I understand. People want Project and Shock to be equal, but the change is one of the few times that I'd say keep the animation over shortening the length. Why not lengthen Shock than? The new Lacerate for Ops is AWESOME, exactly what I was looking for, but this seriously doesn't look like much is happening with the animation. Removing one of the best animations in the game.

From watching the clip, Project is faster...but still not instant. Using shock on my SI sorc, instant

really is instant.

I want to hope that in the end, we will get Force Burst, the move that Ashara has.

Ashara can then use the new Project.

they should keep project the way that it is.....

and to make up for the shock thing.... they should make tele throw a stun instead of a slow

I understand. People want Project and Shock to be equal, but the change is one of the few times that I'd say keep the animation over shortening the length. Why not lengthen Shock than? The new Lacerate for Ops is AWESOME, exactly what I was looking for, but this seriously doesn't look like much is happening with the animation. Removing one of the best animations in the game.

 

For the people that want to keep the old animation and just have the damage tick instantly, I have some basic questions...So what did you want, to take a ridiculous, junk conjuring animation, that conjured inappropriate junk half the time, and make it even more ridiculous by having the damage tick before the junk hit? So when I saw the junk coming and I stealthed before it hit, I should still take magic damage from the magic junk? Or when I saw it coming and I popped a defensive CD, I should still take unmitigated damage from the magic junk even though I popped defenses before it hit? Can't you see the stupidity and poor design in that? Really, you should think about these things because they are obvious questions that pop up from what you claim you want. They should show you just how goofy that approach is....

From watching the clip, Project is faster...but still not instant. Using shock on my SI sorc, instant

really is instant.

I want to hope that in the end, we will get Force Burst, the move that Ashara has.

Ashara can then use the new Project.

Great idea.

From watching the clip, Project is faster...but still not instant. Using shock on my SI sorc, instant

really is instant.

I want to hope that in the end, we will get Force Burst, the move that Ashara has.

Ashara can then use the new Project.

I do agree that the Force Burst looks better, but from the Dev posts, it appears that Project was one of the abilities that, on the server side, had delayed damage; apparently it has now been changed to act immediately (but display later).

I guess it's going to take some analysis of the logs to see if it "really" acts instantly.

For the people that want to keep the old animation and just have the damage tick instantly, I have some basic questions...So what did you want, to take a ridiculous, junk conjuring animation, that conjured inappropriate junk half the time, and make it even more ridiculous by having the damage tick before the junk hit? So when I saw the junk coming and I stealthed before it hit, I should still take magic damage from the magic junk? Or when I saw it coming and I popped a defensive CD, I should still take unmitigated damage from the magic junk even though I popped defenses before it hit? Can't you see the stupidity and poor design in that? Really, you should think about these things because they are obvious questions that pop up from what you claim you want. They should show you just how goofy that approach is....

 

 

 

Great idea.

I liked the old animation. It felt powerful and I enjoyed seeing that random astro-droid fly out of the ground and slam into mobs. I don't pvp, and I can see where it could get annoying in PVP. However, from a PVE position the old animation itself was better. This is because we already have two abilities that are basically, force bubbles being thrown at people, Disturbance and Turbulence.Having yet another ability that looks like this is gonna make playing my Telekinetics Sage pretty boring. I loved the old animation because it just FELT better using it, than this. Besides, BW didn't really even fix the problem, they just took the easy out made the animation shorter instead of solving the base issue, server side lag.

One of the above posts mention a plausible solution and I'm gonna roll on that. Maybe BW should keep project how it is, but just give us a new ability that mirrors Shock. Personally, and again, I don't PVP, I don't see why everyone is complaining. Sages are given a stun, so use it, then cast project, and the problem is fixed until the CD expires, and I believe, not sure though, that there is a talent that reduces that CD.

I know the lag doesn't really effect me, since I really only use like 5 abilities when I dps. I put up my DoTs, use Turbulence, Then Telekinetic throw, Project, Disturbance, repeat, renewing DoTs as necessary. I don't use anything else at all. I know for shadows that project is their main ability, while throw is a sages. All I'm trying to get across here, is that the animation is fine for PVE. So, why not just delete the shared tree as in the shadow talents and add a PVP tree. Since then you'd have talents and abilities specifically designed for PVP combat. (I say shadow since you'd then have stealth).

I haven't seen inappropriate junk pop up on project yet, but I could see how that could be annoying.

Other than that, I love the project animation the way that it is. It is the only animation (at least from what I've seen so far) that actually CHANGES. I love how an R2 unit or something just pops up every once in a while! It makes the game much less repetitive, at least in my opinion.

.... Sages are given a stun, so use it, then cast project, and the problem is fixed until the CD expires, and I believe, not sure though, that there is a talent that reduces that CD.

 

... So, why not just delete the shared tree as in the shadow talents and add a PVP tree. Since then you'd have talents and abilities specifically designed for PVP combat ..

Hi. If I am understanding correctly you are suggesting that sages use stun in pvp then project to avoid the problem with the damage delay in old project. If this is indeed what you are proposing, it has serious problems. Best CD you are going to get with force stun, talented, is 50 sec. Project is on a 6 sec timer. So you have stun off cool down for maybe 1 in 4 or 5 times that you use it, depending on your rotations. In addition, in pvp, there is this thing called a resolve timer that can render your opponent immune to cc's (stuns), in theory, though it seems buggy. So what you are suggesting is wildly unworkable.

As far as reworks of trees and adding pvp trees...well I would guess that is so far out of scope at this point, especially given the class mirror paradigm that BW is trying to follow, to also be completely out of the question - although some games have gone that way.

I haven't seen inappropriate junk pop up on project yet, but I could see how that could be annoying.

 

Other than that, I love the project animation the way that it is. It is the only animation (at least from what I've seen so far) that actually CHANGES. I love how an R2 unit or something just pops up every once in a while! It makes the game much less repetitive, at least in my opinion.

Well, Im not sure how far you have gotten in the game, but as soon as you get off Tython and do the Esseles, and start seeing rocks fly up out of starship decks all the time, it becomes pretty obvious...lol.

Hi. If I am understanding correctly you are suggesting that sages use stun in pvp then project to avoid the problem with the damage delay in old project. If this is indeed what you are proposing, it has serious problems. Best CD you are going to get with force stun, talented, is 50 sec. Project is on a 6 sec timer. So you have stun off cool down for maybe 1 in 4 or 5 times that you use it, depending on your rotations. In addition, in pvp, there is this thing called a resolve timer that can render your opponent immune to cc's (stuns), in theory, though it seems buggy. So what you are suggesting is wildly unworkable.

 

As far as reworks of trees and adding pvp trees...well I would guess that is so far out of scope at this point, especially given the class mirror paradigm that BW is trying to follow, to also be completely out of the question - although some games have gone that way.

 

 

 

Well, Im not sure how far you have gotten in the game, but as soon as you get off Tython and do the Esseles, and start seeing rocks fly up out of starship decks all the time, it becomes pretty obvious...lol.

I honestly don't care about throwing a rock from a starship's floor. I really don't. The animation is Powerful, that's what I like about it. The new animations is horrible. If they wanted to change what was thrown, then good, if not, oh well. With my suggestion about the stun, as I said, I don't pvp, and was only offering it as a once a minute solution. Not the end all beat all way to play.

I honestly don't care about throwing a rock from a starship's floor. I really don't. The animation is Powerful, that's what I like about it. The new animations is horrible. If they wanted to change what was thrown, then good, if not, oh well. With my suggestion about the stun, as I said, I don't pvp, and was only offering it as a once a minute solution. Not the end all beat all way to play.

Well, ok, but surely you can see there are many other considerations. And power or a powerful "feeling" is subjective and can certainly be accomplished in other ways. Also, how many times did a jedi throw a rock in 6 movies? None. Or initiate throwing anything at a target for that matter? Anakin...twice...in a Vader preview. Luke used choke about as often. Basing the whole jedi consular class look and feel...their signature moves...on junk, rocks and pebbles, is just wildly inappropriate for the IP.

Like I said, there are other considerations. Jedi look and jedi feel. That is why people have been looking for alternatives to the project animation since I was in beta early last summer, and probably before...every build there were multiple posts asking for a change to it...add in the delay mechanics issue that gives your opponent time to react...and well, its been a deal killer for a long time.

Well, ok, but surely you can see there are many other considerations. And power or a powerful "feeling" is subjective and can certainly be accomplished in other ways. Also, how many times did a jedi throw a rock in 6 movies? None. Or initiate throwing anything at a target for that matter? Anakin...twice...in a Vader preview. Luke used choke about as often. Basing the whole jedi consular class look and feel...their signature moves...on junk, rocks and pebbles, is just wildly inappropriate for the IP.

 

Like I said, there are other considerations. Jedi look and jedi feel. That is why people have been looking for alternatives to the project animation since I was in beta early last summer, and probably before...every build there were multiple posts asking for a change to it...add in the delay mechanics issue that gives your opponent time to react...and well, its been a deal killer for a long time.

If your sole basis for changing the animation is the movies then I personally feel that it's irrelevant. All this take place thousands of years before the movies, so who's to say that Jedi didn't throw rocks way back when. This sin't the same time frame as the movies so therefor any arguments about how the game doesn't match up to the movies is pure wishing. The movies are great, but that isn't why I started playing this game. I play it because I wanted an MMO that is different from the others. Not WoW or RIFT (Rift, which, claimed to not be a WoW clone and then turned into one). Most games lack a powerful feeling a connection when casting or delivering a blow. I was so satisfied when I first used Project I was instantly hooked on the from then on. I don't care if its like the movies, because it has nothing to do with the movies. I want gameplay that I can feel and have a connection with, not feel isolated from. That's why I don't like Disturbance's animation, its a ball of light, woopdie-freaking doo, special.

The delay mechanics are only really relevant in PVP. Which, since I don't PVP I don't really care about. All BW had to do was make the damage felt when the button is pushed, but keep the animation how it was. Therefore, the damage is done and we still get the powerful feeling of picking up a boulder and hurling it at someone. Problem Solved, the other player has taken damage and we get to keep the animation. As far as PVE is concerned its not really gonna effect your overall dps at all, and your burst dps will only slightly be effected because of the GCD.

Therefore I repeat, leave the animation alone, its fine, and we have plenty of other moves that are force and movie Jedi worthy. Just make the damage instant, but keep the GCD long animation.

If your sole basis for changing the animation is the movies then I personally feel that it's irrelevant. All this take place thousands of years before the movies, so who's to say that Jedi didn't throw rocks way back when. This sin't the same time frame as the movies so therefor any arguments about how the game doesn't match up to the movies is pure wishing. The movies are great, but that isn't why I started playing this game. I play it because I wanted an MMO that is different from the others. Not WoW or RIFT (Rift, which, claimed to not be a WoW clone and then turned into one). Most games lack a powerful feeling a connection when casting or delivering a blow. I was so satisfied when I first used Project I was instantly hooked on the from then on. I don't care if its like the movies, because it has nothing to do with the movies. I want gameplay that I can feel and have a connection with, not feel isolated from. That's why I don't like Disturbance's animation, its a ball of light, woopdie-freaking doo, special.

 

The delay mechanics are only really relevant in PVP. Which, since I don't PVP I don't really care about. All BW had to do was make the damage felt when the button is pushed, but keep the animation how it was. Therefore, the damage is done and we still get the powerful feeling of picking up a boulder and hurling it at someone. Problem Solved, the other player has taken damage and we get to keep the animation. As far as PVE is concerned its not really gonna effect your overall dps at all, and your burst dps will only slightly be effected because of the GCD.

 

Therefore I repeat, leave the animation alone, its fine, and we have plenty of other moves that are force and movie Jedi worthy. Just make the damage instant, but keep the GCD long animation.

Basically you are saying you dont care about the IP in an IP game. This is exactly what I would expect from someone that likes the junk chunking, tbh. I care very MUCH about the IP and about the jedi look and feel of the class. If this game wasn't star wars based, I wouldnt be here. Also, PvE is only a part of the game. The overriding concern is the mirror paradigm for the classes. And PvP matters as well.

Also, the different time period argument is very flawed. This game is based on kotor 1 and 2, which are even farther back in the time line than this game, and it meshed VERY well with the movie lore about jedi powers and skills. I played them both many many times. Jedi and sith VERY much matched with there movie successors. No junk chunking or pebble storms. So that argument doesnt work at all. In fact, in those games, the jedi lightside ranged attacks were based on force push variants, EXACTLY like we see jedi predominantly use in the movies for ranged.

Now, here is what happened. They did the inquisitors first and made a palpatine archetype. Then to follow the mirror paradigm, they basically reskinned that sith class and gave us a jedi class that has more in common with sith than jedi. Let's face it, jedi and sith do EXACTLY the same things in this game, just with different skins/animations. That is inherently flawed...but ok. Jedi absorb, reflect, enhance. There are all kinds of ways you can translate this into game mechanics, but what we got was a sith reskinned into jedi. OK, but there is still NO reason to make a SIGNATURE sith skill, one we see every sith in the movies use about 20 times, the basis of the consular class and RUIN the jedi feel of the class with junk, rocks, and pebbles. The IP matters. The lore matters. Dont screw with jedi.

The basic, inescapable truth is that the animation IS NOT fine. It breaks the mirror paradigm. That alone means it has to change. Period. Then it is ridiculous with its inappropriate, environmentally ignorant magic junk conjuring. Strike Two. Then it has very little to do with jedi and a WHOLE LOT to do with sith. Junk chunking was classified as a darkside skill in the first jedi knight games, and for good reason. It has NEVER been classified as a lightside skill or as a jedi signature skill. Never. Strike Three. To try and state there is nothing wrong with it is just pure fallacy.

Think about what you are asking for...you want them to leave the animation alone and make the damage tick before the junk hits. That is a terrible design choice in a game based on cinematic combat. You want effect THEN cause. Damage, then the rock hits. I die, then I see a rock come flying at my corpse? Surely you can appreciate how ridiculous that is...what if the whole game was like that? You die, then the blaster bolt hits you? You flop over dead and then the lightsaber swings at you? Comeon, lets use some common sense. It has to be CAUSE then EFFECT. The damage should NEVER tick before the junk hits. And for the junk to hit it takes TIME to conjure and travel. That is why the animation, which might be ok with an activation timer skill, is not now and NEVER will be appropriate for an instacast skill.

I understand. People want Project and Shock to be equal, but the change is one of the few times that I'd say keep the animation over shortening the length. Why not lengthen Shock than? The new Lacerate for Ops is AWESOME, exactly what I was looking for, but this seriously doesn't look like much is happening with the animation. Removing one of the best animations in the game.

 

Man that is awful. Way to kill a cool animation BW. You couldn't possibly extend the shock animation to match them up, you just had to just kill project's.

Basically you are saying you dont care about the IP in an IP game. This is exactly what I would expect from someone that likes the junk chunking, tbh. I care very MUCH about the IP and about the jedi look and feel of the class. If this game wasn't star wars based, I wouldnt be here. Also, PvE is only a part of the game. The overriding concern is the mirror paradigm for the classes. And PvP matters as well.

 

Also, the different time period argument is very flawed. This game is based on kotor 1 and 2, which are even farther back in the time line than this game, and it meshed VERY well with the movie lore about jedi powers and skills. I played them both many many times. Jedi and sith VERY much matched with there movie successors. No junk chunking or pebble storms. So that argument doesnt work at all. In fact, in those games, the jedi lightside ranged attacks were based on force push variants, EXACTLY like we see jedi predominantly use in the movies for ranged.

 

Now, here is what happened. They did the inquisitors first and made a palpatine archetype. Then to follow the mirror paradigm, they basically reskinned that sith class and gave us a jedi class that has more in common with sith than jedi. Let's face it, jedi and sith do EXACTLY the same things in this game, just with different skins/animations. That is inherently flawed...but ok. Jedi absorb, reflect, enhance. There are all kinds of ways you can translate this into game mechanics, but what we got was a sith reskinned into jedi. OK, but there is still NO reason to make a SIGNATURE sith skill, one we see every sith in the movies use about 20 times, the basis of the consular class and RUIN the jedi feel of the class with junk, rocks, and pebbles. The IP matters. The lore matters. Dont screw with jedi.

 

The basic, inescapable truth is that the animation IS NOT fine. It breaks the mirror paradigm. That alone means it has to change. Period. Then it is ridiculous with its inappropriate, environmentally ignorant magic junk conjuring. Strike Two. Then it has very little to do with jedi and a WHOLE LOT to do with sith. Junk chunking was classified as a darkside skill in the first jedi knight games, and for good reason. It has NEVER been classified as a lightside skill or as a jedi signature skill. Never. Strike Three. To try and state there is nothing wrong with it is just pure fallacy.

 

Think about what you are asking for...you want them to leave the animation alone and make the damage tick before the junk hits. That is a terrible design choice in a game based on cinematic combat. You want effect THEN cause. Damage, then the rock hits. I die, then I see a rock come flying at my corpse? Surely you can appreciate how ridiculous that is...what if the whole game was like that? You die, then the blaster bolt hits you? You flop over dead and then the lightsaber swings at you? Comeon, lets use some common sense. It has to be CAUSE then EFFECT. The damage should NEVER tick before the junk hits. And for the junk to hit it takes TIME to conjure and travel. That is why the animation, which might be ok with an activation timer skill, is not now and NEVER will be appropriate for an instacast skill.

First off I never said PVP didn't matter, ever. Merely that I don't PVP and therefor am not going to assume I know what is best for PVP, so lets leave that one alone. It seems like overall, your concerned with the relationship to the Jedi you see in the movies. While, yes, it would be nice if we had some familiarity with the movies, this is still as seperate entity all tis own, and being different isn't a bad things. (In fact, if you want to play a "movie Jedi" play a Knight. They needed a second Jedi class, so this is what you got. The more movie tied Jedi is the Knight.) The 'junk" throwing as you call it, to me, gives the Jedi Consular a sort of communion with their environment (and thus the forces within those inamnimate things. The Sith threw things more in the movies, so, whos to say Jedi can't throw things more, how it looks is all opinon and we each have our own. I like the way it looked before they changed it for reasons already stated. We're on two differnt ends, and since it is a pure aesthetic decision, we should leave that alone as well.

Moving on to the re-skinning of a Sith, your absolutely correct. I've long said that BW takes the easy way out with fixing Pub issues. Instead of fixing project, they made it shorter, that doesn't really fix the server side lag of project, just minimizes it with a shorter animation. Sith and Jedi are radically different and therefore their moves should be different. So I can understand how they went from a Sith, with mainly force based abilities to a Jedi who uses some elements of nature in their abilities. Class mirroring and balance is important to a games overall performance, put more-so in PVP, which I won't get into, since, as stated above, I don't PVP.

As far as cause and effect are concerned this was meant as a temporary solution, and for not being more clear about that, I apologize. You're right in saying that it would be very annoying, but for a couple months while they work on a true solution, not the BS they are throwing in out faces now, I'd be O.K. with it.

JUST HAD A REVELATION

This might actually work, and I'd like opinions about this.

If anything, they should just keep Project as it is and not call it instant, but give it a 1.5 sec. cast that lasts the duration of animation and GCD. (Or one second, can't remember at the moment.) Then give Disturbance the instant cast. Since it's just a force ball, there is no real animation to speak of and would put it on level with Shock. And while damage caused by either Disturbance or Shock would have to be messed with, this seems a more viable solution after seeing BWs response to this issue. Change the mirrored ability to a different one that can be more easily done as a instant cast.

....

 

JUST HAD A REVELATION

This might actually work, and I'd like opinions about this.

If anything, they should just keep Project as it is and not call it instant, but give it a 1.5 sec. cast that lasts the duration of animation and GCD. (Or one second, can't remember at the moment.) Then give Disturbance the instant cast. Since it's just a force ball, there is no real animation to speak of and would put it on level with Shock. And while damage caused by either Disturbance or Shock would have to be messed with, this seems a more viable solution after seeing BWs response to this issue. Change the mirrored ability to a different one that can be more easily done as a instant cast.

People have been asking for this "revelation" (switching project and disturbance Ani's) for months and months...giving project an activation timer is a definite improvement. Of course the other ideas, which would also work, because they are also replacements with things that are already in the game, include a saber throw replacement and a force burst replacement. But yes, we agree, replacement is the way to go...

FYI, the community kicked around a 50 page thread on possible changes to project and throw...summary has been edited in at the top of the original post...the disturbance switch was one of the suggestions. But thanks for putting some thought into the problem. That is really all I want people to do...look at the mechanics of the game, look at the overriding lore of the movies and the overall look and feel of the class. And think about what you are asking for...and why you are asking for it...lol. Cheers.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=29235

People have been asking for this "revelation" (switching project and disturbance Ani's) for months and months...giving project an activation timer is a definite improvement. Of course the other ideas, which would also work, because they are also replacements with things that are already in the game, include a saber throw replacement and a force burst replacement. But yes, we agree, replacement is the way to go...

 

FYI, the community kicked around a 50 page thread on possible changes to project and throw...summary has been edited in at the top of the original post...the disturbance switch was one of the suggestions. But thanks for putting some thought into the problem. That is really all I want people to do...look at the mechanics of the game, look at the overriding lore of the movies and the overall look and feel of the class. And think about what you are asking for...and why you are asking for it...lol. Cheers.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=29235

ah, I didn't know about this thread. Cool. Bad BW for not listening to the players.

I'd rather have them implement a delay on Shock. The Inquisitor gathers energy in his fist for the same amount of time that the Sage picks up and tosses that rock, then releases the lightning bolt roughly at the same time the boulder should connect at medium range.

The lets delay shock idea should never see the light of day, and here is why. Delay gives opponents time to react and pop stealth or defensive cooldowns. Why should the 6 other classes get the TIME to react to inq/con class insta casts? It would be pure design failure. Why should scoundrels be able to stealth and avoid the rocks or shock? They can be a Shadow's big hit...if scoundrels can do that, then why shouldnt my shadow be able to magically avoid backblast by giving it a 1 second "charging" animation that telegraphs the move and gives me more time to react? The imbalance is stark and obvious. In addition, there are ALREADY skills with animation delays...those are called activation timers...and those skills are called disturbance and lightning strike.

The lets delay shock idea should never see the light of day, and here is why. Delay gives opponents time to react and pop stealth or defensive cooldowns. Why should the 6 other classes get the TIME to react to inq/con class insta casts? It would be pure design failure. Why should scoundrels be able to stealth and avoid the rocks or shock? They can be a Shadow's big hit...if scoundrels can do that, then why shouldnt my shadow be able to magically avoid backblast by giving it a 1 second "charging" animation that telegraphs the move and gives me more time to react? The imbalance is stark and obvious. In addition, there are ALREADY skills with animation delays...those are called activation timers...and those skills are called disturbance and lightning strike.

The main purpose of instant cast on an instant cast ability is being able to use it on the move. By that logic, I should demand Saber Throw to be lightspeed-instant instant cast\instant hit. Same with Frag Grenade. Same with Missile Blast\Heartseeker\a hundred other "instant" cast abilities that connect after a delay.

Do you see other classes complaining? No. The main reason for the Project controversy is that it is one of the most frequently-used Sage skills and that it's not equal to it's Imperial counterpart.

Also, Project isn't something I'd waste a Vanish\defensive cooldown on.

The main purpose of instant cast on an instant cast ability is being able to use it on the move. By that logic, I should demand Saber Throw to be lightspeed-instant instant cast\instant hit. Same with Frag Grenade. Same with Missile Blast\Heartseeker\a hundred other "instant" cast abilities that connect after a delay.

 

Do you see other classes complaining? No. The main reason for the Project controversy is that it is one of the most frequently-used Sage skills and that it's not equal to it's Imperial counterpart.

 

Also, Project isn't something I'd waste a Vanish\defensive cooldown on.

Really? When a shadow is using particle acceleration plus force potency and you see two rocks coming out of the ground at you, if you dont use it, you're silly.

The issue with the delay on project was more serious and pronounced than say saber throw, which pretty much does its damage instantly, and more importantly, it is pretty much instant on the server. That is why "other classes arent complaining", although in some cases they are...lol. Perhaps this dev quote will help you understand:

"Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): Whenever you use an "instant" ability, the server receives and process that action without any animation dependency (read: instantly), but the impact VFX and flytext are synced to the attack animation on your client. This is done to make the game look good and give attacks a sense of weight and impact without affecting timing or balance.

There are some notable exceptions to this that are real delays and real discrepancies that we're aware of and are addressing. In the case of Shock and Project, there is a real delay (on the server) before Project deals its damage, and that's something we're fixing in 1.3. The other real delays that we're aware of are in Smash and Force Sweep, but we don't yet have a fix for those."

http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-...e-update-1.3#h

Questions? Perhaps you are ready to rethink your position...lol.

I understand. People want Project and Shock to be equal, but the change is one of the few times that I'd say keep the animation over shortening the length. Why not lengthen Shock than? The new Lacerate for Ops is AWESOME, exactly what I was looking for, but this seriously doesn't look like much is happening with the animation. Removing one of the best animations in the game.

 

Best animations in the game? I don't think so. If we were teaching classes at the academy the project animation might be good, but we aren't. We are fighting... and you know what you shouldn't do while fighting? Reveal your plan of attack before using it.

The old project animation has you pulling something out of the ground and then holding it up in front of your opponent so he or she can get a good look, and then you fling it at them... this is about as far from good as you can get. We aren't teaching younglings how to use the force, we are in a fight for our lives. The new animation isn't perfect but at least it makes sense... it's faster, and your often hitting the enemy from outside his or her line of sight.

Best animations in the game? I don't think so. If we were teaching classes at the academy the project animation might be good, but we aren't. We are fighting... and you know what you shouldn't do while fighting? Reveal your plan of attack before using it.

 

The old project animation has you pulling something out of the ground and then holding it up in front of your opponent so he or she can get a good look, and then you fling it at them... this is about as far from good as you can get. We aren't teaching younglings how to use the force, we are in a fight for our lives. The new animation isn't perfect but at least it makes sense... it's faster, and your often hitting the enemy from outside his or her line of sight.

As long as you are conjuring something and throwing it, it will always be "off" for an instant skill. The problems with the new project are simple, and almost as many as the old project. The magic conjuring is ridiculous. The conjured items are ignorant of their environment. The junk you see isnt the junk your opponent see coming at them, since each client has different random rolls on the random chunk-a-junk table. And, at the end of the day, jedi arent junk tossers. It trivializes the class and makes it a comic relief joke with the junk, rocks and pebbles.

There are four better options already in the game....Saber throw. Force burst (Raina). Force burst (Ashara). Force Tremor (Kira). All are truly instant. All look good. All are independent of there environment. All are more jedi in their look and feel than junk tossing.

"Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer):

There are some notable exceptions to this that are real delays and real discrepancies that we're aware of and are addressing. In the case of Shock and Project, there is a real delay (on the server) before Project deals its damage."

http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-...e-update-1.3#h

Pretty much the point of my post is bolded. The main reason for the whole heated discussion isn't the fact that Project isn't actually instant cast and instant hit - it's the fact that it's supposed mirror, Shock, *is* lightning-fast (bad pun intended).

Bottomline, I think all "instant casts" should have a slight delay before connecting, if only to make them equal. Even instant-travel skills often have a small "pre-animation". Can't see why Shock can't have something like that, while Project animation speed gets increased (but not cut, like in 1.3).

That said, I have nothing against Force Burst animation - and I'd rather have the full Project animation, perhaps on a cast-time skill.

Really? When a shadow is using particle acceleration plus force potency and you see two rocks coming out of the ground at you, if you dont use it, you're silly.

Not efficient for the main classes I play, but I suppose I can see where you're coming from.

The junk you see isnt the junk your opponent see coming at them, since each client has different random rolls on the random chunk-a-junk table. And, at the end of the day, jedi arent junk tossers. It trivializes the class and makes it a comic relief joke with the junk, rocks and pebbles.

This has about as much to do with the actual topic of my post as a picture of a cat drinking orange juice, but I'll address it.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the situation is this:

We have an animation for project that not only looks horrible for an attack you'd use in combat, but is actually inferior to our mirror classes version. We have a new animation that looks far more practical and while it still has the same problems aesthetically, it doesn't have them mechanically which is a step in the right direction.

Actually, there is one thing I disagree with you on. At the end of the day Jedi are junk tossers. In the books, in the movies, in the video games. It's a matter of efficiency. It requires less effort and energy to throw something at someone than to create enough kinetic energy with the force alone to simulate being struck by a solid object. Same applies to Sith and their lightning, they generate the energy and then create a path of least resistance letting physics do some of the work for them.

I am against changing the animation to portray something like a jedi manifesting pure energy or some such nonsense but I could see a compromise in the form of some sort of carried ammunition. If a jedi knows he or she will be using kinetic based attacks in a fight would they really enter into said fight with the assumption that there will be an unlimited supply of things to rip apart and throw around? Maybe, but I prefer to think they'd be smart enough to bring an actual weapon.

The lightsaber could fill this role, but I think that they are wanting to keep the style of each class unique (ie not giving every jedi a saber throw). They could remove the randomness from the animation by simply having an alternative source for the ammunition, namely the jedi her or himself. I don't care what form it comes in, but ultra dense metal slugs (to resist lightsaber parries) or some other specialty ammunition that is assumed to be carried by the consular would work just fine.

This has about as much to do with the actual topic of my post as a picture of a cat drinking orange juice, but I'll address it.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the situation is this:

 

We have an animation for project that not only looks horrible for an attack you'd use in combat, but is actually inferior to our mirror classes version. We have a new animation that looks far more practical and while it still has the same problems aesthetically, it doesn't have them mechanically which is a step in the right direction.

 

Actually, there is one thing I disagree with you on. At the end of the day Jedi are junk tossers. In the books, in the movies, in the video games. It's a matter of efficiency. It requires less effort and energy to throw something at someone than to create enough kinetic energy with the force alone to simulate being struck by a solid object. Same applies to Sith and their lightning, they generate the energy and then create a path of least resistance letting physics do some of the work for them.

 

I am against changing the animation to portray something like a jedi manifesting pure energy or some such nonsense but I could see a compromise in the form of some sort of carried ammunition. If a jedi knows he or she will be using kinetic based attacks in a fight would they really enter into said fight with the assumption that there will be an unlimited supply of things to rip apart and throw around? Maybe, but I prefer to think they'd be smart enough to bring an actual weapon.

 

The lightsaber could fill this role, but I think that they are wanting to keep the style of each class unique (ie not giving every jedi a saber throw). They could remove the randomness from the animation by simply having an alternative source for the ammunition, namely the jedi her or himself. I don't care what form it comes in, but ultra dense metal slugs (to resist lightsaber parries) or some other specialty ammunition that is assumed to be carried by the consular would work just fine.

Hi. Speeding it up is an improvement, on that we agree. But I will say it again...As long as you are conjuring something and throwing it, it will always be "off" for an instant skill. The problems with the new project are simple, and almost as many as the old project.

There also seems to be some disagreement about how much of the delay has been removed. But personally I am not sure of that. The idea of a jedi carrying ammunition is totally foreign. Also, your aversion to force push style affects is completely unwarranted. Count how many times in the movies jedi use a form of force push. It is by FAR their most frequently used ranged attack. Obi Wan uses it. Yoda uses it. Qui Gon. Various jedi in the battle of geonosis, etc. How many times does a jedi throw a rock in six movies? NONE....lol. In addition, games like kotor 1 and 2 followed this obvious canon and based the main ranged jedi skills (light or neutral) off of force push and its variants.

The only way I could see them fixing the current animation, which should STILL be on the sith side, would be if they could manage to have it yank up an actual chunk of the terrain.