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Hardmode Flashpoints; No loot variance for premade groups


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Don't know why you are being sarcastic.

 

The system is random, and is working as intended for pretty much everyone else out there. I've done all the content in all the modes and drops have been consistently random.

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I have run False Emperor 6 times. Two of those times it has been a set of guildies. I am a guardian tank, we have a dps Shadow, a dps sage, and a Commando healer. The other 4 times we have had to swap in either a scoundrel or sage for the healer.

 

We have seen the trooper piece drop 4 times (all 4 of the times we did not have a trooper present), the smuggler piece drop one of the times we had our trooper, and the consular piece once.

 

That means that out of 6 runs our group has seen one usable piece for anyone.

 

That seems a little screwy to me. I know it could just be bad luck, but it really makes me want to scream when this happens over and over.

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Don't know why you are being sarcastic.

 

The system is random, and is working as intended for pretty much everyone else out there. I've done all the content in all the modes and drops have been consistently random.

 

Were you running with the exact same group each time? That is what appears to be affecting the randomness.

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I've done FE with a group of 4 bounty hunters and got almost an entire set of operative gear 5 or 6 times in a row (a lot of happy mako's in my guild).

 

We tell our operative healer this and he joins us and we get 1 BH drop and the rest inquistors stuff.

 

After all that I ran with PT, Merc, Sorc, Op and got all Bounty hunter drops (which i roll crappy on and got 0)

 

Moral of story: RNG is a batch!

Edited by K_Schrimer
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Hey all,

 

Our standard group has been running hardmodes for the last 2 weeks. It's typically a guardian tank, sage healer, commando dps, and sentinel dps. We are seeing next to zero variance in drops when running with this premade group.

 

The couple times we have swapped out a member or two, is the only time we've seen different drops.

 

Take False Emperor for example. We've run it 13 times and seen the smuggler jacket 11 of those times. Twice it's been the Trooper jacket and those 2 times we had swapped out members.

 

Are other premade groups seeing this? Don't bother telling me random is random. I know how streaks are possible, but I'd love to know if other people that run with the SAME GROUP are seeing very little variance in drops.

 

Cheers!

 

Did you record every other drop as well? Because that data is significant otherwise you're just cherry-picking which RNG results you don't like and ignoring the rest.

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Adding my group to the list.

 

Juggernaut DPS

Powertech Tank

Sorc heals

Mercenary DPS/Marauder DPS (interchangeable depending on which is on)

 

We run 2-3 HM every day an excess of 50 runs and have had 43 of the columi drops be for agent/smuggler I have fully 2 columi companions (vette and quinn) and my whole group is that way we are getting around 90% agent drops with no agent present. I feel the tokens should only drop if you have the appropriate class I don't care if I lose a drop to someone else there but to have so many drops nobody can use is ridiculous.

 

Update:

 

I have worked over this problem slightly and found a workable solution.

 

By switching only the powertech tank to an assassin we receive mostly SW gear.

 

By switching only the healer to mercenary we receive mostly SI gear (not helpful).

 

By replacing only the mercenary with sorcerer dps we receive mostly BH gear. (moderately helpful to get tank drops).

 

By replacing the juggernaut dps with an assassin dps we receive mostly SI gear (more useful than other version).

 

I have been able through testing to establish that group composition does determine Columi drop rates, just not in a way I can establish as a set pattern to put a group toger with equal chances at a drop. A bigger issue is that two assassins give different drop likelyhoods while filling the same spot. So I cannot predict a group composition that is helpful just take note of what drops for who I am with and when we get SW drops I run with those people as often as possible.

 

Possible design to require you not only to group but to group with different people.

Edited by havok_bloodcraft
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Just my 2 cents, try switching up who the group leader is in the group and who "starts" all the conversations with the NPCs in the flashpoint.

 

My static group has seen very different loot results depending on who is group leader and who starts the NPC conversations. We have been farming flashpoints ever since Mandalorian Raiders and we're pretty consistent on getting everyone gear even through HMs that we're running now.

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Did you record every other drop as well? Because that data is significant otherwise you're just cherry-picking which RNG results you don't like and ignoring the rest.

 

Yes, the drops leading up to the boss were nearly always the same too.

 

It really doesn't matter what the previous drops were though.. That 11/13 is so extremely unlikely to happen to one group, let alone the nearly 30 pages of people it seems to be happening to. Something is broken with static groups, no two ways about it.

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Just my 2 cents, try switching up who the group leader is in the group and who "starts" all the conversations with the NPCs in the flashpoint.

 

My static group has seen very different loot results depending on who is group leader and who starts the NPC conversations. We have been farming flashpoints ever since Mandalorian Raiders and we're pretty consistent on getting everyone gear even through HMs that we're running now.

 

We tried that, it made no change in our group. Do you have 1 of each class by chance?

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Yes, the drops leading up to the boss were nearly always the same too.

 

It really doesn't matter what the previous drops were though.. That 11/13 is so extremely unlikely to happen to one group, let alone the nearly 30 pages of people it seems to be happening to. Something is broken with static groups, no two ways about it.

 

It actually does matter when you're talking about probability. What doesn't matter is what anyone disagreeing with you says, because you're just telling them that they wrong anyway.

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Even though I know that this thread is going nowhere fast and will spend eternity bogged down in trolling and people arguing about the concept of probability instead of actually adding their data to the pool, I shall on a whim throw my hat into the ring.

 

1) Discussing the concept of "impossible" is irrelevant to this discussion. There is a non-zero probability that your arm will spontaneously drop off due to random subatomic particle movement, however this probability is absurdly low. This is what we call, for convenience, "impossible"

 

2) Discussing the concept of "random" is also irrelevant to this discussion. Computer programs do not generate random numbers, they generate an arbitrary number based on a seed input, in this case, unknown. It was once thought that bacteria were a spontaneous and randomly occurring phenomenon. Once more data were available, it became clear that they were not.

 

3) Due to there being a relatively large number of viable group compositions, if in fact loot distribution is skewed based on group composition, across a large number of groups of varying compositions, the skew will be obscured, moreso if the bias is generated by a transient influence (e.g. last two numerals of the server clock are even means there is bias, just as an arbitrary example). This means if Bioware were to look at loot drop metrics overall, it would appear to be pretty much pure RNG.

 

Anyways, with that blathering out of the way, here are my records to the extent that I recall them.

 

I have done a large number of solo runs through Normal flashpoints on each of my three characters. Across every single run, 3 in 4 loot drops were appropriate for my character's primary stat.

 

As for hard modes, my usual group is Juggernaut, Marauder, Powertech, Operative.

In ONE run, only Powertech gear dropped.

In TWO runs, only a single piece of Willpower gear dropped.

In every other run (I've lost count, quite a few), TWO OR MORE pieces of Willpower gear have dropped.

Edited by Vaulisel
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This thread demonstrates why statisticians don't take samples of 10, 20 or even 50 and pretend they mean anything. If you flip a coin 20 times, it is perfectly within reason that it will come up heads or tails 15 times. If you flip it 10,000 times, 100,000 times or 1 million times, you are going to be much closer to 50 percent.

 

I'm sure some of you have had really bad luck on drops. I'm sure others are exaggerating their bad luck, conveniently forgetting when their piece dropped and they lost the roll or when their buddy got an upgrade. Instead that just becomes another "trooper drop when we had no trooper in the group" in their head.

 

For what it's worth, I have run dozens of HM flashpoints, about half with the same group. The drops are random. Sometimes that works out for us, sometimes it doesn't. One friend can't seem to get the knight chest piece from FE. We'll keep trying.

 

Random is random.

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Also worth pointing out, most of the people who are going to post in a threat about bad loot variance are those who have the same anecdotal problems. The vast majority of the 99 percent of people who haven't had this issue aren't going to open the thread or are going to open the thread and immediately move on without replying.
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Random loot is not random; it is determined by a generator approximating something random defined from a set of parameters.

 

QFT. The parameters are based on something some suit and/or game theory/social psych nerd decided would be best to "keep people interested".

 

I've rebelled against the skinner box. I do not run flashpoints, and only raid two nights a week until I can find a new game to move my guild to.

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I really want to roll a smuggler, because I swear that Smuggler gear is the only thing that ever drops from any HM I run. Tharan Cedrax is better equipped than I am :/

 

It seems like operations choose a player and then generate an item for that player...I wish HMs would do that.

Edited by CitizenFry
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This thread demonstrates why statisticians don't take samples of 10, 20 or even 50 and pretend they mean anything. If you flip a coin 20 times, it is perfectly within reason that it will come up heads or tails 15 times. If you flip it 10,000 times, 100,000 times or 1 million times, you are going to be much closer to 50 percent.

 

I'm sure some of you have had really bad luck on drops. I'm sure others are exaggerating their bad luck, conveniently forgetting when their piece dropped and they lost the roll or when their buddy got an upgrade. Instead that just becomes another "trooper drop when we had no trooper in the group" in their head.

 

For what it's worth, I have run dozens of HM flashpoints, about half with the same group. The drops are random. Sometimes that works out for us, sometimes it doesn't. One friend can't seem to get the knight chest piece from FE. We'll keep trying.

 

Random is random.

 

You're not even trying.

 

0/10.

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i'll try to dig up a screenshot, but last week we had people /roll 100 for an alien data cube and surprisingly the first four people all rolled 98 in a row. several seconds later different numbers were rolled by others.

 

FOUR different people /roll for a 98. The chances of that happening are 1 in 100,000,000

 

 

i guess this could mean that astronomical chances can happen or there could be a problem with the rng.

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From the 1.2 patch notes:

 

Loot drops from endgame activities, such as Operations and Flashpoints, now take group composition into account.

 

Sweet jesus it only took 3 months to realize whatever was being used currently was flawed! ;)

Edited by DaveMcG
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From the 1.2 patch notes:

 

Loot drops from endgame activities, such as Operations and Flashpoints, now take group composition into account.

 

Sweet jesus it only took 3 months to realize whatever was being used currently was flawed! ;)

 

OR. Just maybe. It takes time to code things. Especially when you are working on other things at the same time. You guys want miracles in a brand new game immediately. Take a breath, relax, and be patient.

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I'm the only geared healer in our guild at the moment, so I've run with lots of different groups. Our progression group is the same as the OP's: guardian tank, sentinel dps, commando dps, sage healer. Our non-progression group is same except we swapped the sentinel dps for a gunslinger, and sometimes we swap the guardian for a shadow tank. I haven't noticed any significant loot imbalances. For Columni tokens, we've seen a great variety of classes in the four flashpoints that we clear on a regular basis (Kaon, Taral, False Emp, and Maelstrom). Just about everyone has gotten the two-set tier bonus within a week or two which seems more than reasonable to me.

 

I did run Kaon with another guild once, and they said the consular headgear drops for them 75% of the time. I find that hard to believe given the number of times I've run that place and the great variety of tokens I've seen, but I guess it's possible to just be unlucky. I did one run with my progression team, which doesn't include a smuggler, and every single piece of gear that dropped was for a smuggler. It happens, but it doesn't mean the loot table is broken.

 

(corrected for grammar)

Edited by NotDonnaReed
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i'll try to dig up a screenshot, but last week we had people /roll 100 for an alien data cube and surprisingly the first four people all rolled 98 in a row. several seconds later different numbers were rolled by others.

 

FOUR different people /roll for a 98. The chances of that happening are 1 in 100,000,000

 

 

i guess this could mean that astronomical chances can happen or there could be a problem with the rng.

 

Something similar happened in a convo last night at the end of Kaon Under Siege. Three out of the four participants rolled 116 for one of the choices. It was remarkable, but I doubt that it's evidence of a bug.

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