That level of "toxicity" where some peps get flamed on streams you will see in every gaming community. If you put out your performance publicly, be prepared to be judged, and not necessarily in a constructive way. It's not something that I endorse, don't get me wrong, but you do find that attitude in any gaming community.

Related to NiM community not being helpful, I strongly disagree. Did you reach out to teams that cleared it and you didn't get any help? Every time I've asked directly players from FC, LSD, Mangos, and many others that cleared fights before us, beside providing complete feedback, with detailed tips on certain classes they also offered direct assistance with joining the runs if/when we needed.

That statement is BS.

Dont know if im gonna cry or laugh on some of the answers in this thread.. but what can i say humanity as it finest

i just find it funny that people go full yolo on a guy who wanted to point out some true facts on how this " raiding community " are right now.

Dont know if im gonna cry or laugh on some of the answers in this thread.. but what can i say humanity as it finest

i just find it funny that people go full yolo on a guy who wanted to point out some true facts on how this " raiding community " are right now.

Enlighten me my friend, what are some "true ""facts"" that were pointed out?

Enlighten me my friend, what are some "true ""facts"" that were pointed out?

I really dont know what i shall say more then just read what has been said from everyone in this thread and get your " pov " from it. im just stating my pov from it, and its clearly some people's true color showing themself.

This thread clearly shows what went wrong with SWTOR nightmare raiding "community" (on all sides). No wonder dev attention had been going everywhere else for years. Reading this I wouldn't be surprised if it does so again.

I've been doing a lot of team oriented stuff in all sorts of areas through the years (sports, music, arts, business). I'Ve also known gaming communities for years now and learned my lessons in them. I find the low amount of social competences there, the tendency to seek acknowledment for yourself while looking for all sorts of reasons to deny it to others, the lack of common sense and the disregard of basic principles of RL human interaction altogether surprising and disturbing at the same time, when you compare those areas to other communities of people who dedicate themselves to team activities.

You can blame some of it on certain principles of the gaming industry, i.e. how they abuse findings of motivational psychology when designing reward systems, but SWTOR is by no means on the forefront of that.

I don't mean to be toxic with what I wrote. It's just unfortunate when great potential remains unused for strange reasons.

I really dont know what i shall say more then just read what has been said from everyone in this thread and get your " pov " from it. im just stating my pov from it, and its clearly some people's true color showing themself.

You said Zwirni pointed out some true facts in his original post, which has nothing to do with the replies or reactions. I'm curious as to what, in your opinion, those facts are.

Time *should* be seen as very valuable, especially if you have a busy work/family life. You're expecting people who have no interest in writing, perhaps no writing/editing skills at all, who have ALSO cleared this content AND are confident enough in their gaming skills and knowledge to spend time doing this. Not to mention, maybe some people don't want to write something and risk criticism or trolling (like you, who is whining about it *gasp*).

As I already said time is not the deciding factor here. You obviously disagree but the most important part is that I didn't attack anyone who has no writing/editing skills or isn't confident enough to create guides.

What i criticized is the fact that over 120-150 people killed Izax NiM before me and noone was willing to create guides or simple talkthrough-videos for every boss covering the basic mechanics and tactics.

I highly doubt that all of these 120-150 people fall into the categories you mentioned. The more reasonable explanation is that noone cared enough to create them, which would be an honest answer that I could respect.

Obviously you can, again, disagree with me on that because we both don't have solid proof.

We're all here to have fun. This should be the point! And you're there on your high horse belittling people for doing something that they don't desire because it's what YOU want?

First of all, I didn't belittle anyone but the people who attacked/flamed/trolled us on our streams. it was necessary to point at those people to maybe help them change into more socially acceptable people. So I never insulted you or your raiding team with my post.

On the other hand I am not ashamed to say what I want. It is worrisome to not just me, but many other people who sent me PNs or messages on Discord, that noone had the intention of creating guides for GftM NiM except Jaydenz who did it for tanks but not for overall tactics.

This is the craziest **** I've come across in SWTOR in a long while (I say SWTOR because this **** is vanilla compared to the majority of other gaming communities). Maybe you don't realize that dulfy got paid to run her site and she paid teams to write guides.

It is crazy to you that someone wants the more successful players to help the others publicly? As I said already, I am very sure that everyone who got asked about GftM NiM answered to the best of their abilities and was helpful on that occasion. My problem is that in other games top guilds create guides to help others. Take Method in World of Warcraft for example. They have a class-guide for pretty much every spec and are involved in helping the community to get better. In SW:ToR the continuously raiding guilds have a different approach. They help you if you ask them. But new people don't do that.

If it is still crazy to you that i want to change that attitude then so be it, I can't convince everyone.

I think what's most hilarious is that I LIKED your post at first. I thought--DAMN! Someone used their own free time to create talk-through videos and even a timeline. I understood that it takes a high level of enjoyment, dedication and time and I would have never downplayed that (like you do above). Because rightfully so, that kind of effort should absolutely be lauded and appreciated.

Thanks. Although I never downplayed anything I understand how you got that impression. As I already answered to nandoory's post:

I clearly stated though that the 41 hours we needed were progress hours, so excluding rekills etc. If you can only progress for 3h a week because it takes you a certain amount of time to reclear then the 41 hours still are accurate.

Plus, our excel list is complete, including rekill raiding times.

But then you ruined it by having such a horribly negative and accusatory attitude. This became a post--not to help the NiM community--but to ***** about it and catapult yourself (I would hate for anyone to associate your team with you here) to the forefront.

How does this post not help the SW:ToR community? These are the first guides/talkthrough videos in 8 months, so of course they are helpful.

Since the Izax HM guide, I did several years ago, I am on the forefront. So I didn't "catapult" myself anywhere.

Rest assured that I gave everyone in <Berserk> a first look into this thread. Noone wanted me to change something. It is harshly worded but I didn't state one thing that isn't true and needed to be changed.

You might as well have just posted, "Look at me, I'm amaaaaaazing! P.S. you all suck lol"

That is your perception. It is not grounded in my initial post. On the contrary it even states that we had weaknesses that we needed to circumvent.

Especially important is that you know your own weaknesses and are able to create tactics that circumvent those.

And again, I didn't attack anyone in my initial post but the people who tried to flame us although they took longer at every boss than we did, including all the reflect stuff at Izax and having killvideos as well. Neither you nor your raiding team ever offended us. So I am not sure where you got the impression that I told you "you all suck lol".

You mentioned you want people to post things public as well. Well, let's think about how that is defined and what it entails. Every guide I've come across is public. Anyone can access it. Now, I can create a forum post that links to my guide, but I would be afraid it would disappear eventually and it's honestly not the best resource for NiM raiders. So at most, it's a means to get the word out that my guide exists. So I have this guide. OF COURSE I want to get it to as many people as possible! Nobody in their right mind spends the time and effort writing something if nobody is going to see it.

There are occasions you only create guides for your own team, but in general yes, I agree with you.

So I try to spread the word, I post it in the best place that is going to be seen by the most people--Discord.

What number makes you believe that? If you would post it in any Discord I wouldn't see it because I am not in there. So I am curious what makes you believe that more people are on a certain Discord server than on the forums.

Maybe I create a reddit thread about it to get more people to see it. I send it to different guilds and friends. But--and here's the kicker--*without an owned domain or website* that people know about and flock to (like Dulfy), that's the most I can do right now.

You don't even mention the SW:ToR forums? That surprises me. For me it was always the most accessed resource when it comes to anything regarding SW:ToR. Isn't that why the "progression board" for example is posted in the forums and not on some Discord-Server?

So, tell me, when your thread disappears, how are you going to ensure that your talk-through videos are accessible and publicized for the foreseeable future?

Youtube. If Google goes bankrupt, you got me.

The only reason I knew about this thread was because I transferred a toon from SF to Tulak to raid with a German team. Otherwise, I would never have known about you to be frank. Never had access. Dulfy consolidated guides and videos and was a place that both casual and hardcore players knew about and flocked to. The funny thing is--the way guides are spread and shared right now--is exactly how your videos will be shared and spread.

No worries, just yesterday I joined a NiM-run on TulakHord and noone knew me.

I feel I've written too much already and it's been posted about several times, but honestly the NiM community here is one of the most helpful communities of which I've been a part.

Try out other games. You will find that pretty much every MMO has a better and more social community than SW:ToR. Doesn't matter whether you look at WoW, TESO, Rift, even Tera. Guides are released on time and publicly.

You have many people in these games who not only like creating guides and helping people but also do it freely without the need of appreciation that you get when someone comes to you to ask for help.

At this point, stop defending your terrible post. We'll have more respect for you if you just admit that it was coming from a place of anger and hurt

Again, your post lacks arguments and evidence that would support your opinions. Like the Discord-presumption.

Your opinion is that my post is terrible and came from a place of anger but, again, rest assured I have shown this thread to multiple people beforehand who might have gotten caught in the aftermath and not one of these people have the same opinion as you. Adding all the positive feedback I got in this thread, PNs and Discord-messages I don't even think that your side of the argument has the majority.

and that no, people don't owe you ****.

I never claimed that. What I stated is that it is worrisome that not one out of 120-150 people thought it would be worth the time to create guides in 8 months. Of course you can disagree with that statement, but SW:ToR is one of the few if not the only MMO which has so few guides when it comes to PvE.

P.S. Congrats on the kill! And please, remember to have fun.

Thanks, you too!