The last battle, Tyber Zann vs G0-T0, fell in the droids favour. For although Tyber’s powerful consortium drove G0-T0 into a corner, his opponent was a slippery as an Adegan eel and anticipated Zann’s every move, and eventually had him 'deleted'. But onto round four.

 

For all those of you aren't aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

 

Before we begin, let’s go over the ground rules again:

 

 

• The arena: the known galaxy.
  
• No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers apart from those listed below. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Darth Serevin, Savan.
  
• No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  
• No surrender, fight to the death!
  
• No superweapons, e.g. the Foundry.
  
• Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  
• Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.
  

 

Permitted Allies:

 

Darth Malgus: HK-47

 

Prince Xizor: Guri

 

So, the combatants: Darth Malgus was one of the Sith Empire’s greatest champions, he was a brilliant strategist, powerful adversary, strong with the lightsaber and the in the Force – a persevering juggernaut. While Prince Xizor was a charismatic, cold and patient criminal mastermind.

 

Malgus had command over the legions of his ‘New Empire’, an army of droids, mercenaries, soldiers and Sith. As well as a host of advanced and ancient technology, including a stealth fleet. And Xizor had the assets, reach, influence and wealth of the Black Sun – the most infamous crime syndicate in the galaxy – at his disposal. As well as a vast amount of intelligence, surpassing that of the Galactic Empire. But when the crime consortium does battle with the might of an Empire, who will win?

 

Malgus will win, because he was introduced in op first.

Malgus will win, because he was introduced in op first.

 

Interesting logic lol

Malgus will win, because he was introduced in op first.

Lol, but Tyber Zann didn't win did he?

Interesting logic lol

 

G0-T0 was introduced first and he won same with Revan. 1/2 with Grevious and Mando.

 

The patterns are there buried in the data.

 

 

Or Xizor could just try to get Malgus to sleep with him or does that only wok on members of the opposite sex?

Lol, but Tyber Zann didn't win did he?

 

I meant in your last two paragraphs.

 

Also Malgus was in SWTOR so he would be more popular here any way.

 

Also what's with the point score what does that mean?

 

Or is this like QI?

Woah! Malgus gets HK? He's a difference maker.

 

Anyhow: I love Malgus. I really do. But I feel that Xizor is just gonna have so much bribing and underworld power that this battle is gonna be something that Malgus ain't good at. Malgus isn't gonna be able to send in his army because:

A he doesn't know where Xizor is (I think?)

B Xizor's 'army' will simply run from a fight will they not? He's not going to engage Maglus in a full-on battle (at least not until he's foun some legit advantage)

 

I think that Malgus's ONLY hope in this battle is to assassinate Xizor. He'd have to use HK, a strike team (he's good at organizing strike teams), himself, or all of the above. Basically, if he can't assassinate Xizor, then he loses.

I'm 3-0 on this Kaggath tournement so far! I hope I can keep up my winning streak!

I meant in your last two paragraphs.

 

Also Malgus was in SWTOR so he would be more popular here any way.

 

Also what's with the point score what does that mean?

 

Or is this like QI?

Well I normally only use the points system for really close matches, but someone requested a score for the first debate so I just thought I'd do it for all of them. The point system basically tots up all the arguments made by either side, and the better they are the more points they get. G0-T0 won this one because Warren Stride bombarded the argument with a dozen different ways to kill Tyber Zann, and another couple of dozen as to how he would undermine his power base. Course there are other factors as well i.e. how smart the opponent is, connections, personal strength etc. Really its just a sure fire way of deciding a victor without be overlooking points (cause there are often tons) or having a personal bias. But there's no point anymore (pun not intended) because you've uncovered my evil plan!

 

But anyway, back to the debate. Who's gonna win this?

Or Xizor could just try to get Malgus to sleep with him or does that only wok on members of the opposite sex?

Oh and yes, pheromones do work on the opposite sex. But that's just... creepy. *shudder*

Oh and yes, pheromones do work on the opposite sex. But that's just... creepy. *shudder*

 

Yes do try not picture Malgus Naked with Xizor.

 

 

 

Enjoy that thought.

 

Good night.

G0-T0 won. I can die happy.

 

I promise I won't "bombard" this thread like I did the G0-T0 one. I just have a few things to say, then I might be taking a little break.

 

PLEASE NOTE: It was said that Xizor was the third most powerful man in the galaxy during his time, rivaled only by Darth Vader and the Emporer. (Which means he's more powerful than Zann, who existed during the same time. )

 

Needless to say, Xizor is going to have galactic influence. And the guy is probably the richest being in the galaxy. He might not have much of an army now, but without any other major powers than Malgus, he could easily raise one with his credit chips.

 

Xizor's information network spans throughout the galaxy. He will know of Malgus's operations. Only if Malgus hides on his stealth fleet and does nothing but hit and run will Xizor have a hard time finding him. Which is unrealistic, considering his ship'll have to go into port sometime. Also, stealthed ships won't help Malgus much here. Remember that Crystal Decloaker from last debate? Xizor can buy like 5. Those devices plus him spy network = no element of surprise for Malgus.

 

OMG. HK-47 vs. Guri. That would be a freaking EPIC battle. Not sure who would win, but I like to think Guri has a better chance. She's just a boss.

 

Ways Xizor could kill Malgus:

- Guri poses as an Imperial Officer, infaltrates Malgus's fleet when it goes into port, and assassinate Malgus.

- Blow up his Space Station, like last time. Xizor uses his spy network to find it and infiltrates it.

- Xizor uses his pheromones on someone close to him (DANG no Darth Karrid! Um.... his new apprentice....?)

- Use Assassins! (Do IG-88s exist? Or IG-87s? Because Xizor would totally be able to buy/find them.)

 

Obviously I'm voting for Xizor.

Ok ok, one scenario, because I'm really liking Guri.

 

Right from "GO!", Xizor uses his contacts and network to get fake Imperial papers for Guri. She poses as Ensign Irug, and infaltrates an imperial port. Malgus's fleet has to dock for supplies at some point, and then Guri slips on board. Eventually Ensign Irug and whatever battleship she slips onto will meet up with Malgus's fleet or space station. With assassin mode activated, Guri does what she needs to to steal a shuttle and land in Malgus's hanger. Now on Malgus's flagship or space station, whichever one he's on, Guri would rage throughout the ship, making her way to the engine room. If discovered, she'll kill all security. She might run into HK-47, but even if she does, I bet she could beat him. Moving on, she sabotages the station, activating the self destruct sequence. To keep Malgus's on board, Guri confronts him and probably gets crushed. But the self destruct activates and Malgus dies.

 

The question is, can Guri reach Malgus's station before Malgus kills Xizor?

This won't be a short mission. It'll take time.

Damn was hoping to get my Analysis thread of the Black Sun done before this was up...but anyway Warren kinda already covered with what I was gonna say. But here are the vehicles that the Black Sun has at their disposal.

 

Ships

 

1. AEG-77 Vigo- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AEG-77_Vigo

 

2. V-wing Starfighter- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alpha-3_Nimbus-class_V-wing_starfighter

 

3. IPV-1 System Patrol Craft- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/IPV-1_System_Patrol_Craft

 

4. Interceptor-class frigate- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interceptor-class_frigate

 

5. Ixiyen-class fast attack craft- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ixiyen-class_fast_attack_craft

 

6. Kihraxz light fighter- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kihraxz_light_fighter

 

7. Rihkxyrk Assault Fighter- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rihkxyrk_Assault_Fighter

 

8. StarViper-class attack platform- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/StarViper-class_attack_platform

 

9. Stinger(Guri's ship)- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stinger

 

10. Supa Fighter- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Supa_Fighter

 

11. Vaksai- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vaksai

 

12. Venator-class Star Destroyer- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Venator-class_Star_Destroyer

 

13. Virago(Xizor's ship)- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Virago

 

14. Z-95 HeadHunter- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Z-95_Headhunter

======

Ground vehicles

 

There isn't much in the way of ground vehicles but...its not like the Black Sun can't afford/find other vehicles and such to use.

 

1. Infantry Support Platform- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infantry_Support_Platform

 

2. Bantha-2 cargo skiff- http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bantha-II_cargo_skiff

====

 

Plus anything else the Black Sun can get their hands on due to the fact, they are loaded(extremely) and are EVERYWHERE. I don't see any betraying Xizor, due to the fact to betray him and the Black Sun is the equivalent to signing your own death warrant...which is something I seriously doubt any would do.

 

Also to add, even though she is a human replica droid....Xizor/Guri relationship is oddly hot.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

A lot of people are forgetting that Darth Malgus was very strong in the force and a prime example of a Juggernaut. Don't think he can be assassinated so easily as you're all making out.

I was going to post a scenario for this fight, but it seems Warren has done that for me.

 

Ah, what the heck? Here we go:

 

So Malgus has the stealthed vessels, which will give him an advantage for a fair amount of time. But this advantage can be easily taken away by Xizor's cunning. Those decloaker generators will do it, but Xizor can also trick Malgus into recruiting some of his spies. Or we can go with Warren's scenario and have Guri infiltrate. Though I do disagree with Warren's overall scenario. Remember that the Sith Empire (and most likely Malgus' Empire) is all about protocol and doing things by the book, so Guri will need the proper clearance in order to successfully sabotage Malgus' vessel. So while Xizor is infiltrating Malgus' stealthed fleet, Malgus is searching for him.

 

So let's say he does find Xizor (where exactly is Xizor going to be? Coruscant?), he will have the military power to defeat any army Xizor can build. Granted this relies on Guri being successful, but can she kill Malgus? It wouldn't matter because if Guri is successful in sabotaging Malgus' flagship, he's dead. But if Malgus is able to kill Xizor via orbital bombardment, or even leaving his flagship to confront Xizor, the infiltrate plan fails. Costing Xizor Guri and Malgus one ship.

 

Can we all agree that Malgus could beat Xizor in a fight? If so, Xizor will be forced to flee, leaving a nice little trap for Malgus. The trap probably won't kill him, but it gives Xizor time to escape.

 

Question: Is Guri replaceable? If so, we're back to square one?

OK, basically Malgus is probably going to be on the Emperor's Space Station, not a flagship (which has a cloaking device) and Xizor is either going to be in his palace on Coruscant or his Skyhook. Xizor seems a lot more vulnerable.

 

Warren Stride's scenario is a good one. But I doubt it would be successful on the space station of the Sith Emperor which is most certainly the most well guarded, high-security and most impenetrable fortress the Sith Empire ever had in its arsenal, and Darth Malgus is sitting in its most secure room - the throne room. Sorry Warren but that kinda blows your scenario out of the water () no Ensign is going to be allowed on that space station - and she probably couldn't sabotage it anyway (she'd have to hack into its systems and even Theron Shan - and SIS agent couldn't blow up the Ascendant Spear from the inside, what are her chances?) And then there's the Force, Guri is a droid but Malgus will likely sense a disturbance in the Force and escape or something.

 

Basically I don't think that's an avenue of action, Malgus needs to be drawn out first for the plan to work. But can Xizor do that before Malgus blows his skyhook into space dust or has him assassinated by HK-47?

And then there's the Force, Guri is a droid but Malgus will likely sense a disturbance in the Force and escape or something.

 

 

It should be important to note that Guri was able to tangle with Luke Skywalker (pre-prime obviously). And that was when Luke knew she was a cyborg. So Malgus will be caught of guard by the attack,, but being a fully trained Sith Lord will allow him to quickly recover and finish her off.

 

(Luke's saving grace in that fight was Force speed by the way.)

It should be important to note that Guri was able to tangle with Luke Skywalker (pre-prime obviously). And that was when Luke knew she was a cyborg. So Malgus will be caught of guard by the attack,, but being a fully trained Sith Lord will allow him to quickly recover and finish her off.

 

(Luke's saving grace in that fight was Force speed by the way.)

But I think he'll sense the attack coming in the first place, in fact he'll probably sense a disturbance in the Force when she sabotages the engines or power generators and what not. And then she has to battle her way to the bridge/throne room before Malgus can escape.

 

I think the plan needs to be turned on its head, and Guri will need insiders to pull it off. You've already proven Guri will have difficulty pretending to be an Imperial Officer. But an insider can perform the sabotage while Guri distracts Malgus... just a thought. But perhaps its a little early to be discussing endgame scenarios though. Debate on!

But I think he'll sense the attack coming in the first place, in fact he'll probably sense a disturbance in the Force when she sabotages the engines or power generators and what not. And then she has to battle her way to the bridge/throne room before Malgus can escape.

 

I think the plan needs to be turned on its head, and Guri will need insiders to pull it off. You've already proven Guri will have difficulty pretending to be an Imperial Officer. But an insider can perform the sabotage while Guri distracts Malgus... just a thought. But perhaps its a little early to be discussing endgame scenarios though. Debate on!

 

Good point on Guri. Of course these spies will need to be on the higher ups (like really high up) and Xizor will need to manufacture some air-tight clearance for Guri to get onboard.

 

Can Xizor bribe the guards aboard the station? I don't imagine those guys get out often.

I don't want to steal the show but a point to consider: Malgus has an army of hired mercenaries and aliens, Prince Xizor has lots of credits - go figure.

With Xizor's army being mostly in the underworld and dispersed across the galaxy, how is Malgus's superior army gonna be much of an advantage? Somebody hit me with a scenario or something. I just don't see any point of vulnerability in Xizor's empire that Malgus has the tools to damage. The guy just isn't built to take on Xizor imo.

 

I will agree, however, with somebody who earlier made the good point that Malgus won't be very easy to assassinate due to being, well... ya know... a Sith Lord.

 

In my opinion, Darth Malgus's greatest tool is his use of strike teams. We see in SW:TOR that he was nearly always the one to organize high-profile missions of infiltration, sabotage, and what-not. He needs to use a strike team to find info regarding either

A Xizor's location so that another mission can be made to assassinate the crime lord

OR

B a weakness in Xizor's empire. (what would that weakness be?)

 

I still feel that Xizor will win this fight.

One interesting thing is that on of Malgus' biggest strengths, his relative lack of bigotry and use of the various alien groups could be used against him, with the diversity giving Xizor a larger list of targets to send infiltrators to, not all of which will be using the strict imperial protocols, and not all of which will be immune to bribery or coercion.

 

I also find it likely, that instead of sending HK after Xizor directly that the droid would busy itself offing Vigos and the like, sowing chaos in black sun.

 

I'm on the fence right now.

I'm just coming in here with some possibilities

 

Malgus's assets:

Stealth fleet

Promises of Anti-Alien behavior being outlawed (or something) has draw many aliens to his side

HK-47 (don't deny it, he's boss)

Exceptional Strategist and manipulator

 

xizor's assets:

Richest man alive

Guri

Powerful vigos (remember that they rivaled the moffs in power)

Large intelligence network

 

Now, with these in mind (worth noting beforehand Malgus's Alien equality promises aren't gonna do much here), there's quite a few things that can happen

 

Malgus can camp in his flagship and stay stealthed (much like GO-TO did in the last one, but he can't do it indefinitely and remain hidden without running out of supplies).

Xizor could bribe a soldier or two/ have a mercenary infltrate the ranks.

 

I think that this could swing either way, but I say Malgus, after lots of betryal, will keep Xizor on the defensive and drag the kaggath on for a long time, long enough for Malgus to start wearing down, then Xizor strikes the killing blow.

I clearly think Xizor will win. I want to support Malgus so bad, but mapping out this one, Xizor has tricks up his sleeve that could very well catch Malgus off-guard, with Malgus's only hope being to find Xizor and have him assassinated by HK, quickly.

“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

Round 4:

Darth Malgus vs Prince Xizor

 

Welcome to the fourth heat of the ‘Kaggath Tournament’. A competition pitting the power bases of the iconic Star Wars characters seen in the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ against each other in an epic tournament-style extravaganza.

 

The last battle, Tyber Zann vs G0-T0, fell in the droids favour. For although Tyber’s powerful consortium drove G0-T0 into a corner, his opponent was a slippery as an Adegan eel and anticipated Zann’s every move, and eventually had him 'deleted'. But onto round four.

 

For all those of you aren't aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

 

Before we begin, let’s go over the ground rules again:

 

 

• The arena: the known galaxy.
  
• No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers apart from those listed below. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Darth Serevin, Savan.
  
• No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  
• No surrender, fight to the death!
  
• No superweapons, e.g. the Foundry.
  
• Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  
• Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.
  

 

Permitted Allies:

 

Darth Malgus: HK-47

 

Prince Xizor: Guri

 

So, the combatants: Darth Malgus was one of the Sith Empire’s greatest champions, he was a brilliant strategist, powerful adversary, strong with the lightsaber and the in the Force – a persevering juggernaut. While Prince Xizor was a charismatic, cold and patient criminal mastermind.

 

Malgus had command over the legions of his ‘New Empire’, an army of droids, mercenaries, soldiers and Sith. As well as a host of advanced and ancient technology, including a stealth fleet. And Xizor had the assets, reach, influence and wealth of the Black Sun – the most infamous crime syndicate in the galaxy – at his disposal. As well as a vast amount of intelligence, surpassing that of the Galactic Empire. But when the crime consortium does battle with the might of an Empire, who will win?

 

Let the Kaggath begin!

 

Yeah, G0-T0 won!!! And didn't someone else help with that, *cough cough*!!? Warren was amazing, but I helped too!

 

Anyway /anger. So I think it might go to Xizor, but I'll support Malgus anyway. One thing I would like to point

 

Edit: sorry hit wrong button on phone. I will finish it later when I have a computer to use .

Edited January 4, 2013 by Canino