I've been a Jedi Shadow since early access. I was specced mostly for defense, and handled tanking duties pretty darn well. But lately a friend has been jumping down my throat saying how hard it is to keep my healed, and that I'm more of an offtank than an actual tank. That shadows suck as a tank.

 

So my question is, what is everyone's experience with a Shadow as a main/solo tank? I've handled everything fairly well. But I don't want to continue playing as a tanking Shadow if the consensus really is that we suck as a primary tank...

I haven't grouped with a shadow/assassin tank since beta because I run with my brother and he's a guardian...but during beta, assassin tanks were just as good as warrior and powertech tanks. Maybe your friend sucks or you aren't keeping your gear up to par.

Can you give some more specifics? What level are you? How are you speced currently? How many levels under your current level is most of your armor? Are you keeping up your kinetic ward and using your other debuffs and cooldowns properly?

 

In general, your damage reduction is comparable to other tank classes, so if your friend has problems healing you it is likely going to be due to something specific to your situation (or your healer's, or both) rather than the class as a whole.

 

Finally, if it is hard to keep you healed *but* you are getting through everything without much dying, then maybe there isn't anything wrong at all!

Can you give some more specifics? What level are you? How are you speced currently? How many levels under your current level is most of your armor? Are you keeping up your kinetic ward and using your other debuffs and cooldowns properly?

 

In general, your damage reduction is comparable to other tank classes, so if your friend has problems healing you it is likely going to be due to something specific to your situation (or your healer's, or both) rather than the class as a whole.

 

Finally, if it is hard to keep you healed *but* you are getting through everything without much dying, then maybe there isn't anything wrong at all!

 

My gear isn't the best there is out there, but it's pretty good. And I was specced mostly in defense, with just a few points in balance to get the feat which allows for 2 rocks to be tossed when you use project.

 

Right now I'm level 36. I handled Cademimu, Mandalorian Raiders and everything before them fine as a solo tank. Taral V's final boss gave us some problems with the adds being too much for me to handle alone with the boss. And the heroic on Alderaan where you have to survive for 3 minutes against an attack from 5-6 elites gave me some trouble, too. But I'd assume that in those situations, any tank if going to have some trouble.

 

Yes, I also always keep my ward up, and run Combat Technique, etc. I don't think I've done bad at all. And my friend's healer is a Scoundrel, for what that is worth.

 

But I was looking more for the consensus/general idea out there more than just what is going on in my situation. Are Shadows made to be a real tank? Even our aggro abilities say "6 sseconds".. and while I hold aggro fine, it would leave me to believe we were meant to be more offtank like, than tank like.

 

I'm just trying to figure out if we were meant to be a real tank or not, or if we're doomed to be that spot tank role.

I played a Defense Guardian to 39 and started a Consular to get a break.

 

I haven't been able to play on my Guardian after leveling my Shadow. I went Infiltration until I got Tharan then switched to Kinetic Combat.

 

I think that it's easier for Shadow tanks to keep aggro and maintain it because their damage output is better than Guardians. Shadows also have a much easier time with AoE tanking than Guardians do.

 

My Guardian does soak up much more damage but I also don't have all of the Shadow self heals talented yet.

But I was looking more for the consensus/general idea out there more than just what is going on in my situation. Are Shadows made to be a real tank? Even our aggro abilities say "6 sseconds".. and while I hold aggro fine, it would leave me to believe we were meant to be more offtank like, than tank like.

 

I'm just trying to figure out if we were meant to be a real tank or not, or if we're doomed to be that spot tank role.

 

We were certainly designed to be a main tank along with the other two tank advanced classes (assuming you intend to go all the way up the tree). Does that preclude fine tuning / buffs / nerfs? Of course not - that is inevitable - but we need a lot more data and in-game experience to tell which tank class is over- or under-powered.

 

For whatever my opinion's worth, the design of the Shadow/Assassin tank makes it great for single target main tanking (great single-target threat) and worse for AoE tanking (with all the ranged mobs in the game, and he fact that multiple targets will tend to bring down the 8 charges on Kinetic Ward sooner than it comes off cooldown).

 

EDIT (heh I keep having more to say): 6 seconds on the taunt / AoE taunt isn't unusual for this game; threat seems to be a lot less based on taunts / pure threat generators and more on DPS than in my previous experience.

Edited December 31, 2011 by minervasunrider

Is your healer friend healing specced? Thought I would check, as when you level it will become progressively harder for him to heal if he is not.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rsrokrskbsZZf0cM.1

 

My current spec, sitting at level 45. Leveling with a Scoundrel specced healing.

 

I haven't had a problem with tanking anything, heroics flashpoints etc. Healer rarely runs out of his resource pool. In my opinion, shadow is the best tank. It suits my playstyle. In pve i have just as much average mitigation as any other tank and no problems holding any type of aggro (aoe/single).

 

The first time i played the class i was angry at how my long CC required stealth, but it's actually really easy to use. For short CC, we have 6? (not logged on to check) interrupts, which really make screwing over healers in pvp quite easy.

I just finished story line and hit level 50 shadow balance.

 

 

Shadow is not a tank. We wear light armor and can not take heavy damage from heroic 2 or 4 boss or flash point's boss. However, we can be off tank. While main tank is at main boss, we shadow tank adds or secondary boss. Shadow is dps class. I prefer you re-spec to infiltration or balance to get full damage for pve. I think def spec is for hybrid build for pvp. You will not get full potential power until you hit level 42.

 

We are the only class can pass all the mobs and go straight through to final boss. They don't know who's coming and assassinate the boss. We are a shadow like ninja.

 

My main companion is Theran Cedrex. He will heal you good. One more thing his hologram holiday is a big help. She will distract other mob with her sexy dance .

 

 

p.s When you heard "help" from him, don't forget to save him .

Edited January 1, 2012 by Soulbliz

If wow showed us anything it's that there are no offtanks. A class is either maintank capable or it isn't able to tank at all in proper content. Anyone can tank content that is trivial, it's challenging content (for your level and gear) that determines whether someone is a real tank or not. Nothing I've seen yet in SWToR has made me consider this false.

 

At this point I'd say it's too early to tell yet if any of the tanks are relegated to loltank status, but I'm sure some will end up being nonviable as tanks, just as I'm sure this situation will change from patch to patch as some tanks are buffed and others are nerfed.

 

Has there been any theory crafting or actual data parsing yet to determine tanking specifics? Until then if the devs did their job properly then nobody will know for sure which is the "best" tank.

Shadow tanks are fantastic.

 

1. Great self heals, especially after you get Harnessed Shadows. Make sure you have Kinetic Ward up before you use it.

 

2. AoE threat is a bit troublesome until you get Whirling Blow and Slow Time, as Force Breach has such a long cooldown. But once you do, its easy peazy. As long as the people in group don't vastly outlevel you, you should be ok. You also have mass mind control for those oh **** moments.

 

3. Stealth in, Mind Maze, stealth out, Force Pull. Great way to handle packs.

 

As an aside, you should be using all the CC available in your group. If you're having problems with a pack, or a boss, and you know your gear and level are appropriate, you're doing something wrong.

 

Someone mentioned the last boss in Taral V. Make sure you use console before the fight to kill two of the four turrets. And make sure the dps burns the droids most asaply. And finally, interrupt everything he has. The deadlest thing is that Hail of Bolts, that just wipes people out.

I just finished story line and hit level 50 shadow balance.

 

 

Shadow is not a tank. We wear light armor and can not take heavy damage from heroic 2 or 4 boss or flash point's boss. However, we can be off tank. While main tank is at main boss, we shadow tank adds or secondary boss. Shadow is dps class. I prefer you re-spec to infiltration or balance to get full damage for pve. I think def spec is for hybrid build for pvp. You will not get full potential power until you hit level 42.

 

We are the only class can pass all the mobs and go straight through to final boss. They don't know who's coming and assassinate the boss. We are a shadow like ninja.

 

My main companion is Theran Cedrex. He will heal you good. One more thing his hologram holiday is a big help. She will distract other mob with her sexy dance .

 

 

p.s When you heard "help" from him, don't forget to save him .

 

Balance and infl are not tanks, no. But kinetic combat is. And its a very good spec.

Balance and infl are not tanks, no. But kinetic combat is. And its a very good spec.

 

I said we are off tank. We take care of adds. Kinetic combat can not take out main flash point or operation boss. It's very useful in pvp.

I said we are off tank. We take care of adds. Kinetic combat can not take out main flash point or operation boss. It's very useful in pvp.

 

Then you're mistaken my friend. Whomever told you kinetic combat can't "main tank" is wrong. And btw, "main tank" and "off tank" were obsolete terms a few years ago. Get that nomenclature out of your head.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Rashne

Then you're mistaken my friend. Whomever told you kinetic combat can't "main tank" is wrong. And btw, "main tank" and "off tank" were obsolete terms a few years ago. Get that nomenclature out of your head.

 

If you have proof that shadow class tank main operation boss, I will take back what I said.

Have you ever tank level 50 flash points or operation boss?

Have you ever tank level 50 flash points or operation boss?

 

Yo. Tanked Hardmode and level 50 FPs with no problem.

Haven't done any FP's lately because there's not so many people in the 40's yet and i don't wanna screw up on my first run in a Flashpoint.

 

But in solo PvE i've come out of most battles with 90%+ of my health remaining when i have Theran Cedrax with me (elites also)

I said we are off tank. We take care of adds. Kinetic combat can not take out main flash point or operation boss. It's very useful in pvp.

 

From a pure numbers standpoint, the other tanks have literally 2 - 3% more base 'kinetic/energy' damage resistance, and we have about 5-9% more internal/elemental damage resistance. We have have 5% higher defense (dodge/parry chance if you will) then other tanks, and we have the highest shield chance out of any of the other tanks (when we have kinetic ward active)

 

We also have a 10% heal on a 2 minute timer (that also increases our self healing by 300%) we have a 12% heal every 3rd time we cast project (via TK Thrust) and our tank stance gives us about .25% healing every GCD (or there abouts) We're basically a class designed to main tank, like the rest, but we do it much differently then the other tanks. We either flat out dodge/parry attacks, or shield them, and the attacks that do get through are quickly self healed back up via our various self healing powers and talents.

 

A healer should have a much easier time keeping a Shadow time up then any other tank, due to the fact that the shadow tank can self heal for so much so often (the TK Thrust proc happens about every 30 seconds on average and it could happen even sooner then that, allowing for some very nice healing numbers while tanking)

I'm a level 36 Shadow, I respecced my advanced skills, from kinetic to balance. I find at the moment balance works better for me. I tried Kinectic at lower levels, I do still have the bottom tier of kinetic fully upgraded maxed out, while the rest of the points are now on balance. I can still make it to the top of the skill tree on balance too.

I said we are off tank. We take care of adds. Kinetic combat can not take out main flash point or operation boss. It's very useful in pvp.

 

Allow me to quote a paragraph from the FAQ section of "The Jedi Shadow's Handbook" - Located at the top of the Jedi Shadow page.

 

Q: Is the Jedi Shadow a main tank or an off-tank?

A: The Jedi Shadow is a main tank; it can off-tank, but there are no skill specializations devoted towards becoming an off-tank among any class. Fully developed, it has roughly the same standard survivability as a Jedi Guardian or Vanguard who was specialized to tank. The only guild in the general beta to test endgame operations used a Jedi Shadow main tank, however, and are quite happy with the Jedi Shadow's performance there.

 

Now, to follow up: You also replied with:

 

If you have proof that shadow class tank main operation boss, I will take back what I said.

Have you ever tank level 50 flash points or operation boss?

 

^Now take it back! *Smirks*

i just tanked a Heroic Esseless. It was hard to keep agro with the smuggler and other shadow. But I just had to keep taunting the boss, keeping up Kinetic Ward, and do whatever I could to keep the boss on me. It was difficult due to the mechanics of interrupts on Ironfist and so forth. But overall, I think Shadow Tanks are very viable. We did clear Normal Mode EV last week, but I filled in as an OT since the Guardian was better geared.

 

Shadow Tanks are pretty effective. Not in PVP unless we have Nadia out to kick some butt. But outside of the boring attacks (double strike and project), I like it. I just wish we had more attacks to use and maybe alittle bit more of an armor bonus from Combat Techniques or something.

 

Balance spec...pffft.

I just finished story line and hit level 50 shadow balance.

 

 

Shadow is not a tank.

 

You're right. Shadow balance isn't a tank. That's kinetic shadows.

To the OP;

 

Here's the issue I've been running to as a tank; most people ignore proper use of CC and end up eating a ton more damage than they need to. They think this is WoW. Also, I've noticed people seem to be afraid to actually use cooldowns and such. If your ward is not up, and your gear pretty much hasn't even touched, shield, absorption or defense stats, well you are making things very difficult for your healers, especially if you aren't using CC in the process which as a shadow tank, you can aid in the CC with mind maze.

 

Also, don't know what level you are, or what spec you are. If you aren't using kinetic ward religiously, stacking up Harnessed Shadow before you are using Telekinetic Throw or utilizing Slow Time and Force Breach, you are just making things more difficult all around. Just remember not use your AE attacks around CC or you break them.

If you have proof that shadow class tank main operation boss, I will take back what I said.

Have you ever tank level 50 flash points or operation boss?

 

My friend, Soa would like to have a word with you. Just don't ask him about his spanking last night. I think he is still bitter he couldn't beat up on a man in a dress.

 

Shadow tanks have a lot of utilities to mitigate damage, but I think where a shadow truly shines is holding threat. The only times I would lose threat on him was when he put me in a little box (mind trap). One Mind Control fixed that when I was busted out.

 

Just my opinion, but I think shadow tanks have an advantage on Soa over other tanks. This is because resilience gives you pretty much 100% damage mitigation on him for 5 seconds every 45 seconds.

We wear light armor

 

But we have the Force with us. Combat technique adds 150% armor to our light armor, bringing us almost on par with the clunky knights and soldiers.

 

I am a shadow tank, and I regularly succeed at killing things beyond me. Yesterday, I tanked an heroic 47 boss while I was 44, with not much trouble, and even compliments from my teammates in the end.

When I got my last dps companion on Belsavis, I started using her instead of Tharan Cedrax. Lack of a healer is countered by significant dps increase. I achieve my own survival even against elites with minions.

 

We shadow tanks are real tanks. We do excell at infiltrating the enemy, stealthing our way to the boss to assassinate it for the peace of the galaxy, but we are more than capable of carving our way through the many corpses of lesser and greater servants if the need arises.