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A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)


Daemonson

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Some insight from someone who has been here since release, characters in minmaxed BH gear and 10 million laying around - and still does not support the repair costs.

 

Reason 1 - Trimming the market?

See, while I personally would have zero problems to pay the repair costs because I know how to earn 300.000 in a single day (Dailies) and would do that on a Saturday morning if I ever got close to broke, it is still quite a nuisance to me and is against the rationale of how a game economy should work. Yes, I understand that people like me and some others are part of the economy problem because we just amass credits and do not spend them easily on something that isn't necessary (or exceedingly nice), so we just build funds and build more funds "for hard times". Those hard times usually never come and lead to people being able to spend immense credits on the stuff they deem worthy of purchase, making the price rise and become steep for those who do not have their ways to gain credits easily. The solution to this however can not be the increase of repair costs by ~300% because this does not affect me anywhere close to severe, but it even further nurtures the existing gap. .

 

Reason 2 - Introducing a repair item via Cartel Market?

If that would really be the case, I would still not be affected due to the above mentioned reasons, however this would create huge amounts of frustration and grief for those who are not willing (like me) let alone able to spend much on the Cartel Market, since I'd feel cheated for the sake of others. This would actually make me consider if there's easier ways to get credits and since I can be a bit creative with that, it would not be healthy for the market (like buying crafting mats and selling higher later through various channels and means, disguised as crafted items or gifts to friends who gift them to friends who sell them e.g.). I'd make zillions out of that but I do not do so yet since I respect a fair market and don't want others to have the disadvantage. Also there'd be other ways to get the funds even easier. The solution is not found here either hence, since it will not fix any problem nor generate much of an extra income for BioWare since people will not be willing to continue that fmuch longer, so they'd rather turn to niftier ways and get quite creative at that. Seen that in other MMOs and it destroyed entire game economies.

 

Reason 3 - An oversight?

If this is an oversight decision I can forgive that, but I know quite a few people who cannot easily do so and this will not be "forgotten" within the next few months, people will remember this (sadly) and hold it against the devs for quite a long time. So I'd suggest coming up with more than just an apology in this case. Luckily we customers can be swayed with free-to-produce gifts. I am not saying you should totally do this, I just say that those who now have spent 400k+ on repairs are not the ones you will want to fuinction as multipliers of a bad PR since they usually are those who are in larger guilds or have substantial contacts and friends. They do talk about it, right now. So if I'd be a developer, I'd try to please them to a point where they start spreading good things again, instead of bad things.

 

This sums up my reflection on the issue and while I am neither affected personally, nor as the Guildmaster of our zany lot of lunatics, nor as guild (sticking together and helping each other in a close-knit community has its benefits) we still do not support this increase and right now I would not speak kindly if asked about it.

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There is no way this isn't bugged. As a sage in Campaign armor, I was averaging about 2k more in repairs per wipe than a Vanguard in full Dread Guard armor.

 

(We have exactly the same ratio or orange to purple shells. We both have all purple level 50 augments. My Campaign light armor cost on average 11k to repair, his Dread Guard heavy armor cost on average 9k to repair)

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Just canceled my sub because of this BS. I lost more money then I made tonight do to a few wipes in a flashpoint. This is unbelievable. Whoever manages this game needs to be fired. This was the last straw for me.

 

If you wipe more than twice in a flashpoint why would you expect to have a credit net gain:confused:

That doesn't encourage you to become a better player:rolleyes:

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If you wipe more than twice in a flashpoint why would you expect to have a credit net gain:confused:

That doesn't encourage you to become a better player:rolleyes:

 

You do realize a wipe is when the entire group dies right? You cant solo flashpoints.

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You do realize a wipe is when the entire group dies right? You cant solo flashpoints.

 

Yes, and the fact that you have to work together to beat the flashpoints and Operations is why people of similar skill levels attract and form guilds - no one wants to suffer for the defficiences of others.

 

If you're thinking I'm some kind of elitist you're wrong, I just dislike the lack of penalty for death in SWTOR. Even WoW had a better death system - Death is Cheap is not something I enjoy.

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Just my two cents in this discussion, for what it's worth. I run a fairly new guild over on the Ebon Hawk Server, and we're only just now getting our "first batch" of 50s into the sort of gear that you can begin "progression" runs in. As a Guildmaster, I've been getting excited, as have many of my guildmates about doing this. These new repair costs have, quite frankly, just stopped us in our tracks. We haven't had a year of hardcore raiding at "low" costs to build up a big guildbank and personal bank accounts. Simply put... we just can't afford it.

 

We also have one member who, while a very good player, has a less than optimal computer, and has lag issues. He respectfully bowed out of our raids this week because he didn't want to cost us unnecessary credits. Still didn't mean it wasn't upsetting. I've been running with this guy for 4-5 months, and now, because of this, his ability to progress any further in the game has effectively been halted, and he's not going to be renewing his subscription when it expires next week. As he put it "what's the point?"

 

You essentially have two major types of gamers with subscriptions: the really hard core people who have the time to spend hours and hours on the game every day, and those who play casually, and don't have a problem with $15/month for a little fun. That first group of players is likely also the group that is willing to throw more real money bioware's way to pay for fake money in a game. The second... is likely what makes up the majority of their subscribers, which, less face it, is who bioware is going to care about because they get money from them. A lot of their playerbase is also, likely, students.

 

I'm about to become one again in starting my Masters Degree. I'm not going to have money to give to bioware beyond my subscription. To those people that have simply suggested this, I congratulate you for being in a point in your life where you can afford it. I, however, look at that extra cash as a much-needed pub night with the girls after exams, or a healthy meal instead of ramen cups. So for what will probably turn into one or two nights a week I get to actually play... I want to do the parts of the game that I enjoy - raids. I enjoy the social aspect of this game - getting into mumble with a bunch of my friends, and tossing the breeze while the Writhing Horror impregnates our tanks. My raiding used to fund itself, as well as letting me get to have some other fun on the GTN, I didn't make much money this week in my raids, and we weren't training anyone new to the raids.

 

I've seen some really negative things happening the last few days. I'm a BH/Campaign/DG/fully purple augmented geared Sage Healer on my main, so I was alright pugging a few flashpoints and supporting some folks in tionese gear while they try to gear up because I can heal what the mack truck-hitters want to dish out 98% of the time. I'm ok spending some cash to help a new/first-time 50s learn the ropes. It's not been so long for me since I first hit 50 that I've forgotten how confusing it was, and how suddenly one mistake = a costly bill. I met some good people who beared with me, and gave me some advice on how to get better. This kindness in game has practically disappeared between people who weren't already mates. I, too, have seen people drop from flash points, or vote to kick with reason of "Tionese, we'll wipe" as the reason. This didn't happen before (Outside of LI HM anyway). This new attitude can not be healthy for the game.

 

Where has the camaraderie gone? We're all Star Wars fans, we're all gamers. We all play this game for different reasons: some like pvp, some like raids, some like rp, some like a healthy mix. If bioware adjusts so that more creds drop in a run, I think that this adjusted repair bills can stay, but one of my guilds' main tanks that's geared like I am had a 40K repair bill after a single wipe... that entire op was no longer at all beneficial to them since they no longer needed to farm BH coms, and was in there because we're helping one of our new healers get geared up.

 

Bioware may have shot themselves in the foot with this patch.

 

Some have just argued that you should "just buck up and do what you're supposed to" or "spend more real money" (which I personally believe as the real reason that this "bug" was "fixed"). But I say to you, what's more important?

 

Grinding for credits vs Family Time/study time/work

Spending more real money vs Having a healthy meal/social time away form the internet

 

I watched a lot of really smart people flunk out of their undergrad because of WoW addictions because they needed to grind to afford the raid. Game designers need to stop and think about what's really important.

 

I won't pay tens of thousands for a masters course only to flunk out of it. If my raiding can't support itself, I'll probably dump my subscription, and since you can't raid as a F2P... that'll be the end of starwars for me.

 

I guess the moral of my ramble here is "less is more."

 

Bioware, this was rather bad timing - particularly right before a major game update with Rise of the Hutts. Are the few people that will actually give you more money worth the subscribers that will leave?

 

Another well thought out post. +1 sir....I have also stopped raiding on my main and doing fp's on my alts, since they are in free tionese...no one wants to take the chance of a wipe.

 

Ea (not Bioware now..) fix..or give us some info .

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Yes, and the fact that you have to work together to beat the flashpoints and Operations is why people of similar skill levels attract and form guilds - no one wants to suffer for the defficiences of others.

 

If you're thinking I'm some kind of elitist you're wrong, I just dislike the lack of penalty for death in SWTOR. Even WoW had a better death system - Death is Cheap is not something I enjoy.

 

Wow you're so hardcore.

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Yes, and the fact that you have to work together to beat the flashpoints and Operations is why people of similar skill levels attract and form guilds - no one wants to suffer for the defficiences of others.

 

If you're thinking I'm some kind of elitist you're wrong, I just dislike the lack of penalty for death in SWTOR. Even WoW had a better death system - Death is Cheap is not something I enjoy.

 

Wich leads us right back to the question of playing-styles... everyone should have the choice to play with players of similar or higher skill, yes.

But the high repair costs also hurt those who choose to show less experiences players the ropes; if death ends up being too expensive, we loose those teachers, and we propably loose future flashpoint-partners because they are no longer tutored and cannot afford the wipes you get with a completely inexperiences group -> Some of them might never appear in Hardmode, so those who want to run them loose possible partners.

 

I actually do not know the golden way here, I feely admit that... best idea I have would be some item that discounts the next repair when you are running as "mentor"... the Problem is I have no idea how you would recognise said mentor.

 

Layna

 

PS: I support any system that means you can support your repair-costs without dailies ^^

Edited by LaynaTan
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Well.. Lastnight my guild spent the night wiping on Kephess HM in EC.. On average we spent about 200k per player.. That comes out to about 1.6 million in repair costs for a night of wiping on Kephess.. No.. For whatever reason we could not get him down.. Bottom line is, that is simply to stiff for our guild bank.. Not all of us live in this game and care to do dailies on a daily basis.. The gree dailies are already boring.. Especially Catalysis..

 

Please understand, we don't mind paying repair bills.. But there comes a point where you just feel you are being ripped off by the game.. I mean let's face it, there is no real Hutt Cartel, why is the GTN talking such a large cut of my sales?? Bottom line is, for the average and casual player, the current prices of repairs does nothing but prevent people from playing the game.. The mobs in EC drop next to nothing when it comes to credits.. That goes for all ops except for TFB.. To be honest, running an op should be a means to make money even with a couple of wipes here and there.. No.. I do not expect to make money wiping on the last boss like we did tonight.. But then again, I don't feel paying the repair costs that we paid is fair either..

 

:)

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Wich leads us right back to the question of playing-styles... everyone should have the choice to play with players of similar or higher skill, yes.

But the high repair costs also hurt those who choose to show less experiences players the ropes; if death ends up being too expensive, we loose those teachers, and we propably loose future flashpoint-partners because they are no longer tutored and cannot afford the wipes you get with a completely inexperiences group -> Some of them might never appear in Hardmode, so those who want to run them loose possible partners.

 

I actually do not know the golden way here, I feely admit that... best idea I have would be some item that discounts the next repair when you are running as "mentor"... the Problem is I have no idea how you would recognise said mentor.

 

Layna

 

PS: I support any system that means you can support your repair-costs without dailies ^^

 

Exactly. Were not all super hardcore players.

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I don't even run OPs or too many flashpoints, but I fully support those who do and ask for the repair costs to be lowered again.

 

Even I see changes in my playing style currently leveling up a smuggler, as I avoid difficult encounters now (didn't do so before) and chose to come back when I'm ridiculously overgeared for that certain mob.

 

Why? Because it saves me credits in case I die.

 

Is that really the style of playing BW wants to enforce in this game? Wouldn't think so. :rolleyes:

Edited by Lent_San
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I hate to break it to you but it's not the so called repair costs, It's the attitude and mentality of the players that screw up their own in-game pocket. For one I haven't noticed any sort of high repair costs in game so go figure. Maybe it's because when I do OP's and or FP's we take are time to explain things instead of running in with you hands half cocked.

 

The other day I was in a FP and I started marking things and CC'ing certain mobs and the tank was clueless, just started attacking the first thing in his path breaking CC left and right. I told him the marks usually are up for a reason like for CC'ing or attack order. He's like what's that, of course he did die like 20 times during Kaon under siege for just being plain stupid. So in summary if your having High repair cost, maybe you need to re-examine your play style and try another approach.

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Not all of us live in this game and care to do dailies on a daily basis.. The gree dailies are already boring.. Especially Catalysis..

 

I wouldn't say they are boring, the problem is there isn't enough mobs in the area. Need to increase the mob density like Section X was before they nerfed it.

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I actually feel really bad for you guys. That sort of cost for something like repairs would really get on my nerves. :(

 

I dont do much, actually, any unless you count general enemies, PVE. And i dont PVP. So i havent felt this burn. Normal gear seems the same. Even when its modded to awesomness.

 

I may not be in your position. But this REALLY needs fixing. For a lot of people WZ and FP and such are a big part of the reason people play this game. By bumping up the prices to an extreme it only serves to drive that part of the player base away. And from what i can see, from in game chat, forums etc... most of the playerbase does the above things.

 

I hope it gets sorted for you guys soon. BW need to get their act together on this one. I'm usually the first to come to BW's defense, but there isnt one for this. It is a big problem. As this thread shows.

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I hate to break it to you but it's not the so called repair costs, It's the attitude and mentality of the players that screw up their own in-game pocket. For one I haven't noticed any sort of high repair costs in game so go figure. Maybe it's because when I do OP's and or FP's we take are time to explain things instead of running in with you hands half cocked.

The other day I was in a FP and I started marking things and CC'ing certain mobs and the tank was clueless, just started attacking the first thing in his path breaking CC left and right. I told him the marks usually are up for a reason like for CC'ing or attack order. He's like what's that, of course he did die like 20 times during Kaon under siege for just being plain stupid. So in summary if your having High repair cost, maybe you need to re-examine your play style and try another approach.

I love these constructive posts.... "If you have high repair costs.... you're dumb." :rolleyes:

I don't think you've read many replies in this thread, no?

Edited by Lent_San
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I wouldn't say they are boring, the problem is there isn't enough mobs in the area. Need to increase the mob density like Section X was before they nerfed it.

 

yea.. because everyone LOVES killing mindless mobs...and here i thought people were skiipping trash and avoiding mobs for a reason :rolleyes:

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I think there's nothing wrong with higher level gear costing more to repair. However, if that's the case, then it should be more durable, so that it can withstand the harder hits better than the higher levels bosses throw.

 

And if the OP was true about a loss of 3 durability costing over 10k to repair, then that's just stupid and should be decreased. My thoughts are that he wasn't looking at it right. Unless every piece of gear that he and his companion were wearing lost 3 durability, then that does add up...

 

But yeah, this is for sure a problem, or else I'll never raid. I'm mostly a PvP'er, but I'd sure like to see all the content. Not if it's gonna cost me hours of time grinding cash to pay for it though.

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We need to start telling them what we want the fix to be or else they may just reduce it by 30% and call it a day and it will then still be twice what it was.

 

Return the costs to what they were please. We were use to that.

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I hate to break it to you but it's not the so called repair costs, It's the attitude and mentality of the players that screw up their own in-game pocket. For one I haven't noticed any sort of high repair costs in game so go figure. Maybe it's because when I do OP's and or FP's we take are time to explain things instead of running in with you hands half cocked.

 

The other day I was in a FP and I started marking things and CC'ing certain mobs and the tank was clueless, just started attacking the first thing in his path breaking CC left and right. I told him the marks usually are up for a reason like for CC'ing or attack order. He's like what's that, of course he did die like 20 times during Kaon under siege for just being plain stupid. So in summary if your having High repair cost, maybe you need to re-examine your play style and try another approach.

 

We'll take your approach:

Apparently the explanation wasn't clear enough for the Tank you ran with in Kaon. Those deaths should have been avoided with a clear explanation. It should never have reached twenty. And if that doesn't work, you exit group.

 

With that, the normal wear and tear, especially on a Tank will result in exponentially higher repair costs than a person who is a dps or healer. Why? It's very simple. We absorb more damage than the rest of the group.

Edited by Pirana
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We'll take your approach:

Apparently the explanation wasn't clear enough for the Tank you ran with in Kaon. Those deaths should have been avoided with a clear explanation. It should never have reached twenty. And if that doesn't work, you exit group.

Further, maybe the heal was crappy? They should have been happy to have a tank in the first place? If they hadn't had a tank, they'd have to find another one or provide a tank themselves, who then in turn has to pay the repair bills?

 

The list is endless.

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This is what concerns me now. This thread alone is approaching 1,000 posts. There are many, many other threads as well that have come and gone about this. Yet we get one response "looking into it". Since that response there have been how many patches but nothing addressing this. This game is bleeding subs daily still no one will say anything. It could have easily been rolled back, it was before so the mechanics are already in place. But no, they remain silent building anger and frustration in the player base...and continue to loose players. I hope I'm wrong but would bet they are going to "adjust" the amount or provide a market item forcing you to either suffer the increased cost in credits or spend real money for the market item. Either of these might make a few happy but will still leave a decent portion of the player base angry and subs will continue to fall.

 

Once it became clear that this was truly upsetting the general community shouldn't it have been pulled back? Is Bio somehow making tons of money and willing to take the loss of subscriptions for this?

 

Despite what some are claiming no one has ever said "give me my stuff free". Everyone is happy to work through the quests, flashpoints, etc to earn their gear. BUT no one should have to grind out credits simply to be able to play the same game they are paying for and enjoying just days ago.

 

For all the people yelling that you must work, do your dailies then do the parts of the game you enjoy the answer is simple. This is a game, it is a service provided for our enjoyment, period. It is not my second or third job. If I walk into restaurant A and they tell me I must go clean their counters and cook my burger before I can eat I am out the door and headed to restaurant B. I am going with better service every time.

 

Every day Bio refuses to say anything or do anything more gamers are leaving game A and headed to game B. This silence and lack of action makes no sense.

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Every day Bio refuses to say anything or do anything more gamers are leaving game A and headed to game B. This silence and lack of action makes no sense.

 

So true !!! They applied 2 patches since the release of 1.7 and none of them changed anything.

 

People highlighted the issue on the same night they released 1.7, 2 big thread was talking about the same problem.;they closed one Friday night when he reached +600 post and 25k views.. and the forum moderator asked to resume the debate here.

People complaining and explaining in details why they're upset, several of us cancelled their subs as we understand that Bioware and EA will only understand 1 language : MONEY.

 

How many time they had hundreds of post and thousand on views (and God knows how many subs cancellation) on a problem which is due to their last patch ?

 

A professional way to handle it would have been to include a "emergency fall back patch" on whatever parameters they changed which created the repair cost problem. Once done, check what's went wrong on the formula or whatever and later on apply it again after having double check that everything is fine again.

 

Instead we had a message Saturday saying that they're investigating the problem and... well... have a good week end guys.. we're off after a good and nice week at the office. Don't care if what's we applied impact your fun since Tuesday and for the entire week end. Be sure that we're looking at the problem during the week end ... what a joke.. Sorry to say it but you're just AMATEUR !

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