Personally i think I made a mistake when getting my campaign relic by getting the absorb relic, i really should have gotten the on use defense relic.

 

That said, with the changes to the war hero and battlemaster relics in 1.3, what do you guys think is better. Would you guys still use your matrix cube, and what types of relics will you be using.

 

Also, with augments, what will tanks be putting in their augment slots? From my own understanding, it seems good to be stacking defense augments, because right now (mostly BH gear + a few rakata pieces), I am no where close to the defense cap (16.2% defense atm).

 

So what is the plan with everyone else?

I'm happy with my absorb proc relic, I'll keep using it in 1.3, pve relics aren't being changed much- just the pvp ones are.

Personally, I'm using the absorb proc relic and the defense click relic.

Augments are almost entirely defense, with a couple absorb thrown in.

Nothing changed enough with 1.3 to warrant changing strategies.

I have been using both Campaign relics (shield/absorb) because the proc one is good and the "oh ****" one is nice to have for certain bosses. I experimented a bit with the matrix cube now that is has Def.

 

I need to look more into the WH relics, but my hunch is that they are far superior. The reasoning there is yes you are sacrificing 11 endurance or so, but gaining 90 def/shield. You are also stuck with expertise rather than aim, but since PT's have higher dps than the other tanks now, the aim isn't really necessary. Granted, on fights where you need that extra bit of dps, matrix cube all the way. But for HM Denova, the extra survivability just makes sense (Kephess being the exception because its more of a dps race).

 

Side note: I would also continue using the shield/absorb on use relic over the def because you get up to an insanely high shield chance rather than a moderately high def chance. However, stacking def augments isn't a bad idea.

 

Side note2: My thoughts on augments - Def > Shield > Absorb. I probably won't put in any absorb augments, but 10 def and 4 shield would be a good ratio. No reason not to push shield even higher. I was at 602 rating (54ish %) last night, but my shield augments weren't done being crafted before i logged.

Edited June 27, 2012 by NefNef

I'm stacking all green shield augments just for giggles to see if it has much impact. Only have like 4 or 5 parts augmented so far and sitting at 54.29% shield. Going to parse the effect on an Op or two. Then switch to all green defense, and parse that. See what helps me the most, then go purples on that as Neural Augments are too crazy expensive to test with.

 

Un-augmented I was at 51.6 shield, 51.4 absorb.

 

Relics, I'll stick with my Absorb proc. I might drop my shield/absorb click for a defense or something though.

BIS for tanks now: War Hero/Battlemaster Tanking relics. Both are HUGE static increases of Defense/Shield. Then throw your augments to be full absorb.

 

It appears that a hard cap of absorb sits at around 70%, or the DR is so steep at that level that points are basically meaningless. Shield is closer to a hard cap fo 68% while Defense is just slightly above 30%.

 

I did the math last night while instructing my secondary tank (Juggernaught) on how each affects the other with regards to avoidance/mitigation and how easy it is to heal. We will be collecting logs to compare with our existing logs so people can see actual numbers behind it.

 

However, 1st impressions last night in 16 EC HM with the new changes was VERY IMPRESSIVE. I normally use Energy Shield on Toth's Berserk, didn't have to at all last night. Firebrands hits were a joke, and the only time I got low was one unlucky crit from his frontal. Vorgath, same thing, hardly any incoming damage except for his dot that our healers cleanse immediately. The real test was Kephess. He used to hit like a truck. Not anymore.

 

Last night my stats were (no BM trinkets yet) with buffs/stim:

 

Armor - 8760

Damage Reduction - 53.78%

Defense - 19.03% (I put in a 10/4 split of defense/absorb augs)

Shield - 53%

Absorb - 57%

 

With the relics and me switching out some of the defense augs for absorb augs, it will be a pretty picture indeed as I won't lose much defense at all, but gain the extra shield rating to put me at 60%, and the absorb will hit 70% on the mark. It won't get any better than that.

Edited June 27, 2012 by pure_laced

Last night my stats were (no BM trinkets yet) with buffs/stim:

 

Armor - 8760

Damage Reduction - 53.78%

Defense - 19.03% (I put in a half and half of defense/absorb augs)

Shield - 53%

Absorb - 57%

 

You must have stacked more Def than Absorb in your mods that I did I don't remember the exact numbers but I was:

Dmg Red - 53-54%

Defense - 17.8%

Shield - 54%

Absorb - 56% (w/o HS)

 

That is with 5 def augments, 1 absorb, 1 shield, no PVP relics

Updated my post. I have a 10/4 split Def/Absorb augs.

I got the two BM trinkets, and swapped out all my augs except 2 because I couldn't find any more absorb augs. Stats fully buffed with Exotech Stim:

 

Health - 24985

Armor - 8760

Dmg Reduction - 53.78%

Defense - 18.03% (375 rating)

Shield - 56.08% (653 rating)

Absorb - 61.71% (625 rating) - also not including the 8% gain with 4 stack heat screen.

 

This is about as close to min/max I can get having:

 

Squishiness 0.2375

SigmaSquish 0.2030

Spikeyness 1.4214

 

All other combos are such a tiny improvement, in all reality I think this is the best it will get.

Edited June 27, 2012 by pure_laced

I must be doing something wrong with this spreadsheet. I put in your same numbers and got different results. I changed the base stats and stat weights to the PT ones.

 

Armor: 8XXX (I used your 8760 in the spreadsheet)

Dmg Red: 54ish? (Ask Mr. Robot character builder armor value is not right. I suspect imperial pilots chestpiece)

Def: 18.8% (407 rating)

Shield: 59.97% (808 rating)

Absorb: 56.24% (461 rating)

(with exotech stim, no HS)

 

Squishiness: 0.24797

SigmaSquish: 0.18619

Spikey-ness: 1.30335

(Again, these may not be correct)

 

I do see the trend though. My best-for-the-money stat right now is certainly absorb.

Edited June 28, 2012 by NefNef

The spreadsheet base stats for the PT/Vanguard are out of date because it was using pre 1.2 values. The correct values are: 0.09, 0.07, 0.28, 0.32

 

With your values for what you have I see this:

 

Squishiness: 0.2374

SigmaSquish: 0.1955

Spikey-ness: 1.3691

 

Which is better than mine currently. The DR curve for Shield starts to curve heavily at the 58% mark and above, which is why I kept it lower and went for more absorb. But it would appear that it is still a better stat point for point than absorb until about 65%-ish. With Heat Screen, I am almost capped on Absorb, so I could actually drop some absorb augments for shield to min max it a little more. I didn't even think about that, but dropping 108 absorb (6 augs) and putting them into shield nets me:

 

Squishiness: 0.2377

SigmaSquish: 0.1978

Spikey-ness: 1.3852

Edited June 28, 2012 by pure_laced

Ah, of course!

 

That also helps me to answer my next question. Rather than using 2x BM shield relics, it is better to use 1 def, 1 shield. (Giving 510 Def rating and 705 shield rating)

 

Squishiness: 0.2367

SigmaSquish: 0.19856

Spikey-ness: 1.38991

 

That also makes the def and shield armor equivlents pretty darn close at 1.482 and 1.451, respectively.

The next question is what augments to put on those 2 relics (they are my only none augmented pieces). Based off the stat weights of the spreadsheet, it wants absorb. However, based on the following chart, I don't think that is necessarily the case:

http://i.imgur.com/5QBlo.png

 

Being that it is just 32 points, its a drop in the ocean.

 

+32 Def

0.2348

0.1988

1.3921

 

+32 Shield

0.2349

0.1979

1.3858

 

+32 Absorb

0.2342

0.1995

1.3969

Edited June 28, 2012 by NefNef

The problem with so much defense that I noted in real application the other night was the lack of heat venting. If mobs are missing you (high defense), you miss out on the 50% chance to vent 8 heat. I found myself a lot of times with high heat, which never happened before. Sure, I am tons easier to heal now, just the dps will go down quite a bit more than it did with the nerf as we manage heat.

True, but with the threat buff, aggro is a joke so damage doesn't matter for us. As long as the DPS roles are augmenting/using pvp relics, any damage loss we would see is more than made up for. Keep in mind you get to use flame sweep x 2 as a way to get rid of heat (just like TSO + Flamethrower) Edited June 28, 2012 by NefNef

True, but with the threat buff, aggro is a joke so damage doesn't matter for us. As long as the DPS roles are augmenting/using pvp relics, any damage loss we would see is more than made up for. Keep in mind you get to use flame sweep x 2 as a way to get rid of heat (just like TSO + Flamethrower)

 

Only after a Jet Charge which after the initial charge, if you are tanking something, you cannot jet charge to it as it stays with you if you try and run out. 8P Trash doesn't count. I personally think it was a stupid change they did and unnecessary.

Only after a Jet Charge which after the initial charge, if you are tanking something, you cannot jet charge to it as it stays with you if you try and run out. 8P Trash doesn't count. I personally think it was a stupid change they did and unnecessary.

 

You have ample opportunity to jet charge multiple times during every fight in EC HM (assuming you tank swap on Toth and Zorn and tank Storm Caller). We are still way ahead of the juggs and sins in DPS.

Edited June 28, 2012 by NefNef

You have ample opportunity to jet charge multiple times during every fight in EC HM (assuming you tank swap on Toth and Zorn and tank Storm Caller). We are still way ahead of the juggs and sins in DPS.

 

Trust me, I know. It was still an unnecessary change to our talents though.

Trust me, I know. It was still an unnecessary change to our talents though.

 

Agree to disagree. Its fun jumping into a group of ugnaughts and spamming flame sweep a few times without overheating

maybe im doing it wrong but my healers are dpsing most fights rather than healing... i dont understand why you guys are stacking shield and absorb sooo high right now i believe my stats are 54 dmg reduction 8.6-8.7k armor 16.5 def 51.24 shield and 51.46 absorb and i stacked all 18/12 aim/end augments buffed with no stim im sitting at 25002 hp and have 1935 aim and 2365 endurance... ive had my shield chance and absorb up to 55 before but i didnt notice a huge increase on shielded attacks.. and what build are you guys using to get the vent heat in pyro cause im taking the 2% dmg reduction in ap rather than the 3% endurance talent

maybe im doing it wrong but my healers are dpsing most fights rather than healing... i dont understand why you guys are stacking shield and absorb sooo high right now i believe my stats are 54 dmg reduction 8.6-8.7k armor 16.5 def 51.24 shield and 51.46 absorb and i stacked all 18/12 aim/end augments buffed with no stim im sitting at 25002 hp and have 1935 aim and 2365 endurance... ive had my shield chance and absorb up to 55 before but i didnt notice a huge increase on shielded attacks.. and what build are you guys using to get the vent heat in pyro cause im taking the 2% dmg reduction in ap rather than the 3% endurance talent

 

its the ST tree talent that vents heat when you shield an attack (50% chance when two talent points are invested allows 8 vented heat every 6 seconds).

Where is the spreadsheet to which you guys are referring?

maybe im doing it wrong but my healers are dpsing most fights rather than healing... i dont understand why you guys are stacking shield and absorb sooo high right now i believe my stats are 54 dmg reduction 8.6-8.7k armor 16.5 def 51.24 shield and 51.46 absorb and i stacked all 18/12 aim/end augments buffed with no stim im sitting at 25002 hp and have 1935 aim and 2365 endurance... ive had my shield chance and absorb up to 55 before but i didnt notice a huge increase on shielded attacks.. and what build are you guys using to get the vent heat in pyro cause im taking the 2% dmg reduction in ap rather than the 3% endurance talent

 

I think this is a good question to ask. At the point where your healers are already having no problems with you, an increase in dps may be the best option unless you wish to make sure you're at maximum survivability ready for the next tier of content?

 

Though, how much would filling up on the aim augments really increase the dps of a tank?

IMO getting 18 D/S/A and 12 Power on an augment is far superior to 18 Aim and 12 Endurance, for a tank. but YMMV.

 

Matrix Cube is awful for tanking. Campaign shield proc is (obviously) better than War Hero shield proc for PVE. As far as clicky relics go, the Campaign and War Hero are a bit closer to each other, with the War Hero having slightly more average mitigation across a fight, while the Campaign versions have more offensive power and more "burst" survivability. IMO the best setup is Campaign shield proc + Campaign shield+absorb clicky.

IMO getting 18 D/S/A and 12 Power on an augment is far superior to 18 Aim and 12 Endurance, for a tank. but YMMV.

 

Matrix Cube is awful for tanking. Campaign shield proc is (obviously) better than War Hero shield proc for PVE. As far as clicky relics go, the Campaign and War Hero are a bit closer to each other, with the War Hero having slightly more average mitigation across a fight, while the Campaign versions have more offensive power and more "burst" survivability. IMO the best setup is Campaign shield proc + Campaign shield+absorb clicky.

 

Prior to 1.3 I would agree. Post-1.3, War Hero PVP static shield/def relics are BiS for tanking, end of story.

 

The spreadsheet we are referencing can be found here: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-Tanking-stat-spreadsheet-online

Hiya, I got an alt powertech that's currently specced tanky, and I was wondering why the reason behind some augmenting for endurance? The defensive stat augments(absorb/defence and perhaps shield) has to be far superior since I don't think gear-wise we've reached the point where the DR is so hard on all of our defensive stats that endurance is better, or fights that requires that much health. Please correct me if I'm wrong tho as I haven't done any theory-crafting or seen any on this subject Edited July 10, 2012 by Gorzh