I was thinking about the possible buffto operative/scoundrel. Those class need a buff imo. However the only operative/scoundrel left are the good one, you know those putting you in an awkard situation. And they are doing well. The problem is: if they buff them those good players are going to look overpowered and people are going to cry for a nerf...again.

 

I'd like to have your opinion.

That is generally the mmo cycle: over powered -> over nerfed -> over buffed.

dps scoundrels, and operatives, currently are stuck in the spot that our selection of wz maps doesnt support our play style very well.

 

We excel at individual combat, and are pretty much the best wingman to have in a 2v2. Our biggest obstacle in recieving a buff is the play styles that the current maps enjoy. With the exception of huttball, the strategies usually revolve around.

 

Place players who excel at surviving, and delaying at the secondary target, and keep the big damage dealers, and healers at the primary(where all the combat is happening).

 

If the secondary objective is being attacked the person defending it will call it out, and delay long enough for reinforcements to show up. This isn't a hard task, as most fights take around 20 seconds. Which is plenty of time for reinforcements to show up, and prevent the cap/plant.

 

IMO if we are to see the scoundrel get a buff, that doesnt either make us to powerful, yet makes us desirable in rateds, we will first have to see some changes to the maps, that support small group engagements without the possibility of quick reinforcements(i.e larger maps, or barriers of some sort).

 

until then however. I believe it will either be big changes to our utility(teleports, snares), or our survivability( defensive screen buff, or dodge buff)

You cannot have the best of both worlds, either you are good in the BIG ZERG, or you are good at secondary objectives. Saying that current map selection is not good for stealthers is the biggest BS i've ever heard.

Civil war, novarre coast, hyper gates and even voidstar are very much catered to the needs of staby staby. And huttball, with jugs interceding to you will remaining cloaked..

 

Stealth dps in this game has no right to complain. The only spec that needs an improvement is lethality. Concealment is where it needs to be: give an edge to opportunistic skillfull players while giving their targets an actual fighting chance.

You cannot have the best of both worlds, either you are good in the BIG ZERG, or you are good at secondary objectives. Saying that current map selection is not good for stealthers is the biggest BS i've ever heard.

Civil war, novarre coast, hyper gates and even voidstar are very much catered to the needs of staby staby. And huttball, with jugs interceding to you will remaining cloaked..

 

Stealth dps in this game has no right to complain. The only spec that needs an improvement is lethality. Concealment is where it needs to be: give an edge to opportunistic skillfull players while giving their targets an actual fighting chance.

 

First off you need take it down a notch. I wasnt complaining. I never asked for anything other than bigger maps. Whatever gave you that idea is beyond me.

 

Other than the double stun, and cap in the hypergate......how are you going to cap an objective before reinforcements arrive....I'm just curious. I for one have not faced too many idiots at the secondary objective in ranked games that are the pushovers I see in pugs. I could care less about soloing, and getting the kill, if that kill is worthless and Im unable to make the cap afterwords, and as it stands now. DPS ops/scoundrels do not have that ability, and if they did it would be OP, as we would just steamroll people in regs.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Haystak

how about they remove take cover in place instead, ops/scoundrels should not have this instant free anti leap/grapple no energy cost, not even taking a global cooldown! u can keep rolling into cover Edited February 10, 2013 by iDraxter

how about they remove take cover in place instead, ops/scoundrels should not have this instant free anti leap/grapple no energy cost, not even taking a global cooldown! u can keep rolling into cover

 

I do not think I have ever seen a dps op take cover. They need something else. I think more dc's of some sort could be the solution, as their single target DPS is fine as it is, they just have no gap closing or survivability.

As far as I can tell, the only major buff in the works for Scrappers/Ops is a straight line gap closer that does no damage and can be used from stealth. There are also small survivability buffs associated with that which are also getting implemented. Burst damage is probably going to be unchanged. Energy management also looks unchanged (again, all from preliminary/speculative information).

 

A gap closer would only keep us competitive with Sorcs and Sages; that fight is super easy ONLY if we can keep close. Any slight buffs to Force Speed, Force Armor, or other gap-widening defensive abilities would completely skew that fight in the Sorc favor. Energy management abilities would really help with the class's viability against decent PTs, Sins, and Marauders, all of whom have us solidly beaten for survivability, virtually tied for burst, and (currently) solidly beaten on resources.

 

The only ability changes that would probably lead to the nerf chain are those that improved burst. A finisher, for example, would be an unnecessary disaster for this class. I can't even imagine how hard I would hit with a proper finisher. If anything gets buffed, keep it at survivability, gap closing, and/or energy management but nothing else.

They really need a complete redesign of the whole spec, maybe the whole class. Pretty much any buffs at all, and a good conceal op will win 100% of the time against any class. If everything is up, and they get the open from stealth. They will also lose 100% of the time if they get spotted, or miss a move, or have whatever. Even if the class is no use at all in any objectives and would get owned if they joined the zerg and have the lowest sustained damage of any class, if they are able to win every fight they choose to be in, and are the ones that do get to do that choosing, people will be screaming for nerfs.

Thats why we need constant class adjustments. Not only to scoundlrel and IA but to all classes. Thats the only to have a game that is balanced. Not how swtor is. Devs break pvp then abandon it for months.

all out damage depends on opening from stealth. the biggest problem i see is the overabundance of smashers. the random splash damage yanking us out of stealth to be sitting ducks with no survivability. perhaps something as easy as a talent or protection from incidental damage ruining stealth?

 

i feel fine pvp damage 1-49 and even at 50. it's the being yanked out of stealth dozens of times as i need to get up close behind players to do my damage, but i can't be in stealth with all the smashes and random spells going off.

 

i'm all for being pulled out of stealth if i am seen or direct targeted but the get-lucky by tossing aoe at someone else - i won't get into smashers using an aoe spell for single target damage argument - and me getting hit trying to position against some different enemy all-together

all out damage depends on opening from stealth. the biggest problem i see is the overabundance of smashers. the random splash damage yanking us out of stealth to be sitting ducks with no survivability. perhaps something as easy as a talent or protection from incidental damage ruining stealth?

 

i feel fine pvp damage 1-49 and even at 50. it's the being yanked out of stealth dozens of times as i need to get up close behind players to do my damage, but i can't be in stealth with all the smashes and random spells going off.

 

i'm all for being pulled out of stealth if i am seen or direct targeted but the get-lucky by tossing aoe at someone else - i won't get into smashers using an aoe spell for single target damage argument - and me getting hit trying to position against some different enemy all-together

 

Well said, I completely agree. That would be one hell of a good start if the Devs are too worried about making us OP by increasing burst damage, etc. A simple fix like that could really help Operatives up their DPS a little bit. It's logical though. Stealth = Hidden Strike = DPS, immunity to non-warranted AOE DPS = Still in stealth = Still capable of using Hidden Strike = Doing more DPS in a Warzone. It's a start that would make me happy.

Thats why we need constant class adjustments. Not only to scoundlrel and IA but to all classes. Thats the only to have a game that is balanced. Not how swtor is. Devs break pvp then abandon it for months.

 

A class that is capable to choose its engagements and can as well disengage from a n unfavorable fight should be weaker in a straight and fair fight against a class that cannot choose to do so.

 

Also stelathers immune to AOE? And how are we dupposed to pull them out if stealth? Lets not remove the very little skill left necessary to be a good stealth dps.

Edited February 10, 2013 by NoTomorrow