphasize Force Speed instead of the KB.

Yea, i agree with you on the second point. 10m stun for a FULL ranged class seems awkward...

I'm figuring that it's not working as intended (which likely means they want you to pick the targets you're going to push, not randomly get kills by hitting some guy that wasn't fighting you into a fire pit) [..]

Yes, but as i said in my last post: what about just placing some simple walls? How is placing some walls here and there not better than nerfing abilities?

Put a couple walls down in key spots and the developers will not have to go against the promise to not change Classes solely due to problems that occur in PvP.

Yea, i agree with you on the second point. 10m stun for a FULL ranged class seems awkward...

"hey look, a pyro is walking up to me from 30m away.. oh look, now he's at 10m.. jee, should I use my KB, or my sprint, or my stun"

Thank you. The efforts, overextended as they seem, are much appreciated.

If this doesn't work, can you *please* take repeated advice to eliminate all but the sorc/cons CC in PVP and do away with resolve completely? That class is the light armor wearer and it's too easy to separate or kill the guardian "help". that is IF you even get it in a pickup group.

Any invis DURING combat is really silly, a mini teleport would be much more fun for both sides, and this would give chance of enough confusion to get out of combat if needed and then hide.

Rest of it all seems really well thought out and interesting; can't wait!

again i say obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

You decide to walk backwards to reposition.. you walk backwards very slowly the 2 marauders standing behind you move to keep up their main hits that have to be done from behind. In PVE mobs react instantly to repositioning and you miss most of them as you are walking very slowly.

 

You decide to run forward and turn around... Run forward... spin.. fire move... spin... hit force speed... run away.

In a no lag world this would work great if the people you are fighting were retarded, or had no arms and used a pointy stick to mash their buttons.

In PVE again mobs reposition as soon as you move.

 

This is a bad change and pretty much you and 1 other guy think it is a good idea.

 

Obvious troll? or Fool?

 

Not sure which one

really....?

Ok, running backwards is about 50%-75% of forward pace, hardly impossible to get away from enemies.

In pvp, who's to say you HAVE to run backwards or forwards, there are more ways to go about it too. Left and right while holding right click will cause you to strafe, then it's only a quarter turn to your enemies, not nearly as bad as the full 180 degrees.

and in PvE... mobs dont reposition IMMEDIATELY after you move, they don't teleport or walk through each other, thus the mobs that reach you fastest, are the ones directly in front of you and those to your sides/behind you take a little longer, just long enough to activate a KB on them and knock them all away from you (you can check yourself right now, if you run backwards and use your KB, most mobs will get pushed in front of you, you get the occasional 1 or 2 that gets hit sideways.

And i never said i think this is a good idea, it's a nerf. A nerf that isn't necessarily something i like, but it's not game breaking. It does change the gameplay for the cons/inqs, however, which may be in the direction devs want it to go. It just means you have to slightly change the style of play that you got used to

I played both Jedi Shadow & Sith Sorcerer in 50 ranked WZs. Overload and Force Wave is so useful that it should not be 120-degree cone in front of player. If 360-degree is too large of a radians, is it possible to make it 240-degree instead of 120-degree?

I think the main thing the Devs are going for, is not being able to hit players directly to you sides. Anything greater than that 120 would hit those players. They seem to want a new mechanic for the way consulars/inquisitors use their KB.

Developer: "That Sorcerer just knocked my Sentinal back 8 meters! I can't even force leap back to him! And I was behind him! I know, I'll make his Overload only frontal in a cone shape, so I can get 2 more seconds of whipping on him as he's trying to turn around to use it. And if he miraculously survives, he'll knock me in range to jump back, smash him down and finsh his sorry behind.."

 

Overload a frontal cone shape attack, fine. Make Smash only frontal, and put Sweeping Slash back to only frontal.

Reduce the range of Electrocute? Fine, make ravage interuptable.

 

Seriously BioWare and Electronic Arts. I am extremely close to to cancelling my subscription.

 

You want to Balace PvP and make it an enjoyable experience? Make a class that is only PvP. It has no story line, and PvP's from Level 1. Have PvP ranges of levels 1-9, 10-49, and 50. Give it 3 trees, 1 heals, 1 DPS (balanced between Ranged and Melee) and 1 Tank. Select your tree at Level 10 (which will be your Advanced Class choice). There you go. Balanced PvP.

 

So much for your promise to not "adjust" classes based solely on PvP.

 

The ONLY thing I see positive in your 1.4 changes, is giving the Mercenary an Interupt.

That is epic thinking you have.

probably because they want it to be a defensive cooldown, rather than an offensive cooldown?

 

"hey look, a pyro is walking up to me from 30m away.. oh look, now he's at 10m.. jee, should I use my KB, or my sprint, or my stun"

Yea i get that part, but when i use it, often times its utility. As a healer, i tend to stun high damage dealers that are hitting the people i'm healing, gives me a 4 sec boost to the amount of health that player is getting back. Another neat trick is stunning the snipers sitting on edges in huttball giving ball carriers a chance to jump to them, with good communication of course.

Yes, but as i said in my last post: what about just placing some simple walls? How is placing some walls here and there not better than nerfing abilities?

Put a couple walls down in key spots and the developers will not have to go against the promise to not change Classes solely due to problems that occur in PvP.

I think i get what you're saying but I don't Devs want to eliminate the possibility of KB'ing someone to a toasty death, they just want you to have the intent of doing it every time instead of every 3/4 times or so. Or if you want to push people off bridges, you have to put yourself more at risk, because if you want to maximize the people you hit you have to stand on the edge and cant stand safely (or more safe than the edges) in the middle.

Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

Isn't that the whole issue with resolve? That 2 players are capable of taking you out of the game for 8 seconds while they beat on you? As a sage- even with the new changes - how am I supposed to survive with a marauder on me for 8 seconds when I can't cast or move?

Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about. [...]

Thank you very much for your post AllisonBerryman! I know that many people were wondering if their posts were actually being read in other threads, and your post is the sort of thing everyone needs in order to know that their complaints, suggestions, compliments, and comments are being taken seriously.

Thanks!

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

Thanks for getting back with the community on this.

However, after reading the changes and the explanation, it sounds like talking in circles. It sounds like the developers are just as confused about how Resolve actually works as the rest of us are.

Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about.

 

First of all, please do keep in mind that reading about changes and experiencing them can be different. We are looking forward to your feedback once you've had some time to see these changes when the PTS becomes available!

 

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

 

What this change actually does is make "wasted" control not build extraneous Resolve. Once this change goes live, two well-coordinated players will not be able to control a target for any longer than they ever were able to before. In the live game and after this change, the optimal control strategy is and will continue to be "player B uses his control after player A's control has worn off." The only change is that two uncoordinated players aren't unduly and additionally punished for wasting their control.

 

 

 

Consider the following examples under the new system:

 

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

Consider those same examples under the old system:

 

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

 

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

so what about the chain stuns? I'm pretty sure, the majority of the PVPers in this game hate being stunned for the full 8 seconds and then dying.

Thanks for getting back with the community on this.

 

However, after reading the changes and the explanation, it sounds like talking in circles. It sounds like the developers are just as confused about how Resolve actually works as the rest of us are.

Touché brother...

And what about buffs for tank assassin? Can't read it anywhere... Must be that 1 minute on force cloak. Wooow...

I think i get what you're saying but I don't Devs want to eliminate the possibility of KB'ing someone to a toasty death, they just want you to have the intent of doing it every time instead of every 3/4 times or so. Or if you want to push people off bridges, you have to put yourself more at risk, because if you want to maximize the people you hit you have to stand on the edge and cant stand safely (or more safe than the edges) in the middle.

As a ranged squishy class you are already putting yourself at risk by running up to the group of enemy players in order to push them off. Those enemy players all have the chance to stun you or to push you off before you push them off.

Another thing about the 360 degree push off -> that only works on a walkway or bridge. Not on a cliff: as those behind you just get pushed further on land - not off of the cliff.

Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about.

 

First of all, please do keep in mind that reading about changes and experiencing them can be different. We are looking forward to your feedback once you've had some time to see these changes when the PTS becomes available!

 

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

 

What this change actually does is make "wasted" control not build extraneous Resolve. Once this change goes live, two well-coordinated players will not be able to control a target for any longer than they ever were able to before. In the live game and after this change, the optimal control strategy is and will continue to be "player B uses his control after player A's control has worn off." The only change is that two uncoordinated players aren't unduly and additionally punished for wasting their control.

 

 

 

Consider the following examples under the new system:

 

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

Consider those same examples under the old system:

 

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

 

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

Even though I am against the change your post is appreciated.

the problem, as always, is perspective.

the players complaining about it are seeing it from the perspective of "i was just 100-0'd by 4 people while completely stunned, and resolve did nothing for me until i was dead"

meanwhile, bioware is looking at it from a 2v1 type scenario, where 2 players coordinated attacking 1 is able to shut him down and kill him, which is working as intended.

there's a gap here that neither side seems to want to look at, and instead, clinging to the extremes.

The changes you are making to stuns / CCs as far as range goes, also impacts the value of "Heroic Moment".

Did anyone on your dev team even consider this?

so what about the chain stuns? I'm pretty sure, the majority of the PVPers in this game hate being stunned for the full 8 seconds and then dying.

doing both- at least pre-50 i'm usualy low health before reolve kicks in and die 1-2seconds later after chain stuned

The changes you are making to stuns / CCs as far as range goes, also impacts the value of "Heroic Moment".

 

Did anyone on your dev team even consider this?

I am convinced that they have a dart board labelled with all of the classes and nerf whatever 2 classes that the dart(s) lands closest to. A couple of these nerfs are non sensical to me and this is the best that I can rationalize it.

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

So more stuns then. Under the old system, Resolve built faster because overlapping effects added to resolve whether they increased stun-time or not. Under the new system, overlapping stuns don't add up and you have to actually be stunned for resolve to go up.

I thought reduction of stuns was the goal.

Consider the following examples under the new system:

 

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

Consider those same examples under the old system:

 

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

 

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

I'm not sure if it's just me but it seems like under the new system, a person can be stunned longer without the resolve bar filling. Is that really the desired result? Because that's not what people are complaining about with the resolve system...

Again, these changes make me wonder if the devs really play their own game.