With defensive stats such as defence, absorb and shield being totally useless in PvP..... however with heavy defensive capabilities they often take a long time to kill.

I have one of these "skank tanks" so I understand how they work. I don't need an explanation. I'm just saying that explanation can easily confuse people.

Common Bioware... you nerfed every spec into the ground.., but skank tanks can still do 6-8 mil in pvp and not die

 

I’m not asking you to nerf their abilities or their proper dps output in while in tanking gear (which is how you balance the numbers internally).... but there needs to be something done to change this situation of them stacking dps gear...

 

The only solution I can think of that doesn’t require ability Nerfs is a debuff if they wear dps gear... this should work like Bolster used to when we had expertise.., if the tank goes over a certain amount of stats... they lose something else like health or power... this would stop them from stacking crit and power at the expense of defence and shield

 

I know this will be controversial for all those people using these dps builds... but if you want to dps... change spec... or learn to tank

thats one of the main problems in this game.... skank-tanks musnt even exist in mmo lol. A spec which can dps as much as dps spec, but having pretty good defense, AND being able to guard group members is a complete JOKE and nonsesense. Why do we need dps specs then??? they die fast lol and doing slightly more dps than skank-tanks. This ruins pvp overall....

I was talking about the title and then my experience, albeit minor, with Tanking in PvP. overall, i do not see an issue here. you have a player, and this is based off just the replies in this thread, that tends to get beaten down while in a dps spec and in dps gear. so, they jump over to the tank spec for a bit more survival. they use dps gear for the advantage it provides in both damage output and complements their spec. why do they do this? as kendra noted, there is little use in using actual tank gear.

 

so I ask: what exactly is the problem? is it that they can survive a bit longer and put out decent to good damage (and in some cases, excellent damage)? Is it that you take issue that they dont conform to what you want a certain spec to do?

The issue is that they perform better than their dps counterpart They last way longer which allows them to be more powerfull on the long term.

Play a dps Powertech in warzone, you'll understand why skank are so appealing

The issue is that they perform better than their dps counterpart They last way longer which allows them to be more powerfull on the long term.

Play a dps Powertech in warzone, you'll understand why skank are so appealing

unfortunately, i dont have a powertech, but will see what i can figure out on my dormant jugg (thank you mirror class). i used to enjoy PvP a long while ago, but had not played it in a long time. i have recently jumped back in, but quickly get squashed. if i can adjust my equipment to enable me to survive longer and do enough dps to help my team then im all for doing just that. i get tired of chasing healers, anyway.

Maybe I should try it.

 

Behold people of the forum...owing to Bioware holding a gun to my head for the blasted companion, I made Centurian today. Name obliterated to protect the less than innocent.

 

https://i.imgur.com/YzpbUV7.png

I've been levelling a tank class to try it since the merger. I didn't realise it was a "thing" - I just notice tanks who guarded healers in 4v4 war zones were able to obliterate the other team even if their other two members died. If I see a tank and healer on the opposite team I just quit the WZ. I don't bother with ranked for this reason (that is until I can persuade a friend to join me as a healer )

I like the skank tanks, but I can see how troublesome they can be for pug wz's.

Not sure what the solution could be, but I would rather keep them around.

thats one of the main problems in this game.... skank-tanks musnt even exist in mmo lol. A spec which can dps as much as dps spec, but having pretty good defense, AND being able to guard group members is a complete JOKE and nonsesense. Why do we need dps specs then??? they die fast lol and doing slightly more dps than skank-tanks. This ruins pvp overall....

Ok I feel like clearing up some misperceptions.

"Oh my gawd you do more damage than a dps"

In general blanky untrue. Sure compared to someone node guarding. I've topped the damage board as a skank once. In a voidstar where it was me spamming aoe at the door to prevent 4 others from capping. Guess what? None of the died. They also couldn't kill me so it stalemated there with me getting crap tons of aoe damage that killed no one.

"ugh you have so much survivability you live too long"

That's kind of the entire point of tanking, guarding weaker team members and keeping my team alive longer than yours. Glad you've met a tank that understands tanking.

" You need no dps if you have skanks!"

As I mentioned in my voidstar example I'm not exactly killing anyone. That's not the point. If I can entertain 6 people trying to kill me and my healer, there's a very good chance someone can go cap another node. In this instance I don't really want to kill those guys because they are being very kind in remaining distracted rather than running off to help their buddy at the node.

So fundamentally you understand, as a tank, whether I'm skanking or not. I'm going to guard, taunt, stun, and be as big a pain as possible. Because again, that's kind of the point.

Sorry not sorry you can't squishy the guardian like you could when I ran vigi.

never had an issue killing any tank in any gear.

ive ran mit, high hp and dps gear in my tanks. all work but for vastly different playstyles and group comps.

i dont see an issue with current tank gearing, stats, or utilties. BW seems to think the same as, tanks have been basically left alone over the past few months of "balance" patches. minus a couple minor tweaks

used to play my jugg immortal spec with dps gear but stopped since sniper mm was alot of fun and i got tired of bad guards.

Skank tanks are getting a buff in two weeks. This isn't some unintentional side effect. It's Bioware's stamp of approval. This round of class changes are clearly pvp motivated. People who don't like it need to learn to cope. It's their own issue, not a skank tank issue.

A few facts bear repeating because of how misunderstood skank tanks are:

1) DPS means damage per second, not damage per warzone. If a skank tank isn't targeted, and has more uptime, he might very well have more damage in a warzone, but that's not DPS. Saying that a skank tank can out DPS an actual DPS is usually wrong, unless the skank tank is really really good, or the dps is really, really bad, or number 2 happens, see below.

2) Skanks use cleaves. Each of the three skank tanks has one good damaging abilitiy, and it's a small aoe. If you don't want to take damage from a skank tank, then stop clustering together, just like avoiding all other aoes. That's why you get an occasional arena where the skank tank actually does out dps everyone. Because the opposing team was being stupid.

3) Skank tanks don't have the durability of actual tanks from PVE. Jugs have dcds, sins have utility, and the PT has the best cleave. Beyond that, a skank tank have more armor, but that's it. And armor suffers from diminishing returns, and doesn't even work against elemental and internal damage, and is circumvented by armor pen, which is included on almost every primary dps ability each spec has, for those abilities that are actually effected by armor. It's only compaing skank tanks to the flimsy jug and pt dps specs that they seem durable.

4) For Jugg and PT, skank tanks are the only viable option for pvp. Jugg DPS and PT DPS are squishy, and almost always targeted first. There is a few vengeance jugs with a 1800 solo rating, but those are some really good players who would have 2600-2800 rating on skank tank.

5) It takes forever to gear a skank tank if they want a set bonus. It's almost equal to the time it takes to get two full sets of 248 for other toons.

6) Skank tanks can't use "guard" as effectively as actual tanks. With damage mods, their shield and absorb ratings are stuck at 20%. Skank tanks can share damage via guard but they can't mitigate it anywhere close to effectively.

7) Bolster screws over skank tanks. You can't skank tank unless your gear is at or above bolster, because bolster gives tank specs tanking stats that are not effective in pvp. It's a miserable mountain to climb, because that means for months you're either going to be a really bad skank tank or a really dead dps. (The exception to that being Sins who can grind as dps without these issues.)

8) Skank tanks swap out their gear and become actual tanks sometimes. You might think that "Billy Bob" is a skank tank, but sometimes you just can't seem to hurt him on certain classes. Guess what: He might of just tricked you. You just got tricked by a guy named Billy Bob. Shame.

So stop complaining about skank tanks, and run one for awhile. That's what I did in my merc thread a year ago, when I asked them to "Tone down Trauma Regulators and Energy Rebounder." See how specific that is? It's specific because I knew exactly what I was talking about when I asked for nerfs. Instead of vague complaints, I leveled a merc from scratch, to see what it was like in lowbie and midbie pvp, and finally what it was like to actually have the utility points for the payout at endgame.

I wish even one tenth of the people who complained about skank tanks would show as much vigor in understanding skank tanks like that. It's always the same vague misunderstandings, lumping the three different skank tanks into one category despite them having different issues and abilities.

/endrant

Common Bioware... you nerfed every spec into the ground.., but skank tanks can still do 6-8 mil in pvp and not die

 

I’m not asking you to nerf their abilities or their proper dps output in while in tanking gear (which is how you balance the numbers internally).... but there needs to be something done to change this situation of them stacking dps gear...

 

The only solution I can think of that doesn’t require ability Nerfs is a debuff if they wear dps gear... this should work like Bolster used to when we had expertise.., if the tank goes over a certain amount of stats... they lose something else like health or power... this would stop them from stacking crit and power at the expense of defence and shield

 

I know this will be controversial for all those people using these dps builds... but if you want to dps... change spec... or learn to tank

No! nerf mercs and buff PT

The End

Skank tanks are getting a buff in two weeks. This isn't some unintentional side effect. It's Bioware's stamp of approval. This round of class changes are clearly pvp motivated. People who don't like it need to learn to cope. It's their own issue, not a skank tank issue.

 

*snip*

Tbh, I agree on almost everything in your post except this part.

I don't think BW know anything about this. Imo it's more their lack of knowledge and understanding of their own game that led us to this situation, where skanks actually will receive a buff in PvP when 5.6 comes. They did not "agree" or consent to anything. It's more that they don't know how this game works, and thus makes error while developping it.

And... Yeah, PT dps is garbage even in regs, yeah, dps jugg is also garbage in regs too, and yeah, sin dps will also become garbage in the next patch. Except if you're one of those guys who can't play without a premade to wipe their *ss you'll get crushed in PvP while playing in these spec.

So I completely understand that peoples go play skanks in these situations, because let's face it, spending an entire match getting globaled by the opposite team. And even if most skank players seems to disagree here, these hybrids are OP in their own ways. Just like Mara, Merc and snipers have their strong points in the current meta. Sure, skank may not be as powerfull as those, but they can hold their ground when it comes to pvp, and even sometimes in PvE for sins. PowerB mods allow you to still take advantage of the huge hp pool for spike damage/guardswap and your incredible aoe capacity and debuffs allow you to be a nightmare for the opposite team. Because yeah, even if most of it are aoe, they still hit hard on a single target (25k Firestorm, 24k Crushing Blow, 32k Depredating volts...).

Anyway, we're not here to discuss why skanks are "OP" or why they aren't.

As we all agreed here, they mostly exist because their dps counterpart are garbage. The most we can do to change this is ask for some changes regarding dps PT, dps Jugg and soon dps Sin.

Whining about skanks won't change things at all, since BW don't have the intention of making real tanks worth playing in PvP.

Fixing skanks won't solve the problem that some dps are still garbage, again, fixing the consequence (skanks) will leave the primary effect (garbage dps) as it is, and will only make peoples more angry. Let's all reflect on this, shall we ?

Anyway, we're not here to discuss why skanks are "OP" or why they aren't.

As we all agreed here, they mostly exist because their dps counterpart are garbage. The most we can do to change this is ask for some changes regarding dps PT, dps Jugg and soon dps Sin.

Whining about skanks won't change things at all, since BW don't have the intention of making real tanks worth playing in PvP.

Fixing skanks won't solve the problem that some dps are still garbage, again, fixing the consequence (skanks) will leave the primary effect (garbage dps) as it is, and will only make peoples more angry. Let's all reflect on this, shall we ?

I agree, I've been saying this ever since I swapped back a few months ago. The most efficient way to get rid of the skanks that prefer dps is simply to make the dps specs worth playing again. Skanking has been a PvP thing for a long time now and isn't going anywhere. It's only more dominant now because dps specs of tank capable classes are just so squishy.

I agree, I've been saying this ever since I swapped back a few months ago. The most efficient way to get rid of the skanks that prefer dps is simply to make the dps specs worth playing again. Skanking has been a PvP thing for a long time now and isn't going anywhere. It's only more dominant now because dps specs of tank capable classes are just so squishy.

This. i love Rage juggernaught and tried to play it for a long time both in PVP/pve. As soon as i switched to immortal my PVP experience completely changed. I am still working on my tank set with dps mods but even wearing my DPS set (i lean towards HP on my dps set a bit so that helps) as an immortal was a HUGE improvement. That is silly.

ALSO, doing the same thing changed veteran story mode for me as well, so skanking in single player is also effective. seems not right to me.

Common Bioware... you nerfed every spec into the ground.., but skank tanks can still do 6-8 mil in pvp and not die

 

I’m not asking you to nerf their abilities or their proper dps output in while in tanking gear (which is how you balance the numbers internally).... but there needs to be something done to change this situation of them stacking dps gear...

 

The only solution I can think of that doesn’t require ability Nerfs is a debuff if they wear dps gear... this should work like Bolster used to when we had expertise.., if the tank goes over a certain amount of stats... they lose something else like health or power... this would stop them from stacking crit and power at the expense of defence and shield

 

I know this will be controversial for all those people using these dps builds... but if you want to dps... change spec... or learn to tank

Let me get this straight you think skank tank is OP tell me on the Jedi dolly were the bad skank tank touch you. Because as a dps spec class there is not been a skank tank in 6 years I could not kill in seconds. Sure they get more damage but they also take a fair amount of damage doing so. With out pocket heals they are just a loot pinata with out loot...

Tbh, I agree on almost everything in your post except this part.

I don't think BW know anything about this. Imo it's more their lack of knowledge and understanding of their own game that led us to this situation, where skanks actually will receive a buff in PvP when 5.6 comes. They did not "agree" or consent to anything. It's more that they don't know how this game works, and thus makes error while developping it.

 

:snip:

 

I think we both agree that Bioware Austin is bad at seeing eventual concequences of decisions, but this is different from that in my opinion. It's a straight up buff. There isn't anything subjective about how it's going to play out. All of the utility changes for 5.6 seem to be directly related to pvp, and it's not complicated in the least to see that skank tanks would benefit from the changes. I think they knew what they were doing. I see it as an acknowledgement that skank tanking in pvp is encouraged.

Remember Snave's interview with Eric Musco, and the question regarding skank tanking? The dev team is definetly aware of skank tanks. I think it's simply transitioned from tolerance to being outright expected to do so in pvp.

I think we both agree that Bioware Austin is bad at seeing eventual concequences of decisions, but this is different from that in my opinion. It's a straight up buff. There isn't anything subjective about how it's going to play out. All of the utility changes for 5.6 seem to be directly related to pvp, and it's not complicated in the least to see that skank tanks would benefit from the changes. I think they knew what they were doing. I see it as an acknowledgement that skank tanking in pvp is encouraged.

 

Remember Snave's interview with Eric Musco, and the question regarding skank tanking? The dev team is definetly aware of skank tanks. I think it's simply transitioned from tolerance to being outright expected to do so in pvp.

They should add a disclaimer near the description of underpowered spec in pvp :

"This spec isn't recommended for PvP content"

and put another under the tank spec :

"recommended for PvP content, along with damage dealing gear"

Remember Snave's interview with Eric Musco, and the question regarding skank tanking? The dev team is definetly aware of skank tanks. I think it's simply transitioned from tolerance to being outright expected to do so in pvp.

At this point it's either accept that skanking is the way to tank in PvP or attempt to overhaul the entire system so that def/shield/absorb do something to help survivability.

Guess what's easier for them?

Most of the problems with PVP tanks are in my opinion due to the fact that devs were unimaginative with how the skills do damage. Damage is tied to crit/power/mastery and that's it.

Take this made up skill :

Shield Bash: do damage equal to two times your shield level.

Problem solved, tanks would stack shield, which would work both in pve and in pvp.

But as it were, the easiest way to survive a pvp encounter is for the other guy to be dead before you are. Which means stacking crit and mastery.

Skanks are just PVP tanks. PVE tanks are useless in PVP.

At this point it's either accept that skanking is the way to tank in PvP or attempt to overhaul the entire system so that def/shield/absorb do something to help survivability.

 

Guess what's easier for them?

Exactly that. The outrageous Critical chance of the current end game gear gives no chance to pure tanks.

6-8M is highly unlikely. Highest could be 4M and that's already a stretch. Nothing constructive here, I think you're just butthurt and you need some cheese for that whine.

Yep... I’m butt hurt... only been pvping for 6 years straight and have more pvp hours under my belt than most...

Just because you can’t do 6mil or haven’t seen it... doesn’t mean others can’t do it...

Most ledgitmate pvpers know that skanks are OP... there is no whine.., just an observation that Bioware nerfed every class for “balance”... but didn’t bother balancing tanks in dps gear...

I agree with some of the other posters... they need to make defence and shield stats count for something again... then add a debuff to tanks wearing “too” much dps gear...

It they were to do both at the same time... it would fix the problem

 

https://i.imgur.com/YzpbUV7.png

That's one cozy *** apartment.

That's one cozy *** apartment.

Thanks.

Common Bioware... you nerfed every spec into the ground.., but skank tanks can still do 6-8 mil in pvp and not die

 

I’m not asking you to nerf their abilities or their proper dps output in while in tanking gear (which is how you balance the numbers internally).... but there needs to be something done to change this situation of them stacking dps gear...

 

The only solution I can think of that doesn’t require ability Nerfs is a debuff if they wear dps gear... this should work like Bolster used to when we had expertise.., if the tank goes over a certain amount of stats... they lose something else like health or power... this would stop them from stacking crit and power at the expense of defence and shield

 

I know this will be controversial for all those people using these dps builds... but if you want to dps... change spec... or learn to tank

Working as intended.