I get we're never getting complete class balance, but there has to be some level of it. The 5.0 changes really broke PvP again. Those changes changed the dynamic to favor ranged, in general, and introduced the nightmare of the merc/sniper OP. With the spirit of a new direction brought on by the promotion of Keith, we suffered through this 5.0 world, all with the promise of things being fixed through class balance.

Unfortunately, the 2017 changes have not only not fixed the true OP classes, they have shafted classes that were not overperforming (and I don't care what your metrics show, BW). Whatever your logic about changes, the reality of where things stand in actual use, especially for PvP, does not match your numbers. I get you have limited resources, BW, but take a page from doctors and realize that with everything you do, your first objective should be to "do no harm", or at least minimize the damage you're doing to things in the name of fixing other things. You have hurt PvP much more than you've helped it.

I used to love PvP. LOVE IT. I would do it for hours every day. Your 5.0 changes lessened my enjoyment of PvP. Your 5.5 changes severely diminished my enjoyment, and 5.6 freaking destroyed it. I can't even force myself to do my dailies for PvP anymore. You have destroyed the viability of infiltration, and damaged other DPS with your changes to utilities, and while you "nerfed" Mercs somewhat, you really didn't, especially given the fact that you weakened other classes more than you did them. Yes, I can use a different toon. Yes, I could even roll a commando and use the OP class, but if I wanted to use commando, I would have rolled one before now. What I want, is for people to be able to use whatever class they want and feel they have a realistic chance to do well in a WZ. That is not the case now.

Get it together BW, I have played this game since day 1, and I want it to thrive and continue. There are actually a lot of good things about this game, but you keep driving people away from it with decisions that don't help. One of your first priorities for 2018 should be truly balancing classes for PvP.

I used to love PvP. LOVE IT. I would do it for hours every day. Your 5.0 changes lessened my enjoyment of PvP. Your 5.5 changes severely diminished my enjoyment, and 5.6 freaking destroyed it. I can't even force myself to do my dailies for PvP anymore. You have destroyed the viability of infiltration, and damaged other DPS with your changes to utilities, and while you "nerfed" Mercs somewhat, you really didn't, especially given the fact that you weakened other classes more than you did them. Yes, I can use a different toon. Yes, I could even roll a commando and use the OP class, but if I wanted to use commando, I would have rolled one before now. What I want, is for people to be able to use whatever class they want and feel they have a realistic chance to do well in a WZ. That is not the case now.

It's kinda strange you know, as I don't really see a lot of Mercs/Snipers in warzones anymore. What I do see a lot of are Juggs/Maras and stealth classes, probably in favor of Sins rather than Operatives.

It's kinda strange you know, as I don't really see a lot of Mercs/Snipers in warzones anymore. What I do see a lot of are Juggs/Maras and stealth classes, probably in favor of Sins rather than Operatives.

Sins just got a huge nerf though....

@OP

I find myself leveling alts alot more lately. I still enjoy pvp, but smashing your face against healers who dont die because there are 3 other healers gets frustrating after awhile. Gets 10x more annoying when guard comes into play, which is alot because in BW's great wisdom they allowed dps to still have access to it while not being forced to swap stances.

 

@OP

I find myself leveling alts alot more lately. I still enjoy pvp, but smashing your face against healers who dont die because there are 3 other healers gets frustrating after awhile. Gets 10x more annoying when guard comes into play, which is alot because in BW's great wisdom they allowed dps to still have access to it while not being forced to swap stances.

Honestly, you won't see many dps use guard nowadays, because they're especially fragile right now.

There has been a lot of tanks though, with dps gear for the most part, as well as an incredible numbers of healers.

Sniper is still a class that I see at least once per warzone, as well as merc. The big, big favorite class right now go to marauder though, which hasn't really changed since 5.0.

And it seems we're all doing the same lately, leveling up alts, because it's more fun than spending an entire wz trying to carry objectives through a team full of broken healers (setbonuses, lol), solid tanks and god-like dps... ^^

Sins just got a huge nerf though....

 

@OP

I find myself leveling alts alot more lately. I still enjoy pvp, but smashing your face against healers who dont die because there are 3 other healers gets frustrating after awhile. Gets 10x more annoying when guard comes into play, which is alot because in BW's great wisdom they allowed dps to still have access to it while not being forced to swap stances.

Nerf or no nerf, there's a lot of Sins on TRE.

Unguarded healers melt like butter under focus, even if there's multiple of them. Guarded ones are trickier and may prove hard to kill, but that's the point of tank-heal combos and you can just focus someone else down anyway. Most tanks won't bother switching guard to derpies.

Thank you for writing this, I agree with OP

It feels like Devs still don't play PvP at all. It always have been like that, of course, but this year it was going to change...

The "nerfs" for mercs and snipers are not enough, because before that you nerfed unfairly classes like scoundrel and sins due some PvE reason.

I play since day one too and diversity is worst than ever now.

How many different specs played? it's really poor. i Will re queue more often (maybe..) with new warzone but this will not change the fact that the PvP environment is dramatic :\

5.x and 2017 his beyond the word fail. and it shows that the idea of new spec tree and utilities killed spec diversity (more in pvp)

bring back old tree system, at least in 6.0, make specs originality great again o/

funny how people cry about mercs/snipers. but not a single complaint of mara/sent.

mercs have been **** for the majority of the games life so far, now that they are good people lose their minds. snipers have been good for a while and i am glad they are.

maras have not seen a single year where they were weak. they were good/op back then, still are and will be.

It's kinda strange you know, as I don't really see a lot of Mercs/Snipers in warzones anymore. What I do see a lot of are Juggs/Maras and stealth classes, probably in favor of Sins rather than Operatives.

You aren’t seeing snipers?? Wow 😮, what server are you on?

The classes I see the most of -

Snipers

Operatives (see more to counter the Mara’s)

Mara’s (see more to counter the snipers)

Sins (see more to counter the operatives)

Juggs (see more to stand up to the stealths)

Sorcs (healers)

MM Snipers are unfortunately becoming the go to FOTM class. Which is a shame because I like my sniper, but despise playing FOTM.

I see the occasional PT and a few Mercs, not many Sorc dps.

funny how people cry about mercs/snipers. but not a single complaint of mara/sent.

 

mercs have been **** for the majority of the games life so far, now that they are good people lose their minds. snipers have been good for a while and i am glad they are.

 

maras have not seen a single year where they were weak. they were good/op back then, still are and will be.

Why do Mara’s ever have to be weak? Why can’t they just be balanced? You are basically saying a class should have its turn being weak, and that is bad for the game as a whole. No class should ever be weak. Maybe Mara’s are just easier to balance than other classes or they are a favourite of the Devs.

Maybe the reason Mara’s seem strong all the time is people have played them longer and have more experience on them because they haven’t been nerfed into the ground constantly like many other classes have over the years.

You are also seeing more of them because the Fury Mara is the natural melee deterrent to snipers. The more snipers, the more Mara’s. The reason we saw an increase in snipers to start with is because they are the natural deterrent to Mercs. But Mercs have been nerfed and now we have an abundance of snipers what know how to play. Which is why we have more Mara’s.

Why do Mara’s ever have to be weak? Why can’t they just be balanced? You are basically saying a class should have its turn being weak, and that is bad for the game as a whole. No class should ever be weak. Maybe Mara’s are just easier to balance than other classes or they are a favourite of the Devs.

 

Maybe the reason Mara’s seem strong all the time is people have played them longer and have more experience on them because they haven’t been nerfed into the ground constantly like many other classes have over the years.

 

You are also seeing more of them because the Fury Mara is the natural melee deterrent to snipers. The more snipers, the more Mara’s. The reason we saw an increase in snipers to start with is because they are the natural deterrent to Mercs. But Mercs have been nerfed and now we have an abundance of snipers what know how to play. Which is why we have more Mara’s.

snipers countering mercs lol good joke. that nerf was a slap on the wrist to mercs.

maras have always been strong, class balance in this game has been terrible since the launch. yes they are favored by devs, which is never a good thing

lets talk about bad or mediocre classes, sorc dps/pts all specs/ juggs/ops. these classes under-perform

You aren’t seeing snipers?? Wow 😮, what server are you on?

It's in my sig.

You don't see a kidside group without at least 4 sent/guardians. You just don't. Imperials have more merc/sniper, but not an outstandingly lot. I dare to say there are at least as many Assassins as Snipers.

Maybe the reason Mara’s seem strong all the time is people have played them longer and have more experience on them because they haven’t been nerfed into the ground constantly like many other classes have over the years.

Yes, it must be that Marauders are all played by exceptionally skilled long-time players. Everything else is played by noobs that have no clue.

You are also seeing more of them because the Fury Mara is the natural melee deterrent to snipers. The more snipers, the more Mara’s. The reason we saw an increase in snipers to start with is because they are the natural deterrent to Mercs. But Mercs have been nerfed and now we have an abundance of snipers what know how to play. Which is why we have more Mara’s.

Maras aren't just "the natural melee deterrent to snipers", Fury is the most OP spec you have in the game, bar none.

You aren’t seeing snipers?? Wow 😮, what server are you on?

 

The classes I see the most of -

Snipers

Operatives (see more to counter the Mara’s)

Mara’s (see more to counter the snipers)

Sins (see more to counter the operatives)

Juggs (see more to stand up to the stealths)

Sorcs (healers)

 

MM Snipers are unfortunately becoming the go to FOTM class. Which is a shame because I like my sniper, but despise playing FOTM.

 

I see the occasional PT and a few Mercs, not many Sorc dps.

Sniper fotm? What the **** are you saying lmfao snipers are trash now without shield. They're good in the right hands, as always, and do immense damage if left alone to freecast, but tunnel them and they're dead in 1 min tops.

Sniper fotm? What the **** are you saying lmfao snipers are trash now without shield. They're good in the right hands, as always, and do immense damage if left alone to freecast, but tunnel them and they're dead in 1 min tops.

I’m not sure we play the same game.... But, tbh, you said it yourself; surviving focus for a whole minute is absolutely huge.

I’m not sure we play the same game.... But, tbh, you said it yourself; surviving focus for a whole minute is absolutely huge.

mercs die to as well under pressure they just dont blow up instantly like snipers do.

about 2-3 weeks ago in a ranked match, our 100% balanced mara clapped opposing the sniper during the 2nd round in what seemed to be 10-25 secs.

i blinked my eyes and the dude was dead, couldn't believe how fast he fell.

mercs die to as well under pressure they just dont blow up instantly like snipers do.

 

about 2-3 weeks ago in a ranked match, our 100% balanced mara clapped opposing the sniper during the 2nd round in what seemed to be 10-25 secs.

 

i blinked my eyes and the dude was dead, couldn't believe how fast he fell.

Well hopefully they'll buff sniper and merc DCDs soon so the poor gaiz won't die so quick.

I agree with OP. I run maybe 5-6 warzones per week, takes me 2-3 weeks to finish the weekly. I almost have my main (Mara) in full 248 now - missing 4 pieces. The slow gearing definitely put me off and made me play less, which made the gearing even slower. The current state of balance makes the game not fun. I used to enjoy playing a variety of classes and specs, but the current combination of poor balance and slow gearing makes me sometimes log in, beat on my training dummy for a few minutes while trying to work up the will to queue, then simply logging out. It's just not that fun right now.

I used to run ops a fair amount, but I think I'm burnt out. I really don't feel like having to go through the mess of re-balancing my gear stats for PVE and vice versa. I know from experience that the optimal PVE stats are most certainly not optimal for PVP. This whole "one size fits all" notion is bogus. So I just run a few warzones per week with my pvp gear set optimization, and that's all I do. I spent the early parts of 5.0 arguing with people about how we still need two gear sets, some vehement deniers of that. My personal experimentation tells me otherwise.

Oh and of course my ping is now double what it used to be, due to the east coast server move. Sometimes I wonder if it's a lag spike or if I really am rooted. It's definitely a worse experience at 120ms typical, 250+ spikes.

On the plus side, I've been reading, running, and hitting the gym a lot more than I used to, so I suppose I should thank BW for making the game so boring.

I play what is fun and what is OP.

I have always loved Merc and was moderate decent as a solo, but I had to become a sniper a few years back to have the same basic function but be a benefit to a team. Sniper got nerfed, but now both are now in the tops.

I can not play a mara or sin unless it is solo and ftm. That is just me.

I have learned Juggs and PT when they were FOTM and will probably keep with Juggs.

I could care less about wearing a skirt and playing a sorc in this game. It is just me. If I had to heal it would probably be on a Merc unless it was a team and I was voted to. I really need to spend some time as heals and tank.

Mercs juggs and snipers are what are fun for me, and sooner or later one will be at top. I do love playing DCDs and being able to change game movement at that time.

I do recommend getting to know other specs especially if they are in the top tier, This makes playing favorites easier.

Yes, it must be that Marauders are all played by exceptionally skilled long-time players. Everything else is played by noobs that have no clue.

Not what she said, and not even what was implied at all. Marauder and Sentinel have been the "jack of all trades, master of none" thing for a while. They are not exceptionally strong, espescially since they lost some burst window DPS due to the ferocity change in favour of more reliable mechanics a few weeks ago, but they aren't as weak as DPS guardians/juggernauts and Vanguard/PT either. They are very much the "guy in the middle" thing.

That means people who main Marauder and Sentinel don't really get that much of a reason to change. They are never "too weak" for PvP, and thus they don't need to change. That means most Sentinels and Marauders you see are probably mains or well-played alts. The chances to meet a sniper or mercenary who is just re-rolling for the FOTM are much higher than meeting a Marauder who is doing just that. It can create the illusion that the class is OP when it beats the current FOTM, but it's really just a matter of their players being used to even the fine nuances of the class as compared to a reroller.

Anyway, I do agree with the OP. Whoever does balancing at Bioware seriously needs to step back a litle and evaluate his decisions. There's tons of stuff we could argue was "meh", but whoever had the idea of taking away the 30% DR during stuns from sins and shadows was drunk or high. It made them into a burst victim. Until your resolve kicks in, you're either dead or a few percentage points away from dying. They have very few good DCD as DPS, and now even their DR is gone.

You aren’t seeing snipers?? Wow 😮, what server are you on?

 

The classes I see the most of -

Snipers

Operatives (see more to counter the Mara’s)

Mara’s (see more to counter the snipers)

Sins (see more to counter the operatives)

Juggs (see more to stand up to the stealths)

Sorcs (healers)

 

MM Snipers are unfortunately becoming the go to FOTM class. Which is a shame because I like my sniper, but despise playing FOTM.

 

I see the occasional PT and a few Mercs, not many Sorc dps.

Am I the only one that started humming:

"she swallowed the cat to catch the spider

She swallowed the spider to catch the fly

I don't know why she swallowed the fly...

Perhaps she'll die."

Sins just got a huge nerf though....

 

@OP

I find myself leveling alts alot more lately. I still enjoy pvp, but smashing your face against healers who dont die because there are 3 other healers gets frustrating after awhile. Gets 10x more annoying when guard comes into play, which is alot because in BW's great wisdom they allowed dps to still have access to it while not being forced to swap stances.

Guard is stupid OP, IMHO it should be removed from DPS builds and be exclusive to real tank builds.

50% and you only have to press the button once or again if someone dies.

Between guard and heals regs are getting pretty boring, basically most matches have < 10 deaths total; for "PvP" with a total of 16 players that is just dumb.

Guard is stupid OP, IMHO it should be removed from DPS builds and be exclusive to real tank builds.

 

50% and you only have to press the button once or again if someone dies.

 

Between guard and heals regs are getting pretty boring, basically most matches have < 10 deaths total; for "PvP" with a total of 16 players that is just dumb.

I've always been of the opinion that guard is brainless. It should have been changed a long time ago to something like having a 10-15s CD before you can swap again or reducing its effectiveness down to 20% as 50% is just dumb.