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KP Hardmode ...?


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My guild and I ran EV HM last weekend and cleared it in 45 minutes. Tonight, we tried KP HM, and hit enrage timers across the board. Most of the group is Rakata/BH (We were gearing a few new raiders, but they had Columi/Rakata/BH mix atleast). Is anyone else having a bit of an issue? It seems that the bosses enrage very quickly.

 

I was thinking to post about it because maybe the mode is bugged? Maybe everyone that has had a problem blames it on the DPS and forgets about it? That is what we were thinking, but after awhile I got to thinking that maybe it got bugged somehow and no one is really thinking about a bug, they are thinking lack of DPS.

 

I'm not saying it CAN'T be our group, I'm saying that with our gear and DPS output on EV, we shouldn't be hitting enraged timers so quickly :/

 

Thanks :D

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My guild and I ran EV HM last weekend and cleared it in 45 minutes. Tonight, we tried KP HM, and hit enrage timers across the board. Most of the group is Rakata/BH (We were gearing a few new raiders, but they had Columi/Rakata/BH mix atleast). Is anyone else having a bit of an issue? It seems that the bosses enrage very quickly.

 

I was thinking to post about it because maybe the mode is bugged? Maybe everyone that has had a problem blames it on the DPS and forgets about it? That is what we were thinking, but after awhile I got to thinking that maybe it got bugged somehow and no one is really thinking about a bug, they are thinking lack of DPS.

 

I'm not saying it CAN'T be our group, I'm saying that with our gear and DPS output on EV, we shouldn't be hitting enraged timers so quickly :/

 

Thanks :D

 

EV hardmode isn't. KP normal is probably "harder" to be honest.Gear is irellevant if its badly itemised or is on players that have no clue.Alacrity on smuggler healers, endurance on dps, extra accuracy on dps are all dps/throughput losses.

 

The enrage timers are about the same between the 2 instances but the HP pools of the bosses are generally alittle bigger

 

It's not bugged it is a dps issue or a healing issue if dps are dying making you hit enrage.

It's a pain but the only fight where 2 tanks is needed is J & S and a vigi guardian in soresu can fufill your tanking needs and painlessly swap back to dps.

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EV hardmode isn't. KP normal is probably "harder" to be honest.Gear is irellevant if its badly itemised or is on players that have no clue.Alacrity on smuggler healers, endurance on dps, extra accuracy on dps are all dps/throughput losses.

 

The enrage timers are about the same between the 2 instances but the HP pools of the bosses are generally alittle bigger

 

It's not bugged it is a dps issue or a healing issue if dps are dying making you hit enrage.

It's a pain but the only fight where 2 tanks is needed is J & S and a vigi guardian in soresu can fufill your tanking needs and painlessly swap back to dps.

 

Makes sense! Thanks for the advice, I'll see if I can't get the raid leader to check all of those on our DPS and see if they need to adjust some of their mods. I figured it was DPS but just wanted to be sure before people are told to move mods around or buy different ones. I'll also see about learning what rotations they are using to ensure max dps output.

 

Thanks again :3

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How far did you get before you called it quits?

 

We finally cleared it, a few of our raiders had to go to sleep but a few from our first ops group were on and not on lock out from KP HM so they joined us. The most wipes were on the last boss, which was the problem, but we finally got through it which makes sense about the DPS issue since we did swap out players at that time.

 

We had (at first) 2 shadow tanks (One changed to DPS gear), 2 Sage healers, 2 Sent DPS, 1 Sage DPS, and one Vanguard DPS. (We usually run Commando DPS instead of Vanguard but our commando was out).

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We finally cleared it, a few of our raiders had to go to sleep but a few from our first ops group were on and not on lock out from KP HM so they joined us. The most wipes were on the last boss, which was the problem, but we finally got through it which makes sense about the DPS issue since we did swap out players at that time.

 

We had (at first) 2 shadow tanks (One changed to DPS gear), 2 Sage healers, 2 Sent DPS, 1 Sage DPS, and one Vanguard DPS. (We usually run Commando DPS instead of Vanguard but our commando was out).

 

Your group make up looks fine and grats on getting it cleared. Honestly it might have been a lack of comfort zone issue and maybe some strat issues?

 

Both these things should disapeer over the next few clears.

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Your group make up looks fine and grats on getting it cleared. Honestly it might have been a lack of comfort zone issue and maybe some strat issues?

 

Both these things should disapeer over the next few clears.

 

Comfort Zone issue makes sense too, I know that the at least three of us are new to the guild (I'm not new to raiding, but new to tanking, I was heals before transfers, lol). I'll keep in mind about the dps stats and suggest a look over next time we are all together.

 

Appreciate you giving the advice :3

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Throughput can be an issue on some of those fights with a heavy melee setup just because of all the moving you have to do (I'm thinking specifically Bonethrasher and Karagga since melee positioning is very important in those two fights, and that positioning is always in a state of semi flux), and as mentioned, with those DPS and that gear level I would bet it's almost entirely a comfort level kinda thing since you'll lose a lot of DPS not knowing where to move and when (both fights I mentioned favor ranged a bit here since putting ranged in the proper place means they don't really move very much and can maintain very high uptime).

 

All of that will be settled with practice though and then you'll be like "man why did we ever have trouble?"

 

Having new raiders and getting them used to all working together will also do wonders for performance in pretty much any operation.

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Our guild was having a bizarrely difficult time with KP HM this past weekend. There were a few new people, and our dps was weirdly low, but it was more than that. I feel like they tweaked it.

 

Going to have to get some parsers going, make sure everyone's pulling their weight. Which I feel a little crappy for doing, but if we wipe at Foreman Crusher... I mean, come on. :-\ That has literally never happened to me before this past weekend.

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Normally play as a healer. So I have done KP hard mode many times, with many different groups. If DPS is low and you are hitting enrage, check the groups augments. I'm betting at least some DPS is not fully augmented. Been on many 1 hour or less HM KP runs, but never been on one where the DPS was not fully augmented since 1.3. Even if they can't make/afford the purple augments, the blues will make a world of difference. However, since they removed the stacking debuffs, augments are a must for smooth run on anything above HM EV.

 

Personally I highly recommend augments for healers and tanks too, but for DPS they make a huge difference.

 

Note on Bonethrasher: You most likely know this, but like I said I have done this fight over and over and have only seen people do this the last 3 times I have done the fight. Have the tank, tank Bonethrasher right at the gate where the adds come out. This way the tank can taunt the adds under Bonethrasher and the group can AOE down the adds while still DPSing Bonethrasher. I have done it this way now both as DPS and Healing and it seems way easier and faster with no enrage issues. Less moving for mDPS too.

Edited by mikebevo
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Normally play as a healer. So I have done KP hard mode many times, with many different groups. If DPS is low and you are hitting enrage, check the groups augments. I'm betting at least some DPS is not fully augmented. Been on many 1 hour or less HM KP runs, but never been on one where the DPS was not fully augmented since 1.3. Even if they can't make/afford the purple augments, the blues will make a world of difference. However, since they removed the stacking debuffs, augments are a must for smooth run on anything above HM EV.

 

Personally I highly recommend augments for healers and tanks too, but for DPS they make a huge difference.

 

I'm mostly augmented now, but argh, that annoys the crap out of me. I kind of hate the augment system. It used to be an extra thing that you didn't really NEED to worry about. Now it's a mini-tier and an essential money sink - make or buy the kits and augments, plus another kit for every new piece of gear, plus pay to remove the augment from the old slot... Rinse and repeat with PVE and PVP gear or die.

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Gonna be 100 percent honest here.

 

You're overgeared, and hitting rage timers and not dying to mechanics, I'd be having a hard long look at your dps ( derp per second).

 

 

I'm going to assume you're not being a confrontational ******** and insinuating that I specifically am the problem. Then I'll reiterate that we're about to pull out MoxParser to see who's lagging behind, because yes, someone obviously has some derp going. I can completely agree with that. I call out weird gearing if I see it (our new tank is a good example - crit and surge implants, really?), and our healers WILL yell at you if you injure yourself stupidly, but I can't nanny people's rotations during raids. By process of elimination, rotation or talent tree point allocation has to be where the problem is.

 

It's just, it also seemed rougher than normal, on top of new-member weirdness. I can generally balance out a sub-par DPS toon with my mercenary, but it was not cutting it yesterday.

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I' Then I'll reiterate that we're about to pull out MoxParser to see who's lagging behind, because yes, someone obviously has some derp going.

You make it sound like using MoxParser is some type of punishment. Personally I would use it as what it is, a tool. I know my DPS suffers behind Watchmen and Knights in the DPS department on longer fights, but I have use MoxParser and augments to bridge that gap. I have practiced my rotation over and over so that I pull my weight in Ops. Still not a world beater, but I usually produce the 2 or 3 most DPS for the group and with my understand (from my main being a healer) of what order to kill, not taking unnecessary damage, CCs and stealth I'm pretty sure I am considered a access in the Ops (that or they just don't want to tick me off because my main is a decent healer). I've been told many times I needed to up my DPS or my rotation was wrong, but I was told in a non-belittling way and better yet I was told how to improve it. MoxParser is a tool, your group should expect it to be used as such to improve the group as well as the individuals. Knowing who needs the most help only helps the group get that person up to speed faster.

 

Now if that person is just lazy and not willing to work on the problem, then MoxParser will show you who you need to replaced to improve the group too.

Edited by mikebevo
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I'm going to assume you're not being a confrontational ******** and insinuating that I specifically am the problem. Then I'll reiterate that we're about to pull out MoxParser to see who's lagging behind, because yes, someone obviously has some derp going. I can completely agree with that. I call out weird gearing if I see it (our new tank is a good example - crit and surge implants, really?), and our healers WILL yell at you if you injure yourself stupidly, but I can't nanny people's rotations during raids. By process of elimination, rotation or talent tree point allocation has to be where the problem is.

 

It's just, it also seemed rougher than normal, on top of new-member weirdness. I can generally balance out a sub-par DPS toon with my mercenary, but it was not cutting it yesterday.

 

I thought he was talking to the OP actually =X

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You make it sound like using MoxParser is some type of punishment. Personally I would use it as what it is, a tool. I know my DPS suffers behind Watchmen and Knights in the DPS department on longer fights, but I have use MoxParser and augments to bridge that gap. I have practiced my rotation over and over so that I pull my weight in Ops. Still not a world beater, but I usually produce the 2 or 3 most DPS for the group and with my understand (from my main being a healer) of what order to kill, not taking unnecessary damage, CCs and stealth I'm pretty sure I am considered a access in the Ops (that or they just don't want to tick me off because my main is a decent healer). I've been told many times I needed to up my DPS or my rotation was wrong, but I was told in a non-belittling way and better yet I was told how to improve it. MoxParser is a tool, your group should expect it to be used as such to improve the group as well as the individuals. Knowing who needs the most help only helps the group get that person up to speed faster.

 

Now if that person is just lazy and not willing to work on the problem, then MoxParser will show you who you need to replaced to improve the group too.

 

 

I had absolutely no intention of being mean to anyone, but that is a point worth bringing up, thank you. The idea is to figure out what is going wrong and why, so that the game can be more fun for everyone. If I was falling on my face playing, it wouldn't just be bad for my group - it would be bad for me when I inevitably pulled down whatEVER group I joined, kind of making the entire game suck for me in the process.

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I had absolutely no intention of being mean to anyone,.

Very sorry if I seemed to imply you would, that was not my intention because I have no clue about you. I assumed you wouldn’t because you sounded like you just wanted for your group to get better.

 

You just made it sound to me like Mox was a punishment and I wanted to say that even a very average dps player (like me) should consider Mox as a tool to improve our ability and to make the game more enjoyable for our entire group.

 

I will say that you need to make it clear to anyone that is new to MMOs (again people like me) that your DPS number is not the only important thing. They still have to watch breaking CCs, taking unnecessary damage, interrupts, defensive cooldowns… The DPS number is important, but not at the cost of smart game play. I would rather be teamed up with the most average dps smart player than the greatest DPS player that only cared about that number. The most average living DPS player does more damage than the greatest dead DPS player.

 

Also if you use Mox, tell the group not to get the big head on G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator, the numbers there are greatly inflated there due to debuffs put on the boss by the fire. I wish I could hit 2100-1900 in every fight like I do there. BioWare that fire needs to be a legacy perk for 1 million credits and level 50 legacy. :D

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I'm going to assume you're not being a confrontational ******** and insinuating that I specifically am the problem. Then I'll reiterate that we're about to pull out MoxParser to see who's lagging behind, because yes, someone obviously has some derp going. I can completely agree with that. I call out weird gearing if I see it (our new tank is a good example - crit and surge implants, really?), and our healers WILL yell at you if you injure yourself stupidly, but I can't nanny people's rotations during raids. By process of elimination, rotation or talent tree point allocation has to be where the problem is.

 

It's just, it also seemed rougher than normal, on top of new-member weirdness. I can generally balance out a sub-par DPS toon with my mercenary, but it was not cutting it yesterday.

 

Edit: LOL I was talking to the OP

Edited by HauksbokT
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My guild is a casual guild and we don't use parsers for KP and EV since for tier 1 operations the objective is to have fun and not worry about numbers. However MOX is required for EC and onwards because the enrage timer is unforgiving and it is difficult to carry anyone who is not pulling their weight.

 

The raid leaders often emphasize that these tools are to help gamers to improve. Our guild does not kick people out of raid rosters immediately when raid leaders find their dps lacking. These dpsers will be given a few weeks to improve their builds, gear and rotation. The idea is to help everyone improve, and that itself should not be something that makes people unhappy. The thing is, no one would know what's going on without a parser, and wiping weeks after weeks not knowing why is seriously not fun.

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