Well if you want to have another whole different discussion we can do that as well.

BTW: Do you even realize that we are not done with the other 2 discussions you brought up?

a) GftM is too hard / clearance rate is too low ?

b) Creating content for 100 people is a waste of resource ?

 

But sure let's go to

c) Is it smart to have something in the game people aspire to ?

 

Economically it makes all the sense in the world to have something the game people aspire to. Because it keeps them playing. The 20-30 guilds who are still progressing are only doing so because they haven't cleared it yet. If you would take that away, you would also take away the carrot on the stick for those players.

So the content is not created for the people who clear it. It is created for everyone who aspires to clear it or is in awe by the achievements of other people.

 

You realise the content cycle ends at 6.0 don't you because dxun is released. When a new cycle starts the old one tend to get nerfed/recalibrated. There is not an operation previously (except MnB which for some unknown reason got buffed) which hasn't been nerfed either during the content cycle or at the start on a new cycle. Also back to WoW correct me if I'm wrong (I don't play it) doesn't that have 4 tiers of raiding as opposed to 3 in SWTOR. With the buff you mentioned that would make it 5 tiers. Again 75-100 players clear the content, new cycle starts old ops get nerfed so more people clear them. Otherwise it would be hard to justify a nim dxun

 

But please know that as someone who was in a group that was at the time not quite nim too good for HM struggling on content for too long leads to players quitting and groups falling apart. In 3.0 I know so many players who quit because they could easily clear 7 or 8 so bosses but couldn't clear Revan, Cora or MnB they literally hit a wall and there was nothing in the game for them. The 20 or 30 groups you mention will hit a walland they will get bored and quit when they wipe for too long. The question is how long is too long. I think 10 months is ample time to clear this content in it's current state if you are good enough. If you haven't done it by that point you need a nerf to keep your progression going goin.

Edited July 10, 2019 by MuskyBoy

Not sure you understand what @Zwirni is trying to explain to you. To put it simply, its fine as it is. Like I said before, you need to have content that is simply unreachable for 99% of the player population. This was the main reason why there was no NiM in the first place, cause the Devs knew that it will be content for a few player groups only.

 

Lowering the difficulty will not change anything. People will just complete it for the achievement and that will be all. However, if you have content that is hard to do, people will spend much more time on it.

You realise the content cycle ends at 6.0 don't you because dxun is released. When a new cycle starts the old one tend to get nerfed/recalibrated. There is not an operation previously (except MnB which for some unknown reason got buffed) which hasn't been nerfed either during the content cycle or at the start on a new cycle.

 

Well Dread Fortress for example didn't get nerfed in 4.0 or 5.0 it just got easier as you got 248 gear and of course with the implementation of new skills like wandering mend and reflect.

I believe the new tactical items will have a similar effect.

But the original point of the TC was to nerf GftM MM <before> 6.0.

Tldr: Reduce the difficulty of Nightmare Gods from the Machine to allow for the larger raiding community to experience the fights, remove the “Slayer of the Machine Gods” title upon killing Izax as a token to the players who killed it prior.

 

So I am not sure why you want to discuss nerfs after 6.0 hits.

 

Also back to WoW correct me if I'm wrong (I don't play it) doesn't that have 4 tiers of raiding as opposed to 3 in SWTOR. With the buff you mentioned that would make it 5 tiers. Again 75-100 players clear the content, new cycle starts old ops get nerfed so more people clear them. Otherwise it would be hard to justify a nim dxun.

 

If you want to do it like Ulduar it actually only had 1 difficulty when it was released. Normal. You were able to choose yourself boss after boss whether you wanted to enable hardmode buffs.

Dread fortress got nerfed it had nightmare power.

Dread fortress got nerfed it had nightmare power.

 

In 2.x yes, but not in any content cycle afterwards. And the nightmarebuff was communicated beforehand, so I really don't see the similarities.

But again, I don't care whether you want to nerf GftM MM after 6.0 hits. It will be way easier than before anyways because of the new tactical items.

I am giving you arguments and you don't really give me any back.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Zwirni

Not sure you understand what @Zwirni is trying to explain to you. To put it simply, its fine as it is. Like I said before, you need to have content that is simply unreachable for 99% of the player population. This was the main reason why there was no NiM in the first place, cause the Devs knew that it will be content for a few player groups only.

 

Lowering the difficulty will not change anything. People will just complete it for the achievement and that will be all. However, if you have content that is hard to do, people will spend much more time on it.

 

Yes but for how long do you keep it like this? Do people still do DF, DP, TFB, EC, SNV nim? Can only 1 % of the pop complete these ops? Definitely more then 1% can clear these and it's not just because of gear it's also because they have been nerfed.

In 2.x yes, but not in any content cycle afterwards. And the nightmarebuff was communicated beforehand, so I really don't see the similarities.

But again, I don't care whether you want to nerf GftM MM after 6.0 hits. It will be way easier than before anyways because of the new tactical items.

I am giving you arguments and you don't really give me any back.

 

Ok I've misunderstood you all along I was of the assumption you were talking about after 6.0. Yeah at no point did I call for a nerf prior til then.

Dread fortress got nerfed it had nightmare power.

 

We had this with Bane of Izax, just a while ago.

The game lost pretty much every good player due to content drought and still the operation is cleared by the same amount of people as in WoW, percentage wise.

This shows you how easy GftM MM really is. We are in the process of proving that, expect results in 1-2 weeks.

Still proving?

Edited July 14, 2019 by bogbogbog

remove the “Slayer of the Machine Gods” title upon killing Izax.

 

I don't get it!? Why do you want to remove the title? Every server has at least 5 groups selling NiM Items and Titles. Why do you want to remove this title, and not all the others. You want to be special, but simultaneously you sell everything, that makes you special/what other players can't get alone. I don't see why this title is different?

Edited July 14, 2019 by SoontirMorillo

I haven't cleared gods NIM so maybe I am biased to that, but something someone said here makes sense. Every other NIM has a chance to drop a mount or a gaurenteed drop. Since gods NIM doesn't drop any mounts unique to it, the reward for completing it should be the title unless a mount is going to be added.

 

That said, I think in 6.0 it should be made slightly easier, as many have mentioned just slightly less dps required on certain things and slightly less heals required. Anyone who disagrees I have to ask, is it not kinda dumb that some specs or even classes have yet to clear Nahut NIM? I mean I understand some specs are better then others for some fights but straight up 90% of the groups who have cleared Nahut ran atleast 2 PT DPS to do so. I understand what makes PT, IO, and Anni maras so good on this fight but I think a group should be able to run say a Scoundrel, Guardian, Sage and Commando and if all four have a mastery of their class they should be able to clear it. The fact that they can't constitutes a slight nerf in 6.0 or if you don't even want to call it a nerf, just when they rescale it make it not scaled quite as insane with the dps and heal checks.

 

If people really feel the need to feel more special then others in a video game, firstly I am sorry you have nothing going for you in RL! Secondly you can just brag about your "on tier clear" and make fun of those who killed in 6.0.

 

That's my two cents

I think the OP makes a great point and that many of the people who have posted in this thread are incredibly out of touch with the player base. I agree that it's absolutely a time for a nerf to NiM Gods and that it only makes sense to remove the Slayer title concurrently with said nerf. Up front, I'll say that I'm 5/6 on timed runs in 5.0 but haven't even cleared Tyth yet in NiM.

 

Many of the people posting in this thread are the ~100 people who have already cleared NiM Gods. These are clearly the best raiders in the game, and I think it's great that Bioware puts out content that's this exclusive for a period of time to give these players a challenge. However, it's clearly a sub-optimal use of scarce resources to tune the game towards these players indefinitely. While these players may be some of the loudest voices on the forum, they are by no means even a small fraction of the player base.

 

I think it would be a great idea to nerf NiM gods to make it more accessible to a greater percentage of the player base. This isn't going to destroy the raiding community - the older NiM raids are still played constantly. Recognize that even the people capable of doing older NiM raids is still not *that* high, I'd guess maybe on the order of 10-20%.

 

Overall, I think it'd be healthy for the broader NiM raiding community to have a newer, more challenging raid to progress through that is tuned for good, competent NiM raiders instead of the top 0.1% of players.

I think nerfing gods is the wrong way to go about it, it's a really hard raid to do, something people have been asking for. when it finally comes along, people want it nerfed instead of trying to get better and work towards clearing it. but, lets assume that getting good is not possible, a simple solution could be just allowing Nightmare Crystals to be used inside gods nim. but maybe not grant the Slayer title if crystals are used.