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Feedback request from James Ohlen - Group Finder


StephenReid

What part of a Group Finder feature is most important to you?  

3,234 members have voted

  1. 1. What part of a Group Finder feature is most important to you?

    • Forming a group for Operations
      180
    • Forming a group for Flashpoints
      1653
    • Forming a group for Heroic Missions
      273
    • Forming a group for something else
      39
    • No preference/all of the above
      1089


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Wish there was a "same server only!" option. That would be most important to me.

 

Yes, options are good. Allow folks to choose their own preferences!

 

1) Speed or Social run to group similarly goaled players

2) Quick Travel to Ops/FP/Heroic Area if desired

3) Xserver or Single Server per user

4) specify if they want to form group with \friends and/or \ignores (Xserver \friends and \ignores to help this)

5) specify 2 roles once multi spec is available

6) Queueing as full or partial group

7) specify if they want to avoid grouping with others with the same role/primary stat

8) specify if they want to be grouped with fellow RPers

9) specify grouping by RL Age, Sex, Location?

10) grouping by Gamer Psychology (Bartle Test: Achiever, Explorer, Socializers, Killers)

 

Perhaps cross server grouping would be a rewarding experience if the players were sharing the same goals.

 

For instance, anytime you mix a Killer with a Socializer someone is probably going to have a poor experience. Perhaps we should be uniting types of players across servers rather than just relying on reputation in the community to keep disgruntled players in check? This could resolve the server population issues without negatively effecting players.

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Yes, options are good. Allow folks to choose their own preferences!

 

1) Speed or Social run to group similarly goaled players

2) Quick Travel to Ops/FP/Heroic Area if desired

3) Xserver or Single Server per user

4) specify if they want to form group with \friends and/or \ignores (Xserver \friends and \ignores to help this)

5) specify 2 roles once multi spec is available

6) Queueing as full or partial group

7) specify if they want to avoid grouping with others with the same role/primary stat

8) specify if they want to be grouped with fellow RPers

9) specify grouping by RL Age, Sex, Location?

10) grouping by Gamer Psychology (Bartle Test: Achiever, Explorer, Socializers, Killers)

 

Perhaps cross server grouping would be a rewarding experience if the players were sharing the same goals.

 

For instance, anytime you mix a Killer with a Socializer someone is probably going to have a poor experience. Perhaps we should be uniting types of players across servers rather than just relying on reputation in the community to keep disgruntled players in check? This could resolve the server population issues without negatively effecting players.

 

Very good points! The more options we get in how we queue for the flashpoint the better.

 

I like the options for 1st Choice Role (Healer) and 2nd Choice Role (DPS). That's a good idea!

Edited by chaosdefined
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Flashpoints should be primary focus (including Heroic versions).

 

I save my Ops for guild runs. Although I suppose I wouldnt mind an LFR (LFO?) either, though I would not use it.

 

Only thing I really care about is to make sure you do something about the population problems affecting some servers (stop denying them!) before releasing any type of Group Finder. Its useless if your on a dead server.

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My vote says Hard Modes only.

 

Something that happened when WoW implemented their group finder was, people could jump into instances and just blitz through everything, hitting level cap in a week or less if done right. Doing PvE with those people was nearly a damn job, because they had little to no knowledge of their class. They just got carried by everyone else in the group and failed at the "monkey see, monkey do" method they employed. Then those people get into Hard Modes or Operations and wonder why everyone's talking really slow to them and being mean mean doodieheads. It's because their quick-and-easy route just wiped our boss fight, that's why.

 

Also, if I was the dev that spent all that hard work making the story and designing the planets, then every single paying member of this community is leveling through them. Same reason you should take experience gains out of Warzones, at least the leveling part, and make PvP a level-cap-only thing. But that's a different thread.

 

And for Operations, those should be manual grouping to force people into using the "mulitplayer" part of MMO. Operations are the advanced play. They require cooperation between eight different people and as anyone who's done Warzones can tell you, that is far from a given thing. To be blunt, I'd like to be able to make sure the healer I'm trusting to keep me alive is not so wet behind the ears you can hear the water gushing out off them in Vent.

 

Yes. Y-E-S. Yes. This poster has a point about what the LFG tool did for WoW. Please learn from their mistakes.

 

Also, like I've said a hundred times, single server please. Something also happens when you give people the ability to group up with people they will likely never see again - they lose all sense of common decency and behave like utter cretins. This ruins the experience of the content. If it is limited to a single server, people will begin to create reputations for themselves on their server. Their behavior will mean something.

Edited by Dolcia
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"My vote says Hard Modes only."

 

I think that's a horrible idea. Getting a group for Flashpoints whilst levelling is the worst part!

 

There really are a lot of people here who have no regard for other players experiences, then the cheek to say that it's the Group Finder that breeds inconsiderate behaviour.

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"My vote says Hard Modes only."

 

I think that's a horrible idea. Getting a group for Flashpoints whilst levelling is the worst part!

 

There really are a lot of people here who have no regard for other players experiences, then the cheek to say that it's the Group Finder that breeds inconsiderate behaviour.

 

Exactly! All that behavior from WoW that they falsely attribute to its xrealm LFD tool, is behavior that I've seen in SWTOR quite frequently and we don't even have a same server tool yet! And it existed in WoW, without consequence long before they implemented their tool.

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My vote says Hard Modes only.

 

Something that happened when WoW implemented their group finder was, people could jump into instances and just blitz through everything, hitting level cap in a week or less if done right. Doing PvE with those people was nearly a damn job, because they had little to no knowledge of their class. They just got carried by everyone else in the group and failed at the "monkey see, monkey do" method they employed. Then those people get into Hard Modes or Operations and wonder why everyone's talking really slow to them and being mean mean doodieheads. It's because their quick-and-easy route just wiped our boss fight, that's why.

 

Also, if I was the dev that spent all that hard work making the story and designing the planets, then every single paying member of this community is leveling through them. Same reason you should take experience gains out of Warzones, at least the leveling part, and make PvP a level-cap-only thing. But that's a different thread.

 

And for Operations, those should be manual grouping to force people into using the "mulitplayer" part of MMO. Operations are the advanced play. They require cooperation between eight different people and as anyone who's done Warzones can tell you, that is far from a given thing. To be blunt, I'd like to be able to make sure the healer I'm trusting to keep me alive is not so wet behind the ears you can hear the water gushing out off them in Vent.

 

The only way someone hit level cap in a week in WoW is if they paid a leveling service to do it around the clock for them or if they themselves put some serious hardcore hours in. Gearing things around what the hardcore may or may not do is the LAST thing any MMO company should be doing. And if you want an idea of how the devs may be thinking look at what Blizzard did with Sunwell Plateau. All those many man-hours worth of work and then only a very small percentage of the population even attempted it much less cleared it (not counting those who later went back in as 80's). That's why they said they'd never make something that difficult again. The xrealm lfd tool opened up the endgame for more people (it's intended purpose) and brought a lot of very welcome convenience. Yes, there were some bad groups and there even here and there a string of bad groups, but overall it was a positive experience (and I can say the same sentence about the 'manual' groups from before the tool). The truly bad players you describe were by far the exception and not the norm.

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I feel that lfg for all is good as i believe many ppl have experience in the "other game" where when you are geared and prepared for raids from dungeon, ppl will start to look for ppl with experience in boss fight then is able to join the grp for raids. This will cause another road block for new players sad to say :( . So lfg for all is still the choice for me. sorry for the crap english still having an hangover "burp". Eh dungeon is flashpoint and raid is operation i guess sorry haven't been into operation till now so i guess is something like a raid. Edited by FriendlyTrooper
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Yes. Y-E-S. Yes. This poster has a point about what the LFG tool did for WoW. Please learn from their mistakes.

 

Also, like I've said a hundred times, single server please. Something also happens when you give people the ability to group up with people they will likely never see again - they lose all sense of common decency and behave like utter cretins. This ruins the experience of the content. If it is limited to a single server, people will begin to create reputations for themselves on their server. Their behavior will mean something.

 

No he doesn't.

 

ANY monkey can play ANY MMO and get to level cap without knowing the ins and outs of group play, especially group play that is dependent upon players using all of their tools.

 

Having a tool that allows players to easily group before max level may not improve the skill level of every player, but it certainly increases the odds players will have some clue over those that level doing nothing but kill 10 of X quests, which is what more players will do without an easy grouping tool.

 

And sorry, but cross server LFG in WoW did not create ignorant, bad or rude players. They existed long before the tool did, and they exist here in SWTOR without an LFG tool.

 

And the 'but you can't make friends if it is cross server' is another fallacy. I've made friends with many players using the LFG tool, and with the RealID feature, I can actually group with them again REGARDLESS of what server they are on. I even found my last guild through a chance encounter using the LFG tool.

 

I'm sorry, but all I see in the anti-LFG / anti-cross server posts is people trying to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

 

Providing more tools and choices to allow more players to meet and maintain friendships with more players can only help to improve the game.

 

So yes to LFG, yes to it being cross server, yes to it including as much content as possible, and yes to adding even more capabilities like cross server 'friending' tools which allow us to break down the technical barriers that servers place between us.

 

And for those that want to stick their heads in the sand, give them the ability to 'opt out' of anything they don't wish to use.

Edited by DawnAskham
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In terms of priority, Flashpoints are at the top for me. They are the most difficult things to find groups for. As all of them require the specific set up of healer, tank, dps x2.

 

Operations are typically guild events. Most guilds can't at least get enough people to do 8 man runs.

 

I can usually stumble into a PUG group for the heroics that are worth doing, and heroics don't always require the standard FP set up. Sometimes you can get away with not having a dedicated tank or having a player use a companion, ect.

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That sentence is just too ridiculous to not comment on.

 

You CAN NOT opt out of LFG.

Once LFG is introduced, the majority of people WILL use it, no matter if they like to or not.

Which leaves no people left to group with for those who do not want to use it.

Except for guild-runs, there is NO WAY to avoid using the LFG. No choice. Use it or don't run content isn't "choice".

 

 

Two other misconceptions that keep poping up:

 

1) Sure, LFG does not CREATE d-bags, ninjas and slackers who need to be carried.

BUT: it allows them to get into groups. Into YOUR group, too.

And the lack of social pressure also lowers the inhibitions of people to behave badly. Not only that, this in turn leads to a raw climate in groups which then leads to even the normally most well behaved people to stop being nice.

That's simple group dynamics, you can observe tha anywhere, not only in MMOs.

Though the internet's anonymity doesn'texcactly prevent that from happening, does it? ;)

 

 

2) Sorry to blow your pipe-dreams, but: LFG won't solve your grouping problems. Lack of groups is not a result of lack of an LFG.

Geared people don't run HMs because they've got nothing to gain except for repair bills. LFG doesn't change that.

Low-level instances and H4s don't get run because on many server's there's not enough people in the level range that COULD actually run it. LFG doesn't change that.

 

 

I can understand you want to group and do content. I certainly do want that.

But the problem that makes this hard is not the lack of any tool, it's the lack of population on many servers. On healthy servers, there's little to no problems finding groups.

But, instead of asking for a fix to the real problem, you guys are asking for a magic tool that makes the problem go away.

Hint: it won't.

X-Server LFG could help some - but X-Server LFG won't work for those things that could use it most: Worldbosses, H4s and some of the other stuff you'll only do once per character, if at all. It might help with low-level FPs and HMs - but on the other hand, it'll create and/or amplify other problems for those, and the problem could be fixed a lot more easily by adding incentives.

 

 

TL;DR: You're asking for magig and miracles. Stop it, think! Then ask for solutions instead.

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You CAN NOT opt out of LFG.

Once LFG is introduced, the majority of people WILL use it, no matter if they like to or not.

Which leaves no people left to group with for those who do not want to use it.

Except for guild-runs, there is NO WAY to avoid using the LFG. No choice. Use it or don't run content isn't "choice".

.

 

Sorry I find that completely ridiculous in fact.

 

There is ALWAYS a choice not to use it. Nobody is making you and if you feel you have no choice, well that's your own fault and nobody else.

 

When I played WoW for a long time after the LFD came out, people were still asking in Trade for 5-man groups to go after achievements and such. So don't give me any of that rubbish.

 

It's entirely down to you. You have the choice. You have the option. Don't try to pass the blame or make up excuses. Don't want it? Don't use it. It is that simple.

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Sorry I find that completely ridiculous in fact.

 

There is ALWAYS a choice not to use it. Nobody is making you and if you feel you have no choice, well that's your own fault and nobody else.

 

When I played WoW for a long time after the LFD came out, people were still asking in Trade for 5-man groups to go after achievements and such. So don't give me any of that rubbish.

 

It's entirely down to you. You have the choice. You have the option. Don't try to pass the blame or make up excuses. Don't want it? Don't use it. It is that simple.

 

You're comparing apples with oranges.

Making a group for specific content with specific goal in mine, like achievements/mount runs/etc. is not the same as running a normal dungeon for rewards.

This game doesn't reward achievements/mounts (at least currently) the same way wow does.

You'll be able to choose between looking for a group or running the LFG.

And since most people will rather hit a button than socialize, people will be forced into LFG regardless.

You said you played wow, it should be pretty obvious to you by now.

 

The funniest lines you said are:

There is ALWAYS a choice not to use it. Nobody is making you and if you feel you have no choice, well that's your own fault and nobody else.

It's entirely down to you. You have the choice. You have the option. Don't try to pass the blame or make up excuses. Don't want it? Don't use it. It is that simple.

 

You want one system with seemingly one option to turn into a system that is...you guessed it, one sided.

Oh but the new system is DEFINITELY less one-sided than it is now, since you like that option more and all....

 

/facepalm

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You said you played wow, it should be pretty obvious to you by now.

 

i think its pretty good advice to say you should ignore anyones opinion on a group finder that played wow.because they all think its what killed the community in that game

 

maybe if the community itself wasnt horrible to begin with,the community would of been fine group tool or not

Edited by CrunkShizzle
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You're comparing apples with oranges.

Making a group for specific content with specific goal in mine, like achievements/mount runs/etc. is not the same as running a normal dungeon for rewards.

This game doesn't reward achievements/mounts (at least currently) the same way wow does.

You'll be able to choose between looking for a group or running the LFG.

And since most people will rather hit a button than socialize, people will be forced into LFG regardless.

You said you played wow, it should be pretty obvious to you by now.

 

The funniest lines you said are:

There is ALWAYS a choice not to use it. Nobody is making you and if you feel you have no choice, well that's your own fault and nobody else.

It's entirely down to you. You have the choice. You have the option. Don't try to pass the blame or make up excuses. Don't want it? Don't use it. It is that simple.

 

You want one system with seemingly one option to turn into a system that is...you guessed it, one sided.

Oh but the new system is DEFINITELY less one-sided than it is now, since you like that option more and all....

 

/facepalm

 

You clearly haven't read my posts yet feel you can jump in and assume everything about my intentions.

 

Yet go back one or two pages, and you'll find where I had said ideally I would like a Group Finder that allowed the option for Cross-Server Or Single Server queueing, as I feel this would be the most suitable option to please as many as it can.

 

Though your comparison of 'it's not the same pugging a group for a goal as it is pugging a group for a reward' is somewhat...well I think it's fairly obvious.

 

People can pug if they want in Chat. Just because they don't, doesn't make it anyone else's fault but their own. You keep blaming the tool for this, but it didn't stop them from deciding to ask in Chat for a group. Humans have this wonderful thing called Free Will. They need to accept their own responsibilities and stop blaming something else for "feeling they have no choice but to use the Group Finder.".

 

Also I'm really not sure what you're trying to say in your final statement, perhaps it's because I'm tired and it's late, or perhaps because you're just not actually making sense.

Edited by chaosdefined
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i think its pretty good advice to say you should ignore anyones opinion on a group finder that played wow.because they all think its what killed the community in that game

 

maybe if the community itself wasnt horrible to begin with,the community would of been fine group tool or not

 

Actually, many of us who played WoW loved the x-sever LFD tool. I have friends that had quit who came back when suddenly they were able to actually get groups when they wanted and got geared up to do raids which they thought they'd never do. It was Cata that led to us quitting. And as many have said, the bad behavior existed long before that tool and exists in this game currently. And you're right, much of that community was a cesspool long before the tool.

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I'm glad to see bioware is working towards a matchmaking system for their PvE content. It's a big step forward and we hope they implement it as soon as possible. There is enough people playing the game to make it successful if it works as a cross server tool, that would also solve part of the problem with faction imbalances among servers.
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If you can have the option of chosing wether to look x-server or not, all good and fine. I for my part was sorely dissapointed with too many groups in WoW which basically treated people found via the LFD tool as NPCs - something the system spits out on demand to help them reaching a certain goal. I would not want to experience that ever again, rather have no LFD tool at all.
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If the Group Finder is implemented it must have cross-server option at least. To those who believe this destroys the "community" should know they are in fact mistaken.

 

As it stands now, numbers on all but a few servers, even during peak times, are somewhat low. I rarely see triple digit populations on any world, even the space stations, on either server I play on. For a while I was doing flashpoint runs fairly often, say 2-6 a day, but recently that ability has all but vanished. This has caused fewer and fewer people to even log on during non-raid nights and in my guild that has lead to some people just disappearing. The result is, we went from clearing at least 8 man hard mode EV each weeks and sometimes 16 man during January/February, to not even being able to get an 8 man reg EV come March. People weren't g-quitting, they just weren't on as much.

 

My point is, A cross-server LFG helps the community by giving more players consistent access to group content. Sure you're going to have the jerks who are cruel and rude, but for the most part the groups are fine. The only real problem I can see is ninja-looters. The fix for that is a simple one that several MMOs have employed, restrict who can need for an item. This means a Sith Juggernaut cannot roll need on a cunning based piece of armor for his companion, but he could still roll greed. In the end, if the LFG tool isn't cross server, its usefulness will be limited and will be scarcely more useful than the current LFG system in-game.

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