BTW, I did an experience on my two MMO, just right now (I have the thursday afternoon offs)

I queued for an heroic on ''that other game'' with my Mage. I got a group in 11 minutes. Even on afternoons on week-days, my Mage is able to get into LFR (5-6 healers, 2 tanks, rest DPS) within 40 minutes usually.

On TOR, I queue for a FP on my healer, and give up after 15 minutes.

It's...worrying.

Funny story. I logged in earlier and queued for a FP. Low and behold, only a second later I had a queue pop. MAGIC.

I'm DPS. SORCERY!

Imagine there's 1 tank and 10 DPS on your server. On average you'd be waiting about 5 FPs worth of time before that tank finally gets around to your group.

However, this ratio of DPS to tank is likely consistent across all servers. If you do cross server with 5 servers, now you have 5 tanks and 50 DPS. It'd still take an average of 5 FPs before those 5 tanks finally got to your spot on the queue. Cross server would only help if for some reason there is a server where tanks are in abundance and not DPS, but this is very unlikely.

Now Cross server would help if there's only 1 DPS on your server because you could be waiting for a very long time before that second DPS ever logged on, but clearly we're not dealing with such a scenario either.

BTW, I did an experience on my two MMO, just right now (I have the thursday afternoon offs)

 

I queued for an heroic on ''that other game'' with my Mage. I got a group in 11 minutes. Even on afternoons on week-days, my Mage is able to get into LFR (5-6 healers, 2 tanks, rest DPS) within 40 minutes usually.

 

On TOR, I queue for a FP on my healer, and give up after 15 minutes.

 

It's...worrying.

So you quit too easily then?

I don't see this as worrying. 15 minutes isn't that long at all. Sounds like your role as a healer has spoiled you. Get over it.

Did not read all six pages so maybe this has been mentioned...

The only feature that will improve queue times is incentives to fill underrepresented roles. Encourage players to play tanks and healers and there will be less DPSers in the queue.

Yes, initially there will be some REALLY bad tanks and healers, but only because the players do not know the role yet. A little patience and understanding and there will be a lot more tanks and healers to go around.

BTW, I did an experience on my two MMO, just right now (I have the thursday afternoon offs)

 

I queued for an heroic on ''that other game'' with my Mage. I got a group in 11 minutes. Even on afternoons on week-days, my Mage is able to get into LFR (5-6 healers, 2 tanks, rest DPS) within 40 minutes usually.

 

On TOR, I queue for a FP on my healer, and give up after 15 minutes.

 

It's...worrying.

I had an opposite experience, repeatedly. I remember giving up waiting on a healer a few times, because I was done with all the other questing I wanted to do, was getting bored and decided I'd rather play something else. that's in that other game.

I'm guessing it depends on a server first and foremost, but... I really wouldn't want my server to merge with some of the others, if nightmare stories people post are anything to go by.

that said, people don't pug ops here through groupfinder nearly the same as they do in that other game. why? because difficulty of encounters is exactly the same, while that other game makes pugged raids facerollable.

 

that said, people don't pug ops here through groupfinder nearly the same as they do in that other game. why? because difficulty of encounters is exactly the same, while that other game makes pugged raids facerollable.

lol did you just try to say TOR raids are difficult.

I mean I haven't played that other game since the BC expansion, but from what I remember the raids were far more difficult in that game (see SSC/BT/MH)

Ops in TOR are silly easy in comparison.

It's not 0, it's just 0 that don't have you on ignore. The evidence is overwhelming here as evidenced by the testimony of other people on your server.

You're assuming that people ignore me for some odd reason. I don't even talk in FPS I just do what I need to do and leave. You also don't know what server I'm on so how do you know which people to ask?

What was with the personal attack?

Just gonna throw in my two cents here. I'm at work and half asleep so please don't destroy me. Just my opinion...

I am actually in the middle of the road here, opinion-wise. I am dps. My main is a sent and has been since launch. I love this toon, have 3 others at or above 50, but this is the toon I do endgame content with. I consider myself to be a very good dps player and know this toon backwards and forewards, inside and out. Not trying to brag, just pointing out that I know I am definitely not in the crappy dps category. My method of dealing with long waits: I don't wait. I realize there are lots of other dps' out there and considering all the other content available, I don't really "need" to run the hm 55's. Hell, I had 3 black market armor pieces (i think thats what you buy with elite comms) by the time I ran my first hm 55. So what do i do if i get the inkling to run a hm 55? I give it 30 minutes tops. No queue: I free up room for another dps by dropping queue. I have gotten this far with not a lot of time, either, as I'm not one of those that spend every waking moment playing; I have a full time job and rarely get to spend even a couple of hours if at all on any given evening. HM fp's can be fun to run and they can have decent drops, but the time-cost:benefit ratio just isn't there as far as I'm concerned.

Regardless of my gear and my ability as a dps, I'm still somewhat squishy against a hm 55 boss, especially compared to an appropriately geared tank and it is incredibly infuriating when I encounter a situation like finishing a group of adds and the other dps is lying dead with the dealer forced to dps for dear life. By that I mean the other dps isn't doing their job because they don't know what they are doing or they are undergeared. In fact, no one likes it when any roll isnt doing their job. The other night I was in a pug on the Toborro weekly, and after the group wiped several times, one of the other dps' said to the main tank "I feel like I keep getting the Cleave. Are you keeping him turned around?" To which the main tank responded "How do I turn?" Yeah, that happened.

As much as I used to get annoyed when I would get asked if I was geared when asking to join someone who was LFG, feeling like it was a personal affront, I now realize why it keeps getting asked. Personally, I've simply always known not to try to run stuff I wasn't geared for, and also pride myself on only ever needing to be given instruction once on a new fight. I think the kick function is a useful tool if not abused, and the community in general needs to come to terms with and accept the value of this tool. New players need to understand that if they aren't totally confident that they are ready -- at least gear-wise -- for an op or fp, there is a pretty good chance they will be kicked, and a pretty good chance they'll end up on at least 3 other players' ignore list.

So here's a suggestion: heals and tanks, if getting into a fp is so quick and easy, you need to be either dropping and re-queuing if you are in the minority of well-geared players in a pug or kicking if someone isn't geared (after politely explaining their mistake). We were all new at this at one point, and for some people, this is their very first MMO and very first foray into MMO group dynamics and roles. We, the more experienced, have to be the teachers. You get an undergeared newb: politely explain the problem and first ask them to drop and then kick them if they don't. If you, the appropriately-geared, are in the minority: drop and re-queue. I realize there are lockouts but, so be it. So you wait all of 10 minutes. Maybe you'll start to know what it means to wait to get into a group. Regardless, there is an ever-widening gap between the leets/generally-well-experienced and the newer players and it isn't helping anyone. The trend has moved towards the latter never, ever getting to run endgame content as it has turned into a vicious cycle of leets playing with leets and newbs not playing at all. Why, pray, has that become so acceptable?

Sorry for the wall of text but I have one last point: 4-man queueing should not be allowed with group finder, or at a minimum 4-man queuing should disqualified from the daily reward. You are simply exploiting a reward meant for pugs, plain and simple. You got a guild that can do runs? Great. Group finder is meant for pugs and its rewards meant for those that can -- rare as it may be -- successfully complete an op or flashpoint as a pug. If you want to take advantage of the group finder rewards, you should always be taking on at least one pickup. Hell, as a 3-man you have instant kick ability, and are benefitting the server as a whole by helping the newbs either learn the fights or understand why/how they are ill-equipped and get asked to drop or get kicked.

You many now proceed with annihilating me for having an opinion that may differ from your own.

Only way to improve problem is increase number of tanks/heals or give the current tanks/heals an incentive to queue more than once a day (and not just with guild). I would like to see a counter or something. Like I queue -- "there are currently 2000 DPS, 100 Heal, and 5 Tank in queue". Then I know to leave queue and WZ or Daily/Heroics or something.

Xserver would only help a heal or tank go from 5-10 minutes wait to instant.

lol did you just try to say TOR raids are difficult.

 

I mean I haven't played that other game since the BC expansion, but from what I remember the raids were far more difficult in that game (see SSC/BT/MH)

 

Ops in TOR are silly easy in comparison.

no, dear person with reading comprehension fail. what I said was that difficulty of random pugged raids in that other game is specifically and significantly scaled down to be completely face rollable. not to mention - raids are not nearly the same as they used to be back in BC days, as normal difficulty was made a lot more accessible, with actual challenge being hidden behind heroic difficulty and meta achievements. you really shouldn't speak unless you know what you are talking about.

how difficult ops are is up to debate, but I've yet to run one where you can completely ignore mechanics and still win on ANY difficulty. which is 90% of the time the case with raid finder version of raids in that other game. of course, the gear you get from that version is also lower quality, so it all adds up.

but the fact remains is that its a lot harder to PUG SUCCESSFULLY through random generator in TOR, vs that other game. so as a result, you have fewer people queueing.

Sorry for the wall of text but I have one last point: 4-man queueing should not be allowed with group finder, or at a minimum 4-man queuing should disqualified from the daily reward. You are simply exploiting a reward meant for pugs, plain and simple. You got a guild that can do runs? Great. Group finder is meant for pugs and its rewards meant for those that can -- rare as it may be -- successfully complete an op or flashpoint as a pug. If you want to take advantage of the group finder rewards, you should always be taking on at least one pickup. Hell, as a 3-man you have instant kick ability, and are benefitting the server as a whole by helping the newbs either learn the fights or understand why/how they are ill-equipped and get asked to drop or get kicked.

 

You many now proceed with annihilating me for having an opinion that may differ from your own.

eh? my understanding is - reward was for letting group finder chose a flashpoint for you at random, not for getting a random group? because you know, some people don't like specific flashpoints and might deselect them and even if they are still queueing solo and getting a pugged group, they don't get a completion reward.

there's no inherent virtue of running with random pugs vs running with friends. and I say that as someone who pugs 90% of the time.

The only boss you've no chance of beating while undergeared is the bonus boss in Hammer Station. Mechanics wise the only 'impossible' case is if you have 3 SWs for Cademimu as tank + 2 DPS as you'll often end up with all 3 shackled with no easy way to break all 3 shackles. Of course this doesn't stop people from giving up or kicking guys but that's human nature.

Still not impossible. Though it might take some coordination of CC breaks if all get shackled each time. I've run this several times with 3 Sith Warriors and never had serious issues.

eh? my understanding is - reward was for letting group finder chose a flashpoint for you at random, not for getting a random group? because you know, some people don't like specific flashpoints and might deselect them and even if they are still queueing solo and getting a pugged group, they don't get a completion reward.

 

there's no inherent virtue of running with random pugs vs running with friends. and I say that as someone who pugs 90% of the time.

I exclusively run pugs, and I feel that the inherent virtue is in helping other players and meeting new people. Conversely, what is the inherent virtue of having the game choose a random fp? If you already have a group, just go pickup whatever fp you want and run it. What does making it random buy you? To me, the group finder feels like it was made for pugs, ergo the name "group finder", not "flashpoint finder". Not trying to give you a hard time, just my perspective. I just always got that feeling from previous discussions by devs that the group finder was intended to be used as a tool for those that needed a group in order to run endgame content. I was happy when I originally heard about it because i thought, "great! I can get into a group and actually meet new people, possibly even find new friends that I can run with again!" I actually like meeting new people. I, unlike so many i seems, actually don't mind wiping a few times while a new player gets his bearings: I'll have potentially made a new friend that will be that much better at their role in future runs. As I said, I too get annoyed with undergeared pelple who don't even *try* to read up and come prepared to fill their role. But I digress. Group finder should incentivize taking on new players helping people better themselves in their roles. Kicking/asking to leave is ok as long as the person understands why. But running group finder for the daily without actually using the group finder to *gasp* find a group is exploit imo, or at the very least abuse.

I just got my third FP as a healer (instant queue this time) and frankly, I think people are exagerrating a bit.

I died once from tunnel vision on trash, and once on final boss because I missed on myself the debuff.

Those instances are not as bad as people claim.

no, dear person with reading comprehension fail. what I said was that difficulty of random pugged raids in that other game is specifically and significantly scaled down to be completely face rollable. not to mention - raids are not nearly the same as they used to be back in BC days, as normal difficulty was made a lot more accessible, with actual challenge being hidden behind heroic difficulty and meta achievements. you really shouldn't speak unless you know what you are talking about.

 

u mad bro?

God know about how I complain about this game, but PUGs are not as bad as people says.

I was able to heal three pugs directly after hitting 55, without any big issue.

Ok, I am going to post what I feel would be ways to help this problem.

LFG changes

- List of players qued with desired flashpoint/s listed and role.

- Allow you to choose primary and secondary role and ask if you want that role with a popup if it can make a group. Refusing the secondary role does not remove you from the que.

- Ability to "que ignore" players to avoid being placed in groups with them.

Skill Trees

- Have all skill trees and abilities in those trees refocused to three specific roles...tank, healer, dps.

- Allow players to store a second build and switch if desired on the fly with a cooldown.

- Give certain classes "best as" 10 percent boost ability in flashpoints and operations

Trooper/BH - Best as tanks, get bonus to damage mitigation and agro if a tank

Knight/Warrior - Best as dps, bonus to energy regeneration and damage output if dps

and

Smugglers/Agents - Best as CC dps Hybrid, bonus to tech and cc duration if dps

Consular/Sorcerors - Best as healers, bonus to health regeneration and healing if healer

So for each class any roll is viable, but the best roles for each class are rewarded, and they have the best performance overall and ESPECIALLY in flashpoints and operations in those classes.

Solo Bolster mode for Flashpoints/Sidekick mode

- Allow players to bolster themselves,similar to the PVP bolster, to run Flashpoints with only their companion after being qued but not picked up for 30 minutes. Maximum bolster brackets would be allowed to prevent players from running flashpoints far above their current level.

- Allow players to "sidekick" themselves, allowing the game to reduce their level (and disable abilities) so they can run lower flashpoints with other players if desired and still get decent rewards.

I feel all three changes would solve the lion's share of problems with the current que system.

I exclusively run pugs, and I feel that the inherent virtue is in helping other players and meeting new people. Conversely, what is the inherent virtue of having the game choose a random fp? If you already have a group, just go pickup whatever fp you want and run it. What does making it random buy you? To me, the group finder feels like it was made for pugs, ergo the name "group finder", not "flashpoint finder". Not trying to give you a hard time, just my perspective. I just always got that feeling from previous discussions by devs that the group finder was intended to be used as a tool for those that needed a group in order to run endgame content. I was happy when I originally heard about it because i thought, "great! I can get into a group and actually meet new people, possibly even find new friends that I can run with again!" I actually like meeting new people. I, unlike so many i seems, actually don't mind wiping a few times while a new player gets his bearings: I'll have potentially made a new friend that will be that much better at their role in future runs. As I said, I too get annoyed with undergeared pelple who don't even *try* to read up and come prepared to fill their role. But I digress. Group finder should incentivize taking on new players helping people better themselves in their roles. Kicking/asking to leave is ok as long as the person understands why. But running group finder for the daily without actually using the group finder to *gasp* find a group is exploit imo, or at the very least abuse.

well I guess its nice that it makes you feel good about yourself and all, but personally I don't pug to "help other people" I pug because I don't always have friends to run with at the time when I feel like running something. I'm nice to people in pugs because I'm a decent human being and because I treat people the way I want to be treated, not because its some how virtuous or needed or whatever else. and unlike you, I actually don't expect people to have read up on the content beforehand. pretty much all of the pugged content can be explain before you make a pull. I've had encounters explained to me, heck, I had no idea about shackles in HM candemimu until we got to the last boss.

I've ran with multiple people for whom something was a first flashpoint. I've ran with people wearing blue and green quest gear. I've ran with people who didn't completely understand the difference in spec and didn't understand how to gear and what stats they needed. i didn't join group finder to help them, but I helped them because they were open to be helped (not everyone wants help you know) the kick function has a window where you put in the reason for a kick. most people that I've ran with still say something in chat before they start the kicking. one exception being disconnect, that lasts longer than 5 minutes. I've made friends in pugs. I've gotten guild invites through pugs. but I never saw them as charity

and it might be your opinion, but its not an exploit. because the dungeon IS still random. and the intent of the group finder wasn't just to help pugs, it was to help everyone who runs flashpoints including friends. and its working as intended. you blocking people from having all 4 friends queue to get their daily is not going to get more people to pug. it might actually get less of them, because some people will never pug, no matter what, and other people might stop pugging in disgust at the system suddenly penalizing people for "gasp" having made friends and wanting to run with those friends.

Ok, I am going to post what I feel would be ways to help this problem.

 

LFG changes

 

- List of players qued with desired flashpoint/s listed and role.

- Allow you to choose primary and secondary role and ask if you want that role with a popup if it can make a group. Refusing the secondary role does not remove you from the que.

- Ability to "que ignore" players to avoid being placed in groups with them.

 

Skill Trees

 

- Have all skill trees and abilities in those trees refocused to three specific roles...tank, healer, dps.

- Allow players to store a second build and switch if desired on the fly with a cooldown.

- Give certain classes "best as" 10 percent boost ability in flashpoints and operations

 

Trooper/BH - Best as tanks, get bonus to damage mitigation and agro if a tank

Knight/Warrior - Best as dps, bonus to energy regeneration and damage output if dps

and

Smugglers/Agents - Best as CC dps Hybrid, bonus to tech and cc duration if dps

Consular/Sorcerors - Best as healers, bonus to health regeneration and healing if healer

 

So for each class any roll is viable, but the best roles for each class are rewarded, and they have the best performance overall and ESPECIALLY in flashpoints and operations in those classes.

 

Solo Bolster mode for Flashpoints/Sidekick mode

 

- Allow players to bolster themselves,similar to the PVP bolster, to run Flashpoints with only their companion after being qued but not picked up for 30 minutes. Maximum bolster brackets would be allowed to prevent players from running flashpoints far above their current level.

- Allow players to "sidekick" themselves, allowing the game to reduce their level (and disable abilities) so they can run lower flashpoints with other players if desired and still get decent rewards.

 

I feel all three changes would solve the lion's share of problems with the current que system.

onto your suggestions 1 - sounds like a system from DDo, where you manually invited people to a group, not saying it shouldn't be there, but that's the system the game originally started and it didn't seem to work out too well, that's why they started a random grouping tool

2. if you are going to refuse a role, what is the point of selecting it in a first place? no, I think current system of being able to select more then one role and being kicked if refusing to join - is fine.

3. is already part of the system. people on your ignore list will not be placed into random group with you.

skills and abilities in talent trees are already focused on their specific roles and each tree actually has the role stated in a description.

allowing people to store build would be great, and I'm fairly sure they are working on it, in a meantime - field respec is there to fill the gap. not as quick, but at the same time, a lot more flexible then being limited to a single extra build

no, just no. smacks too much of "forcing people to play as a particular spec" instead of current system where you can spec to preference and not be penalized for it.

and that brings us to your list.

Trooper/Bh - - I'm so sorry people who liked to play mercenaries/commandos. even if you chose to heal, you are still not so subtly told that you chose the wrong role to play.

screw you warriors/knights who may have wanted to tank with that particular playstyle - you don't get a tanking bonus, you get looked down on.

agents/smugglers, you wanted to heal? poor dears, dps for joo!

did you want to tank as shadow/assassin, or dps as one? did you want to sling lightning or dots? nope. sorcerers are for heals and if you spec anything else - bad player.

above is probably not the way you intended but this is the way most of the community see it as. multiple MMO's that came before this one illustrate it all too well. you do not buff a particular role of particular class over other options for that class. you do not give it extra advantage. because when you do - people see it as THE only role you should be playing and all the other options are for "bads." the only people who may be ok with you running a less optimal role? are friends. pugs will not stand for it.

onto your suggestions 1 - sounds like a system from DDo, where you manually invited people to a group, not saying it shouldn't be there, but that's the system the game originally started and it didn't seem to work out too well, that's why they started a random grouping tool

2. if you are going to refuse a role, what is the point of selecting it in a first place? no, I think current system of being able to select more then one role and being kicked if refusing to join - is fine.

3. is already part of the system. people on your ignore list will not be placed into random group with you.

 

skills and abilities in talent trees are already focused on their specific roles and each tree actually has the role stated in a description.

allowing people to store build would be great, and I'm fairly sure they are working on it, in a meantime - field respec is there to fill the gap. not as quick, but at the same time, a lot more flexible then being limited to a single extra build

no, just no. smacks too much of "forcing people to play as a particular spec" instead of current system where you can spec to preference and not be penalized for it.

 

and that brings us to your list.

 

Trooper/Bh - - I'm so sorry people who liked to play mercenaries/commandos. even if you chose to heal, you are still not so subtly told that you chose the wrong role to play.

screw you warriors/knights who may have wanted to tank with that particular playstyle - you don't get a tanking bonus, you get looked down on.

agents/smugglers, you wanted to heal? poor dears, dps for joo!

did you want to tank as shadow/assassin, or dps as one? did you want to sling lightning or dots? nope. sorcerers are for heals and if you spec anything else - bad player.

 

above is probably not the way you intended but this is the way most of the community see it as. multiple MMO's that came before this one illustrate it all too well. you do not buff a particular role of particular class over other options for that class. you do not give it extra advantage. because when you do - people see it as THE only role you should be playing and all the other options are for "bads." the only people who may be ok with you running a less optimal role? are friends. pugs will not stand for it.

Which are probably the reasons why we have such long ques. I personally think holding on to these kind of old prejudices is what gives us the long ques in the first place.

The roles are not clearly defined at all. They are muddled at best. And right now players are already considered "bad" if they go DPS on anything and ignored in groups. If DPS received a boost to damage they would then be desirable. The current system does not come close to working in my opinion and having a list so you can see what people are queing for, refining the roles for each class with clear concise ability trees and offering bonuses to those that choose certain roles for certain classes would alleviate this problem IMO.

Just my opinion naturally.

Which are probably the reasons why we have such long ques. I personally think holding on to these kind of old prejudices is what gives us the long ques in the first place.

 

The roles are not clearly defined at all. They are muddled at best. And right now players are already considered "bad" if they go DPS on anything and ignored in groups. If DPS received a boost to damage they would then be desirable. The current system does not come close to working in my opinion and having a list so you can see what people are queing for, refining the roles for each class with clear concise ability trees and offering bonuses to those that choose certain roles for certain classes would alleviate this problem IMO.

 

Just my opinion naturally.

1. what old prejudices. again, explain to me, what is the point of selecting 2 roles if you are just going to refuse one of them?

2 not clearly defined? how much clearer than "healing" "damage" "tanking" can you get? Skill Tree

if dps received a boost to damage they would be just as desirable as they are right now. however, giving a boost only to one role for a class that can play 2 or 3? serves as something that forces them into playing that role, because the rest are automatically not as viable. its been done. THAT was the old way of doing things, making only one role viable for group content, and we moved away from that, thank the maker. its NOT fun to be told that you chose the wrong advanced class to play. its not fun to be told that you have to respec, or be kicked (and it WOULD happen, mark my word) you look at it as a bonus. but your average player will look at it as a penalty to all the other specs that don't get the 10% buff.

having a list of what all people are queuing for is pointless in an automated system. it was barely workable even before, because I remember putting myself into looking for group section. I've found no groups that way, only through planetary/fleet chat. now if they could somehow integrate both systems and have them work together instead of against each other... maybe... but to be honest, I'm not seeing it again. because if you are looking for specific names, you probably already have those people on your friend's list, so you could just ask them directly, and if you are not looking for specific character names, might as well just let the system do the job for you.

and the thing is... giving extra rewards for tanking or healing will not result in significantly more tanks or healers. why? because majority of people don't like playing those roles.

so the solution would be either to attempt to make those roles somehow more fun (the game that shall not be named, tried going that route by creating a healing class that could potentially heal mainly through dealing damage... and then they ended up nerfing the heck out of it, which made me very sad) or increase group sizes to allow for more dps.

to be honest, second solution IMO is far more realistic, than trying to pigeonhole people into roles they may or may not want to be playing.

Before I comment, I wanted to make a few things clear.

First, my opinion means next to nothing. Second, you could certainly be completely correct and I may be completely off base. Third one could perhaps argue that nothing is wrong with the current system and it should remain as it is.

That said...

1. what old prejudices. again, explain to me, what is the point of selecting 2 roles if you are just going to refuse one of them?

Because it would make it easier for the group finder to form a group. As would a change on the fly respec as a player can visually see who is qued and for what and change his spec accordingly. You might be surprised how willing a player would be to accept that secondary role after being in the que for 30 minutes.

2 not clearly defined? how much clearer than "healing" "damage" "tanking" can you get? Skill Tree

Well, you have made it clear that you feel it is clear, and others have certainly made it clear they do not. Either opinion is viable IMO. I will not debate this with you since your opinion in this matter could very well be accurate. However, I would remind you that many games have refined the skill trees for the very same reasons I have offered in the past, and it is possible it could happen here. I personally think it is too muddled, but that's me.

if dps received a boost to damage they would be just as desirable as they are right now.

I disagree and history in the market has proven otherwise. When there were problems in the past with other games in the market (like WoW for instance) and DPS was improved for a particular class that class became far more desirable for raid content. It's just my opinion naturally, but one could argue the same thing could and should happen here.

however, giving a boost only to one role for a class that can play 2 or 3? serves as something that forces them into playing that role, because the rest are automatically not as viable. its been done. THAT was the old way of doing things, making only one role viable for group content, and we moved away from that, thank the maker. its NOT fun to be told that you chose the wrong advanced class to play. its not fun to be told that you have to respec, or be kicked (and it WOULD happen, mark my word) you look at it as a bonus. but your average player will look at it as a penalty to all the other specs that don't get the 10% buff.

A quick look at the discussion in the multiple threads on the matter, as well as running flashpoints in the game demonstrate that that happens now. People are told "if you dont like the ques respec to a healer or tank" or "respec is simple, no excuse to que as dps and then complain about it". People are kicked right now for being DPS and joining up in a PUG. Fun or not it is reality. Old way or not (debatable IMO) what is in place now is not working IMO.

having a list of what all people are queuing for is pointless in an automated system. it was barely workable even before, because I remember putting myself into looking for group section. I've found no groups that way, only through planetary/fleet chat. now if they could somehow integrate both systems and have them work together instead of against each other... maybe... but to be honest, I'm not seeing it again. because if you are looking for specific names, you probably already have those people on your friend's list, so you could just ask them directly, and if you are not looking for specific character names, might as well just let the system do the job for you.

It provides information for a player to consider switching to an alternate build since that build is in demand at the moment. That is hardly pointless IMO. As far as the que ignore I agree that is not necessary if the current system works well enough with the general ignore. There have been complaints on the board, however, that it does not in fact work. I just assumed they were honest complaints.

and the thing is... giving extra rewards for tanking or healing will not result in significantly more tanks or healers. why? because majority of people don't like playing those roles.

An easy respec combined with the bonuses could make those choices more enticing. Most games, IMO, that have implemented similar respec or dual spec systems have seen increases in tank or healing use. Again, I just think that history demonstrates something different from what you portend.

Does that mean your wrong? No, not at all. I appreciate your counters to each point and must make it clear that I could be completely off base. It's just my opinion, and I want to be clear why I have it just as you have.

so the solution would be either to attempt to make those roles somehow more fun (the game that shall not be named, tried going that route by creating a healing class that could potentially heal mainly through dealing damage... and then they ended up nerfing the heck out of it, which made me very sad) or increase group sizes to allow for more dps.

 

to be honest, second solution IMO is far more realistic, than trying to pigeonhole people into roles they may or may not want to be playing.

Well, realistic is arguable IMO, as that has been stated many times for many desired changes that ended up happening anyway. That said, your idea certainly has merit, as do many others. Especially if there was some way to make the role more fun.

I think, at the very least we can agree a dual spec option would help.