Okay so doing many playthroughs of SWTOR's KOTFE & KOTET (or as I like to call them Fallen Empire and Eternal Throne), I can't help but be urked by the outcome of the story. Specifically, regarding the traitor being Theron Shan.

My question is this:

"Why wasn't the traitor directly correspondant to whichever faction favoured you the least?"

I'll explain in some detail.

First of all, let's discuss the most significant potential traitors

Koth Vortena or Senya Tirall - Zakuul left in ruins

- Zakuul opressed under the Eternal Throne

- Parts of zakuul destroyed by ignoring to shut down the power grid during Beniko's rescue

- Parts of Zakuul destroyed by agreeing with Kaliyo to set off the bomb

- Zakuul innocents forced out and exiled due to questioning Arcan's rulership

- Scions wiped out for helping Outlander

- Arcan razing civilizations under Zakuul's rule to force the Outlander out

- Eternal Throne seat being empty leading the Fleet to randomly bombard several parts of Zakuul

- Zakuulan Singer (forgot her name) killed in choice during Gemini Deception

Theron Shan - A Republic neglected

- No potential Alliance made with Republic

- Power hungry woman I won't name because she sucks and I hate her (seriously she's cruel as f), yet still Republic killed

- Choosing to Ally with Empire instead

- Received the least support from Eternal throne when Outlander took over

- President of Balmorran Arms killed in choice during Gemini Deception

Lana Beniko - An Empire neglected

- Outlander refuses to ally with Empire

- Choosing to Ally with Republic instead

- Imperial Navy General killed in choice during Gemini Deception

One choice that was significant that I couldn't help but notice, was the inevitable choice between 3 noteworthy people of high standing, and you could only choose to save 2.

During Scorpio's betrayal... or deception. You were confronted for the first time, a choice that ALWAYS had a bad outcome.

Why wasn't this the pinnacle point, that leads to the traitor's outcome?

If you saved Republic and Empire (President of Balmorran Arms & General of Imperial Navy), you were forced to watch helplessly, as the Zakuulan's died

Regardless of your choices, realistically Zakuul got pounded so hard, it felt like the traitor had to be Zakuulan. Despite everything Koth Vortena, it upsets me that the most choices that are "remembered" for your actions, is in fact. Senya

She's been through the most and suffered more than anyone, even more so based on your choices. As cold as this might sound, the choice to kill her, kind of seems like mercy shown for all she had to endure, she had to witness her own people, Knights, cut down and turn against the Scions, Outlander killing her children, despite their warped ways, she still loves them as a mother. Countless civilizations destroyed, which were her people, those she swore to protect.

Seriously, why Theron Shan? Theron sucks!

I feel like there is so much neglected story potential here. It upsets me so much

(i have more to say on this, but im lazy, so screw you all XD)

I’m sure they picked Theron simply due to logistics.

My DS Trooper killed both Senya and Koth, so there’s no way they could be the traitor.

And I think with Lana being their original character and their favorite (where was Theron for chapters 1-9 in KoTFE?) th y chose to keep her around

I don't think Lana wasn't the traitor because she was an original character. It's much more likely, she wasn't the traitor as it made no sense.

Go through what she's gone through to get the Outlander to where they are and then betray her? She may not like every choice, but she stands by them.

I don't think Lana wasn't the traitor because she was an original character. It's much more likely, she wasn't the traitor as it made no sense.

 

Go through what she's gone through to get the Outlander to where they are and then betray her? She may not like every choice, but she stands by them.

Charles said in a discussion podcast I think, that he didn't choose Lana because she's a Sith. and settled on Theron. All I want is in-game Theron in-character saying exactly why -- of course only if his already given explanation on the train was false/lying. If it was true we already have the reasons why he betrayed the Alliance.

The reason Theron gives only works for a tyrant Commander, not a peacekeeper.

I still think he's faking or someone's hacked his implants to take at least partial control over him.

The reason Theron gives only works for a tyrant Commander, not a peacekeeper.

I still think he's faking or someone's hacked his implants to take at least partial control over him.

He is 99% faking, do not forget he is a spy and he has no reason to honestly join the Order of Zildrog, in the past he refused to join his own ancestor, Revan, on Rishi.

So, it shouldn't be a surprise at this point that Theron is not a traitor. He's a double agent. That was already proven at the end of the last flashpoint when he recorded the conversation with Creeper # 7 and allowed the Alliance to intercept it. The Alliance doesn't know...but we know. And if there is still any doubt, just take a look at the Cartel Market and the name of his new outfit.

He was chosen for this plot disaster because of his history. This totally fits his personality. If you haven't read Annihilation and The Lost Sons, please do so...because then it will make sense. It wouldn't have made sense for them to split the "traitor" between factions...because again, this is about Theron and who he is as a character.

Do I believe Lana is in on it? Absotutely...especially given the Rishi Thing. All of her mock surprise and that angry letter? Faking. It. She's trying to keep the Outlander from realizing the truth and off Theron's ***...which he/she is already starting to do, as proven in the last flashpoint. "But, but...Lana would never do that!?! She loves my Outlander!" But nothing...she's a Sith...and she'll do what she thinks she has to. Theron loves a lot of Outlanders too, and look what he did. He's doing what he thinks he has to. They're both involved...I'd put money on it.

That being said, I don't have to like what he did, and he still needs a good smack upside the head...but I get it. It also doesn't change the fact that BioWare dropped the ball majorly on what could have been an awesome story. Something like the Great Spy Caper or something where he and the Outlander orchestrate a fight and falling out for him to get in with the Order of Creepy Mask People. The way they did it leaves the Outlander with little choice...even a romanced one. Forgive him and look like a stool pigeon who clearly is only a figurehead with no real power...or don't forgive him (even if you want to) in order to keep your level of authority. Sucks.

*fixes with fanfic*

So, it shouldn't be a surprise at this point that Theron is not a traitor. He's a double agent. That was already proven at the end of the last flashpoint when he recorded the conversation with Creeper # 7 and allowed the Alliance to intercept it. The Alliance doesn't know...but we know. And if there is still any doubt, just take a look at the Cartel Market and the name of his new outfit.

 

He was chosen for this plot disaster because of his history. This totally fits his personality. If you haven't read Annihilation and The Lost Sons, please do so...because then it will make sense. It wouldn't have made sense for them to split the "traitor" between factions...because again, this is about Theron and who he is as a character.

 

Do I believe Lana is in on it? Absotutely...especially given the Rishi Thing. All of her mock surprise and that angry letter? Faking. It. She's trying to keep the Outlander from realizing the truth and off Theron's ***...which he/she is already starting to do, as proven in the last flashpoint. "But, but...Lana would never do that!?! She loves my Outlander!" But nothing...she's a Sith...and she'll do what she thinks she has to. Theron loves a lot of Outlanders too, and look what he did. He's doing what he thinks he has to. They're both involved...I'd put money on it.

 

That being said, I don't have to like what he did, and he still needs a good smack upside the head...but I get it. It also doesn't change the fact that BioWare dropped the ball majorly on what could have been an awesome story. Something like the Great Spy Caper or something where he and the Outlander orchestrate a fight and falling out for him to get in with the Order of Creepy Mask People. The way they did it leaves the Outlander with little choice...even a romanced one. Forgive him and look like a stool pigeon who clearly is only a figurehead with no real power...or don't forgive him (even if you want to) in order to keep your level of authority. Sucks.

 

*fixes with fanfic*

I had hoped for some time that both Lana and Theron were in on it and hiding it from the Outlander. My reason is very basic. The outlander should at that point walk out of the alliance and our (the players) wish for a return to Imp/Rep is realized. A way out of thw corner they wrote themselves into. That said, I don't give the BW authors that much credit.

So my hope at this point is that if this actually concludes before my subscription runs out that we're given the option to kill whomever was hiding information from the Outlander. Every one of my FEET characters, full ls or full ds, will do so. Oh and hopefully we can banish Arcann to a penal colony somewhere.

But given their track record of late, it would surprise me if I end up watching the 30 seconds of story on you tube.

And no, we're not really going to get to banish Arcann.

I had hoped for some time that both Lana and Theron were in on it and hiding it from the Outlander. My reason is very basic. The outlander should at that point walk out of the alliance and our (the players) wish for a return to Imp/Rep is realized. A way out of thw corner they wrote themselves into. That said, I don't give the BW authors that much credit.

 

So my hope at this point is that if this actually concludes before my subscription runs out that we're given the option to kill whomever was hiding information from the Outlander. Every one of my FEET characters, full ls or full ds, will do so. Oh and hopefully we can banish Arcann to a penal colony somewhere.

I don't see going back to the original factions as a possibility. Given the Iokath decision, many of us crossed factions.

BioWare *should* give us the option to kill the "traitor", however my fear is that if they do, then Theron (or Lana) would be relegated to paperweight duty, just like every other NPC who could possibly be dead (Koth, Arcann, etc etc). That would leave us with nobody, or if they only give the option for him and not Lana, would only leave us with Lana...and that wouldn't be fair either.

We also have to consider representation and love interests. Take away Theron and then the only m/m and f/m love interest who still has a voice would be gone. Take away Lana and the same thing happens to f/f and m/f characters. It would cause a whole giant steaming pile of crap to explode all over them. Both of these love interests should stay active in the story, in order to be fair. That being said, I have no idea how BioWare would be able to come around the trust issues introduced with going behind the Outlander's back like that. Like I said...they really dropped the ball on the story as a whole. Either way the pie gets sliced, I don't see us being happy with it.

I don't see going back to the original factions as a possibility. Given the Iokath decision, many of us crossed factions.

 

BioWare *should* give us the option to kill the "traitor", however my fear is that if they do, then Theron (or Lana) would be relegated to paperweight duty, just like every other NPC who could possibly be dead (Koth, Arcann, etc etc). That would leave us with nobody, or if they only give the option for him and not Lana, would only leave us with Lana...and that wouldn't be fair either.

 

We also have to consider representation and love interests. Take away Theron and then the only m/m and f/m love interest who still has a voice would be gone. Take away Lana and the same thing happens to f/f and m/f characters. It would cause a whole giant steaming pile of crap to explode all over them. Both of these love interests should stay active in the story, in order to be fair. That being said, I have no idea how BioWare would be able to come around the trust issues introduced with going behind the Outlander's back like that. Like I said...they really dropped the ball on the story as a whole. Either way the pie gets sliced, I don't see us being happy with it.

Yeah the only "consolation" in killing of Theron and having him turn into a paperwight for those that didn't is that he'd be just like all the other companions. Honestly though that's not going to work.

By the same token it's going to take some stunningly incredible writing to undo many folks feelings about killing him off. Honestly though, to me it doesn't matter. I'll be here for the end of that "story" arc unless they really flub it then I'll be gone. Too little, too late from BW to keep me in game after all these years (early beta).

We also have to consider representation and love interests. Take away Theron and then the only m/m and f/m love interest who still has a voice would be gone. Take away Lana and the same thing happens to f/f and m/f characters. It would cause a whole giant steaming pile of crap to explode all over them. Both of these love interests should stay active in the story, in order to be fair. That being said, I have no idea how BioWare would be able to come around the trust issues introduced with going behind the Outlander's back like that. Like I said...they really dropped the ball on the story as a whole. Either way the pie gets sliced, I don't see us being happy with it.

Maybe that's the reason why Arcann is going to be a romance option, a sort of consolation prize for the heartbroken widows and widowers ( characters who romanced Theron) ..

Maybe that's the reason why Arcann is going to be a romance option, a sort of consolation prize for the heartbroken widows and widowers ( characters who romanced Theron) ..

But what about those who are romancing Theron but killed Arcann? There would be no replacement romance available for them.

But what about those who are romancing Theron but killed Arcann? There would be no replacement romance available for them.

LMAO good question! :rak_01:We ( all my jedi characters included) romance the bottle! But you know, with serenity

By the same token it's going to take some stunningly incredible writing to undo many folks feelings about killing him off. Honestly though, to me it doesn't matter. I'll be here for the end of that "story" arc unless they really flub it then I'll be gone. Too little, too late from BW to keep me in game after all these years (early beta).

I think maybe the only way to do that would be if he'd been brainwashed in a similar manner to the Imperial Agent in their class story. It's possible that The Order of Zildrog may have their own mind control method. As we saw in the IA story he/she still had full control over their thoughts, feelings and emotions but they couldn't verbally relay the Republic's plans back to the Empire or actively sabotage any missions when the mind control code was activated. If they take a similar route with Theron then it can't really be held against him for not telling the Commander about his plans, particularly if they shackled him with the code when he first approached them during the research phase, preventing Theron from letting us in on his plan as he'd perhaps intended.

Come to think of it, maybe that's why he's been leaving physical clues and hints for us (leaving the bulk of the crystals behind for us, shooting the window out for Lana and the Commander to escape, allowing us to incept his holo-call etc) he's leaving us a breadcrumb trail because he can't verbally relay information back to us.

LMAO good question! :rak_01:We ( all my jedi characters included) romance the bottle! But you know, with serenity

LOL I'm all for those holy spirits!

LOL I'm all for those holy spirits!

LOL are you Khomo Fett in disguise?

LOL are you Khomo Fett in disguise?

I'll never be as cool as Khomo Fett.