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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR


Seena

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staying a twink indefinitely is not an exploit. if someone wants to leave a warzone every time so they dont level up to 50, where PvP actually has some semblance of meaning, thats their own choice. maybe they werent hugged enough as a child and enjoy trolling people in video games, it doesnt matter why they do it.

 

you get XP regardless of winning or losing. eventually, by finishing warzones you will leave the sub-50 bracket, and never have to see those evil infinite twinkers again. if you cant handle bullies on the interwebz, i dont know what to tell you. it is not bioware's job to make sure nobody ever hurts your feelings by repeatedly beating you in a warzone.

 

if youre whining this much about a gear imbalance in the sub-50 bracket, i cant imagine what your opinion of 50 pvp is.

 

 

enough of the whining. either finish grinding your wzs to get to 50, or level a different way. its not like the wzs are too complicated to figure out after a couple of warzones in the 50 brackter

 

Ugh... I had a long explanation and it didn't go through.

 

You don't recognize me it seems from the "Premade" thread, where 1 of my 3 main points is pretty much "Man up, gear up, group up." But as I've stated before, this isn't an issue that really bothers me. I respect the OP's right to bring it up if they like, if it is one that bothers them.

 

Where I take issue, (and thus keep posting) is people not calling something for what it is. I (and others) have posted several source documents, including the ToS, to better define this as an abuse of the system (ie, exploit.)

 

I don't have the drive to retype everything, so I'll go over it quickly:

 

According to the ToS, you are in violation if you "Abuse or Exploit: Bugs, Undocumented Featues, Design Flaws, and Problems in the game."

 

Not all exploits are bugs, as you can see the ToS clearly states you can exploit multiple things.

 

Finally, there is the logical progression of the game. The game mechanic "Leave Warzone" has other legitmate uses (Leaving a warzone for emergencies, disconnects, other content, or because you don't like your group), and it's use to stop from gaining exp clearly goes against the game's natural progression pre 50 (Particpate in Task > Complete > Reward/Exp> Level).

 

I'd wager that -if- there was an intention for players to stay 49 as long as they want, there would be a feature included in the game with -that- specific purpose stated. (Ie. WoW's toggle exp off feature.)

 

No matter which side I fall on the issue, using documents from EA/BW and logic any one should be able to determine this is an abuse of the "Leave Warzone" feature's byproduct and not it's intention... or "exploiting" a design flaw.

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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*snip*

 

i saw your post of the ToS earlier in this thread. this kind of infinite twinking provides no tangible in-game reward, and the average person should be able to maintain their composure enough to not rage at someone in their wz who is using an "infinite twink" toon.

 

the people who do that are clearly doing it to troll others, and are obviously getting a rise out of a lot of people (this thread is direct evidence of that). if people dont react, they dont get the satisfaction of trolling folks, and have to find another way to take out their angst for not being hugged enough.

 

thats the only "reward" these twinkers get; they enjoy making people mad. its pvp, if you start saying its against the rules to do things that upset other players through PvP, where does it end?

 

 

a nice solution to this, and something that is needed in 50 wzs as well, is a lockout timer for leaving a warzone early. 15minutes locked out from queuing. it will not eliminate the problem 100%, but it would make playing an "infinite twink" character much more difficult.

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i saw your post of the ToS earlier in this thread. this kind of infinite twinking provides no tangible in-game reward, and the average person should be able to maintain their composure enough to not rage at someone in their wz who is using an "infinite twink" toon.

 

the people who do that are clearly doing it to troll others, and are obviously getting a rise out of a lot of people (this thread is direct evidence of that). if people dont react, they dont get the satisfaction of trolling folks, and have to find another way to take out their angst for not being hugged enough.

 

thats the only "reward" these twinkers get; they enjoy making people mad. its pvp, if you start saying its against the rules to do things that upset other players through PvP, where does it end?

 

 

a nice solution to this, and something that is needed in 50 wzs as well, is a lockout timer for leaving a warzone early. 15minutes locked out from queuing. it will not eliminate the problem 100%, but it would make playing an "infinite twink" character much more difficult.

 

Tangible reward or not, they do it for a reason. The ToS itself never says it has to be for a reward, simply the act of doing so can be against the ToS.

 

I don't quite agree with the lockout timer for a number of reasons that have been stated in another thread, I think the medals giving exp would be enough if they decided to do anything about it. It can be rebalanced. (Wz's give 10% less exp, medals make up that 10%).

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Tangible reward or not, they do it for a reason. The ToS itself never says it has to be for a reward, simply the act of doing so can be against the ToS.

 

I don't quite agree with the lockout timer for a number of reasons that have been stated in another thread, I think the medals giving exp would be enough if they decided to do anything about it. It can be rebalanced. (Wz's give 10% less exp, medals make up that 10%).

 

that would solve the problem, but i would prefer bioware did not spend dev time on it; there are better ways for them to spend their resources.

 

the people doing this infinite twink thing are clearly a large minority. i have yet to see one while leveling my commando (i have done nothing but wzs and class quest, currently leve 37). i dont think that such a sweeping change is necessary to deal with such a small minority of miscreants.

 

if bioware deems it to be an exploit, ban them if they are caught doing it repeatedly. that is the least resource intensive solution, and i could care less how severe the penalty is since i dont do it.

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Reading all this crying... think I'll create marauder and assassin just for lowbie pvp, twink them aroun L41+ and leave them maxed at L 49 with pruple auguments and components, just to piss off op and every twinker hater... just for lols, siths and giggles

 

on other hand, it's a waste of time, so not gonna happen.

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staying a twink indefinitely is not an exploit. if someone wants to leave a warzone every time so they dont level up to 50, where PvP actually has some semblance of meaning, thats their own choice. maybe they werent hugged enough as a child and enjoy trolling people in video games, it doesnt matter why they do it.

 

you get XP regardless of winning or losing. eventually, by finishing warzones you will leave the sub-50 bracket, and never have to see those evil infinite twinkers again. if you cant handle bullies on the interwebz, i dont know what to tell you. it is not bioware's job to make sure nobody ever hurts your feelings by repeatedly beating you in a warzone.

 

if youre whining this much about a gear imbalance in the sub-50 bracket, i cant imagine what your opinion of 50 pvp is.

 

 

enough of the whining. either finish grinding your wzs to get to 50, or level a different way. its not like the wzs are too complicated to figure out after a couple of warzones in the 50 brackter

 

You are a coward afriad to fight with the big boys in the big zones. let me tell you you sicken me i will fight for what I believe is right and fight for the lives of empire in warzone with gun there is no holding back. M8.

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You are a coward afriad to fight with the big boys in the big zones. let me tell you you sicken me i will fight for what I believe is right and fight for the lives of empire in warzone with gun there is no holding back. M8.

 

Don't forget us big girls now....

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You are a coward afriad to fight with the big boys in the big zones. let me tell you you sicken me i will fight for what I believe is right and fight for the lives of empire in warzone with gun there is no holding back. M8.

 

in what universe he said in that post that he does that? You call him a coward, while all he said, was that people should stop whining and grow a pair... (or, my fav, grow a pear)...

 

I feel disturbance in logic.

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Also, please tell us how you would go about proving that anyone who leaves a WZ isn't doing it for real life reasons and to avoid xp. Unless you can video tape that 49 in person playing, showing that he didn't, in fact, have RL issues, you can't prove it.

 

You realize that they have data on pretty much everything that happens in game, they just have to put something in place to use it. So, if they are getting reports of a player leaving warzones just before the game ends (who would leave at this time, you get no rewards after playing an entire match), then they can look at the data to see if that is the case and take appropriate measures.

 

AFAIK they've never needed videotape to ban hackers, I don't see why this would be any different if players are found to be continuously leaving warzones to avoid XP.

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in what universe he said in that post that he does that? You call him a coward, while all he said, was that people should stop whining and grow a pair... (or, my fav, grow a pear)...

 

I feel disturbance in logic.

 

he want people to run from good fight and doesn't care about pvp everyday I put my life on the line, he is coward.

 

I do not need to enlarge the ********s. it's him that does need this.

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TL-DR: Twinks aren't exploits, Staying a Twink indefinitely is. That's what's being argued and you are arguing using missunderstood terms/concepts.

 

Pot, meet kettle. I think you're the one that misunderstands terms and concepts. Let me break it down for you, since your dorsal pain clearly clouded your judgment:

 

1. Leaving a WZ whenever you wanted is a feature, not a bug. It's been like that since beta/early access. You must think the devs are real idiots if they didn't fix this for almost one year. Do you honestly think you're smarter than them ?

 

2. When bugs happened (there were plenty, especially at launch, GTN sales mail duplicates for one etc) BW was pretty johnny on the spot and fixed them fairly quick. The fact that leaving WZs has no drawbacks (aside losing the credits, valor and comm rewards along with the XP) should be a declaration in itself: this is working as intended. One trades his/her rewards and time for the ability to crush their enemies more efficiently. You get NOTHING out of staying 49 forever. Nothing. Not even stat padding. Nothing. Just the purity of battle and the slaughter of the unsuspecting nerfs. You get nothing out of it other than e-peen. Quid pro quo, Clarice.

 

3. Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to pvp. If you don't like fighting, don't join WZs. If you don't like getting crushed, then put some effort into your own gear. If you see a pimped out 49-er, just avoid him. There's a throng of solutions for the suffering of your butt, yet you only choose to whine and cry bloody murder.

 

Let me tell you how it goes. For instance i just pimped my lvl 49 operative with the best purple gear available. All 49 mods, implants, ear and lvl 47 augments (who needs that extra 1 endurance anyway). I did it all by myself, running crew missions with my alts and whatnot. I spent hundreds of thousands of credits getting my crew skills to max and running the missions i needed, RE-ing this and that, not to mention TIME. I did it primarily because i know this gear is entry level for 50s FPs and HMs and whatever. But, if I DECIDE that the amount of time and effort i put into all this warrants me spending a few WZs bashing in some skulls and not getting to 50 where others bash in my skull, that is my own decision, and you got jack sith right to tell me otherwise.

 

You're too lazy to gear up and too um, let's say inexperienced to make up for your lack of gear with skill. So you lose and your butt is hurting and you decide to reinvent the wheel and spit your on opinion as fact. Here, look, i can do it better:

 

A. Did BW ever condemned leaving WZs for purpose of perpetual pwnage ? NO

B. Did BW ever banned someone that did ? NO

C. Did BW implemented this feature to leave the WZ and is it live and functioning today ? YES

 

I deem all your whine invalid. Gear up your char and have a chat with my black friend, Lernto Playrissian. This is a galaxy of opportunities and no one is immortal. Yet you seek to take the choice away from some players. No doubt you've gone dark side.

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So you're saying that if you spent a few hours a day for a couple days PvP'ing on a lowbie toon and in pretty much every WZ you did a lvl 49 was there and leaving every single time before it ended you'd think "oh, they must have a problem." And then see them 2 mins. later in another WZ and the same thing happens, you'd keep thinking "Wow, dude's having problems today. Guess it's a good thing it's not bad enough to keep them from playing a game they obviously love." It would never occur to you that they are doing it intentionally?:confused:

 

Whether it occurs to you is moot. BW needs legit proof in order to act. YOU thinking someone is being naughty is not good enough. Sorry, you're not Santa.

Edited by Smashbrother
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Alright, just did my homework on this and I'm trying not to laugh myself to death Smashy.

 

For that part of the ToS, Open World PvP and "Ganking" is normal flow of game play on a PvP server, and not covered by the ToS. If you had a way to do it on a PvE server (Like found an quest npc you could kill, and kept camping it) there may be an issue.

 

Secondly, Bioware apologized for the issue on Hoth for the GM's actions, which were not in keeping with Bioware's standards. The GM contact people via /say which is a no no... he threatened accounts, and possibly even tampered with evidence. The apology was also to those who were accused of fake claims, as the original investigation suggested. The GM was disciplined for his rogue actions, and clearly was acting this way without their approval.

 

Apology quoted below:

 

 

 

So your little story -still- does not disqualify the ToS's version of exploits.

 

Further more, your "Bioware's definition" of exploits is wrong. Upon rereading the article Busting Bug's and Fixing Exploits it is (1) older than the ToS, which I believe we all recently re-agreed to when F2P hit, and (2) is a narrow article specificly dealing with bugs and exploits due to bugs. Never does it say all exploits are bugs, and it also shows not all bugs are exploits. This is not a broad enough article to make a definiton from, and it is not as recent or as actionable as the ToS.

 

I also would like to bring in the Ilum Exploit, which is around the same time as your article. Ilum PvP Issues. Notice they never refer to the exceptional valor gain as a bug, and only comment on it as "Unintended by the design team."

 

In that case, only the worst offenders had action taken against them, even though Bioware determined the use of Ilum's unitended design flaws was against the ToS. Could they have taken action against -everyone- who stepped foot on Ilum that day... yes. Yet they didn't, because Bioware and EA can enforce the ToS at their discretion... the wonders of having your own little empire lol.

 

-.- so again, We will probably not get an answer from Bioware if it is considered and exploit, and it may not even be "fixed" for some time as it's not an -emergency.- Neither one of us can prove what Bioware thinks, and we're left to logical reasoning and the few documents we do have. By the ToS and through logic, this is an exploit.

 

That article may be old, but it's also the only article I can find of an official BW person talking about exploits. So until BW comes out with something else that contradicts it, it's the letter of the law.

 

EA is only the publisher. They don't enforce anything inside the game. They have a say in what BW should do (for example, I'm very sure EA made BW go F2P), but EA doesn't have anything to do with the actual going ons of the gameplay.

 

But yes, SWTOR is BW's empire, and it's at their discretion whether they should punish you or not. And that is exactly why I don't hold much stock on EA's ToS vs. BW's definition.

Edited by Smashbrother
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You are a coward afriad to fight with the big boys in the big zones. let me tell you you sicken me i will fight for what I believe is right and fight for the lives of empire in warzone with gun there is no holding back. M8.

 

im sorry what? my main, and really only toon i play, is 50, and has been 50 since january of this year. i was around when there was only ONE pvp queue (50s werent separate). so ive been in the big boy bracket since the very first day there was a big boy bracket.

 

 

i think youre RP'ing a little too hard :confused:

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im sorry what? my main, and really only toon i play, is 50, and has been 50 since january of this year. i was around when there was only ONE pvp queue (50s werent separate). so ive been in the big boy bracket since the very first day there was a big boy bracket.

 

 

i think youre RP'ing a little too hard :confused:

 

I not rp i am telling that i fight for my team mates in combat zones. i do not like cowards.

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Pot, meet kettle. I think you're the one that misunderstands terms and concepts. Let me break it down for you, since your dorsal pain clearly clouded your judgment:

 

1. Leaving a WZ whenever you wanted is a feature, not a bug. It's been like that since beta/early access. You must think the devs are real idiots if they didn't fix this for almost one year. Do you honestly think you're smarter than them ?

 

2. When bugs happened (there were plenty, especially at launch, GTN sales mail duplicates for one etc) BW was pretty johnny on the spot and fixed them fairly quick. The fact that leaving WZs has no drawbacks (aside losing the credits, valor and comm rewards along with the XP) should be a declaration in itself: this is working as intended. One trades his/her rewards and time for the ability to crush their enemies more efficiently. You get NOTHING out of staying 49 forever. Nothing. Not even stat padding. Nothing. Just the purity of battle and the slaughter of the unsuspecting nerfs. You get nothing out of it other than e-peen. Quid pro quo, Clarice.

 

3. Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to pvp. If you don't like fighting, don't join WZs. If you don't like getting crushed, then put some effort into your own gear. If you see a pimped out 49-er, just avoid him. There's a throng of solutions for the suffering of your butt, yet you only choose to whine and cry bloody murder.

 

Let me tell you how it goes. For instance i just pimped my lvl 49 operative with the best purple gear available. All 49 mods, implants, ear and lvl 47 augments (who needs that extra 1 endurance anyway). I did it all by myself, running crew missions with my alts and whatnot. I spent hundreds of thousands of credits getting my crew skills to max and running the missions i needed, RE-ing this and that, not to mention TIME. I did it primarily because i know this gear is entry level for 50s FPs and HMs and whatever. But, if I DECIDE that the amount of time and effort i put into all this warrants me spending a few WZs bashing in some skulls and not getting to 50 where others bash in my skull, that is my own decision, and you got jack sith right to tell me otherwise.

 

You're too lazy to gear up and too um, let's say inexperienced to make up for your lack of gear with skill. So you lose and your butt is hurting and you decide to reinvent the wheel and spit your on opinion as fact. Here, look, i can do it better:

 

A. Did BW ever condemned leaving WZs for purpose of perpetual pwnage ? NO

B. Did BW ever banned someone that did ? NO

C. Did BW implemented this feature to leave the WZ and is it live and functioning today ? YES

 

I deem all your whine invalid. Gear up your char and have a chat with my black friend, Lernto Playrissian. This is a galaxy of opportunities and no one is immortal. Yet you seek to take the choice away from some players. No doubt you've gone dark side.

 

Thank you for taking the time and writing this post, battling with these people that want to dumb down the game in search for "fairness" is wearing me down. The point to a game is having fun, If your not then do something else.

 

I gear my toons as much as I can, have not held a toon at 49 but could care less if other people do. I at first disliked twinks in WoW but then I made one to fight the evil ones and found it was a ton of fun and worth the large investment in time.

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You realize that they have data on pretty much everything that happens in game, they just have to put something in place to use it. So, if they are getting reports of a player leaving warzones just before the game ends (who would leave at this time, you get no rewards after playing an entire match), then they can look at the data to see if that is the case and take appropriate measures.

 

AFAIK they've never needed videotape to ban hackers, I don't see why this would be any different if players are found to be continuously leaving warzones to avoid XP.

 

I know they have data on everything that happens in this game. But data cannot account for INTENTION. And since leaving a WZ is NOT a bug, BW doesn't care that people are leaving WZs to avoid xp. I say they don't care, because this has been going on since the game came out, and there has not been ANY mention of this being an exploit by BW, nor has anyone ever been banned for doing it.

Edited by Smashbrother
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You are correct, twinking is not an exploit, and no one has said it is.

 

The exploit comes with indefinite twinking, which is done/caused by leaving a warzone before the end, to avoid the rewards. While this is hard for a player to prove 100%, I believe the OP mentioned things like "Observing several 49's leaving just before the end, repeatedly."

 

So as you say, twinks are not an exploit, nor is the concept of twinking being discussed here.

 

As "benefits" are subjective, one could make an argument that these Infinite Twinks (the act of remaining a twink indefinitely)are benefiting in personal reasons (ie. E-peen, Roflstomping, etc...), and that the act of -not- getting conventional rewards allows them to continue receiving their own personal benefits. If their personal benfits are disruptive to others, and are not part of natural gameplay, then it's a problem.

 

TL-DR: Twinks aren't exploits, Staying a Twink indefinitely is. That's what's being argued and you are arguing using missunderstood terms/concepts.

 

You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

 

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.

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You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

 

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.

 

As much as I think twinks are ****... the man has a point here.

 

Of course... in my understanding of the word "exploit", I completely believe this IS an exploit. HOWEVER, so is power leveling, so WAS jumping the wall in Civil War, appparently legacy gear as well, so is avoiding mobs in operations...

 

If you don't see my point... it is that all of these things can be considered "exploits". They do not fall into the design of the game "as intended". But none of these are punishable offenses either. And that's the point... none of these are a blatant mis-use of the games design.

 

Sure, maybe they didn't notice, or expect people to do any of these things. But bottom line.. they know it's happenening, it's not game breaking and they also continue to allow it.

 

It's annoying.... yes... an exploit... yes.

 

A punishable offense?

 

No.

Edited by UGLYMRJ
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You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

 

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.

 

LOL,

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Pot, meet kettle. I think you're the one that misunderstands terms and concepts. Let me break it down for you, since your dorsal pain clearly clouded your judgment:

 

1. Leaving a WZ whenever you wanted is a feature, not a bug. It's been like that since beta/early access. You must think the devs are real idiots if they didn't fix this for almost one year. Do you honestly think you're smarter than them ?

 

2. When bugs happened (there were plenty, especially at launch, GTN sales mail duplicates for one etc) BW was pretty johnny on the spot and fixed them fairly quick. The fact that leaving WZs has no drawbacks (aside losing the credits, valor and comm rewards along with the XP) should be a declaration in itself: this is working as intended. One trades his/her rewards and time for the ability to crush their enemies more efficiently. You get NOTHING out of staying 49 forever. Nothing. Not even stat padding. Nothing. Just the purity of battle and the slaughter of the unsuspecting nerfs. You get nothing out of it other than e-peen. Quid pro quo, Clarice.

 

3. Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to pvp. If you don't like fighting, don't join WZs. If you don't like getting crushed, then put some effort into your own gear. If you see a pimped out 49-er, just avoid him. There's a throng of solutions for the suffering of your butt, yet you only choose to whine and cry bloody murder.

 

Let me tell you how it goes. For instance i just pimped my lvl 49 operative with the best purple gear available. All 49 mods, implants, ear and lvl 47 augments (who needs that extra 1 endurance anyway). I did it all by myself, running crew missions with my alts and whatnot. I spent hundreds of thousands of credits getting my crew skills to max and running the missions i needed, RE-ing this and that, not to mention TIME. I did it primarily because i know this gear is entry level for 50s FPs and HMs and whatever. But, if I DECIDE that the amount of time and effort i put into all this warrants me spending a few WZs bashing in some skulls and not getting to 50 where others bash in my skull, that is my own decision, and you got jack sith right to tell me otherwise.

 

You're too lazy to gear up and too um, let's say inexperienced to make up for your lack of gear with skill. So you lose and your butt is hurting and you decide to reinvent the wheel and spit your on opinion as fact. Here, look, i can do it better:

 

A. Did BW ever condemned leaving WZs for purpose of perpetual pwnage ? NO

B. Did BW ever banned someone that did ? NO

C. Did BW implemented this feature to leave the WZ and is it live and functioning today ? YES

 

I deem all your whine invalid. Gear up your char and have a chat with my black friend, Lernto Playrissian. This is a galaxy of opportunities and no one is immortal. Yet you seek to take the choice away from some players. No doubt you've gone dark side.

 

1. I already discussed not all exploiting involves bugs, as the ToS doesn't define it as such and the BW article about fixing bugs -only- focussed on bug, it isn't a broad enough article to reach a definition from.

 

2. Tangible rewards are not a requirement for an exploit.

 

3, I've stated multiple times in this thread, that the only real reason I continue to post is a personal pet peeve of people not calling some thing what it is. Whether or not it happens, or BW fixes it, or BW comes out and laughs at the issue and calls it trivial (which I doubt they will), has pretty much zero effect on me. I really don't care if someone wants to stay 49 for ever, but if someone doesn't think it's an exploit (or at the very least, if people can't wrap their brains around what an exploit is, it's an abuse of feature) I'm going to -reason- with them till they get it. Infinite twinking? Exploit. Queue dodging/Ranked Win-trading? Exploit. Purposeful 8-man's in normal Wz's? Exploit. Etc...

 

The rest of your post just shows your ignorance on where I stand on this issue. =P While your getting your kicks being top dog in sub-50, my alt will be leveling past you, sticking on her legacy gear, and waiting on the other side. I will really only respond to ABC... though I've addressed those points before... -.- I'm really getting tired of repeating myself.

 

A. Bioware has stated it doesn't acknowledge things it deems exploits till they fix them, to avoid more people using them (which they will either have to ignore, or take action against thus losing revenue.)

 

B. Bioware only banned the worst Ilum offenders, they do not ban everyone for exploiting. Wonderful part about the ToS is they get to pick and choose when to enforce it. If they banned everyone in violation of the ToS, they probably would be out of business already lol.

 

C. Can you tell me you honestly think the "Leave Warzone" features was put in place for this reason. out of the dozen other legitimate reasons for the feature? I just imagine the conversation:

 

Dev 1: Okay, so what do we need in the Warzone?

Dev 2: How about a leave button... ya know, in case someone decides they don't want the rewards or something.

Dev 1: Oh ya, no one likes rewards. We better give them away out!

 

C2. Also, don't you think if this was the Dev's intentions, they'd have added an "exp off" button like that other game?

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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That article may be old, but it's also the only article I can find of an official BW person talking about exploits. So until BW comes out with something else that contradicts it, it's the letter of the law.

 

EA is only the publisher. They don't enforce anything inside the game. They have a say in what BW should do (for example, I'm very sure EA made BW go F2P), but EA doesn't have anything to do with the actual going ons of the gameplay.

 

But yes, SWTOR is BW's empire, and it's at their discretion whether they should punish you or not. And that is exactly why I don't hold much stock on EA's ToS vs. BW's definition.

 

You seem to have missed the part where I challenged the definition you drew from that article. That article is specifically about bugs and exploits that come from bugs. It doesn't exclusively say all exploits are bugs. It is too narrow an article to draw "Bioware's" definition of an exploit from.

 

Secondly, whether or not the ToS comes from EA or BW is irrelevant. If Bioware or EA is looking for a way to justify banning/punishing someone, they will draw upon the ToS and not an article from way back in 1.2.

 

 

You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

 

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.

 

I believe I've done a fair portion of my "burden of proof."

 

First I showed that Bioware will not acknowledge something as an exploit openly until it is fixed, thus dissproving that we need a Bioware stamp of Exploiting to determine an exploit.

 

Second I proved Bioware doesn't ban everyone who exploits, as evidenced by the massive amount of people form Ilum who remained unpunished, while only the worst offenders were. It is just bad business sense to ban everyone who miss-uses the system, especially in anything that is either "not that bad" or a "grey area."

 

Third, I proved through a logical path way that believe/saying the "Leave Warzone" feature was intended to be used to dodge rewards is illogical, and goes against every other legitmate intenion in the game. The game has a natural cycle pre 50 (Particpation > Completion > Reward > Level). Leave Warzone has other legitimate reasons to exist, other than to intterupt this cycle.

 

Considering the number of articles, dev posts, and even the ToS that myself and others have brought to the table, including the refuting of the one article and one dev post you brought, your assertion I am not meeting my burden of proof is pretty laughable. =P

 

Just like science, we can never be 100% sure of anything. I feel confident to say I'm 99% sure without bioware confirmation these things can be considered exploits, and I've brought articles, posts, and logical reasoning to prove it. If you wanna stick to the 1% uncertianity be my guest, but it's kinda like those folks who still think evolution is fake without their sky daddy coming down himself and smacking them with a textbook.

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Doom I almost always agree with you, but can't on this one.

While I don't do it in this game I have in others. A Exploit is something done by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

 

First off They had to know it would be a issue for some people not liking this and would have been very easy to not allow it, their top people have been in the industry 10-15 years and likely left it in to see how it would go and to maybe tweak or out right negate it if enough of the paying player complained. The reason in my opinion is that this a time sink for a niche market of players, maybe it's a huge amount I have no clue. But until they denounce it, how can you call it a exploit?

Edited by Pvtcarnage
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