I've been a Powertech three times now, twice in beta alone. I've been monitoring the direction in which the designers have been taking the class and, with community support, I want to pitch some ideas (and report some issues) with the mechanics of the Advanced Prototype tree in particular as it is the least rewarding playstyle of the three trees available to the class.

The template of the following list items will be as follows:

|Searchable ID| Concern/Issue with overall spec or with specific ability/tree skill

Fundamental Issues:

• |G01| Survivability and Damage Seem Lower than Intended
  
• |G02| Lack of Slows/Roots/Stuns Makes PvP While Leveling a Pain
  
• |G03| Tree Useless Prior to Prototype Flame Thrower and/or Hydraulic Overrides, Weak Until Immolate
  
• |G04| Procs are Unreliable and/or Ineffective
  

Skill Tree Issues and Suggestions:

• |S01| Prototype Burn Enhancers: Also affects Retractable Blade (and possibly Rocket Punch)
  
• |S02| Prototype Electro Surge: Remove another 5 seconds from cooldown
  
• |S03| Prototype Cylinders: Ion Gas Cylinder bonus instead reduces enemy damage by 3%
  
• |S04| Prototype Cylinder Ventilation + Pneumatic Boots: Combine into one talent, create new talent
  
• |S05| Flame Barrage: Flame Sweep now has a 30% chance to proc this
  
• |S06| Serrated Blades: Also increases armor penetration against afflicted targets
  
• |S07| Prototype Flame Thrower: Reduce to 3 stacks, each stack also adds slow %, rank 1 = 100% proc but 1/2 effect
  
• |S08| Charged Gauntlets: Each RB tick grants 1 stack of Charged Gauntlets, increasing Rail Shot crit by 20% and crit damage bonus by 6%. Stacks up 5 times.
  
• |S09| Kolto Vents: 10% over 5 seconds after Vent Heat, also reduces Kolto Overload cooldown to 2 minutes (from 3 minutes)
  
• |S10| Stabilized Armor: Also reduces cooldown of Carbonize by 3 seconds for each second you are stunned or incapacitated
  
• |S11| Prototype Weapon Systems: Also increases RB and FlameFundamental Issuesge bonus
  

Fundamental Issues:

|G01| Survivability and damage seem to be lower than intended

As reading the Powertech forum for three minutes will indicate, players feel the AP spec deals significantly lower damage than the PyroTech spec. Spamming Rail Shots every few seconds with the up to 90% armor bypass (while venting heat at the same time) is difficult for the current Advanced Prototype to compete against.

However, I want to also add that survivability is an issue for the class. Where PyroTechs get Energy Rebounder and Automated Defenses, both of which can help a lot with survivability in longer fights, the Advanced Prototype instead gets Power Armor (which is good for its location in the tree) and Stabilized Armor (which is amazing since we get stunlocked all the time, but doesn't do anything when we aren't getting stunned). Furthermore, because the PyroTech can operate at a slightly outside-of-melee range, ideal for kiting Jedi and Sith, Scoundrels and Operatives, he in turn gains some bonus survivability.

Still, both the PyroTech and Advanced Prototype are fairly squishy despite donning heavy armor, and it seems the route the AP is supposed to take is that of a more a defensively-minded, unkiteable melee juggernaut to the PyroTech's ranged kiter playstyle.

A trend I've noticed about tank ACs is that they have less control powers than do the other ACs, ESPECIALLY the stealth and healer ACs (keep in mind that Shadow/Assassin were stealth DPS before they were redesigned to be tank ACs; they are exempt from this rule). This would make sense if armor rating made more of a difference in both PvE (but healing + 60 sec sleep > ~20% more mitigation in heroics) and PvP (way too much elemental and internal damage flying around). AP (and PyroTech) should gain some extra defensive boons to make up for the lesser control. For example, imagine if Retractable Blade reduced enemy accuracy and alacrity per tick, up to 5 stacks. More debuffs would help the AP shine.

|G02| Movement speed boosts < ability to slow/root/stun in PvP

The 15% movement speed boost is fairly standard for melee-oriented DPS specs who lack a charge ability. However, four of said specs are also stealth DPS specs, and the stealth abilities achieve the same purpose as a charge: gap closing.

So, a 15% movement speed boost from HEGC is inconsequential when you are a burly Mandalorian-armored warrior because people will see you miles away and just stunlock and kite you to death (if you choose to save your Hydraulic Overrides for maintaining melee distance). It would be great for Advanced Prototype to have a real gap closer such as Jet Charge, but it would be even better if Advanced Prototype could actually maintain gaps with a slow while using HEGC. Instead, they have to spec into Shieldtech and use IGC for the slow and mitigation because the AP spec and HEGC fail to offer enough PvP survival and control.

|G03| Procs are unreliable and/or ineffective

Flame Barrage, Charged Gauntlets, and Prototype Flame Thrower define the identity of the tree. Unfortunately their procs (chances, effects, or both) are way too unreliable or ineffective, especially before you get Immolate.

Furthermore, since the spec does not receive any cooldown refreshes, Heat-free Rocket Punches and auto-crit Rail Shot procs are often wasted; the cooldowns for the abilities that benefit from those procs often do not refresh until after combat is over.

|G04| Entire tree utterly useless in PvE+PvP until 20/21 points, still weak until you get Immolate

If I were to reroll a new Powertech, I would not spec AP before level 40.

This is a melee-centric DPS tree of a base ranged-centric class that cannot effectively melee in PvP until you get Hydraulic Overrides (21 points/level 30). On the other hand, Scoundrels, Operatives, Assassins, and Shadows get to melee at level 10 thanks to stealth and their jobs become easier at level 20 via in-combat stealth and increased stealth levels. In essence, the AP (Tactics for Vanguard) spec is the only melee spec in the game without a gap closer. This is the Enhancement Shaman/Paladin dilemma all over again.

Solution: Get rid of Hydraulic Overrides, make Jet Charge baseline, change 21 pointers for Shieldtech and AP. As much as I love HO, I'd rather have a more meaningful way to close distances and earlier into leveling, especially on groups of enemies to unload Flame Thrower attacks.

Until you get Hydraulic Overrides (PvP) or Prototype Flame Thrower (PvE and somewhat PvP), any points you spend in AP will have been better spent in Shieldtech and PyroTech. For that same point investment during level up, you could have much more control, damage, and/or survivability if you chose to spec into those trees instead, making the leveling process much smoother as a non-AP.

The issue is that this a melee DPS spec who has way too many early utility talents that delay its DPS bonuses until higher in the tree (via Prototype Flame Thrower, which has its own set of problems) and who cannot genuinely melee in PvP until you obtain Hydraulic Overrides.

You have no real reason to use Flame Burst (obtained at level 10) as an Advanced Prototype until Flame Barrage, which requires 15/16 points (i.e. level 25/26), because you are better off using that Heat for Unload and Flamethrower (both channeled attacks that work contrary to AP's mobile melee playstyle). On the other hand, Shieldtech and PyroTech gain great utility from Flame Burst as soon as even one single point is invested in their trees.

Finally, the difference between 30 AP and 31 AP (with Immolate) is night and day. Immolate is the highest damage attack in your arsenal, has a mere 8 Heat cost, and grants you a Heat-free Rocket Punch every single time via Flame Barrage. I love game-changing 31 pointers, but AP can't even hold its own without its 31 pointer unlike most other skill trees, especially the Shieldtech and PyroTech.

Skill Tree Issues and Suggestions:

|S01| Prototype Burn Enhancers: Also affects Retractable Blade (and possibly Rocket Punch)

Every tree focuses on using one specific non-fire attack and, save for AP, properly supports that ability with amazing talents. PyroTech obviously caters towards Rail Shot, for instance. And while every tree utilizes Rocket Punch on cooldown, Shieldtech clearly favors the ability because it ties its cylinder's DoT to the attack and refreshes the ability's cooldown upon shielding an attack.

AP tries to make Retractable Blade a staple ability to the spec but makes a poor effort to increase its power; APs try not to use RB unless there are no other DoTs/CCs on the target to exploit for Rail Shot purposes. I believe we should make Retractable Blade THE primary attack for the spec by improving its power as early as tier 1.

I propose Prototype Burn Enhancers should also increase the crit chance of Retractable Blade and its ticks or affect melee attacks as a whole (Retractable Blade, RB DoT, and Rocket Punch).

|S02| Prototype Electro Surge: Remove another 5 seconds from cooldown

In short, the tank ACs seem to have much weaker control than healer ACs due to their mitigation advantage, but then that advantage is undermined thanks to all the internal and kinetic damage being thrown around in PvP. In essence, DPS-specced healers are in a much better position than DPS-specced tanks.

Given the above observation combined with the fact that most other classes' 60 second cooldown stuns can be reduced to 45 seconds via talents, I feel Prototype Electro Surge should also reduce Electro Dart's cooldown by 7.5/15 seconds instead of 5/10 seconds. This is especially important during level up (since we don't get Carbonize until level 46!).

|S03| Prototype Cylinders: Ion Gas Cylinder bonus instead reduces enemy damage by 3%

This doesn't affect a DPS AP, but the talent is still in the tree so I figure it makes sense to address this. The 8% bonus to IGC damage is minimal and is nothing a tank would ever care to dump 6 points into AP to obtain.

Let's make it more attractive: Prototype Cylinders reduces the damage of targets afflicted by Ion Gas Cylinder by 3% instead of increases the cylinder's damage by 8%.

|S04| Prototype Cylinder Ventilation + Pneumatic Boots: Add extra benefits to each OR combine both into one talent and create a new talent in same tier

PCV and PB are great talents, but I feel each talent could be improved to offer a little bit more to make HEGC a bit more attractive (4 points spent on talents specific to IGC or CGC offer more benefit at this tier).

I propose that each talent grant the Powertech some sort of defensive boost on top of their current bonuses. I'd like to see a passive Combat Technique/Dark Charge-style passive HoT (could be added to PCV) as well as an internal/elemental damage mitigation boost (makes sense to add to PB since both bonuses would be more PvP-centric).

|S05| Flame Barrage: Flame Sweep now has a 30% chance to proc this

Until you get Immolate, this talent is basically useless. The amount of Heat you spend spamming Flame Burst just to get a free Rocket Punch is better spent on Unload (even in PvP because it does more damage) and even Missile Blast (for PvE knockdown into a Shoulder Slam/Rail Shot).

I feel the AP could greatly benefit if Flame Sweep, just like Flame Burst, had a 30% chance to proc a Heat-free Rocket Punch. Since that means 30% on each target damaged, Flame Sweep could almost guarantee a Heat-free Rocket Punch if used within a group of four enemies (it would be ~76% chance for 24 Heat, much better than 30% chance for 16 Heat).

|S06| Serrated Blades: Also increases armor penetration against afflicted targets

Other than the 60% armor pen for Rail Shot, this tree has no talents at all that increase the damage of Rocket Punch and Retractable Blade's initial strike sizably. Furthermore, PyroTech's Rail Shot is so powerful that it single-handedly is accountable for a major portion of the DPS discrepancy between the two specs: the ability's CD refreshes, it vents 8 heat instead of costing 16 (in ideal situations), it bypasses 90% armor, and it gets 30% crit damage boost.

With an armor pen boost to victims of Retractable Blade's DoT, not only are APs more inclined to use the ability but also we gain a sizable increase to the rest of our primary attacks. As it is now, there's no point using Retractable Blade just like there's no point using Incendiary Missile unless we want to stop door-cappers or if no one else put a DoT on the target for us to exploit.

|S07| Prototype Flame Thrower: Reduce to 3 stacks, each stack also adds slow %, rank 1 = 100% proc but 1/2 effect

Rank 1 is useless (important during leveling up) because it's a 50% chance to gain 1 of 5 stacks. Also, the talent loses value in PvP since you can have your Flame Thrower be interrupted, you can be stunned/knocked away, or enemies can run away while you are channeling, all of which are bad news for a melee DPS spec that relies on this talent.

I propose the following changes: Flame Burst and Flame Sweep grant Prototype Flame Thrower, increasing the channel speed and tick speed of your next Flame Thrower by 16/33% and its damage by 5/10%. Stacks up to 3 times.

This way you trade 20% damage at 5 stacks for the sake of:

1) Gaining a reliable proc at rank 1

2) Worrying about 2 less stacks

3) Increased mobility and reliabilty since you can deal the full damage in only 1.5 seconds (2.25 seconds at rank 1).

|S08| Charged Gauntlets: Each RB tick grants 1 stack of Charged Gauntlets, increasing Rail Shot crit by 20% and crit damage bonus by 6%. Stacks up 5 times.

I love Rail Shot and when it crits it is just glorious. However, 25% chance to proc this talent with those two abilities is very low. On one hand, Rocket Punch has a 9 second cooldown but Retractable Blade has no cooldown; why then do they both have the same chance to charge your gauntlets? Furthermore, the more +crit gear you get, the less valuable this proc becomes.

Either give Rocket Punch a 100% chance to proc Charged Gauntlets or allow Rocket Punch's cooldown to refresh via Flame Barrage (as explained above). A Heat reduction and/or Surge boost and/or guaranteed 100% accuracy to Rail Shot via Charged Gauntlets would also be very welcome.

|S09| Kolto Vents: 10% over 5 seconds after Vent Heat, also reduces Kolto Overload cooldown to 2 minutes (from 3 minutes)

7% max HP healed is great, especially for a heavy armor wearer, but 10 seconds is way too slow, especially since the talent is tied to an ability with a 2 minute cooldown. For how high this talent is, this should be 7% over 5 seconds.

|S10| Stabilized Armor: Also reduces cooldown of Carbonize by 2/4 seconds for each second you are stunned or incapacitated

Mimicking how PyroTech's upper tier talents reduce the cooldown of Energy Shield and Kolto Overload via a proc, I'd like to see Carbonize improved similarly within AP. This would cement AP's role as a close combat disruptor (and the control would in turn improve its lackluster defenses in PvP).

|S11| Prototype Weapon Systems: Also increases RB and Flame Thrower crit damage bonus

I think that says it all. If Retractable Blade and Flame Thrower are so important to the spec, we need to increase their crit damage.

The equivalent talents in Shieldtech and PyroTech affect fewer abilities, yes, but they affect the ability that is getting its cooldown refreshed every few seconds (Rocket Punch for ST, Rail Shot for PyroTech). Since AP doesn't refresh cooldowns, I don't see an issue allowing Prototype Weapon Systems affect five abilities (to Flame Surge's two and Firebug's four).

The major issues with AP, the condensed version:

Ion gas cyllinder is required for survivability and guard.

The big reasons to go AP (increased combat mobility and heat management) are tied to HEGC which is currently abysmal.

Retractable blade does lackluster damage for the focus the AP tree has on it.

Flamethrower is nigh impossible to use effectively in pvp in its current incarnation.

Pyrotech does everything AP does better except the afformentioned combat mobility and heat management. But that's somewhat rectified by degauss and shortened vent heat timer.

In many instances shieldtech gets greater mobility in the form of jet charge and if you with to take it, an extra 30% movement speed after using jet charge.

S3 - Prototype Cylinder Ventilation: passive Heat vent is boring (Superheated Rail is fun)

 

PCV offers some good Heat venting, which when combined with <=16 Heat abilities is pretty amazing. However, Superheated Rail's synergy with Prototype Particle Accelerator is a simply more fun mechanic as a DPS spec; I wish something similar could be copied to the AP to make it more enjoyable and encourage doing something other than Flame Burst all day, using Rocket Punch and Immolate on cooldown.

I'll take reliable over fun any day. PCV is an excellent talent IMO, I wouldnt change it unless that change came out to more frequent heat venting.

S4 - Hitman: encourages more Quelling, doesn't reduce Heat cost to compensate

 

Quell on a 6 second cooldown is amazing; it is by far the strongest control talent AP has, period. However, Quell also costs 8 Heat per use; giving APs the option to Quell more frequently is moot if they aren't going to utilize it because of its Heat cost.

 

This talent should also reduce the cost of Quell by 1 Heat per rank. That means Quell with or without talents, will always generate 1 Heat/sec if used every cooldown (8 second cooldown Quell costs 8 Heat, 7/6 second cooldown Quell with Hitman costs 7/6 Heat).

Definitely agree here, I love the lowered cooldown on quell but the heat cost is rough.

S6 - Prototype Flame Thrower: weak rank 1, weak in PvP

 

Rank 1 is useless (important during leveling up) because it's a 50% chance to gain 1 of 5 stacks. Also, the talent loses value in PvP since you can have your Flame Thrower be interrupted, you can be stunned/knocked away, or enemies can run away while you are channeling, all of which are bad news for a melee DPS spec that relies on this talent.

 

I propose the following changes: Flame Burst and Flame Sweep grant Prototype Flame Thrower, increasing the channel speed and tick speed of your next Flame Thrower by 16/33% and its damage by 5/10%. Stacks up to 3 times.

 

This way you trade 20% damage at 5 stacks for the sake of:

1) Gaining a reliable proc at rank 1

2) Worrying about 2 less stacks

3) Increased mobility and reliabilty since you can deal the full damage in only 1.5 seconds (2.25 seconds at rank 1).

Interesting idea, but I fear that it would cause heat issues. Flamethrower costs 25 heat - normally channeling it over a 3 second duration lets you bleed off most of that heat buildup without having to worry about the cost, but if it were a 1.5 second channel it would lose a lot of efficiency for pve use.

Might work if flame barrage reduced the cost on flamethrower when it procs, that way you could use immolate first and have a no-heat flamethrower cast.

S8 - Kolto Vents: weak for high tier skill, especially compared to equivalent talents in other class trees

 

7% max HP healed is great, especially for a heavy armor wearer, but 10 seconds is way too slow, especially since the talent is tied to an ability with a 2 minute cooldown. For how high this talent is, this should be 7% over 5 seconds.

Agreed, it's a terrible high tier talent. I'd prefer if they changed it so that it worked whenever you vent heat by any means (prototype cylinder ventilation would restore a small amount of health every 6 seconds or so, the vent heat ability would restore a larger amount of health immediately when used, superheated rail would restore some health when it procs, etc.)

I'm a PvE player, and I use AP for my DPS spec (it's an offspec, normally I'm shieldtech/tank). From that point of view, it seems to me that the largest issues with AP right now are a slight lack of sustained DPS and reliance on procs.

Retractable blade needs a serious damage buff, even if it's only to the DoT effect. All of the tier 5 1 point talents are terrible, and other than the heat venting through PCV, high energy gas cylinder is terrible.

The major issues with AP, the condensed version:

 

Ion gas cyllinder is required for survivability and guard.

 

The big reasons to go AP (increased combat mobility and heat management) are tied to HEGC which is currently abysmal.

 

Retractable blade does lackluster damage for the focus the AP tree has on it.

 

Flamethrower is nigh impossible to use effectively in pvp in its current incarnation.

 

Pyrotech does everything AP does better except the afformentioned combat mobility and heat management. But that's somewhat rectified by degauss and shortened vent heat timer.

 

In many instances shieldtech gets greater mobility in the form of jet charge and if you with to take it, an extra 30% movement speed after using jet charge.

IGC is required because AP lacks survivability despite being a melee spec who lacks a gap closer and escape maneuvers. You should not be guarding if you are a AP - you are only asking for trouble. Some debuffs in the AP tree that reduce enemy damage would be well received without overpowering the spec.

Retractable Blade does low damage because outside of AP the Powertech does not do bleed damage. However, the Powertech has multiple talents increase fire damage, which helps PyroTech's burn DoTs a hell lot. PyroTech has better DoTs and, because of Rail Shot CD refresh, better burst. It's nuts. I think a simple fix would be to also increase bleed damage with all the talents that increase fire damage (Intimidation, Prototype Burn Enhancers) as well as buff Serrated Blades.

Not commenting on the rest because they just affirm my previous points (thanks for the support).

I appreciate your effort and agree with most of your points. Having another dps option would bring a lot to my PT experience.

AP already is a good DPS option, it's just not as good as it should be. You should spec AP if you enjoy it; if you are a good player you will still top PvP charts and do amazingly well in flashpoints and operations. The only problem is that if you apply that same skillset to PyroTech, you do even better.

AP needs buffs and some tweaks, but it is still viable in its current incarnation. It's main issue revolves around the fact that it hasn't been changed dramatically enough along with the other trees.

I'm a good player, rank 63 and well known by the opposition.

Skill can take pyro to a level that AdvP cannot reach. Mostly for two reasons, greater range and rebounder. While dps is an issue, I think the difference could be tolerated if AdvP had greater survivability.

ps. I'm always in a pvp context because that's all I do.

I'll take reliable over fun any day. PCV is an excellent talent IMO, I wouldnt change it unless that change came out to more frequent heat venting.

PCV is a stellar talent for sure. It's just that it makes Heat management kind of easy, maybe too easy. I'd like if I had to work for that Heat venting a little bit more via ability synergies and chains.

Definitely agree here, I love the lowered cooldown on quell but the heat cost is rough.

It's unfortunate because 8 Heat ~ 1 Trooper round. I don't know how they could solve the same problem for the Trooper if the Trooper does indeed have the same problem.

Interesting idea, but I fear that it would cause heat issues. Flamethrower costs 25 heat - normally channeling it over a 3 second duration lets you bleed off most of that heat buildup without having to worry about the cost, but if it were a 1.5 second channel it would lose a lot of efficiency for pve use.

 

Might work if flame barrage reduced the cost on flamethrower when it procs, that way you could use immolate first and have a no-heat flamethrower cast.

I didn't want to overload Prototype Flame Thrower, but yes I wanted to stick in a Heat reduction proc.

Maybe Flame Barrage could also make the next Flame Thrower free, so you have to choose either Rocket Punch or Flame Thrower to consume the Flame Barrage buff (chances are one is going to be on cooldown anyway so you can just use the other ability).

No need for a cooldown refresh on Rocket Punch if we take this route.

Agreed, it's a terrible high tier talent. I'd prefer if they changed it so that it worked whenever you vent heat by any means (prototype cylinder ventilation would restore a small amount of health every 6 seconds or so, the vent heat ability would restore a larger amount of health immediately when used, superheated rail would restore some health when it procs, etc.)

Makes sense, especially given how high it is in the tree. I'd prefer if the talent was combined with Power Armor in tier 2 AP (so it becomes a 2 rank talent) so that AP can get a more interesting talent in its place higher in the tree while allowing the other trees to benefit..

I'm a PvE player, and I use AP for my DPS spec (it's an offspec, normally I'm shieldtech/tank). From that point of view, it seems to me that the largest issues with AP right now are a slight lack of sustained DPS and reliance on procs.

 

Retractable blade needs a serious damage buff, even if it's only to the DoT effect. All of the tier 5 1 point talents are terrible, and other than the heat venting through PCV, high energy gas cylinder is terrible.

HEGC isn't so bad; 8% flame and bleed damage is quite a boost. I just wish it did a little bit more. The passivity of the cylinder is really boring and doesn't setup any interesting synergies.

My suggestions. I'd prefer all delivered at once but at least a few of these have to get implemented -

1. First and foremost, Prototype Flamethrower needs to be heavily modified. Flamethrower is terrible in PvP, with even the slightest bit of latency it's extremely hard to hit someone - with 40-50 latency I cannot tell you how many times I have blown fire in somebody's face at point blank range only see no damage delivered whatsoever. Furthermore, since PTs are a mostly-instant ability class, FT is the only ability we really have to interrupt - and so it gets immediately interrupted nearly every use. People might argue to CC somebody before a usage of it, but honestly such a core part of the damage of AP, and virtually the only respectable burst damage, should not require a CC to land on somebody. And that is pending the CC isn't broken.

Recommendation - Make the talent double the width of the cone effect so as to deal with latency issues, and halve the time it takes to cast, making it a 1.5 second channel when fully talented with 5 stacks of the buff. Keep the +50% damage.

2. Add +30% crit damage to Rail Shot in the spec. Charged Gauntlets ads minimal damage on RS crits when the crits are extremely unremarkable to begin with. Furthermore make Charged Gauntlets make the next RS *free* in addition to making it crit.

3. Double the damage of RB's bleed effect, or double the initial kinetic damage. Honestly this is not adding a lot of damage, this ability looks and sounds awesome, but is very underwhelming. You're stabbing someone in the face ffs, make it hurt a bit more.

4. Add .5 seconds to Carbonize's stun effect (yes I know we have a pvp set bonus that does this, we should keep that too) and lower Carbonize's CD by 10 seconds.

5. Kolto Vents needs to proc whenever you lose heat from Prototype Cylinder Ventilation. Maybe 5% health regen'd over the 6 seconds in between each heat vent. That's less than 1% HP per second, and if you think regenning 10% health (about 1.6k for most geared PTs) over twelve seconds is OP you need to get out right now. That's not much at all, and badly needed survivability for this spec.

These changes should roughly bring AP in line with Pyrotech's outright murderous power. AP will still do less damage than Pyrotech, but with the utility of AP these changes should still keep it competitive. As it is now a Pyrotech will outplay and outkill an AP of equal gear 100% of the time.

Not to derail the thread here,

But is this more of a "Issues with PVP Thread" ?

Since it seems most of it is geared towards it (as well as the replies).

I believe, SIM wise, AP does only a few point difference between Pyro in PvE which would make it OK I would think.

Not to derail the thread here,

 

But is this more of a "Issues with PVP Thread" ?

 

Since it seems most of it is geared towards it (as well as the replies).

 

I believe, SIM wise, AP does only a few point difference between Pyro in PvE which would make it OK I would think.

There are around four points I make that are PvP specific, but all the aspects of the spec affect both PvE and PvP. AP is being found to do much less DPS in operations and HM FPs compared to PyroTech and I believe the heavy proc reliance and weak Retractable Blade among other things pointed above are the cause of this discrepancy.

In solo and small group PvE the AP is also fairly squishy since he doesn't burst as hard as PyroTech or have as much mitigation/control as Shieldtech. Where a JK can charge in and stun in an AOE, an AP has to run in and take blows to the face until his ED goes off. Where a JK has Blade Storm for a ranged damage + CC, the AP has no answer. On the other hand, PyroTechs can kill people well before closing melee distance and have Energy Rebounder, Automated Defenses and other such tools to deal with incoming damage and reduce downtime.

Everything is related. If there's a problem in PvP, chances are other is a similar problem with the same talent or ability in PvP. Prototype Flame Thrower comes to mind - in PvP people run out of range and getting 5 stacks is kind of annoying. In PvE enemies tend to die before you get 5 stacks or they stun or interrupt you anyway.

I can keep going on but I think most people will get my point by now.

I believe, SIM wise, AP does only a few point difference between Pyro in PvE which would make it OK I would think.

Unfortunately no, those few things they do differently cause a massive difference in damage. The two largest things they do differently are -

1. Resetting the CD of Rail Shot. This skill is largely unimpressive as AP, because it does not receive a +30% crit damage bonus. As Pyro, with their high tech crit chance, this skill commonly has a 35% or more crit chance in decent gear/agent buff, and can easily crit for 4k unbuffed because of +30% RS crit damage in the Pyro tree. When you have the potential to use this ability 4+ times in 10 seconds, which is not that uncommon I might add, Pyro's damage starts to skyrocket ahead of AP's.

2. Combustible Gas Cylinder. This ability procs off Flame Burst and Rail Shot resets it, meaning both of these skills, which are the two most commonly used skills as Pyro, automatically gain the benefit of the damage of a CGC tick. In decent gear, this is roughly 600 damage but can crit for up to 1.2k+ on enemies below 30% health. Having the majority of your abilities do an extra 600-1.2k damage every single time you use those abilities adds up extremely quickly in PvE situations. Even in PvP, getting only 4-5 CGC procs from abilities is an easy extra 3k damage in less than 10 seconds.

I would *LOVE* if this tree was tweaked.

.. have ANY of the devs mentioned ANYTHING about this? I am incredibly worried that it isn't even on their radar despite the amount of threads started about it.

Powertechs are few in numbers (at least .. we used to be.. seems to be a lot more now).... and the portion of us who are looking for something other than tanking/big numbers are even fewer.

Pay attteeennnntttiiiooonnn toooo thhiiiissssssss, deeevvvvvssss!

Think that will work .... ? :-/

I would *LOVE* if this tree was tweaked.

 

.. have ANY of the devs mentioned ANYTHING about this? I am incredibly worried that it isn't even on their radar despite the amount of threads started about it.

 

Powertechs are few in numbers (at least .. we used to be.. seems to be a lot more now).... and the portion of us who are looking for something other than tanking/big numbers are even fewer.

 

 

Pay attteeennnntttiiiooonnn toooo thhiiiissssssss, deeevvvvvssss!

 

 

Think that will work .... ? :-/

What bothers me is that PyroTech was originally the consistent DPS, medium-ranged kiter spec and that Advanced Prototype was the burst DPS, mobile melee warrior spec. Because of the Rail Shot and Flame Burst changes, the PyroTech stole that burst DPS identity. This is extra sad because Immolate is not only great for amazing burst damage kills but is also easily the coolest looking and sounding 31 pointer in the entire game; Thundering Blast can suck it.

I'm glad PyroTech is finally good compared to what it was three to four months ago (Firebug was half as good as AP is now...and I leveled as Firebug between level 30 and 40...try to imagine that kind of torture) but I also feel it kind of overstepped some boundaries.

Regardless, I hope some more people provide their input on this thread, even people who never gave AP a second thought. I want to see different perspectives as to what we can do to increase the power and viability of this unique spec and playstyle.

Alright before I start,

I have a lvl 28 Guardian. An Operative lvl 16, a lvl 19 Commando and my Powertech is lvl 42.

I am a hybrid of mostly AP and ST.

In pvp, I am mostly top or #1 for damage and protection, last night I was #1 with 0 deaths.

Learn to play your class, I see a lot of threads of "best rotation?"

There is none. I use all ranged attacks when targets run away, and I never rush opponents, I stay at ranged and fire all my attacks, if they decide to close in, bad idea b/c of flamethrower attacks, blades, punch etc. Usually they will run. We are not "crowd control"

We have a melee ranged interupt on a low cooldown, a ranged stun, and a ranged grapple, we can speed up with h/boots or our canister mods.

If you ask me, if **** changes we will get nerfed.

Use all of your skills, get your relics, datacrons, gear, and learn how to switch your canisters.

Yes. I said it. Your supposed to switch them out, its a channeled spell, yes. You have to stay mobile yes, but they are our buffs.

Buff one, armor

Buff two, damage

Buff three, movement mods,heat mods, dmg.

Learn to play your class. All classes are tricky at mid or low level.

I've just rescently changed from Adv.P to Pyro simply because I had enough: The main issues for me being this:

Survivability and damage in pvp.

I loved the way it played out though so would change back if this gets better.

Movement speed boosts didn't feel like doing a difference.

I don't agree on it playing similar to Pyro as I I felt I should up close and personal with Adv.P, which I don't with Pyro (As it involved getting Immolate off for free rocketpunches and so fort..).

"Procs are unreliable and/or ineffective; too much downtime (leads to DPS loss)" - Agreed.

Prototype Electro Surge: Make it 10/20 sec. reduction, and let it change place with Pneumatic Boots). This since we don't have that much CCs.

Prototype cylinder: Should grant all attacks 12% more damage from using the HEC - We lack behind in damage.

Power Armor: Should exchange place with Prototype Flame Thrower, and grant 15/30% damage reduction instead, should be a HEC only then - We are too ssquishy as it is.

Kolto Vents: Should grant 10% health over 2 Sec - Again .. Too squishy.

Charged gauntles: RP and RB gives 100% chance that next RS deals 25% more damage - less radom change please, but overall better damage thank you very much.

Prototype Flame Thrower: Make it an instant attack (all damage) when stacked with 5. Or reduce it to 3 stacks of 45% more damage - Close to impossible to use for any good in pvp as it is.

Pneumatic Boots: should be 10/20% movement speed, due to lack og snares and roots to keep up.

This is just random numbers thrown up in the air, I know that, but again it is just to show what I think could work for the Adv.P talents, to perform better in pvp and pve.

Change Adv.P into someting like this and I would change back in a heartbeat (love Immolate and free rocketpunch).

Enjoy. Feedback welcome.

I would rather them take smaller steps then just buffing or changing everything at once.

It just leads to over powered classes. And i dont want my AP to be nerfed into oblivion right after it gets buffed.

After that is said i do agree that the AP could use some help.

Especialls Flamethrower and Retractable Blade could use some help.

My first idea would be to make FT useable on the move and increase its cone.

Perhaps the movement part could be added to Pneumatic Boots Rank 2.

The cone part could be added to Prototype Flame Thrower. For every stack your cone gets bigger.

My second idea would be to let Flame Barrage effect Rtractable Blade instead of Rocket Punch.

My third and final idea would be to let Charged Gauntlets effect Flame Thrower over its full duration.

I really enjoy AP and would love to see it be more in line with other builds.

Free bump.

Really nice thread. I agree =]

I play mostly as Prototype as i really want it to work and as my gear gets better im hoping for improvement, i have a fair few rakata bits now rest columi... but then i try Pyro again and i do so much more damage. Makes me sad cos i like the prototype playstyle better.

One main problem is the flamethrower stacks and then use. 5 stacks is alot to get... and then when u use Flamethrower either mob is dead, player moved out or interupts it, boss does knockback or need to run from fire... so in most situations you dont get to use the ability as you would like.

If the Devs just made one change to AP Pt at the moment, please make Flamethrower stacks 3 and channel 1.5sec (same damage ofc) This will let us get it off earlier in our rotation and not suffer so bad when it is interupted or we have to break and run, as most often i only get to channel for about a second before its interupted anyway or i have to run so im not getting the benefit from all the work i have done to get FIVE!! stacks.

Recommendation - Make the talent double the width of the cone effect so as to deal with latency issues, and halve the time it takes to cast, making it a 1.5 second channel when fully talented with 5 stacks of the buff. Keep the +50% damage.

How bout make it usable while moving instead, so it fits better to mobile spec?

Im a big fan of advanced prototype and been playing it most of my time at lvl50. Ive switched to Pyrotech now though... The diffrence in is black and white... Pyro destroys stuff... Proto tickles em. I sugested earlier that Proto needs 3 stacks instead of the current 5 to make it more viable and to be able to use flamthrower more, but i think it needs more than that to compete. Thermal detonator and Railshot can do around 9K plus damage in seconds. My Railshot alone is doing 4.8k quite often vs people in pvp and quite abit more vs mobs. As prototype my biggest hit with immolate was 3.7k then abit of a lackluster 2.2k flameburst.

Lets keep this thread alive and hope changes to Prototype will come with 1.2