I really can't say it any better than the title. I don't understand how the development team allows such broken mechanics to remain live in the current PvP realm. It's been TWO weeks since this terrible patch went live, and when I say terrible, this encompasses all aspects of gameplay that were broken upon release. Sure the new Ops seems to be great, but when you break more content than what you send live, it's considered terrible in the professional sense of development.

 

PvP has reached an all-time low in this game, coupled with head scratching changes, you have literally surpassed the failure of 1.2's patch for PvP. The team has shown an unwillingness to sit down and digest what this gameplay feature needs, to communicate with the players in the PvP section and ask questions, and gives off just an overall feel of abandonment and neglect. I understand all aspects of gameplay deserve solid upates, attention and communication, but I feel out of all the issues abroad, the PvP base has gotten the shaft for too long.

 

While some don't think it's "a representation of committment", I honestly feel that a lot of this disconnect rests squarely on the shoulders of Gabe Amatangelo, Principal Lead PvP designer. Since 1.2 (which is notorious for the serious debacles in PvP changes and lying about Ranked PvP and pulling it hours before release) hundreds of thousands of players unsubbed, and he hasn't once come to the forums and spoken with it's player base since February 2nd. Yes, I'd rather have my developers working on developing, but give me a break. Lead designers have (in games past and present) shown themselves to make an effort with communication, polls and just general discussion on gameplay. This guy hasn't even logged in since May 6th. Thanks Gabe & Mythic.

 

And that goes for anyone on the PvP development staff. Allison relays information when fed from someone else on the team, but never follows up on the many questions afterwards. It shouldn't be her job to be the "go between" from the PvP base and PvP development, but if that's going to be the way it is, then at least pretend to follow up more often. Perhaps this is the same for other gameplay features as well, but I can only speak on behalf of the PvP base. It's just atrocious, and very indicative of your current game status, which we all know isn't great and continuing to spiral downwards. It's sad to see, because I (like many others) want this game to succeed or at least be worth the monthly subscription.

 

Communication aside, the development for whatever reason has gone downhill as well. We all know the horror stories with 1.4, and the amount of facepalms in many areas of gameplay. No matter how small PvP is to TOR, or what others perceive it to be on the list of priorities, if you offer said gameplay you should maintain said gameplay to the highest standard like any other gameplay feature. PvP has been kicked to the side, with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of players leaving in dismay. Like other games, notably SWG, I gave it years to straighten itself out. Eventually it did, and I was glad I stuck it out. And trust me, I hate using that game for any referrence to TOR, but my point is I will not be waiting years until this team figures it out. Honestly, I just don't think the current team cares enough about this feature, which is evident by allowing a serious game-breaking issue (bugged WZ's) go this long with no fix, even a band-aid fix.

 

No matter what others think, PvP is supposed to be in this game, PvP had a HUGE player base that made this game thrive even further than expected. We were told to expect an epic level of PvP development, with the "best team" around. And honestly, a long time ago, it was pretty solid with only minor issues worth complaining about. Now it's a joke, and I don't see any effort on this games behalf to work through it, nor any communication (or just lies to make the player base feel better) to even justify playing anymore. I have 7 days or so left, and not even my nerdiness for Star Wars can keep me from unsubbing. Been around since early Beta, never let my sub run out (despite some threats here and there), bought the epic CE within the first minutes of release...but now...I give up. I can't justify my stay when your PvP team can't justify their committment. Best of luck to those hanging about, I do hope it gets better for those staying onboard. But the tl;dr version is, the PvP aspect deserves better.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Apaolo

Well said...

 

and reluctantly... signed.

 

I hate to agree but the potential of PvP is going to waste.

Sorry, the reality is that it will never get fixed..............at least not to the satisfaction of players. I try not to involk WoW but I'll do so here because I played that game for 7 years and do you know what the most common subject was in their forums? You guessed it, PvP gameplay and balance. It's still the most common thread over there to this day.

 

I'm not sure exactly why but PvP'ers tend to be more passionate about their dissatisfactions than PvE'ers and just in shear numbers there's just no way any game company, Blizzard, Bioware etc. are going to be able to satisfy them all. It really is the old saying 'You can please some of the people all the time................'

 

So that's why I'm saying it will never truly be 'fixed' to the satisfaction of the playerbase.

Sucks they moved this out of the general forum but I guess that means they know about it and will get swept under the rug. I agree everything you have said. The majority of things that have been changed or adjusted cause more harm than good and are mainly unwanted. I know its hard to make any decision and not have someone upset but with the last two patches my faith in this game has reached an all time low.

 

This game had incredible potential and they stated they themselves had no idea how popular it was going to be. You think with a statement like that they would want more involvement in the PvP aspects of this game but each patch it becomes clear that they are moving away from PvP more and putting it aside in order to create a F2P model and enhance PvE (I know its a PvE game but still we are paying just as much as they are).

 

I shall miss you on the forums sir and the only thing keeping me around is I enjoy the people I still play with and when they want to stop playing ill stop.

Well said.

 

I will be around a while longer as I do like leveling alts; but outside of that, it surprises me that they would not see to better quality in PvP. PvP content, especially open world PvP content; pretty much is self sustaining content for those who wish to participate, as it is different every time. War Zones need to be added, but the open world factor, if done right would be fresh just from the randomness.

 

Wouldn't fix everything as there is still some balancing and mechanical issues as well, but the neglect of all of it boggles my mind.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Technohic

Totally agree with everything you said, Pistols. I'll be leaving from this game soon also. My sub runs out on the 22nd. I wasn't an avid PvPer until i came to SWTOR. After seeing how the PvPers have been getting the shaft in this game, I now understand why you and so many others were always frustrated on the SWG forums. I decided a while back that I wasn't going to give another game the same years of hope to fix itself like I did SWG. Take it easy, bro. Hopefully someone with some sense will come up with a decent MMO one day. I doubt it, but the genre can't stay terrible forever, can it?

Patches O'Houlhan!!!

 

YOU GOTTA GET ANGRY!!!

While some don't think it's "a representation of committment", I honestly feel that a lot of this disconnect rests squarely on the shoulders of Gabe Amatangelo, Principal Lead PvP designer.

 

I watch and read interviews with Gabe and I always walk away with the estimation that he understands the PvP shortfalls of this game and what it needs. I really get a sense that he has his finger on the pulse of what the PvP community needs and wants.

 

For a short time, PvP was actually getting better from EA to 1.1.5. My confidence in BW, which was utterly shattered with the Ilum Valor Patch, was slowly being restored. Then 1.2 hit and PvP in this game went sideways again and hasn't recovered, slowly spiraling downward to 1.4 which is by far the worst Patch to date. It seems the best PvP days of SWTOR are behind it. 1.1.5 apparently was the golden period for PvP in this game.

 

And it seems to me that Gabe, although he appears to have a firm understanding of the state of PvP in this game, is just juggling too much stuff to give PvP the attention it deserves (he is also in charge of endgame PvE Ops and FPS). PvP really needs its own dedicated Lead Dev. It's just not a part-time job. The project management and quality control from a PvP standpoint have been an utter disaster in this game.

 

I wish you the best of luck Pistols. Your Forum contributions were always an entertaining read. It's a shame we are losing another good player and Star Wars fan because EA/BW keeps failing so badly.

It's all about the money. These dudes are waiting on a severance package.

Big'Ol Bummer...But I agree totally.

 

I actually un subbed once before when they announced sever tranfer targets were over a month out and RMP was completely dead...Most of the PvP community had left due to Nerfs etc...Nothing to do so I hit the button.

 

Came back once transfers opened up....As I wanted to play the game, just couldnt until the transfer.

 

BW is definately sending a message in my opinion...You go to general and you'll See Allison B. Responding to many threads fairly regularly....PvP forums not so much.

 

Merc/Commando have been requesting Dev response on their AC design for months regarding PvP aspects...Not one single response......

 

If you ask a question about the new Operation you'll have an answer ASAP....You put the letters PvP together and your guarentee'd to never hear a word.

 

Honestly I dont think they have the resources and/or ability to do much of anything for PvP or we would be see'ing word of future plans atleast...Just to shut us up. Not a word about it doesnt really fair well...I think they are fine with leaving it as is... The BW team is apperently comfortable with losing a large portion of the PvP community...even more then they have already lost (Which is substantial!).

Edited October 11, 2012 by Soljin

I watch and read interviews with Gabe and I always walk away with the estimation that he understands the PvP shortfalls of this game and what it needs. I really get a sense that he has his finger on the pulse of what the PvP community needs and wants.

 

This part is true... whenever I see or read an interview I feel like this guy knows what we want and what he's talking about.

 

And then I'm let down...

 

It's kind of like an abusive relationship he has with the PvP community. Tells us what we want to hear and then BAM! Slaps us in the face.

^ <3 Alpha

 

But...aside from the broken backfill (which admittedly is very bad), what exactly is "more broken" in patch 1.4? Edit - I guess you could say resolve is "more broken"...and I suppose that would be true too in some ways.

 

You either like the PvP and combat in this game or you don't. None of that was broken in 1.4 by my estimation.

 

There are things people want that don't exist - x-server, arena, etc. But none of that was broken in 1.4, as it never existed.

 

People seem to be coming back to TOR not leaving it...from GW2 (which seems to have been a one month game for many people) and other places.

 

No?

Edited October 11, 2012 by Jaiyne

I really can't say it any better than the title. I don't understand how the development team allows such broken mechanics to remain live in the current PvP realm. It's been TWO weeks since this terrible patch went live, and when I say terrible, this encompasses all aspects of gameplay that were broken upon release. Sure the new Ops seems to be great, but when you break more content than what you send live, it's considered terrible in the professional sense of development.

 

PvP has reached an all-time low in this game, coupled with head scratching changes, you have literally surpassed the failure of 1.2's patch for PvP. The team has shown an unwillingness to sit down and digest what this gameplay feature needs, to communicate with the players in the PvP section and ask questions, and gives off just an overall feel of abandonment and neglect. I understand all aspects of gameplay deserve solid upates, attention and communication, but I feel out of all the issues abroad, the PvP base has gotten the shaft for too long.

 

While some don't think it's "a representation of committment", I honestly feel that a lot of this disconnect rests squarely on the shoulders of Gabe Amatangelo, Principal Lead PvP designer. Since 1.2 (which is notorious for the serious debacles in PvP changes and lying about Ranked PvP and pulling it hours before release) hundreds of thousands of players unsubbed, and he hasn't once come to the forums and spoken with it's player base since February 2nd. Yes, I'd rather have my developers working on developing, but give me a break. Lead designers have (in games past and present) shown themselves to make an effort with communication, polls and just general discussion on gameplay. This guy hasn't even logged in since May 6th. Thanks Gabe & Mythic.

 

And that goes for anyone on the PvP development staff. Allison relays information when fed from someone else on the team, but never follows up on the many questions afterwards. It shouldn't be her job to be the "go between" from the PvP base and PvP development, but if that's going to be the way it is, then at least pretend to follow up more often. Perhaps this is the same for other gameplay features as well, but I can only speak on behalf of the PvP base. It's just atrocious, and very indicative of your current game status, which we all know isn't great and continuing to spiral downwards. It's sad to see, because I (like many others) want this game to succeed or at least be worth the monthly subscription.

 

Communication aside, the development for whatever reason has gone downhill as well. We all know the horror stories with 1.4, and the amount of facepalms in many areas of gameplay. No matter how small PvP is to TOR, or what others perceive it to be on the list of priorities, if you offer said gameplay you should maintain said gameplay to the highest standard like any other gameplay feature. PvP has been kicked to the side, with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of players leaving in dismay. Like other games, notably SWG, I gave it years to straighten itself out. Eventually it did, and I was glad I stuck it out. And trust me, I hate using that game for any referrence to TOR, but my point is I will not be waiting years until this team figures it out. Honestly, I just don't think the current team cares enough about this feature, which is evident by allowing a serious game-breaking issue (bugged WZ's) go this long with no fix, even a band-aid fix.

 

No matter what others think, PvP is supposed to be in this game, PvP had a HUGE player base that made this game thrive even further than expected. We were told to expect an epic level of PvP development, with the "best team" around. And honestly, a long time ago, it was pretty solid with only minor issues worth complaining about. Now it's a joke, and I don't see any effort on this games behalf to work through it, nor any communication (or just lies to make the player base feel better) to even justify playing anymore. I have 7 days or so left, and not even my nerdiness for Star Wars can keep me from unsubbing. Been around since early Beta, never let my sub run out (despite some threats here and there), bought the epic CE within the first minutes of release...but now...I give up. I can't justify my stay when your PvP team can't justify their committment. Best of luck to those hanging about, I do hope it gets better for those staying onboard. But the tl;dr version is, the PvP aspect deserves better.

 

The bottomline was they missed simple fixes to things like World PVP to at least buy time.

 

For instance Ilum had 1 map point that contained the armaments you needed. It made control over center screwed up because it created lag and zergfests the engine couldn't deal with. Now that they have consolidated servers Illum and those 2 daily and weekly quests could be added back into the game. Then add some spawning armaments to the other Ilum bases and you have a fun world based pvp environment. At least till your development could get around to more serious attention. Then give the pvp return buff back.

 

Then you have warzones and the tuning they've done to some is dramatically better. Voidstar and Alderaan are much better with the fixes.

 

However, we gotten 1 new map since release. Many of us (I have really grown to like Huttball) would like another huttball arena. You cannot tell me its that hard to design a map. You've got plenty of planets with ungodly amounts of map space. Even if its the same objectives give us something. Its pretty tiring playing the same maps. No different then PvE'ers demands for more dungeons. The difference is we really don't need layers. They need a whole complex series of development work and voice over acting. We need a map with objectives placed on them.

 

if you need a good example of a map to pull for warzones I have a suggestion. Pick Bugtown. Make it king of the mountain.

 

Balance and playability issues aside the pvp could be improved simply by giving us more content. I'd also like to see a lot more armor sets. I don't understand how 4 body types and the very limited character creation is yielding so many problems getting more art out to us. The stuff you do release looks bad when it hits. How you've managed this feat is pretty impressive.

 

Cannot do hoods with masks? Clipping? Sabers that don't turn off. Just a bunch of really odd ball things that are not polished.

But...aside from the broken backfill (which admittedly is very bad), what exactly is "more broken" in patch 1.4? Edit - I guess you could say resolve is "more broken"...and I suppose that would be true too in some ways.

 

I luvz me a Jaiyne!!!

 

I think the short answer to your question is that TTK is shorter than it has ever been and CC is a bigger mess than it has ever been. At least that's my two cents on the matter, and that was all set in motion with 1.2. 1.1.5 was just right imo.

 

Edit: BTW...1.5 and HK-51 hit the PTS today. Too bad my Pubs and Imps are on separate servers and I can't unlock HK...

Edited October 11, 2012 by DarthOvertone

I watch and read interviews with Gabe and I always walk away with the estimation that he understands the PvP shortfalls of this game and what it needs. I really get a sense that he has his finger on the pulse of what the PvP community needs and wants.

 

For a short time, PvP was actually getting better from EA to 1.1.5. My confidence in BW, which was utterly shattered with the Ilum Valor Patch, was slowly being restored. Then 1.2 hit and PvP in this game went sideways again and hasn't recovered, slowly spiraling downward to 1.4 which is by far the worst Patch to date. It seems the best PvP days of SWTOR are behind it. 1.1.5 apparently was the golden period for PvP in this game.

 

And it seems to me that Gabe, although he appears to have a firm understanding of the state of PvP in this game, is just juggling too much stuff to give PvP the attention it deserves (he is also in charge of endgame PvE Ops and FPS). PvP really needs its own dedicated Lead Dev. It's just not a part-time job. The project management and quality control from a PvP standpoint have been an utter disaster in this game.

 

I wish you the best of luck Pistols. Your Forum contributions were always an entertaining read. It's a shame we are losing another good player and Star Wars fan because EA/BW keeps failing so badly.

 

Thanks man, and for the most part I agree. I don't think Gabe and crew knew how to do anything PvP development wise though, even prior to 1.2 the amount of changes and failure of Ilum rests on him. If he had the slightest clue or a pulse on the PvP gameplay, it wouldn't have atrophied so much. Gabe's failures alone, the entire PvP development team is to blame, he isn't by himself, and none of them have a clue. The PvP game overall (overall people) is garbage when it comes to development. The broken features alone show this to be an accurate description.

 

And yeah, pre 1.2 it was pretty fun (despite glowing issues abundant, but we made concessions due to the game being new), and I enjoyed the addition of Ranked and actually queue'ing with people I wanted to play with. Pre-season lasting this long, with no hint of when Season One is coming is laughable at best. Mythic just fails and runs PvP types out of games these days. Oh well, I tried to endure it as long as possible, but I guess nearly 2 million players can't be wrong? Guilds are disappearing daily, coupled with good players and a shrinking friends list...has finally shown me what others knew well before me.

 

Best of luck to those still having fun, in the end, that's what matters.

Edited October 11, 2012 by AllisonBerryman

^ <3 Alpha

 

But...aside from the broken backfill (which admittedly is very bad), what exactly is "more broken" in patch 1.4? Edit - I guess you could say resolve is "more broken"...and I suppose that would be true too in some ways.

 

You either like the PvP and combat in this game or you don't. None of that was broken in 1.4 by my estimation.

 

There are things people want that don't exist - x-server, arena, etc. But none of that was broken in 1.4, as it never existed.

 

People seem to be coming back to TOR not leaving it...from GW2 (which seems to have been a one month game for many people) and other places.

 

No?

 

Its really a bunch of compound issues not all 1.4, 1.4 was "The Straw" for many folks. 1.4 Specific the Resolve change is considered bad by many, Backfill, And Depending on class there are several abilities that were busted...and still are. Merc/Commando have several issues relating to TL etc. Warrior/JK have an issue with Smash not doing any damage at random...There are graphics issues causing unplayability...and there is also some kind of Server to client lag causing bad warping for some etc...Thats just off the top of my head.

 

Im not going into the things that should have been addressed long term...that are just sitting un used and broken.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Soljin

^ <3 Alpha

 

But...aside from the broken backfill (which admittedly is very bad), what exactly is "more broken" in patch 1.4? Edit - I guess you could say resolve is "more broken"...and I suppose that would be true too in some ways.

 

You either like the PvP and combat in this game or you don't. None of that was broken in 1.4 by my estimation.

 

There are things people want that don't exist - x-server, arena, etc. But none of that was broken in 1.4, as it never existed.

 

People seem to be coming back to TOR not leaving it...from GW2 (which seems to have been a one month game for many people) and other places.

 

No?

 

Yeah, just gonna go ahead and point you to the masses of threads over the last 2 weeks lol.

 

And to your last part...just...lol no.

I luvz me a Jaiyne!!!

 

I think the short answer to your question is that TTK is shorter than it has ever been and CC is a bigger mess than it has ever been. At least that's my two cents on the matter, and that was all set in motion with 1.2. 1.1.5 was just right imo.

 

Agree totally - but this didn't change in 1.4. As a sorc and sage, it's been rough for a long, long time and balance has never really been back for my mains since the big nerfs earlier this year. But that said, the only thing that really sticks out to me in 1.4 is the broken backfill, which they have said they are fixing. Resolve doesn't seem broken as much as tweaked. I am still CC'd constantly, which is nothing new for me as a sorc/sage.

 

Maybe because I play classes that are considered "weak" by almost every other AC, I just don't notice as much as others do. I can say that I have never seen so many smash derpmasters around now of course

I am in a large guild (or what used to be MPI) and most of them went to either the EMU or GW2 and there have been no signs to suggest they will be coming back from either. Anyone who knows of that guild, I typically am the only one on most nights. Sometimes we get up to 3 or 4. Only reason I am not moving on, is because I debate just being done with MMOs after SWTOR. I might pop in the EMU then, since it will be free and I can sandbox.

Thanks man, and for the most part I agree. I don't think Gabe and crew knew how to do anything PvP development wise though, even prior to 1.2 the amount of changes and failure of Ilum rests on him. If he had the slightest clue or a pulse on the PvP gameplay, it wouldn't have atrophied so much. Gabe's failures alone, the entire PvP development team is to blame, he isn't by himself, and none of them have a clue. The PvP game overall (overall people) is garbage when it comes to development. The broken features alone show this to be an accurate description.

 

And yeah, pre 1.2 it was pretty fun (despite glowing issues abundant, but we made concessions due to the game being new), and I enjoyed the addition of Ranked and actually queue'ing with people I wanted to play with. Pre-season lasting this long, with no hint of when Season One is coming is laughable at best. Mythic just fails and runs PvP types out of games these days. Oh well, I tried to endure it as long as possible, but I guess nearly 2 million players can't be wrong? Guilds are disappearing daily, coupled with good players and a shrinking friends list...has finally shown me what others knew well before me.

 

Best of luck to those still having fun, in the end, that's what matters.

 

 

Its getting pretty sad...If I dont here some seriously good news about PvP plans soon Im packing it in as well...I love Star Wars more then any other IP but this Dev team should be protected from themselves....and since listening doesnt seem to be a strong point for them...Id say its only going to get worse.

 

I think this game is PvE and they just want PvP to be a side track kinda like the Crappy Space game they designed...They dont care if they lose PvP only players...its pretty clear now.

Edited October 11, 2012 by AllisonBerryman

Yeah, just gonna go ahead and point you to the masses of threads over the last 2 weeks lol.

 

And to your last part...just...lol no.

 

Well I'm sorry that's been your experience, but I can't say it's mine. Most of my friends came back from GW2 after a month. Many came back after 2 weeks

 

PS - masses of threads don't mean anything other than people like to complain. I like to complain about things too, but that doesn't mean anything other than human nature. *shrug*

Well I'm sorry that's been your experience, but I can't say it's mine. Most of my friends came back from GW2 after a month. Many came back after 2 weeks

 

PS - masses of threads don't mean anything other than people like to complain. I like to complain about things too, but that doesn't mean anything other than human nature. *shrug*

 

Just because you're satisfied doesn't mean everybody else is. The numerous threads where people are complaining about resolve and everything else "broken" doesn't just mean people like to QQ, if it's been going on for this long it's obviously somewhat important and should be payed attention to.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I agree that PvP does deserve better. We need resolve back to pre 1.4, another huttball map, the new warzone that was announced, and more. HK-51, TFB, Makeb... these are all PvE updates, same with legacy (aside from the warzone experience, which I'm grateful for). It seems like the majority of the class changes have also been centered toward PvE players (e.g. ruining immortal juggernaut's damage. making them close to useless in most PvP matches). Can't PvP get some love?

Agree totally - but this didn't change in 1.4.

 

Actually the TTK duration did shorten even more with 1.4 due to the introduction of EWH Weapons and Off-Hands.

 

The experience with Resolve seems to vary depending on the classes people play most, and whether they play LWZs or NWZs/RWZs. Since pretty much every class had their 30m hard stun reduced to 10m, my melee classes suffer a more constant barrage of CC.

 

However, my Sniper and Vanguard range based toons haven't noticed much of a change. I don't play Sorc/Sage so I'm not sure where they fit into the grand scheme of CC proximity, but they seem to benefit a great deal from being able to spam CC without penalty due to the Resolve changes.

 

As an aside on my melee toons, I could mechanically depend on my CC Breaker pre-1.4 when Resolve was filled. Since 1.4, this is not the case since Resolve doesn't fill as quickly and the fast TTK means you will be routinely dispatched if you don't take a gamble and pop the CC breaker based on a situation. Resolve used to be something my toons could depend on. Now it is not.

Well I'm sorry that's been your experience, but I can't say it's mine. Most of my friends came back from GW2 after a month. Many came back after 2 weeks

 

PS - masses of threads don't mean anything other than people like to complain. I like to complain about things too, but that doesn't mean anything other than human nature. *shrug*

 

Welp, all I can is best of luck to you and your friends.

 

I'm sure TOR PvP will deliver soon.

All good points, Alpha!

 

Whatever, this forum has been filled with dissatisfaction since game's launch. I have been plenty unhappy about many of the PvP issues in this game; so much so that I unsubbed back in March and came back in July to give it another try. There is no doubt this game's PvP could be so much better - but I guess I just don't see 1.4 as the deathknell that many do