I think you should read the post again. Eric said they should have done it and was sorry they didn’t. I can’t remember ever seeing them say something like that in the past. You can be damn sure Ben never said that.

That is admitting a mistake and responsibility. I’m not sure how you think differently. What would you like them to do, get onto their hands and knees and beg for your forgiveness?

I think we can all agree it’s a bad mistake and should have been caught. I’m not arguing it’s not, but they did apologise and take responsibility which earns them a little respect from me.

The thing is that they intentionally do things like this, then they apologize like that will make everything ok, but apologies start to fall on def ears when they happen as often as they do in this game.

What they are doing when the do this is intentionally mislead us, and that is why I don't believe them when they say something until I see it for myself, and why I have so little respect for them.

Thanks for this. The situation is simply inacceptable, and we're already loosing players due to this already!

 

Considering of what you communicated before and how it really works, I propose the following changes to the perk in a hotfix (read within the next week, not in a month or two!):

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +100%

This will ensure that everyone gets their promised +100% and actually make the perk really useful by going up to a fun +400% CXP (let's face it, 100% is still peanuts with the low CXP payouts for quests, etc.) for those that invest the time to grind up all classes. Still not ideal, as ideally you would get the bonus per character, but I think it's a good compromise that would make players happy and encourage them to play more.

 

PS.: Citing "technical reasons" is really BS, it can't be so hard to implement a counter on how many characters you got to 300 that gets incremented and applies the multiplier and putting a cap on there. Your coders could probably take the code for stronghold conquest bonus and it's cap to code something suitable in a couple of hours, if not minutes (if not, then you should clearly employ better coders).

I would be happy with this as well.

Meet the new boss

Same as the old boss

 

keith seems to be no different

Sadly, this is how I'm feeling as well. This is such an utter disappointment. Of all the things that they could have ****** up, this one hit me the hardest. It was an outright lie.

...

PPS.: By the way, the perk seems to be bugged right now.

I have Knight, Consular and Smuggler at 300. I have purchased the Commanding Legacy Perk (before 5.5). This means I should get a 75% Bonus to all CXP. With a below-300-Command-Rank-character (no CXP buffs, no light/dakr bonus, no "Improved Command Experience" perks), I'm getting 206 CXP for a daily quest (you said was now supposedly 75CXP without any buffs), including double CXP. This isn't right.

You get 75 CXP for a daily quest now. From the perk, I should get an additional 75*0.75 = 56.25 CXP. Double that and it should be: [75 + (75*0.75)]*2 = 262.5 CXP

 

Is: 206 CXP

Should be with 3 classes at 300: 262.5 CXP

It's missing 56.5 CXP, which is around the bonus the perk should give me with 3 classes at 300. So there is definitely something fishy going on here besides the fast one you guys pulled on us.

Did you log in all your characters at 300? I think the counter they are currently using is tied to the achievements, and I had to log in each 300 to get those achievements.

It’s a bit more than just overlooking the patch notes. Go back and read it again.

yes, go back and read it again. they just told you that their producer has no idea what exactly he is patching on any given release. Really? That they dont already have a comprehensive change document to sign off on BEFORE they patch. Who is really running this? Larry Moe and Curly? The exact same guy that delayed the roadmap has not idea as to what they are changing. They have "forgotten" important(bad for players) patch notes too many times in the past. Either they are very incompetent or they are doing it on purpose. They once again tell us "whoops! my bad, we will do better" but they never seem to fix a simple documentation problem.

Hey folks,

 

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works. Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

 

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn’t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

 

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

I doubt it has anything to do with the game. Your only want to increase the grind. If I am wrong, then teach me a better one.

For example, your could have left the CXP bug for a month to compensate. Along with the double CXP week. Your should not have the CXP output so extremely down.

So, at least I get the impression that was intention.

And I find that sad. When I read the roadmap. I thought they finally understood something, apparently not.

In the last few weeks, I had the pleasure of bringing a couple of Twinks to Commanderage 300. Not any longer longer. Thank you BW.

Though some was mentioned already, here is my 2c (and possibly the last 2c I spend on this game).

Communication is a mess: before (per CHAR is pretty definitive, isn't it) and after (tough luck, sorry, "technical issues", but enjoy the grind).

Tying the buff to base class is simply not making any sense. It is a reward for doing the grind a couple of times. And even if you said: grinding the same class several times is cheap, since you can share quite a lot through legacy gear, then that did not explain why you ignore advanced classes. Everyone will agree that Sorc/Assa or Sniper/Operative definitely play differently, and they can't share the sets or weapons. It just does not make sense.

It was never clearly stated whether or not the buff would apply to GC300. While it was likely not to apply, since the existing buff isn't, the wording could easily by understood differently.

And it does NOT adress the major issue: grind sucks. RNG sucks. I don't want to level alts more quickly, I want progress on alts to count. Simple as that (though getting unassembled components through crates might adress that a little, not denying that).

And all that while killing the dailies yet again by putting them back to an insulting 75CXP... so basically for all those at GC300 you sent out a nice kick in the teeth... but the new shiny interface for CM - that needed time investment for sure.

I don't understand you.

Well, off to farm Nefra NiM for unassembled components I guess until you nerf that.

This is utter BS... You have fking DB in your hands. To write a fking query like select count(t.id) where t.CommandLevel = 300 is not THAT HARD. (Yeah they are probably not in one table, but may the JOINS serve you well)

I don't have any lvl 300 myself (and probably wouldn't have for a long time) But I really enjoy playing force users, so my 4 lvl 300 chars would probably be of these classes. And now you tell me that I HAVE TO PLAY troopers and smugglers for a **** ton of time to get + 50% bonus?!

yes, go back and read it again. they just told you that their producer has no idea what exactly he is patching on any given release. Really? That they dont already have a comprehensive change document to sign off on BEFORE they patch. Who is really running this? Larry Moe and Curly? The exact same guy that delayed the roadmap has not idea as to what they are changing. They have "forgotten" important(bad for players) patch notes too many times in the past. Either they are very incompetent or they are doing it on purpose. They once again tell us "whoops! my bad, we will do better" but they never seem to fix a simple documentation problem.

I bet you’re upset, I am too, but let’s not argue amongst ourselves. I believe it was more than just an off the cuff apology. I read it as a sincere admission of guilt and responsibility. But that’s just me.

Normally I’d be right there with you yelling from the roof tops, it just doesn’t feel that way this time.

The thing is that they intentionally do things like this, then they apologize like that will make everything ok, but apologies start to fall on def ears when they happen as often as they do in this game.

 

What they are doing when the do this is intentionally mislead us, and that is why I don't believe them when they say something until I see it for myself, and why I have so little respect for them.

I do hear you, I usually have the same opinion. I just don’t read it that way this time. The nuance has changed and so has the delivery. Of course you can fake that, but I’ve been reading Eric’s off the cuff apology posts for years and it doesn’t seem to be one of those. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t feel that I am.

Hey folks,

 

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works. Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

 

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn’t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

 

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

Well, this is just typical of you isn't it? You announce something new that sounds cool and you ruin it by not telling us a rather important detail that screws people over again.

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY NICE WITHOUT ANY NASTY SURPRISES?

I really get tired of how this is not an exception but a recurring thing. Honestly, I main a Sorc and a Sage. One is at 300 the other is closing in on it. Guess what, now it won't count for the perk.

So no I am not enjoying this at all. My other toons are all much lower in CXP ranks and I was hoping that getting my second main to 300 would boost things. It won't.

Thanks for nothing.

Last night I thought I got some momentum again to play...now it's gone again.

And why? There is no useful reason to do this even. Technical reasons? You mean the same type of technical reasons why you couldn't change the server name from Hot Prospect to Satele Shan?

Personally, I'm not mad about the requirement. It's Bioware's game, they can do what they want. I also doubt I will ever have four characters to GC 300, much less the four base classes. I burn out when I grind, and I'm just not interested.

 

However...! I take issue with the one statement quoted above. As a senior software developer by trade, I find it highly unlikely, well nigh impossible, there was any technical limitation forcing such a requirement. There is absolutely no way on earth the game can't distinguish that you have four characters of any class at GC 300 vs. four characters from the four base classes. That's sheer and utter nonsense.

 

I don't know what the real reason is, but it's always frustrating when anyone hides behind "technical limitations". At least be honest.

Also being software developer I absolutely agree with this.

Also since there already are achievements in the game right now for all the 8 classes it obviously already is technically tracked with mirror classes counted separately.

So this is just a very very poor excuse.

Also being software developer I absolutely agree with this.

Also since there already are achievements in the game right now for all the 8 classes it obviously already is technically tracked with mirror classes counted separately.

So this is just a very very poor excuse.

Even without achievements tracker in place. Can they map my chars for a particular server? Of course they can. Can they map a character's GC level to a specific character? Yeah, I can definitely see the number each time I open the interface. Can they use this information to count ho many of my characters reached lvl something? They can, but they just don't want to.

But Cartel Market surely needs rewamp.

I do hear you, I usually have the same opinion. I just don’t read it that way this time. The nuance has changed and so has the delivery. Of course you can fake that, but I’ve been reading Eric’s off the cuff apology posts for years and it doesn’t seem to be one of those. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t feel that I am.

Sure, this time lucy will let charlie brown kick the football......

No, I will not. In fact, I think me and quite a few other players are tired of the hamstring that is GC. This community has voiced their issues with GC time and time again, yet the system and it's associated perks and mechanics keep pestering us month after month. I have no intention to rank up a sixth, seventh or eight character through the GC system beyond the four mains I already have.

This! So this! GC is nothing but a crap system that doesn’t work and things have gotten beyond ridiculous where it is concerned, I don’t get on all 19 of my toons because I don’t want to deal with the GC and ranking them to 300 just to not get any DECENT reward for all the hard work I’ve done to get to 300, there’s just no point, right now I’ve only gotten 2 classes to 300 and have no intentions or interest in going beyond that because the GC system sucks. I mean just today I was on my Sorc and a damn Gold 248 BARREL that’s bind on pick up came out of the Command Crate, what the hell?! My Sorc can’t use a barrel it can only use a hilt. I disintegrated it obviously but it’s like the stupid drops in flashpoints for lowbies of gear where it doesn’t drop gear specific for your advanced class but your counterpart (ex. DPS Sorc gets a healer Sorc Armor) but this wasn’t even for my basic class at all. This system is dumb and no I won’t grind more toons or be happy about grinding a crappy system that doesn’t work.

Add-on: On the barrel yeah I probably could’ve put it in a Legacy Bound Gun, I don’t have one (reason why later), for my Imp Agent/Trooper or Smuggler/Bounty Hunter but I only have those toons cause of legendary player status I haven’t gone beyond their main stories, nor do I intend to. I leveled them to 70 for the achievements and that’s it. I’m done with them as far as I’m concerned. I stick with my Force Users.

just kill cxp before it completely kills your game, which is already on life support

it simply lurches from one disaster to another

if you hadn't spent the last year trying to fix it, we might have actually got some new content...

I may have missed this but I haven't read the whole thread.

How do we know if we get the 100% bonus? Can it be seen anywhere as confirmation or it's just buy perk + track your "Commanding class" achievements?

Did you log in all your characters at 300? I think the counter they are currently using is tied to the achievements, and I had to log in each 300 to get those achievements.

I am also having this issue with the legacy perk bonus not giving correct values.

And it also gives different values on my characters for the exact same mission!

No values are ever high enough to be considered correct.

Yes I have relogged multiple of times on my characters with no effect, the numbers are still all wrong.

Is it amateur-hour at BW these day's, why did no one test and fix this before release?

Sent a ticket to customer service yesterday, still waiting for a response...

The grind is the only content this game has, if they make it too easy like being able to play any class you want to get the perk you will get through it too quickly.

Do I feel foolish sure I do I've been leveling a smuggler and an Agent and was setting up my Sent when my main who is at 300 is a Marauder cause I like the play style. But I get it even with 5.6 there is not any significant end game content except back to the CXP grind like it or quit.

And they know you wont quit cause then they will take your characters names as well, they aren't stupid if you don't subscribe your going to regret it (or possibly not as who cares what your character was called when the game shuts down).

If someone has 0 characters to 300, but purchased this perk (before this update it was just a flat 25%) do they lose the 25% they already paid for?

I think you're thinking of the character perk of 10%. The 25% global unlock perk couldn't be unlocked unless you had a rank 300 character, and had to be bought on that toon.

Hey folks,

 

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works.

So now I've gathered my thoughts, I'm going to reply to your post properly and calmly. There is no confusion Eric, we were specifically informed the perk would work based on how many characters had reached CR300. That's an important distinction to be making here as the time it takes to level one character to 70, and then to gain CR300 is considerable when you factor in the CXP rates that still are not where the players feel they should be.

We all totally understand that miscommunication happens, yet somehow this very important distinction was missed. That's disappointing from a customer perspective when we've seen commitments from you guys that you would communicate better than you had been. This is nowhere near the level of communication that is expected from you, do you honestly think this is good enough? Are you really achieving that level of communication that you committed to?

Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

So this isn't what was indicated. As a reminder, from the roadmap;

Legacy Perk – For each character that reaches Command Rank 300, we will automatically add an additional 25% bonus CXP to your entire Legacy up to a maximum of 100%. You do need to purchase the initial 25% perk, but the additional 75% will be free. And, YES, this Perk is retroactive, so you will immediately benefit once we deliver United Forces Foundation.

There isn't anything in there about mirror classes is there? In fact there isn't anything in there about classes, is clearly states each character. So the question remains as to why this wasn't implemented as per the road map, or why this change to the road map (subject to change) wasn't communicated in advance? Why was this left until after the patch was implemented Eric? Again, this comes down to not delivering on the communication with the players. Is that really good enough?

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn’t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration.

Subject to change is how I personally view the road maps. The road map is an insight, the details of which can change and should be communicated in advance of those changes being made. To put it more succinctly to you, if you value your players feedback, then you should be communicating more frequently on things like this and gauging where the players temperature is to any changes to the road map.

Frustrating your players by not communicating is possibly not the best course of action, wouldn't you agree?

The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors).

I read technical limitations as developer incompetence. I don't mean that in a horrible way, however when we have multiple achievements that can track class progress, although that is a likely a separate system to legacy perks, I see this as a limitation on developer time being available to implement a legacy perk properly.

The question is, even though this is likely a separate system we have legacy perks available for each class based on companion affections, could that not have been adapted in some manner to allow multiple classes (including mirrors). Is it simply a case that the developer resources are not in place to be able to code a system correctly into the base game? Either way, it looks like developer resources are heavily restricted, I have to ask why this is the case?

As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

While I appreciate the apology Eric, the question moving forward is what are you going to do to ensure that this doesn't occur in the future? We've seen this issue with multiple items being missed from patch notes, you've indicated that it wouldn't happen in the future, yet here we are again? I suggest that you have a process in place that prevents this from happening. So what are you going to do to remedy this from happening in the future? The expectations the players have on you communicating clearly and effectively simply are not being met in this area, and it's disappointing to see it re-occuring.

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

This last part really just leaves me speechless, it comes across as insensitive Eric (intended or not).

ranking through Galactic Command and upgrading your gear has remained controversial.

Do you honestly think everyone is enjoying ranking through Galactic Command? Don't answer that, the road map has that covered.

The existing perk only worked on characters below 300, considering that, and Keith said it would stack on the existing perk, I expected that part.

The mirrored class thing I didn't expect. I don't know what's with you guys giving us a general statement, and knowing people are going to go crazy grinding, whether it be leveling up a bunch of toons to 300 or grinding umbara. It's starting to feel like you guys do this on purpose. Make your numbers look good. Doesn't seem like an oversight.

The existing perk only worked on characters below 300, considering that, and Keith said it would stack on the existing perk, I expected that part.

The mirrored class thing I didn't expect. I don't know what's with you guys giving us a general statement, and knowing people are going to go crazy grinding, whether it be leveling up a bunch of toons to 300 or grinding umbara. It's starting to feel like you guys do this on purpose. Make your numbers look good. Doesn't seem like an oversight.

It was the same thing when they started explaining GC before it went live.

They explained how often you'd get crates and people were like, ok that's not so bad.

Then they explained you'd get only gear to for your class and that threw people off.

Oh and then they explained not every crate would have a good piece of gear in it with set bonuss. That ticked people off more.

Then it went live and we found out what the drop rates were.

It's just one disappointment after another. You'd think they'd learn from that sort of thing, but here we go again. People start thinking it's going to be alright and BOOM! BW pulls a dead rabbit out of their hat.

They really have a way of ruining their own good ideas and not tell us so we get the bad surprises after we got excited about it. End result: we're not excited and actually angry about yet another vital omission.

I'm not saying that this was on purpose, but there is such a thing as the lie of omission. And rather than looking at whether or not it was intended, I want BW to think about what the effects are of such omissions. Because regardless whether there is an internal communication problem or it was intentional, the effect is rather the same.

Clearly it's a no-brainer that this was something that needed to be explained right away and not left as an unwelcome surprise. I mean, I get you guys can't win a lot of the time, but sabotaging your easy wins ...that I just don't get. You had a chance at goodwill with the players and the restriction itself wouldn't have changed that. But letting believe there was no restriction and then putting it into place, that's just not very smart really.

If someone has 0 characters to 300, but purchased this perk (before this update it was just a flat 25%) do they lose the 25% they already paid for?

No, because you couldn't buy it except on a rank 300 character. (That is, you had to rank up to 300 and then on THAT character, you had to buy the perk to benefit your non-300s.)

It was the same thing when they started explaining GC before it went live.

 

They explained how often you'd get crates and people were like, ok that's not so bad.

Then they explained you'd get only gear to for your class and that threw people off.

Oh and then they explained not every crate would have a good piece of gear in it with set bonuss. That ticked people off more.

Then it went live and we found out what the drop rates were.

 

It's just one disappointment after another. You'd think they'd learn from that sort of thing, but here we go again. People start thinking it's going to be alright and BOOM! BW pulls a dead rabbit out of their hat.

 

They really have a way of ruining their own good ideas and not tell us so we get the bad surprises after we got excited about it. End result: we're not excited and actually angry about yet another vital omission.

 

I'm not saying that this was on purpose, but there is such a thing as the lie of omission. And rather than looking at whether or not it was intended, I want BW to think about what the effects are of such omissions. Because regardless whether there is an internal communication problem or it was intentional, the effect is rather the same.

 

Clearly it's a no-brainer that this was something that needed to be explained right away and not left as an unwelcome surprise. I mean, I get you guys can't win a lot of the time, but sabotaging your easy wins ...that I just don't get. You had a chance at goodwill with the players and the restriction itself wouldn't have changed that. But letting believe there was no restriction and then putting it into place, that's just not very smart really.

As you pointed out this kind of thing keeps happening over and over again at some point it stops being coincidence and starts being intentional. At this point I’m strongly starting to believe they are intentionally trying to upset their remaining player base.