Speaking mainly for Telekinetics in PVE..

 

First of all.. Here's what I don't understand. We've mentioned countless times that pushback is an issue in PVP and PVE. Not so much on our main abilities like disturbance and Turbulence, but MIND CRUSH. How many people in here have just canceled Mind crush mid cast because of raid wide damage or RANDOM AOE SPLASH DAMAGE IN PVP? The push back on that single ability is horrible, but that single ability is vital to sustaining our dps (mainly Telekinetics). The 2.6 patch is supposed to reduce our pushback on disturbance and turbulence to 100%... Great, but that still doesn't change the real problem.

 

Having been a Dps Sage (My main) since launch and cleared most HM and NiM content, I can tell you that this patch is worthless for TK and will not make a difference. The Guardians and Juggs are getting some long deserved love in the RIGHT direction.. Awesome, but who came up with the idea to remove the push-back on the two abilities that didn't need it? It's similar as boosting the damage on Quick shot for Scoundrels in a previous patch.. Was it needed or did people even use that ability? I sure didn't, it was a waste of energy and flurry of bolts gave almost as much damage, and is free. The 2.6 patch for Scoundrel Scrappers in is a step in the right direction by increasing the overall damage on their big hitters and fixing sucker punch/rolling punches. Their survivability, that's a different topic.

 

I am only ok with the damage from TK right now in Raids. It barely works and can keep me just under the Sentinels and Gunslingers in my raid team.. It just needs help and a little more commitment.. Why couldn't mental alacrity give a 100% chance to the skill "Telekinetic Momentum" instead of a 60% chance up from 30%. This mechanic only seems to work if the stars align, same for "Mental momentum".

 

I really like where the Dev team went with the 4 set alacrity bonus ( barely noticeable however), and the "Telekinetic Momentum" and "Mental Momentum" skill points. They just don't seem to make much of an overall difference in damage. Here is an example Parse on a 1MIL HP Dummy.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/561022/4/0/Overview

 

In the TK tree we have Turbulence which is our big hitter and our spam, disturbance. If we're lucky, a fast ticking TK throw.

 

Out of 1 million damage, only 5.24% (52k) was from TK momentum disturbances, and only 2.30% (23k) was from Mental Momentum Turbulences.. Thats only 7.54% (74k) of our total damage, out of 1 million.. This seems a bit flawed to me. Mental Alacrity does not help enough in my opinion to produce a second disturbance/turbulence, also flawed. I understand this would change the CD on Mental Alacrity, but its already on a long enough CD.. With our Build we can get mental alacrity on a 90 second cooldown, and with TK Momentum reduce it by 1 second each time it happens. After Several of my Ops Dummy trials, The average time Mental Alacrity came back off CD was 53 seconds, down from 90 seconds. Not bad except there is no way to control that. This is where I have a problem. A Knight can reduce the cooldown of Force Sweep/smash (their main Focus spec'd attack) everytime they use Slash, dispatch, and blade storm, guaranteed.... A gunslinger can guarantee a Quick shot immediately after a Charged Burst, Aimed shot, Series of shot, or 2 charged bursts. I know this may seem like apples and oranges. I'm referring to some kind of return/reward system.

 

In my opinion there is too much grey area and not enough commitment in the TK tree. Why not at least increase the stacks or force tremors to 5 instead of 3? Then at least we can have a goal to maximize our dps while spamming disturbance. Let the damage build similar to that of a Watchman Sentinel. We do have the word "momentum" throughout our skill tree and it is meant to be a bursty spec.

 

A few last things.. Everyone here seems feel the same thing the Brainstorming, more so in the Sorc forums..

 

1. Everyone here has mentioned the same things regarding force speed.

- Make Egress base line for Sages period!

 

2. Our many, many global cooldowns

- Take force armour off the GCD if applied to ourself

- Take our self heal off the GCD

- Take noble sacrifice off the GCD with stacks of resplendence. I can't tell you how slow and annoying it is to waste a global CD or two on noble sacrifice just before having to cast Deliverance. Its like throwing a wrench in the gears of your healing rotation!

 

3. Add some mobility to the TK spec period, and not to make it O.P., just give us disturbance on the move while

mental alacrity is up (baby steps )

 

4. A "blink" ability, or some kind of leap/flip escape in the direction you're facing

 

5. And last but not least... *Drum roll* An execute.

Actually no more small interrupts is a good buff for our class especially in damage heavy phases. However it still could have more improvements.

Just a couple of things with PvE TK Sages;

 

There has ben countless brainstorming about new skills and new things for our class after 2.0 or minor changes. Lack of an execute has always been something that boggled my mind in our class.

However, while there has been great ideas, they will probably be just something to consider for 3.0.

 

For the moment;

 

-Uninterruptable Mind Crush

-Force Mend with no GCD

-Higher RNG chance for momentums, especially during Mental Alacrity phases.

 

Could really give us the QoL we are looking for. Sage dps is not in a bad place but it could use some improvement in combat and when under heavy pressure.

 

Since Bioware seems to be removing most of the RNGs, probably to lift every class up to a number which is required for NiMM fights ( Come on they are removing RNGs with both guardian and scoundrels, no more failing Raptus challenge coz your guardian didn't get any procs ), we losing some RNG, at least in mental alacrity phase would be most welcome.

 

All the best.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Hakkology

Actually no more small interrupts is a good buff for our class especially in damage heavy phases. However it still could have more improvements.

Just a couple of things with PvE TK Sages;

 

There has ben countless brainstorming about new skills and new things for our class after 2.0 or minor changes. Lack of an execute has always been something that boggled my mind in our class.

However, while there has been great ideas, they will probably be just something to consider for 3.0.

 

For the moment;

 

-Uninterruptable Mind Crush

-Force Mend with no GCD

-Higher RNG chance for momentums, especially during Mental Alacrity phases.

 

Could really give us the QoL we are looking for. Sage dps is not in a bad place but it could use some improvement in combat and when under heavy pressure.

 

Since Bioware seems to be removing most of the RNGs, probably to lift every class up to a number which is required for NiMM fights ( Come on they are removing RNGs with both guardian and scoundrels, no more failing Raptus challenge coz your guardian didn't get any procs ), we losing some RNG, at least in mental alacrity phase would be most welcome.

 

All the best.

 

Thank you. I'm glad someone else is on board with the RNG flaw in TK momentum/Mental momentum just by itself and when Mental Alacrity is active. Either increase the general percentage or make it 100% just while Mental alacrity is active. Otherwise the Dps will remain unreliable and extremely inconsistent.

 

I've been able to get over the 1.2 patch nerf finally Now show us some love, like you've shown the rest of the "Jedi" in this game B.W.. Speaking of 1.2, Does anyone remember the 1/12/28 hybird build? Where TK wave proc'd from "presence of mind" Those were the days in pvp

Force barrier is the worst level 51 ability in the whole game. If you don't have a second healer to heal you while you're using it, it's positively useless. If you're on the brink of death, you're going to die anyway as soon as it ends. If you're the only healer on your team, your team members are going to die with you because you can't heal while channelling it. I would take roll or electro net over force barrier in a heartbeat.

 

Please change it so it isn't channelled. Make it root you in place and allow you to cast freely while it is active. I don't see this as an unbalanced request because the ability has such a long cool down.

Force barrier is the worst level 51 ability in the whole game. If you don't have a second healer to heal you while you're using it, it's positively useless. If you're on the brink of death, you're going to die anyway as soon as it ends. If you're the only healer on your team, your team members are going to die with you because you can't heal while channelling it. I would take roll or electro net over force barrier in a heartbeat.

 

Please change it so it isn't channelled. Make it root you in place and allow you to cast freely while it is active. I don't see this as an unbalanced request because the ability has such a long cool down.

 

Please get rid of the ability or make it similar to a Sentinel's Saber Ward. Having us use it and still be a able to cast or at least move would make sense... Here is what is currently happening with that ability.

 

1. I've been spotted by a Marauder and an Assassin, and within 2 seconds my health is almost nothing. I use force barrier, and THEY WAIT UNTIL THE CHANNEL IS OVER TO USE THEIR EXECUTE. Sage dead. Meanwhile A node I was trying to defend was getting capped ( because I was stuck in place), My teammate carrying the huttball got away from me without heals or a bubble (We both be dead).

 

2. Oh no, I've pulled aggro from the OPS boss and my health just disappeared, Used Force barrier and again, I'm stuck in place unable to cast/heal to full..... Healers are too busy healing the Tanks, force barrier ends and my threat has returned. I'm dead again. This could simply be a tanking issue, but the point I'm trying to make is how and WHY my threat gets put on hold while force barrier is active?

 

I don't see the problem with it at least being able to make us "Heal to full" (ourselves only) while force barrier is active. While others stand there brainlessly waiting for the force barrier to end hoping to get the killing blow, we could be returning at least 1/2 - 2/3 of our health. This would make them think twice about wasting there time (Make them pay).

 

What was the logic behind this ability? Right now, it works very well as Self CC..

My own opinion is strong and clear : I just don't want to play a kiting class. With all consequences.

There is nothing I could add to this.

 

Meanwhile I still love the Sage class, I'm angered by the fact that I'm forced to kite constantly - at least in PvP - and I'm very disturbed by the mind set that stands behind the premise "the Counselor should be a kiting class". I'm well beyond the point of "what were they smoking when they modelled this cxlass after that premise ???" - right now I'm merely sad. And highly disturbed. I don't remember a single kiting Jedi in the movies.

 

Now I believe that when we look at how the classes perform, we can retroactively deduct on the premise the developers had in mind when they designed that class.

 

What they were thinking when they decided "oh, and this should be a weak class which has to do kiting / escaping all of the time to survive because it is so squishy" really escapes me.

 

To me it's as if they had given Boba Fett the premise of : "Oh, he has a backpack, so let's make him a kiting class". I really see no logic in either of these premises, especially since - as I mentioned above - I really don't remember any kiting Jedi in the movies.

don't mind it's unique style-- used well you can actually endure for long periods of time compared to other classes, - but you have to do a lot of docking and hiding - which is fine for at elast one calss out of 8 to have that style, afterall variety is the spiec of life right?

 

one of the main issues, is that TK is not equipped to cope with that, which is why i keep suggesting it has to have additional help with movement.. i like that it is a cast spec, don't have problems with that, so, it should have some extra help with gaining hte space it needs to cast and some moements it can cast on the move.

 

a combination of being ble to cast onteh move while Mental alacrity/polarity shift is up AND having a leap back option/blink option similar to mages/hunters in Wow would be good, ADd tothat an increase in Force Wave's knock back for TK should help.

 

The force jump in the direciton you're facing is both stylish and provides an additional escape mechanic that fits it's more stationaly style by creating distnace.. whiles you could have that charge sytem i propsoed earlier on where disturbance buidls charges and you ohave 2 abiliteis that consume the charges to either add a knock back to turbulence/tk wave that increases wit hthe charges or consume to give some time casitng on the move.

i was never happy about Force Barrier, I felt it was the weakest of the new abilities, and it added the least to the spec. Don't get me wrong, it is handy to have to use, but it's incomplete which can border on annoying and it didn't even have a dps component like saber reflect does, and no effrot was made to give it one, it could at elast heal you up and dmage anyone who attacks it or rather emit a damaging aoe pulse that does aoe damge, allowing and ensuring everyone give you some room. or on ending, it explodes out forward doing a huge amount of dmage.

 

I prefer the second. it might be abit too much to be completely immune while doing damage, so best to do more dmaage but at the end, so at elast you again have some spae, if the barirer explodes doing a knock back it suits the sage better. TK and balance should at least have this, they shoudl both explode doing a lot of dmage, Bal. specs will have 25% of your health heaed preventing execute abiliteis from working on collapse, whiles teh Seer tree could heal you for a little more

 

Recap: To make Force Barrier more effective and suitable

Force Barrier:

• Base: heals you for 25% of your maximum health: otherwise uncahnged
  
• TK: Explodes doing a large amount of damage and knocking back enemies 10 or 15 m
  
• Balance: Collapses sapping energy of enemies doing x damage over 8 s and slowing the targets
  
• Seer: Heals for 50% of max health, and on ending heals all near by allies for a large amount of health and blinding enemies.
  

 

I like that you're stationary and the graphics effect it is given reminds me of the clone wars ability. So I don't think you should be able to move while it's up but you could add things to it that make it more useful on collapse, like the.

 

Additionally I agree:

Force Mend should be off the GCD

Mind Crush should not yield pushback for TK

but, Noble Sacrifice has to be on the GCD - it has no cooldown.

Would like project to do more, so it's beneficial to use in the rotation.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Macetheace

i was never happy about Force Barrier, I felt it was the weakest of the new abilities, and it add teh least - it diden't even have a dps component like saber reflect does, and no effrot was made to give it one, it could at elast heal you up and dmage anyone who attacks it or rather emit a damaging aoe pulse that does aoe damge, allowing and ensuring everyone give you some room. or on ending, it explodes out forward doing a huge amount of dmage.

 

I prefer the second. it might be abit too much to be completely immune while doing damage, so best to do more dmaage but at the end, so at elast you again have some spae, if the barirer explodes doing a knock back it suits the sage better. TK and balance should at least have this, they shoudl both explode doing a lot of dmage, Bal. specs will have 25% of your health heaed preventing execute abiliteis from working on collapse, whiles teh Seer tree could heal you for a little more

 

Before 2.0 hit live and I heard about the barrier, I thought that Telekinetics/Lightning should get a talent called "Turbulent Area/Static area" that should damage any opponent around the Sage/Sorcerer each time he's casting. I hadn't made my mind on which rate it should be, but now I think that each 0.5s of casting should have been the best choice.

The second purpose was that it wouldn't properly protect the Sage/sorcerer against melee interrupts, but so that when it happens it would be "You interrupted me, okay. But I damaged you anyway"

Why ? Because I despise the fact that the ranged class fearing melee the most is actually a Jedi/Sith.

 

As for Balance/Madness, at that time I thought that there could be talent that does so while channeling the Barrier, DoTs crit chances become 100% so that they indirectly self-heal. I hadn't a name for it or I don't remember it anymore. But imagine the surprise when the healing spec actually had a direct self-heal when channeling it...

Sage Telekinetics absolutely terrible in PvP. U cant kill some1 1 vs 1 when your mental alacrity is in CD. And u cant kill 1 vs 1, with it, guardians, marauders in all specs. Before patch 2.0 i had many duels with smashers and i won part of them (I played hybrid spec). Now, i havent chanse. Without instant force lift and long cast time plus I saw my biggest hit about 8.400 with 2 relics proc. Im full oboran, all mods 59wilp+49pwr, 0 crit, 76,54% surge, 1307 force bonus dmg on fleet, 1208exp. My friend guardian have laught on me. he wins 10/10 duels in focus build and same in vigilance spec. Sage needs more base dmg on his disturbance (2,6k now, need to increase about 3k) and turbulence (3k now, need to increase to 4k), and cast time down from 1,5s to 1,2s for disturbance and down from 2,0s to 1,7s for turbulence. telekinetic momentum must to be 45% (3 points about 15%) Edited January 31, 2014 by Mega_Fallos

He called me "2 master strikes" xD

i was never happy about Force Barrier, I felt it was the weakest of the new abilities, and it added the least to the spec. Don't get me wrong, it is handy to have to use, but it's incomplete which can border on annoying and it didn't even have a dps component like saber reflect does, and no effrot was made to give it one, it could at elast heal you up and dmage anyone who attacks it or rather emit a damaging aoe pulse that does aoe damge, allowing and ensuring everyone give you some room. or on ending, it explodes out forward doing a huge amount of dmage.

 

I prefer the second. it might be abit too much to be completely immune while doing damage, so best to do more dmaage but at the end, so at elast you again have some spae, if the barirer explodes doing a knock back it suits the sage better. TK and balance should at least have this, they shoudl both explode doing a lot of dmage, Bal. specs will have 25% of your health heaed preventing execute abiliteis from working on collapse, whiles teh Seer tree could heal you for a little more

 

Recap: To make Force Barrier more effective and suitable

Force Barrier:

• Base: heals you for 25% of your maximum health: otherwise uncahnged
  
• TK: Explodes doing a large amount of damage and knocking back enemies 10 or 15 m
  
• Balance: Collapses sapping energy of enemies doing x damage over 8 s and slowing the targets
  
• Seer: Heals for 50% of max health, and on ending heals all near by allies for a large amount of health and blinding enemies.
  

 

I like that you're stationary and the graphics effect it is given reminds me of the clone wars ability. So I don't think you should be able to move while it's up but you could add things to it that make it more useful on collapse, like the.

 

Additionally I agree:

Force Mend should be off the GCD

Mind Crush should not yield pushback for TK

but, Noble Sacrifice has to be on the GCD - it has no cooldown.

Would like project to do more, so it's beneficial to use in the rotation.

 

I agree with everything above regarding force barrier. Very interesting ideas! Although, the additional heals to allies upon collapse sounds a bit much. Force wave has that similar effect right now, and has actually made a significant difference to overall raid/PVP allies heals. I see the point, it just lacks utility in a lot of areas.

 

For all specs, it is just a waste of time in my opinion. Here is how and why I use it in PVP....

 

Ex. Luckily I managed to survive a horrible beatdown from all directions and before casting my force barrier, I interrupted the opposing team from capping a node/ channelling the door in void star/ capping a pylon in ancient hyper gate.. Just before it ends, I interrupt my force barrier channel to knock back/interrupt the opposing team from capping again. Then I die from Smash, assassinate, vicious saber all at once.. Ok so I bought my team a few seconds to re-collect on the objective.. I don't think this is what bio ware intended, but this is the best use I've made for it in PVP..

 

It has ZERO solo utility in PVP if trying to survive a 1 on 1 match. It just delays the inevitable, for what? If there is a healer close by, then yes, hopefully you'll get spotted and tossed some good heals. That makes sense. For now, knuckle heads just stand there and wait for the channel to finish For a healer it has zero utility, you can't heal, raid/ team dies, then you die.. I will admit there are some great uses in PVE especially on HM OPS boss mechanics to avoid serious damage (red circle damage), you just have to move first and away from the raid...

 

I like the ideas you've posted about giving force barrier an additional effect per spec. How could you spec into these, or where could you add skill points if any at all? Plus how can you justify giving more damage /heals to a Sage/Sorc without making them OP in PVE or PVP?

Can you pleeeeeaase give us an "execute" ability?

Most all classes have but not sage.

Just so we can do more damage for target under 30%.

We all love to see big numbers, especially at "execute" stage. So why don't let weaken minds have a 20% chance to let the target suffer increased damage (10/20/30%) from all of our attacks if target is under 30% health. Or something like that. Edited February 4, 2014 by seektravota

We all love to see big numbers, especially at "execute" stage. So why don't let weaken minds have a 20% chance to let the target suffer increased damage (10/20/30%) from all of our attacks if target is under 30% health. Or something like that.

 

Or what about "calls upon the force and activates mindcrush (50%/100%) decreased cast time when opponents health is under 30%".

 

This would kill 2 birds with one stone in my mind. MC has NO pushback protection AND give us some sort of execute.

 

Not game changing and certainly not making us op, just a nice QOL thing.

Edited February 4, 2014 by WooduckAUS

sage seer

 

Force Rejuvenate without cd. Reduce force cost from 28 to 15.

Using force barrier now cleans from every cd

Mental alacrity lasts 20 seconds, let the first healing skill apply without cast and grants alacrity up from 20% to 40%

Force Armor on self increases damage reduction by 10% (in addiction of telekinetic defence). Force-imbalance removed.

Casting time of benevolence reduced by 0.3 sec. Deliverance by 0.5

Force barrier, if talented, heals you up to 4% every seconds it lasts while force armor 1%

Edited February 12, 2014 by terzappi

sage seer

 

Force Rejuvenate without cd. Reduce force cost from 28 to 15.

Using force barrier now cleans from every cd

Mental alacrity lasts 20 seconds, let the first healing skill apply without cast and grants alacrity up from 20% to 40%

Force Armor on self increases damage reduction by 10% (in addiction of telekinetic defence). Force-imbalance removed.

Casting time of benevolence reduced by 0.3 sec. Deliverance by 0.5

Force barrier, if talented, heals you up to 4% every seconds it lasts while force armor 1%

 

i like this:rak_03:

Sage Healer. Some ideas to pick and mix from.

 

New 3 point talent in upper tiers healer tree. "Lowers the cast time of Benevolence by 33 / 66 / 100%"

 

Change the Force Ward talent so Force Armour and Force Barrier heals you for 1 / 2% instead of 0.5 / 1%

 

Reduce the cooldown of Rejuvenate from 6 to 4 seconds and lower the force cost to 20

 

Change Force Mend so it heal you for a % of your total max HP instead of a set number of HP, perhaps 30%. Also using Force Mend Restores 15% Force.

 

When protected by Force Armor, the force cost of all healing is decreased by 15%

 

Force Barrier increases Force Regeneration by 15%. In addition if Force Barrier ends early it lower the Cooldown of the next Force Barrier by 50%.

A short thought about Telekinetics tree, Would not increasing the proc chance of Telekinetic Momentum and Mental Momentum to 45% help a bit? I dislike the unreliable nature of the 30% proc chance, and sometimes it takes a surprisingly of time to proc. Edited February 24, 2014 by Petvin
a word to little

Lighsaber strikes decrease force speed cooldown by 1 sec or even force wave. Pick one. Edited March 2, 2014 by knell

Healing abilities that crit restore 2% health.