I feel like Commando heals are gimped when it comes to end game operations. We are built for single target healing, i.e., tank healing. But the problem is that operations in swtor aren't geared toward needing a tank healer and a raid healer like in WoW. So that renders Commando healers inferior to Sage healers in most raid encounters. I have yet to encounter an Ops boss that does not favor a Sage's ability to raid wide heal with Salvation.

However, I think there is an easy fix for this. I think the Devs should get rid of the limitation on the number of players healed by Kolto Bomb. And that is really not a buff at all. Back in 1.3 or 1.4, they changed our Kolto bomb so that it worked on everyone in a 4 man group (i.e., limitation went from 3 players to 4). That was basically aimed at making the Commando a little more effective of an aoe healer. Well, that did us litte good in a raid environment, when you need to heal 8 or 16 plyers at a time sometimes. I feel like if our Kolto Bomb could heal everyone in the raid, just like a Sage can with Salvation, it would level the playing field more. It also would not have an effect whatsoever in anyhting except raid encounters where there are more than 4 players.

I was wondering what other Commando healers thought about this idea?

Of course, I do not PVP, so if someone wants to chime in to give their thoughts on how this would not be possible with respect to balanced PVP, then I am all ears.

While a buffed Kolto Bomb is a nice idea, I don't feel it necessary since I don't feel we are gimped. I have played all 3 healer types in Ops, and I prefer the Commando. I can handle all Ops situations easily. You have to pepper your heals around, but your heals are generally fast and steady. I rarely have to worry about ammo, and you have the ability to dish out heals during emergencies. The same can be said of the Scoundrel/Operative, but burst healing can easily drain you if you aren't careful. Sage/Inquisitor has a nice pool at their disposal, but you can't deal with emergency bursts as effectively.

Looking at all the tools at your disposal, you'd think the Commando/Mercenary is the worst option, but in practice from my perspective, burst heals can be very important, and that's where they shine. I haven't had much problem keeping groups in Ops up, and if it ever got that bad, chances are the group isn't following through with a good strategy. That, or gear isn't up to snuff yet.

I'll disagree. We do not need an 8-man AoE:

1. For a number of cases, the commando AoE actually beats salvation anyway, since it is on a very short CD, and is an instant, so can be used on movement heavy fights (which BW seems to favor in higher tiers of ops). In the first tier of operations (EV, KP), salvation was king of the hill, and if you had two sages, it was pretty much impossible for anyone to die. In current tiers (TfB HM, EC HM/NiM), salvation at best hits 3-4 people in a typical drop, or maybe hits all 8 for a few seconds. But it isn't the powerhouse it once was. In addition, the sage single-target heals are very very slow...good for a constant amount of healing over time, but not good for dealing with burst damage.

2. I would support a small buff to the AoE, such as making it heal for a bit more. Actually my preferred change though is for it to become "smart", affecting the 4 people in range that are most in need of healing, in raw HP terms.

Commando's do need some love in terms of energy management also...such as a reduced CD on recharge cells....or allowing hammer shot to actually heal ourselves if we have targeted self.

It has been suggested before, but there could be a very easy way to buff our AoE healing in a non-game breaking manner.

Give Kolto Bomb two separate icons, one of which targets a person for the AoE point, and the other of which targets the ground. (The icons would share a CD, have the same costs, and out, etc) I think our biggest limiting factor isn't the amount it heals, but how clunky it feels to use. It would enable faster use, and allow us extra time to hammer shot.

I do not think this needs further buffing. If you allow KB to pick up the rest of the group it would make it grossly OP. You would have to reduce the healing output of it by half to compensate in my opinion. Since KB increases incoming heals for those who get picked up by it. Also it gives DR to those picked up by it in supercharge.

While people argue that a sage aoe is king. It is less useful in EC and TFB. Where most groups do not stack together. For example: first 2 bosses on EC have 2 bosses each. It is easier to split the groups into 2 groups of 4. The 2nd 3rd and last boss of TFB good luck trying to get all members of ops stacked for salvation.

What you should try to understand with KB is it picks up 4 people not at random. But the 4 closest to the center of the ground target. So have health bars above everyone, this helps. Also it is instant cast and can be used while moving. Position yourself pick up yourself. I always try to get max people picked up. I know it not the case all the time. But most of the time it can be done.

I don't think we need any buffs, but i like the idea of a smart heal on our kolto.

Kolto i awesome, 8-12k instant heal every 6 secs..... yes thanks. Prob is, when thrown into a crowd of 6-8 people and it hits no-one..... that hurts. Healing more people would seriously OP it, but allowing it to hit the people who need it most, would tweak it in a non-game changing manner but seriously improve our only ability to heal multliple targets.

Love my commando heals and have no prob healing end game content. Most of the times in ops, we can out heal the sages as it is.... scoundrels..... thats another story...... for another day........

While a buffed Kolto Bomb is a nice idea, I don't feel it necessary since I don't feel we are gimped. I have played all 3 healer types in Ops, and I prefer the Commando. I can handle all Ops situations easily. You have to pepper your heals around, but your heals are generally fast and steady. I rarely have to worry about ammo, and you have the ability to dish out heals during emergencies. The same can be said of the Scoundrel/Operative, but burst healing can easily drain you if you aren't careful. Sage/Inquisitor has a nice pool at their disposal, but you can't deal with emergency bursts as effectively.

 

Looking at all the tools at your disposal, you'd think the Commando/Mercenary is the worst option, but in practice from my perspective, burst heals can be very important, and that's where they shine. I haven't had much problem keeping groups in Ops up, and if it ever got that bad, chances are the group isn't following through with a good strategy. That, or gear isn't up to snuff yet.

IMO poor commandos lacking like hell vs other classes. I even mention it when I lobby for my main consulars , )

I have a lvl 50 scoundrel as well, you can't mention on the same day this two classes (commando -

If I meet up with them face to face in wz, I always fell like " hoho! here comes a bonus medal!" , )

They really need some buff! They where nerf to the ground in 1.2

I agree with alot of what has been posted, and I definitely see how buffing Kolto Bomb to cover an entire Ops group could be OP. My favorite comment was about making KB "smart," to affect those with the lowest health. I think that would go a long way to make us more effective in Ops.

But I disagree that Sages arent more effective in EC and TFB. On almost every fight; you can tailor your strategy to take advantage of Salvation to make the Ops much more easy. I know in my guils'd Ops, we have just seen a natural tendency to prefer Sages. It's not about placement of Salvation, so much as it is that everyone in our Ops group knows they can run toward the golden circle at any time to get heals. And it works really well. And I have just started to notice a small imbalance in Ops, tending to favor Sage healers. I have healed the fights, and we do okay, but it's easier for Sages. But I will concede that in the Terror from Beyond, and the first 2 fights in EC, it's not as much a problem because the groups are separated. But for 16 man, it is still a problem. Anytime you are healing more than 4 at a time, KB becomes a DRASTICALLY less efficient heal. And I still thinks that needs a tweak.

But, like I said, I think a "smart" KB would actually go a long way and would strike the right balance. Too often the heal from KB is wasted on players that are near full health.

EDIT: Also, to be fair, we are very melee heavy in our guild's Ops, which aids in the effectiveness of Salvation, as all of our DPS are usually stacked on top of one another.

IMO poor commandos lacking like hell vs other classes. I even mention it when I lobby for my main consulars , )

I have a lvl 50 scoundrel as well, you can't mention on the same day this two classes (commando -

l) , )

If I meet up with them face to face in wz, I always fell like " hoho! here comes a bonus medal!" , )

They really need some buff! They where nerf to the ground in 1.2

I'm really not talking about PvP. I'm talking strictly PvE. Commandos do have lower numbers overall if you look at raw numbers, but really that's a different mechanical problem at work. In Ops, I really don't see a problem, and I am way more reliable when I heal as a Commando than I am as a Scoundrel or Sage.

I'm really not talking about PvP. I'm talking strictly PvE. Commandos do have lower numbers overall if you look at raw numbers, but really that's a different mechanical problem at work. In Ops, I really don't see a problem, and I am way more reliable when I heal as a Commando than I am as a Scoundrel or Sage.

True, that its always depends on what class suits you the best (for example I roll better with my 50 Sage like dps, then with my 50 shadow like dps, even if I know that the shadow is out dmg sage in numbers)

I'm more a pvp player, then pve, and how I see this two playgrounds are eating each other when class balance coming in. Maybe commando's healing seems right when 16 ppl standing on each other for 20 minutes, but in a random fighting situation its lacking. He can't react with emergency.

Any way, every one know experience that commando class lacking, even does players are empathic about the class, who don't play it like a main.

True, that its always depends on what class suits you the best (for example I roll better with my 50 Sage like dps, then with my 50 shadow like dps, even if I know that the shadow is out dmg sage in numbers)

 

I'm more a pvp player, then pve, and how I see this two playgrounds are eating each other when class balance coming in. Maybe commando's healing seems right when 16 ppl standing on each other for 20 minutes, but in a random fighting situation its lacking. He can't react with emergency.

Any way, every one know experience that commando class lacking, even does players are empathic about the class, who don't play it like a main.

Yeha perhaps you're right. It sounds like PvE its fine, PvP its not. I can't really argue for PvP, I haven't done it in ages, but all I know is I smoke PvE without breaking a sweat, each and every op I go on. I'm just looking at this issue from the OPs question revolving around ops.

True, that its always depends on what class suits you the best (for example I roll better with my 50 Sage like dps, then with my 50 shadow like dps, even if I know that the shadow is out dmg sage in numbers)

 

I'm more a pvp player, then pve, and how I see this two playgrounds are eating each other when class balance coming in. Maybe commando's healing seems right when 16 ppl standing on each other for 20 minutes, but in a random fighting situation its lacking. He can't react with emergency.

Any way, every one know experience that commando class lacking, even does players are empathic about the class, who don't play it like a main.

I totally agree, I would also like to add that different people have different play styles and that you should build your own build and stack the stats that work for you.

I have no problem holding my own in PVP with or without a guard, taunts are nice. But it is more about customization, try building that tree without pulling a cookie cutter build. Build that tree to your play style, I know a lot of players will be like I need a build, someone posts one, and they like nah it no good, because they probably jumped into a wz not know what to do and just get facerolled. Take the time to read the tool tips and understand what the skill can and cannot do.

Also I will add in PvP when you pop the uninteruptable bubble, all because it on a 2 min CD does not mean it not useful. the valuable seconds that you are not dying is for help to come help you. If you reduced the CD of it, I would consider it pretty OP.

2. I would support a small buff to the AoE, such as making it heal for a bit more. Actually my preferred change though is for it to become "smart", affecting the 4 people in range that are most in need of healing, in raw HP terms.

 

Commando's do need some love in terms of energy management also...such as a reduced CD on recharge cells....or allowing hammer shot to actually heal ourselves if we have targeted self.

On the first note, I'm still resistant to making the heal "smart", mainly because I find the flexibility in the design useful as is. There are times where I don't want to necessarily hit the four lowest people in a group -- I want the ones I intentionally aimed at to be hit. This is because I like having the healing received buff up on many targets (not necessarily those low on HP) in anticipation for imminent burst healing. I also find it useful to keep these buffs on healers and tanks at all times, even if they aren't the lowest of the four at that moment.

The second note I can agree with, and it was my biggest annoyance with Update 1.2. I agree that our numbers needed to be toned down -- I don't think the ammo management (arguably the mechanic that makes Combat Medic unfriendly to beginners) needed to be made more difficult. I think the CD on Recharge Cells is appropriate. Instead, I think at least one, potentially two, of the following should be implemented:

- Bacta Infusion returns 1 ammo on use (similar in concept the the Vanguard tank's 31-point skill, Energy Blast)

- Supercharge Cells returns 2 ammo when activated (reverting a change in 1.2 which lowered the ammo return to 1.)

- Field Triage lowers the cost of the next Medical Probe by 2 (also reverting a 1.2 change). Alternatively, allow us to have multiple stacks of Field Triage, say capping at 2 or 3. That way with some additional prepwork and setup, we can have the same effect as pre-1.2.

- Bacta Infusion returns 1 ammo on use (similar in concept the the Vanguard tank's 31-point skill, Energy Blast)

- Supercharge Cells returns 2 ammo when activated (reverting a change in 1.2 which lowered the ammo return to 1.)

- Field Triage lowers the cost of the next Medical Probe by 2 (also reverting a 1.2 change). Alternatively, allow us to have multiple stacks of Field Triage, say capping at 2 or 3. That way with some additional prepwork and setup, we can have the same effect as pre-1.2.

I like these ideas but i think implementing all of these would put us back into the OP category.... 1 out of the 3, would be the small tweak i think the class needs. I like the idea of the first 2. If Bacta returned 1 ammo, that would be a big help in ammo management. Like wise, if SC returned 2 ammo when used, i may actually use it.....

IMO, i like the challenge that healing with my class already has. Anything more then a minor tweak would make it too easy. Anyone who says it needs more then a small tweak may need to learn how to play the class better.

Leave the class alone, learn how to play it.

Personally, I like the idea of KB's heal being made smart mainly because, if you don't want to heal someone so that someone else can get the healing buff, you can simply move the icon to not target them. It doesn't help that the healing received buff is actually pretty mediocre now compared to what it was pre-1.2. I would actually be happy if the devs just made it so that *all* AoE heals are smart and, when presented with a situation where there are more potential targets than affected targets, the heals go to the person with the most damage taken.

Another potential tweak to make it more useful in large groups while still being balanced would be to have Kolto bomb affect an unlimited number of targets but have a maximum amount of pre-crit healing that it can provide (a la Healing Rain in WoW). If the number of targets would make it so that the flat amount of healing is over the maximum amount of healing (which would be equal to 4 * the healing it provides to a single target), the healing effect is diluted such that everyone is healed for proportionately less (so if you had 5 targets healed, everyone would get 80% of the normal heal, 6 people would get 66%, 7 people would get 57%, etc.; it would probably needed to be capped explicitly at 16 to prevent problems with open world non-grouped stuff, but that's not really going to be factored into most people's play) while still providing the relevant buff (because 3% healing received is almost negligible, especially since it generally gets fed into overheal, and 5% DR for an entire stacked raid would provide some decent *specific* utility, even if it can't be constantly maintained). At that point, Kolto bomb, while not being a massive heal in raids, behaves more as a synergistic benefit for other healers during large scale AoE situations.

The major change that I would like to see occur is taking Trauma Probe off of the GCD and potentially also reducing the ammo cost by 1-2. Trauma Probe was *never* particularly overpowered and really just made up for the fact that Commandos don't really have a consistent powerful HoT that they can use for maintenance. Having it exist on the GCD even though it's, honestly, a minute trickle of healing means that it only ever sees much application when you've got spare ammo and you're not busy doing a hard cast chain. It would be nice to see Trauma Probe tweaked such that it's actually intended to be kept up *constantly* not just "whenever you've got nothing better to do and still have ammo to burn".

Another potential tweak to make it more useful in large groups while still being balanced would be to have Kolto bomb affect an unlimited number of targets but have a maximum amount of pre-crit healing that it can provide (a la Healing Rain in WoW).

 

The major change that I would like to see occur is taking Trauma Probe off of the GCD and potentially also reducing the ammo cost by 1-2. Trauma Probe was *never* particularly overpowered and really just made up for the fact that Commandos don't really have a consistent powerful HoT that they can use for maintenance. Having it exist on the GCD even though it's, honestly, a minute trickle of healing means that it only ever sees much application when you've got spare ammo and you're not busy doing a hard cast chain. It would be nice to see Trauma Probe tweaked such that it's actually intended to be kept up *constantly* not just "whenever you've got nothing better to do and still have ammo to burn".

Love the "Kolto Rain" idea and have already thought about this. New animations too. No more throwing a sack of green goo into a group, instead plant your feet and point that big gun to the sky and rain down a kolto cluster!! Similar to like a mortar volley, except with healing kolto into the group. Make it smart in some way too.

I really enjoy trauma probe, i use it when ever possible (which isn't always easy....). Mine crits for 1k of hp, so 10 charges costing 2 ammo is an incredibly useful heal. Ammo management is tricky at times but that is part of the challenge with CM healing. I don't like reducing the cost but maybe take it of the GCD to make it more user friendly when trying to reapply, would be a nice little tweak.

Playing a commando heal myself I can say I have no problems healing with a sage or a scoundrel at my side. Two commandos on the other side - is very tough to do.

Pretty much every combination of healers is viable in Ops, even 2 sages or 2 scoundrels except 2 commando healers. I think that pretty much says it all.

Playing a commando heal myself I can say I have no problems healing with a sage or a scoundrel at my side. Two commandos on the other side - is very tough to do.

Pretty much every combination of healers is viable in Ops, even 2 sages or 2 scoundrels except 2 commando healers. I think that pretty much says it all.

Sounds like you need to step it up and carry your own weight. I do not care what class I am paired up with. As long as they carry their own weight you will clear the content. BW stated this already that all healing classes are viable.

Playing a commando heal myself I can say I have no problems healing with a sage or a scoundrel at my side. Two commandos on the other side - is very tough to do.

Pretty much every combination of healers is viable in Ops, even 2 sages or 2 scoundrels except 2 commando healers. I think that pretty much says it all.

I'd accept that challenge. I'll come heal with you and we can see how good we go.

I'd love to run 2 Commando's together FTW!!

Ok, ,so I lvl'ed up a commando, just to take a closer look way this AC's heal tree is so infamous. (pvp player here)

Because its a big crap!! lol

I have lvl 50 scoundrel and two lvl 50 sage. Compared to this classes, commando's heal skills are useless trash, what is good for only one thing - support party in pve rides (to call it good is maybe way to much, but in that play ground its maybe viable..)

combat support cell's healing hammer shoot can't heal the commando it self (hes super heal skill is the scoundrels scan minus self use, what scoundrel use just to reload energy??? lol)

Trauma probe 10 charge?? lol for that amount of heal?

With his 2 minute shield with -30% interruption he can survive till he has energy, but just survive and wait for help lol : D - scoundrel can survive with emergency mad pack free + its insta + he can move and fight till that time.

I don't know if kolto bomb is bugged or what but it seems that it has 2m of range not 8 : D

I would say, this AC's heal tree don't need a small tweak, it has to be rebuild from the ground!

By the way, when I started to play at the launch and saw a player using "hammer s heal "in wz, I thought that its a visual bug it looks so bad!

I don't think that I will play my commando in the future.

Some positive experience - you can build up a nice dps from him (but you can do it with any other class as well...)

I always saw that they are week, but now I see way.

Ok, ,so I lvl'ed up a commando, just to take a closer look way this AC's heal tree is so infamous. (pvp player here)

Because its a big crap!! lol

I have lvl 50 scoundrel and two lvl 50 sage. Compared to this classes, commando's heal skills are useless trash, what is good for only one thing - support party in pve rides (to call it good is maybe way to much, but in that play ground its maybe viable..)

 

combat support cell's healing hammer shoot can't heal the commando it self (hes super heal skill is the scoundrels scan minus self use, what scoundrel use just to reload energy??? lol)

 

Trauma probe 10 charge?? lol for that amount of heal?

 

With his 2 minute shield with -30% interruption he can survive till he has energy, but just survive and wait for help lol : D - scoundrel can survive with emergency mad pack free + its insta + he can move and fight till that time.

 

I don't know if kolto bomb is bugged or what but it seems that it has 2m of range not 8 : D

 

I would say, this AC's heal tree don't need a small tweak, it has to be rebuild from the ground!

 

By the way, when I started to play at the launch and saw a player using "hammer s heal "in wz, I thought that its a visual bug it looks so bad!

 

I don't think that I will play my commando in the future.

 

Some positive experience - you can build up a nice dps from him (but you can do it with any other class as well...)

 

I always saw that they are week, but now I see way.

I am going to keep this short. ^L2P

I feel like Commando heals are gimped when it comes to end game operations. We are built for single target healing, i.e., tank healing. But the problem is that operations in swtor aren't geared toward needing a tank healer and a raid healer like in WoW. So that renders Commando healers inferior to Sage healers in most raid encounters. I have yet to encounter an Ops boss that does not favor a Sage's ability to raid wide heal with Salvation.

 

However, I think there is an easy fix for this. I think the Devs should get rid of the limitation on the number of players healed by Kolto Bomb. And that is really not a buff at all. Back in 1.3 or 1.4, they changed our Kolto bomb so that it worked on everyone in a 4 man group (i.e., limitation went from 3 players to 4). That was basically aimed at making the Commando a little more effective of an aoe healer. Well, that did us litte good in a raid environment, when you need to heal 8 or 16 plyers at a time sometimes. I feel like if our Kolto Bomb could heal everyone in the raid, just like a Sage can with Salvation, it would level the playing field more. It also would not have an effect whatsoever in anyhting except raid encounters where there are more than 4 players.

 

I was wondering what other Commando healers thought about this idea?

 

Of course, I do not PVP, so if someone wants to chime in to give their thoughts on how this would not be possible with respect to balanced PVP, then I am all ears.

My thoughts as an experience Commando healer, is our class heals just fine in any given situation. It would be nice to have a stronger AOE but that wouldn't be fair to sages who go into battle with light armor and the slowest force regeneration of all the classes. Sages need a strong AOE because they must hurt themselves to keep their force up. We commandos are walking tin cans that can take a beating and keep on healing. Our DPS out put is very high for a healing class as well.

A commonado healer is focused on sustain healing over time, with large crit burst. So throw on kolto bomb, prob and hammer shot and just keep yoru tank stable. You must throw on kolto bomb every 15 seconds or after every cool down to keep the 15% bonus heals up. And just heal like a boss.

I played ECHM, TFB progression raids in PVP gear and was able to keep all my teammates alive. I love commando healer, because of our strong focus heals. One the group takes damage at the same time, you should be able to two shot heal some one to 100% health while throwing out your AOE and field aids.

PVP commandos healers are a mf beast. The average hit on heals is 500k plus. You will see a sage hit 800K heal per game. But keep in mind that includes their self heals that they depend on to stay alive. Because we have a better survivalbility, a large portion of our heals are keeping up teammates alive.

Ultimately commandos are the hardest healers to master, but when you do, you are the healer that will turn the tide of the game.

Ok, ,so I lvl'ed up a commando, just to take a closer look way this AC's heal tree is so infamous. (pvp player here)

Because its a big crap!! lol

I have lvl 50 scoundrel and two lvl 50 sage. Compared to this classes, commando's heal skills are useless trash, what is good for only one thing - support party in pve rides (to call it good is maybe way to much, but in that play ground its maybe viable..)

 

combat support cell's healing hammer shoot can't heal the commando it self (hes super heal skill is the scoundrels scan minus self use, what scoundrel use just to reload energy??? lol)

 

Trauma probe 10 charge?? lol for that amount of heal?

 

With his 2 minute shield with -30% interruption he can survive till he has energy, but just survive and wait for help lol : D - scoundrel can survive with emergency mad pack free + its insta + he can move and fight till that time.

 

I don't know if kolto bomb is bugged or what but it seems that it has 2m of range not 8 : D

 

I would say, this AC's heal tree don't need a small tweak, it has to be rebuild from the ground!

 

By the way, when I started to play at the launch and saw a player using "hammer s heal "in wz, I thought that its a visual bug it looks so bad!

 

I don't think that I will play my commando in the future.

 

Some positive experience - you can build up a nice dps from him (but you can do it with any other class as well...)

 

I always saw that they are week, but now I see way.

Wow so wrong on all accounts.

Most people plant their commandos in one spot and try to deal out heals like a sage. Then you will see people try to run around like an operative throwing out heals and running away. Ugh.

People just don't understand the class, because it is utility heavy.

When players suck at any calls, they blame the class instead of themeslves. Sages are easier to heal with, but are not better IMO