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Acceptable spec, build, and rotation for a pvp assassin


Frostwyrm

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I am running deception right now, with 4 pieces of centurian pvp gear, but i hardly do any damage. I'm thinking that my spec, and rotation needs changed. Can anyone be nice enough to let me get some tips, so i can actually be able to do some damage in pvp warzones?
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Tank assasins in DPS gear doing huge damage is now pretty popular BS. Truth is, DPS specced assasins have a very low survivability, which forces them to utilize stealth and defense cds, but MUCH higher damage.

Deception specced assa is more of a 1v1 class with high burst and better stealth options.

Madness for sustained damage and decent cc.

Both destroy tank spec assa in dps gear if played correctly =)

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Tank assasins in DPS gear doing huge damage is now pretty popular BS. Truth is, DPS specced assasins have a very low survivability, which forces them to utilize stealth and defense cds, but MUCH higher damage.

Deception specced assa is more of a 1v1 class with high burst and better stealth options.

Madness for sustained damage and decent cc.

Both destroy tank spec assa in dps gear if played correctly =)

 

Huge damage? lol. Yea those 2200 crits are MASSIVE.

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Problem with this is the fact that bad players like the one posting above me will always spam misinformation because when they cant do it, nobody can.

 

Tank spec has absolutely NO burst increase, so your argument is invalid, and stupid.

Edited by naverev
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Huge damage? lol. Yea those 2200 crits are MASSIVE.

 

With Infiltration, it's not uncommon for me to break 4k with a Force Breach crit, using cooldowns of course. Project hits for even more against non-tank targets when Upheaval procs get added in. 8k in back to back GCD's is nothing to sneeze at, and Force Potency cooldown makes it something quite reliable to be able to land. (And for Jedi, the Project delay makes them land virtually simultaneously.)

 

Tank specs in dps gear can't even dream of that kind of burst.

Edited by Boarg
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Problem with this is the fact that bad players like the one posting above me will always spam misinformation because when they cant do it, nobody can.

 

Tank spec has absolutely NO burst increase, so your argument is invalid, and stupid.

 

Lol, way to make assumptions about someone you don't know.

 

Damage isn't what makes kinetic great. At all.

Edited by Darth_Acherus
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With Infiltration, it's not uncommon for me to break 4k with a Force Breach crit, using cooldowns of course. Project hits for even more against non-tank targets when Upheaval procs get added in. 8k in back to back GCD's is nothing to sneeze at, and Force Potency cooldown makes it something quite reliable to be able to land. (And for Jedi, the Project delay makes them land virtually simultaneously.)

 

Tank specs in dps gear can't even dream of that kind of burst.

 

Tank specs are doing between 20-30% less damage than DPS specs (see Shadow forums for test dummy comparisons).

 

While I can't drop 8k in back to back GCDs, I regularly drop 6k+. I'm running 31/2/8 with 2 in Infiltration tactics and 3 in Upheaval. If I have been in a fight, IT is normally up and when switching targets doing Project-->Shadow Strike can land over 6k in back to back cooldowns. This is certainly true when Particle Acceleration and Infiltration Tactics are up and Upheaval procs. The other strength of this combo is that all the damage is landing in the same instant because of the travel time of project. I recognize that most other tank builds haven't learned the value of IT over Psychokinesis (or Torment for Sins).

 

Now this doesn't happen every time but being aware of your buffs can allow you to take advantage of this burst when it is available. This of course is completely in line with the tests showing tank specs doing 20-30% less damage.

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The dmg is average at best, and far from invincible. Just interupt or los the tk throw. (And by that I obviously mean punt or something similar)

 

The damage is average with an average player. Most tanks are sub-par with an average player.

 

I've never seen a shadow tank top the damage charts by any means, but I've seen them come in third with over 100k protection. A good shadow will do fine damage, and then have triple the survivability of a DPS. You'd be hardpressed to kill it.

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I play a tanksin 31/10/0 and i absolutley love it! Im currently level 46 and go for nothing but defense shield and absorption,yes the dps is a little soft but my survivability is better than any. i have yet to come out a 1v1 situation with a loss its hilarious watching 4 guys pound on me while i murder one of them then stealth out. Shock, Wither , Thrash, Shock, Spike,Stun, Force Lightning (repeat) You can live forever on just this. God forbid you get some heals GG :D
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With Infiltration, it's not uncommon for me to break 4k with a Force Breach crit, using cooldowns of course. Project hits for even more against non-tank targets when Upheaval procs get added in. 8k in back to back GCD's is nothing to sneeze at, and Force Potency cooldown makes it something quite reliable to be able to land. (And for Jedi, the Project delay makes them land virtually simultaneously.)

 

Tank specs in dps gear can't even dream of that kind of burst.

 

Thank you, people seem to want the best of everything. I've tried playing kinetic spec (shadow tank spec) while in full dps gear. I couldn't for the life of me kill anything that fast. Hey look there's a healer, he can out heal my steady dps.

 

One on one I can sometimes out survive my opponent but my dps is laughable. Sticking with infil (middle tree) I'm able to put out some serious damage, getting my attack from behind ability (name eludes me) or assassinate (played assassin first for a long time) to crit can destroy some players, especially healers. Throw in what he said plus the extra CC we get half way up our tree we can put out some serious numbers.

 

I can take down enemies quite well now one on one, healers aren't as much of a pain, and hell I've been able to take down 2 bad players or defend a turret long enough (blowing my defensive CDs) to allow my team to come and help me.

 

I get a massive kick out of facing tank speced assassins for the fact a lot of infil's damage is internal, which is only reduced by about 3% from that tank spec.

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Thank you, people seem to want the best of everything. I've tried playing kinetic spec (shadow tank spec) while in full dps gear. I couldn't for the life of me kill anything that fast. Hey look there's a healer, he can out heal my steady dps.

 

One on one I can sometimes out survive my opponent but my dps is laughable. Sticking with infil (middle tree) I'm able to put out some serious damage, getting my attack from behind ability (name eludes me) or assassinate (played assassin first for a long time) to crit can destroy some players, especially healers. Throw in what he said plus the extra CC we get half way up our tree we can put out some serious numbers.

 

I can take down enemies quite well now one on one, healers aren't as much of a pain, and hell I've been able to take down 2 bad players or defend a turret long enough (blowing my defensive CDs) to allow my team to come and help me.

 

I get a massive kick out of facing tank speced assassins for the fact a lot of infil's damage is internal, which is only reduced by about 3% from that tank spec.

 

You're fighting terrible tank spec assassins then. Most Inf sins can't get me below 80% before I eat their face as 31/2/8 in dps gear.

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The damage is average with an average player. Most tanks are sub-par with an average player.

 

I've never seen a shadow tank top the damage charts by any means, but I've seen them come in third with over 100k protection. A good shadow will do fine damage, and then have triple the survivability of a DPS. You'd be hardpressed to kill it.

 

This right here.

 

Try to DPS through 300k Protection in WZs.

 

 

I say this to all the other DPS Sins, I LOL at your 4k crits. I'll save my Resilience for some real burst damage.

 

 

Luckily most Assassins on my server are nub and spec DPS Tank. If only they knew how ****** Deception and Madness are.

 

EDIT: Or just Kinetic Combat Defensively.

Edited by Zintair
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Thank you, people seem to want the best of everything. I've tried playing kinetic spec (shadow tank spec) while in full dps gear. I couldn't for the life of me kill anything that fast. Hey look there's a healer, he can out heal my steady dps.

 

One on one I can sometimes out survive my opponent but my dps is laughable. Sticking with infil (middle tree) I'm able to put out some serious damage, getting my attack from behind ability (name eludes me) or assassinate (played assassin first for a long time) to crit can destroy some players, especially healers. Throw in what he said plus the extra CC we get half way up our tree we can put out some serious numbers.

 

I can take down enemies quite well now one on one, healers aren't as much of a pain, and hell I've been able to take down 2 bad players or defend a turret long enough (blowing my defensive CDs) to allow my team to come and help me.

 

I get a massive kick out of facing tank speced assassins for the fact a lot of infil's damage is internal, which is only reduced by about 3% from that tank spec.

 

 

 

Mark of power + Charge Mastery = 19% Internal Damage Resistance Sucka! Tanksins FTW

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Tank specs are doing between 20-30% less damage than DPS specs (see Shadow forums for test dummy comparisons).

 

While I can't drop 8k in back to back GCDs, I regularly drop 6k+. I'm running 31/2/8 with 2 in Infiltration tactics and 3 in Upheaval. If I have been in a fight, IT is normally up and when switching targets doing Project-->Shadow Strike can land over 6k in back to back cooldowns. This is certainly true when Particle Acceleration and Infiltration Tactics are up and Upheaval procs. The other strength of this combo is that all the damage is landing in the same instant because of the travel time of project. I recognize that most other tank builds haven't learned the value of IT over Psychokinesis (or Torment for Sins).

 

Now this doesn't happen every time but being aware of your buffs can allow you to take advantage of this burst when it is available. This of course is completely in line with the tests showing tank specs doing 20-30% less damage.

 

You're right...the dummy tests show Kinetic would have to be increased ~23% or so to catch up in sustained damage. Whether the number is actually a bit high or low, there's some sort of substantial gap there...but it's a very reasonable price to pay for tanky survivability and tank utility. Kinetic is a strong PvP spec and probably better for most players.

 

And Kinetic does do some burst, and your spec (it's my preferred Kinetic spec, too) maximizes that capability beyond what the more popular variations can do.

 

I'll also note, though...Infiltration can add that to their burst sequence, although for them SS crits even harder (+30% crit bonus), doesn't have the -5% melee bonus reducing damage, and has the proc available more often with 3/3 IT. So, Inf can add that to a 3 gcd sequence while Kinetic is probabably back to Double Strike (which does ~5% less damage than Clairvoyant, even before the -5% melee bonus).

 

Trying to kill off a player in the presence of heals or before CD's get used, etc...tends to have rather binary result in PvP. They are either still alive, or dead.

 

Infiltration is vastly better equipped to essentially close the deal...get a kill for the group, and quickly. Even more so than the sustained damage gap may imply, because it's so much better at being able to pack a maximum amount of damage into a 2, 3, 4, 5 GCD window...whatever it may be. It's able to put out that shocking damage dump that happens too quickly for a healer to respond adequately.

 

I'm not trying to say Infiltration is better...for most players, it's probably worse overall. I'm just saying Infiltration can do things that Kinetic can't. It can play a different group role, and one that is extremely valuable for getting WZ wins. There's little more valuable in PvP than burst capability that can get quick kills and gain numbers advantage - which is exactly why Kinetic (and other tank specs) probably needs to be better overall in order to still be viable.

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If you are having issues killing with an infil/deception assassin

 

- improve gear (very gear dependent class)

- relic/adrenal/recklessness spam. use them all at once and go to town (our sustained dps is low, if u dont kill them in 5-6 attacks voltx2/maul/shock/discharge/assassinate you will probably be out of force and it's too late

- sneak attack targets at low health

- taunt! it won't help you kill anything ,but it will keep your support alive longer

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I play a tanksin 31/10/0 and i absolutley love it! Im currently level 46 and go for nothing but defense shield and absorption,yes the dps is a little soft but my survivability is better than any. i have yet to come out a 1v1 situation with a loss its hilarious watching 4 guys pound on me while i murder one of them then stealth out. Shock, Wither , Thrash, Shock, Spike,Stun, Force Lightning (repeat) You can live forever on just this. God forbid you get some heals GG :D

 

Pre-50 PvP is totally different than at 50. You won't be very effective with defensive stats on your pvp gear at 50.

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I say this to all the other DPS Sins, I LOL at your 4k crits. I'll save my Resilience for some real burst damage.

 

And I get to counter your 45s CD with a 15s CD Lowslash when I see you turn yellow all over and just let it run out. Of course, you could break it with a 2m cooldown...but trading a 45s CD and a 2m CD for a 15s one is a pretty good trade. And I still get to land my crits when it's over and you're better off saving the CC break for stun.

 

Good tank players commonly eat the dps players...but good dps players commonly eat the tank players, too. Practical application is more about skill and specific situational conditions than it is about the specs.

 

If everything is fair and equal, yeah, the tank spec *should* win, but the equally good dps spec player won't let it be possible to win by huge margins - their bag of tricks will plow through most of their health bar before running out of gas.

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All classes and each skill tree is viable.

 

The only thing not viable is a poorly played character.

 

Choose whichever you think will provide the funnest playstyle. People (on forums) get so caught up in numbers and survivability.

 

I have a Battlemaster Deception Assassin (Chain Shock Spec'd) and I will say this... I find gameplay very rewarding (fun). You will never have the highest damage numbers at the end of WZ and you will die more than most. You should however be in the top tier in # of kills though. You do have lots of CC and stuns to control 1v1 fights.

 

Your Main Objective is to play like a real life assassin. Find a specific 'mark' and kill that player. You are not like a marauder who can do lots of damage to multiple players. Your at your best killing/distracting the other teams healers, 1v1 and finishing off players with less than 65% health.

 

Of course all of this boils down to the fact that I enjoy utilizing the survivability mechanics deception assassins have as oppossed to just being able to take damage, respawning 5 - 10 times in any given warzone does not bother me and I like melee-burst-dps playstyle

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Pre-50 PvP is totally different than at 50. You won't be very effective with defensive stats on your pvp gear at 50.

 

why is that? i understand that expertise probably becomes more of a main stat at 50 but will defensive stats like shield rating and chance really be complety useless? ive actually been planting a bomb before and had an op shoot at me twice with his blaster and i managed to deflect both shots while planting the bomb and succesfully planted it,uninterupted. so shield is definitley something i like and prefer to keep but i dont understand what would make it less effective?

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