As the Guild Leader/Raid Leader for a fully SWTOR progressed group, I am going to say something that a lot of you "hardcore raiders" might not want to hear.. The Hardcore PVPers make much better raiders than pvErs. They (pvpers) think faster on their feet and have better situational awareness, and actually know what all those buttons on their toolbars do. Also, if you have full battlemaster/war hero, by all means, you are welcome in my raids. That means you've spent at least 2-3 weeks casually or 1-2 weeks hardcore earning the comms to buy the stuff.

 

I just pugged myself into a republic side raid last night on my gunslinger (full war hero, 0 T/C/R). Guess what? According to SWMONITOR I was the highest DPSer out of the 4 with an average sustatined DPS of around 1200, and 1 of them was a mix of rakata/columi with all of the rest of them in columi with very little tionese... So please, you PVE'Raid'Elitists, step off of your perch and get back down to reality. PVPers make better raiders. /End of discussion.

 

First, I hate "end of discussion" endings. Discussion is not going to end and it shouldn't end. It's just your opinion, not universal truth.

 

Second, very well put, I agree

 

And to the OP, yes BM is more than enough for story mode EV/KP

Edited June 22, 2012 by Ameepa

Define good enough. If you are OK with being carried and not pulling your weight, yes it is good enough.

As the Guild Leader/Raid Leader for a fully SWTOR progressed group, I am going to say something that a lot of you "hardcore raiders" might not want to hear.. The Hardcore PVPers make much better raiders than pvErs. They (pvpers) think faster on their feet and have better situational awareness, and actually know what all those buttons on their toolbars do. Also, if you have full battlemaster/war hero, by all means, you are welcome in my raids. That means you've spent at least 2-3 weeks casually or 1-2 weeks hardcore earning the comms to buy the stuff.

 

I just pugged myself into a republic side raid last night on my gunslinger (full war hero, 0 T/C/R). Guess what? According to SWMONITOR I was the highest DPSer out of the 4 with an average sustatined DPS of around 1200, and 1 of them was a mix of rakata/columi with all of the rest of them in columi with very little tionese... So please, you PVE'Raid'Elitists, step off of your perch and get back down to reality. PVPers make better raiders. /End of discussion.

 

This is not necessarily true. While there is definitely some carryover, great PvEers can also make great PvPers. And just because someone PvPs does not necessarily mean that A) they are good at PvP and B) they will be good at PvE.

 

The lowest DPS in my guild joined us with full BM gear. We've got him some rakata/BH gear since then and he is still the lowest DPS, still occasionally stands in fire or is out of position.

 

To me, trying to do end game PvE in PvP gear is a sign of laziness, not skill.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Icebergy

This is not necessarily true. While there is definitely some carryover, great PvEers can also make great PvPers. And just because someone PvPs does not necessarily mean that A) they are good at PvP and B) they will be good at PvE.

 

The lowest DPS in my guild joined us with full BM gear. We've got him some rakata/BH gear since then and he is still the lowest DPS, still occasionally stands in fire or is out of position.

 

To me, trying to do end game PvE in PvP gear is a sign of laziness, not skill.

 

Couldn't agree more. Anyone who thinks that just because one PvPs or is good at PvP will make them good at PvE on a high-end level is ignorant in my opinion.

As far as "clicking". When talking about hardcore raiders, there is no clicking. That does not go on at the high-end level.

 

Go to youtube. I've seen NiM runs with clicker snipers/gunslingers and commandos/mercs. In PVE, it really doesn't make that much of a difference when you're just standing still.

 

SM ops are fine with BM, but if you haven't gone through the HM FPs before, I'd suggest gearing up that way because your PVE rotation is not going to be the same as your PVP rotation. Since each HM drops a different columni piece, you can gear up as fast as you want by running each one.

Go to youtube. I've seen NiM runs with clicker snipers/gunslingers and commandos/mercs. In PVE, it really doesn't make that much of a difference when you're just standing still.

 

SM ops are fine with BM, but if you haven't gone through the HM FPs before, I'd suggest gearing up that way because your PVE rotation is not going to be the same as your PVP rotation. Since each HM drops a different columni piece, you can gear up as fast as you want by running each one.

 

Anyone can do NMM runs eventually. Go look at the people who will be clearing NMM Denova just days or a week or so after it is out. They do not click. I would know...

Define good enough. If you are OK with being carried and not pulling your weight, yes it is good enough.

 

Seriously? BM is fine for story mode EV/KP. And truly the higher end PvPers with augmented WH with some good modding can rival rakata gear easy.

Seriously? BM is fine for story mode EV/KP. And truly the higher end PvPers with augmented WH with some good modding can rival rakata gear easy.

 

He meant this in reference to SM EC I believe. WH can rival Rakata, yes, but not Campaign.

From personal observation, PvE and PvP do indeed require slightly different skillsets. In PvP, it's all about knowing your full ability set, reacting quickly to changing circumstances, choosing the right counter for the given opposition and picking correct tactics on the fly. PvE is more about optimizing rotations, managing energy, playing according to a preset plan, coordinating with teammates and knowing your role. Due to that, there can be good PvErs that are not good PvPers and vice versa and it doesn't really need to be a technical matter (the one thing is that it's generally much easier to single out a good PvPer than it is to single out a good PvEer due to the fact that PvP has scoring as its fundamental mechanic). That said, nothing precludes a good PvPer from being a good PvEer and vice versa. Battlemaster gear is certainly enough for HM FPs / story mode ops, especially on the DPS end (remember that the damage output of weapons is based purely on the barrel / hilt's level rating and in that respect, BM gear is equivalent to Rakata).

From personal observation, PvE and PvP do indeed require slightly different skillsets. In PvP, it's all about knowing your full ability set, reacting quickly to changing circumstances, choosing the right counter for the given opposition and picking correct tactics on the fly. PvE is more about optimizing rotations, managing energy, playing according to a preset plan, coordinating with teammates and knowing your role. Due to that, there can be good PvErs that are not good PvPers and vice versa and it doesn't really need to be a technical matter (the one thing is that it's generally much easier to single out a good PvPer than it is to single out a good PvEer due to the fact that PvP has scoring as its fundamental mechanic). That said, nothing precludes a good PvPer from being a good PvEer and vice versa. Battlemaster gear is certainly enough for HM FPs / story mode ops, especially on the DPS end (remember that the damage output of weapons is based purely on the barrel / hilt's level rating and in that respect, BM gear is equivalent to Rakata).

 

Agreed.