I_Sithed_MyPants Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) Just my groups DPS combat logs from the first 3 boss fights & Kephess' Warstrider (we couldn't kill Kephess) in NiM EC. If anybody has any advice or constructive criticism about how we can improve, I'd like to hear it. Toth & Zorn Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/2/0/Overview - 991.98 PowerTech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/4/0/Overview - 1338.3 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/7/0/Overview - 1243.77 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/1/0/Overview - 1291.13 Firebrand & Stormcaller Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/15/0/Overview - 1467.4 PowerTech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/17/0/Overview - 1662.37 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/20/0/Overview - 1431.93 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/14/0/Overview - 1423.34 Colonel Vorgath Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/25/0/Overview - 1146.07 PowerTech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/27/0/Overview - 1457.34 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/30/0/Overview - 1279.44 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/25/0/Overview - 1111.05 Kephess' Warstrider Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/time/1362564150/1362564171/0/Overview - 1751.63 Powertech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/time/1362607351/1362607368/0/Overview - 2058.46 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/time/1362607349/1362607368/0/Overview - 1655.67 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/time/1362607352/1362607366/0/Overview - 1949.1 Thanks for reading! Edited March 7, 2013 by I_Sithed_MyPants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raekor Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Just my groups DPS combat logs from the first 3 boss fights & Kephess' Warstrider (we couldn't kill Kephess) in NiM EC. If anybody has any advice or constructive criticism about how we can improve, I'd like to hear it. Toth & Zorn Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/2/0/Overview - 991.98 PowerTech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/4/0/Overview - 1338.3 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/7/0/Overview - 1243.77 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/1/0/Overview - 1291.13 Firebrand & Stormcaller Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/15/0/Overview - 1467.4 PowerTech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/17/0/Overview - 1662.37 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/20/0/Overview - 1431.93 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/14/0/Overview - 1423.34 Colonel Vorgath Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/25/0/Overview - 1146.07 PowerTech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/27/0/Overview - 1457.34 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/30/0/Overview - 1279.44 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/25/0/Overview - 1111.05 Kephess' Warstrider Marauder - http://www.torparse.com/a/156248/time/1362564150/1362564171/0/Overview - 1751.63 Powertech - http://www.torparse.com/a/156249/time/1362607351/1362607368/0/Overview - 2058.46 Sorcerer - http://www.torparse.com/a/156254/time/1362607349/1362607368/0/Overview - 1655.67 Mercenary - http://www.torparse.com/a/156241/time/1362607352/1362607366/0/Overview - 1949.1 Thanks for reading! Z & T looks fine to me. We pace the fight so we control the switches, never hit hard enrage doing it. It's not really a DPS race. Tanks, assuming the PT is on Stormcaller that is fine as long as the other DPS on him is about the same, the rest look low. Were you getting two double destruction's per phase? Did you clip hard enrage at the end? Vorgath looks fine, so much downtime in that fight. Kephess looks high to me. Did you wipe just after or during the Trandoshan aoe packs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Sithed_MyPants Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) Do you not think the Marauder's dps is low? I always thought they were supposed to be the best melee dps class. We use a different strategy for fb & sc, 3 attack fb so only 1 dd, so the PT is on firebrand with marauder solo dps'ing stormcaller we still go into the hard enrage for about 8 seconds though. Yeah we wiped during the Trandoshans, still working on that phase. The dps numbers I put there were just for the 20 or so seconds you can attack the Warstalker droid because I thought our dps was low there. Edited March 7, 2013 by I_Sithed_MyPants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raekor Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 A little low yes. Too low for Tanks, but I think Z & T only need an average DPS of 1100-1200 per character. Carnage would have a lot of downtime running away from Toth with no dots to continue DPS. Still a little low though. Haven't taken my Marauder in to NiEC though as he isn't geared enough, only my Merc and PT. I'll see if one of our geared ones has a log posted, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) A little low yes. Too low for Tanks, but I think Z & T only need an average DPS of 1100-1200 per character. Carnage would have a lot of downtime running away from Toth with no dots to continue DPS. Still a little low though. Wouldn't Carnage be better suited for that fight than Annihilation ? Without reading the lines from that mara log, I see Annihilation is 12.8% of overall damage. I think usually goes for around 18% - 20%. This maybe means mara losing the annihilator stacks when Toth jumps. That's always a dps loss (beyond the actual downtime on boss) and it's not so easy to avoid on that fight. Edited March 7, 2013 by wainot-keel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Sithed_MyPants Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Wouldn't Carnage be better suited for that fight than Annihilation ? Without reading the lines from that mara log, I see Annihilation is 12.8% of overall damage. I think usually goes for around 18% - 20%. This maybe means mara losing the annihilator stacks when Toth jumps. That's always a dps loss (beyond the actual downtime on boss) and it's not so easy to avoid on that fight. Yeah he is in Annihilation spec, so maybe that accounts for the lower dps on that fight. But on the other fights, the sorcerer is sometimes out dps'ing him, and even the mercenary is keeping up with him. Is this a cause for concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raekor Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 No logs. You're probably right on the spec, I'm not that great on my Marauder. More than enough for TFB, but that's it. It probably is a concern that the Sorc is doing more, but it could also be that the Sorc is exceptionally good. I know one player that can put out some insane numbers on his Sorc (PT, Mara, awesome tank, and awesome healer as well, he's got god mode with a 400 ping). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steave Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Do you not think the Marauder's dps is low? I always thought they were supposed to be the best melee dps class. Best? Yeah, when taking into account the utility, sure, but PTs match them in raw DPS potential, and while a PT is very easy to get maximum DPS out of it is much harder with a mara. Basically, the best maras and the best PTs will match eachother, but the gap between the best and worst maras are much greater than the difference between the best and worst PTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelereth Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I can only remember the dps on the first 2 fights of my own. The marauder you have has pretty low dps.. I run Watchman (Annihilation for marauders). I can hit around 1200-1300 (average) on T & Z and on the tanks i can hit around 1800. I wont go through his logs, im just saying this for your comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmon Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 ok i give up, where is that dam corrosive injection coming from? and yea seems the mara is pretty low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyluke Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Corrosive Injection is the attack from the proc relic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 More importantly it's the wrong relic. He's using the internal proc relic which uses your surge and your TECH CRIT Tech crit comes from Aim, Cunning and Crit Rating. He only has Crit rating and so it crits for a miserable 14% or less. Force users need to use Elemental and Energy relics which work on Force Crit. Tech users are Internal and Kinetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVork Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 More importantly it's the wrong relic. He's using the internal proc relic which uses your surge and your TECH CRIT Tech crit comes from Aim, Cunning and Crit Rating. He only has Crit rating and so it crits for a miserable 14% or less. Force users need to use Elemental and Energy relics which work on Force Crit. Tech users are Internal and Kinetic. What is a source of this information? Seriously, since when kinetic damage is tech only and not force based? Same thing with Energy damage, who told you that Energy proc relic uses specificly Force Crit Chance (even if character doesnt have it at all)? My proc relic actually crits 10% of the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 The mara seems low, I play a Jugg DPS and I usually do 1600+ at minimum on Firebrand/Stormcaller, and we still don't always avoid the 2nd DD. You preferably want all your DPS doing at least 1600 on that fight, with the best 2 stacked on 1 tank to help push the phases before the 2nd DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dassem Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Your Mara seems a bit low, I'll post my avg figures as context as why I'm saying that. For reference I am Carnage spec and fully what I consider BiS. T&Z:- I average around 1350-1550dps, though that normally involves me holding of dps on Toth to keep both bosses level. Can often see 10-15 gaps of 0 dmg or times where I just slack to make things easier came the final push. Fire/Storm:- I tend to avg between 1850-1950dps on this fight. I was avg close to 2k dps on this fight the other night up until after the last shield phase, then things went a little wrong with the other dps and where the DD went meaning I had a 15sec period of no dps followed by having to run to Fire then back to Storm for the DD. Ended up with 1870dps for the fight. If the dps on Fire could keep up though I could easily see constant figures of 1900+ and even 2k at times. Vorgarth:- 1100 for the most part, I hate this fight and normally just go into autopilot for it and just do enough to get through it. Warstrider:- On average I'm doing 3100-3400dps depending on crits during the first phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmViiOLENT Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 That Mara is extremely low, I was doing 1500-1700 on T&Z, 1900-2k on F&S, 1500 on Vorgath and 1600 on Kephess. I was running annihilation for those, and it came down to being smart with when you leaped and trying to keep up 3 stacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalBasss Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 That Mara is extremely low, I was doing 1500-1700 on T&Z, 1900-2k on F&S, 1500 on Vorgath and 1600 on Kephess. I was running annihilation for those, and it came down to being smart with when you leaped and trying to keep up 3 stacks. I agree that the Mara is low, but I'd say your numbers are not what to expect or demand out of someone either. Those numbers are all top 50 on torparse, top 5 on Kephess. I think 1400-1500 T&Z, 1700 FB/SC, etc... would be perfectly adequate for his group's makeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssaffin Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 What is a source of this information? Seriously, since when kinetic damage is tech only and not force based? Same thing with Energy damage, who told you that Energy proc relic uses specificly Force Crit Chance (even if character doesnt have it at all)? My proc relic actually crits 10% of the time... See this thread regarding relics: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssaffin Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 DPS numbers on certain fights can be misleading. For example, when I saw the numbers for Stormcaller and Firebrand, my first thought was the powertech was probably on Firebrand side and the marauder on Stormcaller. Why does it matter? Well, the Firebrand side has 3 trandoshians under the shield during defensive systems while the other side has two. And because the trandoshans are roughly 30% of the total fight damage, being a dps on Firebrand side props up your numbers. If you strip out the damage to the trandoshians, and just look at the damage to Stormcaller and Firebrand, the marauder was about 1109 dps while the powertech was 1163 dps. Not much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc_Gregor Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 My proc relic actually crits 10% of the time... My internal dmg relic crits 40% of the time which is around my tech crit chance as a lethality sniper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDotter Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Your sorc needs to double dot where applicable. I'm not running much content at the moment I did look old logs I had posted one of which used to be in the top 50 (minefield) and he/she can vastly improve overall dps by double dotting. Z&T: 1417 (Don't double dot) isn't a dps race as in and you can't afford to have both tanks risk getting fearful. Tanks: 1600+ This is my favorite fight. I usually stand on firebrand and dps storm while double-dotting both tanks off affliction CD. Its also better to use deathfield on the tank you're not dps'ing to get the increased % damage. Get to the bubble asap affliction everything, if applicable have a pt/sniper knock some out of the bubble to allow you to use deathfield. Minefield: Looks fine I'd say generally 1200+ is good. Its ranged job to kill the assassins droids and it buffs the overall dps. I personally don't dps the droid until its on the tanks but if you're short on dps its not a bad idea. Kephess: I can't give a real amount from my PoV, I heal for the third pack to keep the tank up and then we allow the healers a cooldown period to get energy/force back but 1350+ seems to do it from most of my logs. http://www.torparse.com/a/156485 Is my log from a timed run with a group In general the sorcs rotation seems fine, its full madness which I don't play but he/she is doing the main things (affliction/creeping taking extra %) recklessness W/correct abilities. I know full madness is what seemed to me force negative and I at times on tanks have to life tap myself so that'd be a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalBasss Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Seriously, since when kinetic damage is tech only and not force based? Same thing with Energy damage, who told you that Energy proc relic uses specificly Force Crit Chance (even if character doesnt have it at all)? My proc relic actually crits 10% of the time... For these relics - since always. "Who told you"... personally, I read it in several places and then tested it which is very easy to do. Switch over to the other type of relic and you'll quickly see your proc relic jump, and crit more in line with your tech/force (depending on class) crit chance. Additionally, the new relics (see dulfy) in 2.0 specifically say that kinetic/internal are tech and energy/elemental are force on the relics' tooltips. Not sure if the current ones do as I do not have access to the game right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Sithed_MyPants Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 So I took a closer look at my groups Marauder's log for SC & FB and saw that he didn't use Vicious Throw...at all. How much of a problem is this? I though Vicious Throw was a priority for Marauders after a boss has passed 30%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raekor Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'd say that is a big problem. I'm pretty sure DPS spikes up sub-30 for all classes that have special abilities or talents aimed at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Sithed_MyPants Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'd say that is a big problem. I'm pretty sure DPS spikes up sub-30 for all classes that have special abilities or talents aimed at it. Yeah that's what I though...I'll have to talk to him about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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