"BioWare needs to ignore this feedback because it's "generic"" isn't semantics though. It's "these arguments are inconvenient, and should be ignored". Why someone would be against this is every bit as important to BW as the fact that they are, or they wouldn't have asked for the feedback.

You will notice if you read all of my posts I have never said anything close to what you’ve just said or that people’s opinions don’t matter about the chapter or wether Bioware should or shouldn’t ignore people’s feed back if they disagree with the OP.

All I have done is try to keep the conversation on topic and asked people to not derail the thread by arguing for arguments sake, which is what 60% of the thread has turned into.

Anyway. I just want to reply so that people didn’t think I was being misrepresented or linked to the “inverted commas” quotes in your post.

I think everyone’s opinion is valid on wether the chapters and rewards should be offered again. But beating a dead horse over and over and over to argue, isn’t productive feedback IMO.

You will notice if you read all of my posts I have never said anything close to what you’ve just said or that people’s opinions don’t matter about the chapter or wether Bioware should or shouldn’t ignore people’s feed back if they disagree with the OP.

All I have done is try to keep the conversation on topic and asked people to not derail the thread by arguing for arguments sake, which is what 60% of the thread has turned into.

Anyway. I just want to reply so that people didn’t think I was being misrepresented or linked to the “inverted commas” quotes in your post.

I think everyone’s opinion is valid on wether the chapters and rewards should be offered again. But beating a dead horse over and over and over to argue, isn’t productive feedback IMO.

Nor did I say you did, however, one of the "polls" did. I commented to you about the semantics debate, of which the post you were replying to had nothing to do with, and listed that as to why I disagree about "arguing semantics".

All I have done is try to keep the conversation on topic and asked people to not derail the thread by arguing for arguments sake, which is what 60% of the thread has turned into.

I don't personally think that it's up to you to decide what is or isn't on topic to the conversation. If anything, your posts along this line have brought us further off topic. If BW saw a problem with the direction of the thread then they could easily remove some comments or post themselves requesting players post specific feedback.

All of the debate between parties has been about the question of bringing the rewards back again and, if they do return, how BW should do it. Some of those debates lead to dissection of points and counter points that are extremely significant to why someone feels the way they do about any course of action. I respect that many players feel differently than I do and appreciate anyone who voices their opinion or attempts to understand the opinions of others in the thread.

 

Getting lots of support for HK-55 and chapter 10 to made available for subscribers who missed out.

Especially those people who’ve been continuously subbed for the last 6-12 months.

 

Eric, can you please bring this up with Keith. It would add some extra playable content into the game for those who’ve not done it, while we wait for 6.0 to be released.

 

EDIT: I’ve started another thread for everyone to discuss past rewards for older subs and what would continue to make you feel valued if old rewards were offered again.

Please take that part of the discussion over there so this thread can stop being derailed with bickering http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=963865

I disagree. its not because I want to have some semblance of "exclusivity", but rather I don't like the fallout.

For some, it seems like its petty that certain people got it and others didn't. Heck, even my sons wanted to play it and they got hosed. The back story was this - We got it as a sub reward for not ditching SWTOR in the middle of KOTFE when there was delay after delay. It was a special reward for those that didn't drop and ditch. You had to remain subbed for the entire length of KOTFE being released to get it (about a year). The problem with how it was set up was people subbed to get the first 9 chapters, dropped for a year then swung back in after Chapter 15 and got them all. So you have one camp that subbed all the way through for about $180ish and another that gets the same results (in the end) for $30.

So why do I care if you get it now? Honestly I don't care. But I do care what it does for the 'word' of the dev team if they ever attempt to do it again in the future. Imagine if it comes to where they opt to do some promo like KOTFE again. The problem is its becomes a vicious cycle of ever growing rewards like a death spire and false promises of 'exclusivity' which will kill a game in the long run. For this reason alone, I would say don't give it away.

Now - I'm not opposed to making someone 'pay' to get it. If they want to make it worth subbing, they would need to price it for something that inflicts some sort of 'pain' to those that didn't sub through. If they made it for something like 25,000 CC or whatever they decide, that to me would be fair - You want it, pony up 25k in CC (about $180 or so) which is what people spent to get it in the subbing. Plus next time they do something like this, its a incentive to stay subbed at the minimum or you can pay for it later in a large sum. Either way you will pay.

Alternatively, if they wanted to drop something like 25,000 to those that subbed and got it as 'repayment' for it, then that would work too.

Blak

I disagree. its not because I want to have some semblance of "exclusivity", but rather I don't like the fallout.

 

For some, it seems like its petty that certain people got it and others didn't. Heck, even my sons wanted to play it and they got hosed. The back story was this - We got it as a sub reward for not ditching SWTOR in the middle of KOTFE when there was delay after delay. It was a special reward for those that didn't drop and ditch. You had to remain subbed for the entire length of KOTFE being released to get it (about a year). The problem with how it was set up was people subbed to get the first 9 chapters, dropped for a year then swung back in after Chapter 15 and got them all. So you have one camp that subbed all the way through for about $180ish and another that gets the same results (in the end) for $30.

 

So why do I care if you get it now? Honestly I don't care. But I do care what it does for the 'word' of the dev team if they ever attempt to do it again in the future. Imagine if it comes to where they opt to do some promo like KOTFE again. The problem is its becomes a vicious cycle of ever growing rewards like a death spire and false promises of 'exclusivity' which will kill a game in the long run. For this reason alone, I would say don't give it away.

 

Now - I'm not opposed to making someone 'pay' to get it. If they want to make it worth subbing, they would need to price it for something that inflicts some sort of 'pain' to those that didn't sub through. If they made it for something like 25,000 CC or whatever they decide, that to me would be fair - You want it, pony up 25k in CC (about $180 or so) which is what people spent to get it in the subbing. Plus next time they do something like this, its a incentive to stay subbed at the minimum or you can pay for it later in a large sum. Either way you will pay.

 

 

Alternatively, if they wanted to drop something like 25,000 to those that subbed and got it as 'repayment' for it, then that would work too.

 

 

Blak

LoL, 25k CC for repayment. Sorry but that is sooooooo over the top that I think your whole premise for not wanting people to have it is false.

I disagree. its not because I want to have some semblance of "exclusivity", but rather I don't like the fallout.

 

For some, it seems like its petty that certain people got it and others didn't. Heck, even my sons wanted to play it and they got hosed. The back story was this - We got it as a sub reward for not ditching SWTOR in the middle of KOTFE when there was delay after delay. It was a special reward for those that didn't drop and ditch. You had to remain subbed for the entire length of KOTFE being released to get it (about a year). The problem with how it was set up was people subbed to get the first 9 chapters, dropped for a year then swung back in after Chapter 15 and got them all. So you have one camp that subbed all the way through for about $180ish and another that gets the same results (in the end) for $30.

 

So why do I care if you get it now? Honestly I don't care. But I do care what it does for the 'word' of the dev team if they ever attempt to do it again in the future. Imagine if it comes to where they opt to do some promo like KOTFE again. The problem is its becomes a vicious cycle of ever growing rewards like a death spire and false promises of 'exclusivity' which will kill a game in the long run. For this reason alone, I would say don't give it away.

 

Now - I'm not opposed to making someone 'pay' to get it. If they want to make it worth subbing, they would need to price it for something that inflicts some sort of 'pain' to those that didn't sub through. If they made it for something like 25,000 CC or whatever they decide, that to me would be fair - You want it, pony up 25k in CC (about $180 or so) which is what people spent to get it in the subbing. Plus next time they do something like this, its a incentive to stay subbed at the minimum or you can pay for it later in a large sum. Either way you will pay.

 

 

Alternatively, if they wanted to drop something like 25,000 to those that subbed and got it as 'repayment' for it, then that would work too.

 

 

Blak

I believe this is the only correct approach. So many posted it proudly that they won't be so stupid to support BW with their ****, they will simply unsub and get everything by subbing at the end. I remember people also saying that the extra chapter won't be worth it anyway, it's gonna be the same **** quality. Now these people are butthurt, because the extra chapter turned out to be good.

The question to BW is: do you want to pander to those masses who left you and didn't support you when things got worse? Or do you want to keep your promise to those who supported you even when masses unsubbed?

If you want to choose the first option, you will need a very significant make-good for those who supported you in the storm, much bigger than I think you are comfortable with.

If you are a new player and that's the only reason you don't have it: I'm sory, but that's tough luck. Go to literally any other game, if you started playing that years after its initial release, it's guaranteed that you're gonna miss some old exclusive rewards. That's just the basic nature of games.

Eric and Daniel,

In the few days of posting privileges I have left (don't worry, I'll be back in all my glory for 6.0, but ESO has a new expansion out and I believe breaks are healthy)...

I would like the two of you to consider the following:

We are now at a point where people are saying that the standalone HK chapter and the concomitant companion reward is worth the cost of three entire and complete brand new AAA releases at U.S. $60 a pop -- or $180.

You might think of calibrating some expectations here. Or not.

Regards,

Dasty

Eric and Daniel,

 

In the few days of posting privileges I have left (don't worry, I'll be back in all my glory for 6.0, but ESO has a new expansion out and I believe breaks are healthy)...

 

I would like the two of you to consider the following:

 

We are now at a point where people are saying that the standalone HK chapter and the concomitant companion reward is worth the cost of three entire and complete brand new AAA releases at U.S. $60 a pop -- or $180.

 

You might think of calibrating some expectations here. Or not.

 

Regards,

 

Dasty

That’s what makes the whole thing funny. $60-$100 for 3yr old content.

We would be paying that on top of a sub if this were to happen and no one paid that much originally and not a single person can say they did. If they do they are lying.

$20-$40 is more than reasonable including the sub cost.

^^^Make it available for subs for a few bucks.^^^

That’s what makes the whole thing funny. $60-$100 for 3yr old content.

We would be paying that on top of a sub if this were to happen and no one paid that much originally and not a single person can say they did. If they do they are lying.

$20-$40 is more than reasonable including the sub cost.

^^^Make it available for subs for a few bucks.^^^

This is, in part, why I'm against the idea: "I want it, but since it's 3 years old, I shouldn't have to pay what those suckers that already have it paid for it".

IF they're going to re-issue the promotional content, they should simply re-issue the promotion. I'm not a fan of the concept, but it should be under the exact same terms and conditions as originally: From Date X to Date Y, which should be 7 months, with no retroactivity. If "but it's three years old, it's not worth it" is a valid argument, then it's not worth re-releasing at all.

IF they're going to re-issue the promotional content, they should simply re-issue the promotion.

Works for me.

This is, in part, why I'm against the idea: "I want it, but since it's 3 years old, I shouldn't have to pay what those suckers that already have it paid for it".

 

IF they're going to re-issue the promotional content, they should simply re-issue the promotion. I'm not a fan of the concept, but it should be under the exact same terms and conditions as originally: From Date X to Date Y, which should be 7 months, with no retroactivity. If "but it's three years old, it's not worth it" is a valid argument, then it's not worth re-releasing at all.

That's a fair point. Value is determined by demand not age and as seen in this and all the previous threads concerning this, it still is in demand and therefore still holds it's value.

Now - I'm not opposed to making someone 'pay' to get it. If they want to make it worth subbing, they would need to price it for something that inflicts some sort of 'pain' to those that didn't sub through. If they made it for something like 25,000 CC or whatever they decide, that to me would be fair - You want it, pony up 25k in CC (about $180 or so) which is what people spent to get it in the subbing. Plus next time they do something like this, its a incentive to stay subbed at the minimum or you can pay for it later in a large sum. Either way you will pay.

 

 

Alternatively, if they wanted to drop something like 25,000 to those that subbed and got it as 'repayment' for it, then that would work too.

In accordance with this attitude, I too demand reparations.

As someone who bought the game for $60 in 2011, and then paid $15 per month for several months in the following year to maintain access, only to have the game switch to a F2P model where the entire class stories, among many other features, are available to players who don't pay a dime, I demand that all new players have to pay what I had to for them to experience the class stories and all those features.

Alternatively, EA/Bioware can refund me a couple hundred bucks to make amends for their horrendous deed of offering content to players in a manner that's different than how it was originally offered to me long before.

May the sarcasm be with you.

In accordance with this attitude, I too demand reparations.

 

As someone who bought the game for $60 in 2011, and then paid $15 per month for several months in the following year to maintain access, only to have the game switch to a F2P model where the entire class stories, among many other features, are available to players who don't pay a dime, I demand that all new players have to pay what I had to for them to experience the class stories and all those features.

 

Alternatively, EA/Bioware can refund me a couple hundred bucks to make amends for their horrendous deed of offering content to players in a manner that's different than how it was originally offered to me long before.

 

May the sarcasm be with you.

When was the vanilla game a promotion? Then there's the "not pay a dime" fallacy, right? Going month by month, a 7 month sub is about $105.00 US. That's a lot of dimes. In fact, it's more dimes than you paid for the vanilla game. With the addendum that, when I got my version of the game, I actually did buy it, since it came with RotHC.

Perhaps you're right though. Perhaps, the better thing to have done would have been to just let the game die, instead of trying to save it with a F2P model. Then you could be on reddit, or some other forum, lamenting the loss of another MMO. It's not like the F2P model was really, or is really touted as a F2P friendly model, yes? I mean, I bought the Collector's Edition of Aion, on Pre-Order, and definitely got what I paid for. My sub was active when it went F2P, and the balance of my sub was actually refunded to me, in the form of currency for the in game store.

A F2P player there actually does have full access to the game. There's no gear they can't equip, or even get as a quest reward because they're not participating in the sub model. There's no content that they are locked out of that everyone doesn't have a lockout on. They are free to chat as much as they like as well, and aren't limited on their hot bars.

So 4/10, for effort, I suppose?

They should just remove this mission from the chapter list. Problem solved. Most people won't even know or remember this even existed. It'll be just another one of the hundreds of missions everyone skips.

Also, expecting people to sub for 6+ months for a companion is insane. It says a lot when you have to resort to trickery to keep people subscribed when you expect the content isn't going to be enough.

This is, in part, why I'm against the idea: "I want it, but since it's 3 years old, I shouldn't have to pay what those suckers that already have it paid for it".

 

IF they're going to re-issue the promotional content, they should simply re-issue the promotion. I'm not a fan of the concept, but it should be under the exact same terms and conditions as originally: From Date X to Date Y, which should be 7 months, with no retroactivity. If "but it's three years old, it's not worth it" is a valid argument, then it's not worth re-releasing at all.

I would not mind to wait another 7 months. They are people who get nothing complaining. I point out that you can grant other people sometimes something. I do not pay thousands of cartel coins in one fell swoop. BW would be stupid to do it that way, most of them do not even have that much money a month.

They should just remove this mission from the chapter list. Problem solved. Most people won't even know or remember this even existed. It'll be just another one of the hundreds of missions everyone skips.

 

Also, expecting people to sub for 6+ months for a companion is insane. It says a lot when you have to resort to trickery to keep people subscribed when you expect the content isn't going to be enough.

Actually, you had to be a sub on Jan 11th 2016 to get HK-55. To get the bonus chapter you had to be a sub from Jan - August of that same year. No interruptions. There was no trickery involved. That link allows you to see what was available each month for being a sub. You could get any of those things without subbing the entire time as long as you were subbed the specific date of each item.

When was the vanilla game a promotion? Then there's the "not pay a dime" fallacy, right? Going month by month, a 7 month sub is about $105.00 US. That's a lot of dimes. In fact, it's more dimes than you paid for the vanilla game. With the addendum that, when I got my version of the game, I actually did buy it, since it came with RotHC.

On the contrary, we paid even more to access the class stories for those months leading up to the switch to F2P in November 2012. $60 for the game plus $15 a month for 10 months? That's $210. I'm just making the same demand that you are. Why should anyone have access to the same content as me years later, without having to do exactly what I had to?

If other players want access to the class stories, they should have to pay $210 just like I had to, or a $60 down payment and 10 months of subbing. It's only fair after all.

Perhaps you're right though. Perhaps, the better thing to have done would have been to just let the game die, instead of trying to save it with a F2P model. Then you could be on reddit, or some other forum, lamenting the loss of another MMO.

What's that? You mean I'm not entitled to make such a demand? It sounds absurd and unreasonable? EA/Bioware can release old content under different conditions as they see fit for the game's best interests, with little regard to my feelings? Well, this is awkward...

What's that? You mean I'm not entitled to make such a demand? It sounds absurd and unreasonable? EA/Bioware can release old content under different conditions as they see fit for the game's best interests, with little regard to my feelings? Well, this is awkward...

It's such a shame when one is hoisted by their own petard.

On the contrary, we paid even more to access the class stories for those months leading up to the switch to F2P in November 2012. $60 for the game plus $15 a month for 10 months? That's $210. I'm just making the same demand that you are. Why should anyone have access to the same content as me years later, without having to do exactly what I had to?

 

If other players want access to the class stories, they should have to pay $210 just like I had to, or a $60 down payment and 10 months of subbing. It's only fair after all.

 

 

 

What's that? You mean I'm not entitled to make such a demand? It sounds absurd and unreasonable? EA/Bioware can release old content under different conditions as they see fit for the game's best interests, with little regard to my feelings? Well, this is awkward...

Nice deflection, but really, did you address anything I said? Let's try again? When was the vanilla game a promotion? You built a nice strawman here, now let's see if you can support it. Anyone that has this content currently was required to maintain their sub for seven months. That was the terms and conditions for acquiring it. I wonder, what is it about this that makes you believe you, or anyone, should get it for any less? You see, I'm not asking for special treatment, nor am I asking for some kind of reimbursement, I'm stating they shouldn't release it again, since the dates set are past. I don't even like the idea of running a new 7 month promotion for it, I believe it should be dropped entirely from the quest logs for anyone that doesn't have it, and we should move on.

It's hilarious to read this thread after watching video after video about how EA has lied to their consumers, or done some shady deals, when you consider that here is a thread asking that they do just that, and run some shady deals on their customers. Isn't it funny how that "morality" shifts, when someone feels like they either cheated themselves out of something by not maintaining their sub, or just missed out because they weren't here.

This is, in part, why I'm against the idea: "I want it, but since it's 3 years old, I shouldn't have to pay what those suckers that already have it paid for it".

 

IF they're going to re-issue the promotional content, they should simply re-issue the promotion. I'm not a fan of the concept, but it should be under the exact same terms and conditions as originally: From Date X to Date Y, which should be 7 months, with no retroactivity. If "but it's three years old, it's not worth it" is a valid argument, then it's not worth re-releasing at all.

You didn’t pay that much for content. The fact we would be paying a little extra on top of sub cost is what I’m saying. We would be spending extra that you did not. That’s the point people are try to get across.

And yes with it being 3 yr old story content. Yes it should be rereleased

You didn’t pay that much for content. The fact we would be paying a little extra on top of sub cost is what I’m saying. We would be spending extra that you did not. That’s the point people are try to get across.

And yes with it being 3 yr old story content. Yes it should be rereleased

Then ya'll are deluding yourselves. 7 months of subbing to get the content is 7 months of subbing, I used my usual model, because that's what I tend to do: Come back for a month, pay for a month. I paid for 7, so anyone trying to argue "you didn't pay that much" really has no clue. I've already addressed "but you were going to sub anyway", because it's likely that I wouldn't have, at least not full time. I might have taken 6 of those 7 months off, for all that's worth, and just paid one month to get all of the expansion, sans the bonus content. Also, age is irrelevant, it's evidently got quite a bit of value, we're closing in on 60 pages of people trying to convince BW to let 'em have it, right?

I bowed out of this meatball laden thread a long time ago. BW will release the chapter or they wont. Any attempt to say, yay, or, nay tends to get met with junk from both sides. If the developers actually followed this thread I am sure that ended a long while back.

Personally, i am in the Nay side, but I also stated a largely ignored idea that was also met with junk because i had the audacity to state that Zoom and the deco should remain exclusive. I even said the horrible idea of making the chapter the natural end to the binoc quest chain; and added that HK55 should have his code copied and a new promotion for HK59 be made.

This covered all of the bases: it opened up the chapter to anyone who actually cared enough to do the quest chain leading up to it including the group quest. This would cut out all of the "i just want the chapter cuz" folks, but will still require some work regardless of how trivial some may think.. Next, it will open up a new HK model companion for the folks that want the HK unit, but are not bothered enough to get HK51--the superior HK unit. And it keeps the spirit of the offer by keeping Zoom and the deco as exclusives to those who earned it with the promotion.

I bet that wouldnt even be enough because as i learned from this thread and others like it...it will be an all or nothing. And when they are done with this topic they will be after the CE Vendor and Master Renos...and then off to every other offer made in the history of this game....because.

Actually, you had to be a sub on Jan 11th 2016 to get HK-55. To get the bonus chapter you had to be a sub from Jan - August of that same year. No interruptions. There was no trickery involved. That link allows you to see what was available each month for being a sub. You could get any of those things without subbing the entire time as long as you were subbed the specific date of each item.

Do forgive my memory as it seems to be a bit hazy.

Though I don't know if this makes it better or worse. I think it's worse. Yeah, it's definitely worse. 6+ months of subscription time for one mission? William H. Macy. And you don't even play your own character? Wow.

Given this personal revelation, I still believe (even more so now) that simply removing Shroud of Memory from the chapter list is the best solution. Soon, people won't even remember this mission even exists.

Soon, people won't even remember this mission even exists.

Until they see HK as a companion on fleet. Just as people saw Nico and Shae...Oh wait...

Curious how they offered Nico and Shae and (apart from BRKSM, who claims s/he knows people who left the game over this issue)...

Alderaan is still around for 3,000 more years.

The difference here is CONTENT (read Eric's post). Frankly, the case against re-releasing Nico and Shae (excluding her superiority) is stronger than the chapter on HK.

Dasty