Haha, I'm glad that unsure/unofficial statement is now the official statement

 

 

G: "Possibly this year, I'm not really sure but that's what I hear at the water-cooler."

H: "There you have it, people. It's official!"

 

I kid, I kid (what else can I do?). Can't find the 1 of 2 tweet either, oddly.

 

I did find it interesting that Mr. Hood said "we have not been ignoring" people who want SGRA's - they have a funny way of showing interest, not saying a damn thing for months on end except for the occasional "soon".

 

Evidently Mr. Hood and I have very different definitions of ignoring people.

 

Given his name sounds like a super-hero's secret identity, maybe he's always watching?

Edited September 25, 2012 by Palar

Another lurker here.. btw I think that, as Makeb should be the biggest expansion from the beginning, maybe they'll relase it for the game birthday on December. At least that's what I hope

 

That is a great idea! I would be so very impressed with EA if they came out with a planet a year. (Or is that too much to hope for?)

I suppose there's a difference between ignoring someone, and simply not showing that you're paying attention.

 

Frankly we've seen no indication to date that they're NOT doing the former - ie. we've repeatedly voiced very clear and specific concerns that they could indeed address, even if it's to say 'About THIS matter: we're not sure/can't say yet,' and they haven't so much as made mention of them.

 

I don't think they can. I think it's likely that even Gabe A. probably shouldn't have let slip what he did, had protocols been followed. I really get a sense that they really don't like the fact that the current strictures give the strong impression that they are neglecting the subject. I also infer some attempts to work around the policy in various ways, and perhaps even hints that there is some movement toward re-assessing how this subject is handled.

 

Just for one example, the thread I started in General Discussion is still open, and not because the Community Team has overlooked it – they have already been through at least once to sweep out problem posts, and are just letting it run, perhaps experimentally. A small change, certainly. But that is a huge departure from how things have been done in the past. And I think one that indicates real attention to the meta-issue of how SGR discussion is treated, and is a step in the right direction.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Uluain

G: "Possibly this year, I'm not really sure but that's what I hear at the water-cooler."

H: "There you have it, people. It's official!"

 

I kid, I kid (what else can I do?). Can't find the 1 of 2 tweet either, oddly.

 

Kidding? No, that was pretty much it. That was essentially a re-hash of the Guild Summit with a person who still works for Bioware, but not on the relevant department and with not real idea of what's going on in the writer's room. To be honest, he could have said "why yes, Wookies do have pink fur" and with Mr. Hood's vague response of "yes" I give them about as much credit as I give Clegger's recent apology.

 

I highly doubt that Mr. Hood is ever going to make a post in this thread clarifying the state and details of same-sex romances and content in this game. I would defy him to prove me wrong, but given this company's record on actually communicating with the player base I know exactly what he's going to do: nothing.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Tatile

Makeb is a new planet they are introducing, some time in the near future, which will include story progression along with new missions and so on. Details at this point are scarce. They tend not to let a lot out in advance.

 

As far as we can infer from what we have been told to date, there will be same-gender romances available with some existing companions. We don't know which, or how those will be tied it. There are a lot of unanswered questions still. But we do now know, definitively, that SGRs have not been scrapped and are on the way, in spite of what some doomsayers have supposed.

 

 

Woot! I have to start lvl:ing my toons faster. My dream is playing all the 8 class stories with the hetro romance first. Then play them over again, with a new AC and a SGR romance. I fully believe that we will see these romances in the game at some point. Even if I always start out my heroines with a male LI, the second PT most often has a female LI. Have had a great time playing through the romance between my Warden & Leliana, FemHawke & Daisy, FemShep & Liara and FemShep & Traynor. I'm hoping that it's sooner rather than later for those of you who are lvl:ing faster than me. But I don't believe for a second that they wouldn't put it in the game.

I don't think they can. I think it's likely that even Gabe A. probably shouldn't have let slip what he did, had protocols been followed. I really get a sense that they really don't like the fact that the current strictures give the strong impression that they are neglecting the subject. I also infer some attempts to work around the policy in various ways, and perhaps even hints that there is some movement toward re-assessing how this subject is handled.

 

Just for one example, the thread I started in General Discussion is still open, and not because the Community Team has overlooked it – they have already been through at least once to sweep out problem posts, and are just letting it run, perhaps experimentally. A small change, certainly. But that is a huge departure from how things have been done in the past. And I think one that indicates real attention to the meta-issue of how SGR discussion is treated, and is a step in the right direction.

 

I'd agree with you, but for one thing: one of them - it doesn't even really matter which one - could actually come in here and post a single post saying, 'Yes, we do read this. No, we aren't ignoring you. Yes, we will update you when the time is right (which isn't right now). They could come to the coal-face, so to speak, and actually say it for themselves - but they haven't.

 

Hell, they could actually SAY they're under an NDA. We don't even know that for certain, as far as I know. It's just assumption (though reasonably safe assumption).

 

I'll be clear: I'm not saying that they ARE ignoring us. I'm saying that we've been given no way of knowing for certain that they're not.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Kioma

Kioma - not showing that you're listening is as bad as flat out ignoring someone,

 

Yyyes, that's pretty much what I said.

 

from an outsider's perspective it's basically the same thing.

 

From an outsider's perspective, yes. But they're not the same thing. One is worse and it's up for debate which - to ignore someone, or to pay attention and purposefully let them think you're ignoring them.

I'll be clear: I'm not saying that they ARE ignoring us. I'm saying that we've been given no way of knowing for certain that they're not.

 

You have no idea how difficult it is for me not to launch into a whole epistemological, metaphysical adventure in reply to that, but I'm making the effort.

 

Yes, they could have. Eventually, after I found the right burning slivers to poke in the right tender tissues, Joveth did come in and say that for them. It ought not have taken the measures it did for that to happen. But again, I infer that somehow that gave Joveth not just incentive but something he could show to the Hypothetical Order of Keepers of Silence in order to persuade them to allow it. There being a policy, part of which includes no discussion of the policy, prohibiting certain discussions is simply the only explanation I can find that makes sense of how they respond when they can, versus the general demoralizing silence.

 

Honestly though, unless they could come in and hit my five bullet points directly, would that satisfy us? And even if they did, would there not be follow-up questions and issues ad infinitum? I can see the difficulty in knowing what to say when they can't say all they'd like. I want the answers, sure. But I want the content more, and at least we do know now that really and truly they've not just dropped it by the wayside.

I'm not sure about this, but right now I would be surprised if we see SGR before December. If BW keeps to the update schedule we should see 1.5 around the middle of November, but 1.4 may have some... issues that will slow down the process. I wasn't really paying attention to this until I started playing a new main on PTS, but 1.4 has a graphics fix to make the game look less clunky. The effect of this fix can best be described as very pretty but Crash Happy and Lag-tastic for the client. I honestly have no idea why they are going live with this tomorrow, but I have a feeling that rolling out bug fixes to fix the fix are going to screw up any deployment time table BW has for the foreseeable future.

We're close to the equinox and 4.1 drops tonight, which makes 6 weeks out right around the beginning of November, which is the rumored debut of F2P and its accompanying whatever they bring with it. No, I am not expecting Makeb before the end of December, and it may get pushed back further.

 

But I do consider a Makeb release to be keeping faith with the "this year" promised in March – development time being inherently fluid, but matching the commitment of SGRs coming with new story. Just now, I am happy to have confirmation of Gabe's remark, as well as a very firm confirmation that SGR is still in the cards.

Yyyes, that's pretty much what I said.

 

From an outsider's perspective, yes. But they're not the same thing. One is worse and it's up for debate which - to ignore someone, or to pay attention and purposefully let them think you're ignoring them.

 

I was trying to agree with you and give some context for the next part of my baseless rant, but I've rectified my post now.

I was trying to agree with you and give some context for the next part of my baseless rant, but I've rectified my post now.

 

Ah, gotcha, sorry.

 

For the record I don't think your post was baseless, or even overly ranty.

Ah, gotcha, sorry.

 

For the record I don't think your post was baseless, or even overly ranty.

 

No, but I do - for instance, Mr. Hood has never posted on the forums and as far as I'm aware has only given a single interview, so there is no reason to suspect he would suddenly begin posting on the forum, let alone in this thread. I merely dislike the idea of his being head writer because of what he has written previously in this game (a lot of heavy straight flirting) and the fact that I can find little to nothing about him outside of SWTOR, giving me no basis of comparison for his works. We have only ever had information out of Bioware about this subject after continual harassment of its staff and most certainly then under duress, under this precedent they have no reason to start volunteering information to us.

 

It just leaves a foul taste in my mouth that the makers of this game could be so pathetic as to think this approach appropriate. And I've stopped attempting to be nice and polite about my opinion on the matter because I know that no one at Bioware is reading my posts, meaning I can say pretty much what I like.

I'm not sure about this, but right now I would be surprised if we see SGR before December. If BW keeps to the update schedule we should see 1.5 around the middle of November, but 1.4 may have some... issues that will slow down the process. I wasn't really paying attention to this until I started playing a new main on PTS, but 1.4 has a graphics fix to make the game look less clunky. The effect of this fix can best be described as very pretty but Crash Happy and Lag-tastic for the client. I honestly have no idea why they are going live with this tomorrow, but I have a feeling that rolling out bug fixes to fix the fix are going to screw up any deployment time table BW has for the foreseeable future.

 

Well, they've implemented some performance improvements on the regular servers since 1.4 went live on PTS, so it's quite possible that those will be added to the proper 1.4 release.

 

At least that's what I'm hoping, because my framerate on Tython was horrible when I tried 1.4 earlier.

It just leaves a foul taste in my mouth that the makers of this game could be so pathetic as to think this approach appropriate. And I've stopped attempting to be nice and polite about my opinion on the matter because I know that no one at Bioware is reading my posts, meaning I can say pretty much what I like.

 

Maybe they're hoping the deafening silence will nudge from "not even angry, just disappointed" to apathy. If so, it's kinda working. I want to care, but between this and "Oh yeah, we have Oceanic servers, don't we? Sorry you guys were confused... we hope to get around to weighing up your server pops and extra character slots. Stay tuned, we'll get back to you on that. Soon." If they have bones, now's the time to be throwing them.

 

(They do know MMOs are a buyer's market, right? They can't just give up and move on, like with DA2.)

If that is their strategy (which I really hope it isn't, because that would suck ), it won't work on me. I really do like this game, a lot, and while there are certainly other improvements and additions I look forward to, this is the one thing which is most frustrating to me as a player. I make no bones about it. I like guys, and I see no reason that my character cannot have those options in this day and age.

 

Maybe because I came to gaming from table-top RP, where this was simply taken as par for the course by the early 1990s, but it honestly surprises me not to have it in game. Knowing it ought to be there, and is on the way, is both a blessing and a curse. I can excuse a lot of how the game as it stands now comes across. But it does make me rather tightly focussed on this content, and that much more concerned for how it will be implemented.

 

I also do know that societally this is a somewhat controversial subject, and I think what we have seen in the way of tight-lipped noninformation is a collision of conflict management and a natural reticence toward discussion of any content that isn't immediately pending. In this particular case, that can cut the other way, however, particularly as a reluctance to mention the topic has, historically, been a consequence of societal condemnation.

 

And I think that quite innocently escaped the attention of those responsible for handling things as they have been because as open-minded and well intentioned as I think they likely are, they haven't experienced the awkwardness and isolation personally. Not to say, "oh I am a downtrodden and tragic soul," because I am not and never have allowed myself to be. I am only saying (and this only just came clearly to me, in spite of my forum sig) how silence on this particular subject can denote disapproval or dismissiveness where none is intended.

 

TL;DR - what we have here is a perfect storm of adverse circumstance that results in a more difficult situation than realized, and that is far more prone to misinterpretation than those trying to choose the least difficult path forward might have expected.

Well, they've implemented some performance improvements on the regular servers since 1.4 went live on PTS, so it's quite possible that those will be added to the proper 1.4 release.

 

At least that's what I'm hoping, because my framerate on Tython was horrible when I tried 1.4 earlier.

 

It is still pretty bad, especially with space battles. Beyond the framerate issues, there are a lot of genuine crash bugs based around the graphics update. I've literally had 6 crashes on about 40 hours of play in the last week. The truly annoying part of it is that the shadow rendering (which is what this is actually a fix for) still looks terrible. Like I said though, I think bug fixes for all the problems this is going to create are probably going to screw up the schedule for Makeb, and SGR, release. It isn't so much a thing where I think BW thinks space battles and shadows are more important than SGR, but genuine crash bug fixes have to be a top priority, which means having to wait for everything else.

 

I really have no idea why they're taking this patch live so soon. The latest build is very unstable and the PTS forum is full of talk about problems with it.

The problem is that they consider SGRA some sort of optional, and it's not. What would had happened if the game had been relaxed with only same gender romance? An uproar ofc, with good reason, because it's normal to have hetero romance. So why so many people have to beg for an update on a feature that should be in the game from the beginning without doubts? That I don't understand

I really have no idea why they're taking this patch live so soon. The latest build is very unstable and the PTS forum is full of talk about problems with it.

 

I'm gonna guess it's because That Other Game released an expansion yesterday.

The problem is that they consider SGRA some sort of optional, and it's not. What would had happened if the game had been relaxed with only same gender romance? An uproar ofc, with good reason, because it's normal to have hetero romance. So why so many people have to beg for an update on a feature that should be in the game from the beginning without doubts? That I don't understand

 

Well, again, I think that the decision to delay the content was unfortunate, as it alienated a lot of different people for a lot of different reasons, starting with those who oppose same-gender romantic content altogether and who did not wait until it was in to try to make a stink about it. Then there are those who, knowing it is awaited, feel that it is a waste of development resources which could be spent on content they care about and, finally, those who expect this content and are vaguely to seriously disturbed by its absence at launch.

 

I think that if they could go back and reconsider, with hindsight they'd have made a different decision. But they can't, and were stuck trying to move ahead with their intentions, maintaining a certain degree of standard developer secretiveness compounded by a perceived need to avoid controversy. This resulted in the situation that they, and we, are now in.

 

So, how to address it? Well, at a bare minimum, what was called for was assurances that the prospective content had not been scrapped and was still on track and, after a certain amount of brandishing pitchforks and torches, we got that. We got the stance of limiting all discussion to this single thread quietly reviewed and quietly relaxed (to my great surprise & satisfaction). We also got word, albeit through mazy and oblique avenues, that SGRs will indeed be part of story content released with Makeb (which had been inferred and hoped for but uncertain until yesterday).

 

That's all in the past month or so, and yes, that is a year after the initial announcement that SGRs would be in as post-launch content. But I think their seeing the length of time it had been, and the morale in this thread, and the realization that we never actually had been told why this discussion was restricted to this thread, or that it had over nine months never received a BioWare staff reply – that all of these, brought to their attention and the dots connected, have in fact gradually improved things.

 

Could it be better? Yes, but I don't think we are any worse off than people asking about paid transfers, or hood toggles, or minigames, or any other "quality of life" improvements. We are getting feedback. I think on our end it would be good for us, as well as good of us to stop feeling like victims.

 

It has been a long, frustrating wait. The hyperspatial matrix knows I have had my moments of pessimism, frustration and bitterness too. But in all essentials, we're winning. The content is coming, BioWare knows we are awaiting it with anticipation, even the PvP guy knows that yes, this really does matter. He didn't say a lot, but his attitude was frank and in no way condescending.

 

So I see real improvement. And this is going where we want it to – to SGRs in game, hopefully this year. And if that is so then, yes, the last update we had last March remained accurate and current. We were cautioned we were unlikely to hear more until much closer to implementation. Changes at BioWare and in the direction of the game raised concerns, yes, but we did get those answered. We're on better footing now. Try to see the positive.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Uluain

The collaboration in this thread, especially with our mini Twitter companion, has been amazing to be apart of! I'm really glad the feedback has started and that they our listening to us. Too bad we had to really start tweeting a lot(I overall hate twitter,) but it helped get stuff done.

 

BTW, Uluain, you've personally inspired me to get more invovlved and start demanding answers. Thank you again for all your hard work and dedication. Not to mention your remarkable tenacity.

 

I'm personally looking forward to us going from frustration to enjoyment again. It'll be neat seeing everyone's different experiences with various toons, actually know who's available, the change in romantic dialog, ect.

 

Since this was requested, here are the responses from Hall Hood:

 

Hall Hood ‏@hallhood

@StoleTarts Thanks, Megan. I know it's frustrating to wait for answers, but be assured we're not ignoring our SGR fans.

And

Hall Hood ‏@hallhood

(2 of 2) When I can share more information, I will let you know. Writing romances is one of my favorite things about working on SWTOR. :-)

Edited September 26, 2012 by natashina

I'm gonna guess it's because That Other Game released an expansion yesterday.

 

That's my guess too. It's a really smart idea on BioWare's part to stay out of competition with ATVI. I used to enjoy what is now Panda Land, so I'm not knocking on it(or those that currently play it, the new content seems like it could be fun, just not my cup o' tea anymore.) I got burned out before Panda Land was even mentioned. ToR trying to go head to head with that would cause a ton of conflicts, and probably met with poor reception.

 

Being called a "clone*", and then releasing big content the same week would make BW look pretty bad and kinda stupid tbh.

 

 

I'm getting excited and impatient for 1.5 to come out on the PTR(once 1.4 is out of course.) For the first time in a game, after playing mmos for about 8 yrs, I'm going to beta test the new content. I'll just keep any spoilers in tags. I look forward to seeing more stories as well as SGR content.

 

I do hope that they open up more OGR content in time as well. Having only one option for a hetero relationship for most of the lady toons, when some classes with guys get two, is aggravating. I'm also have a little bias; it seems like the toons that match my tastes in just personality are all female. Pierce is an exception. I really like the character and he's a good fit for my Jugg, but alas, he is not available.

 

In spoiler tags for those that haven't played the lady SW questline:

 

 

Also, it would be nice if there was two options for SGRs and OGR for all genders, for all classes. Okay, so that might be asking too much, but eh, I get greedy sometimes. I know how very unrealistic that is.

 

It wasn't a pleasant experience for me finding out that Quinn was my only option. Especially since I prefer Jaesa and Pierce's personalities a whole lot more.

 

Same thing on my sage and Tharan Cedrax.

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong; I think Iresso is a good character. I just don't think he should be the only choice.

 

*I hate the whole "every mmo is a clone of ATVI" mentality that seems to prevail, but that's another rant for another thread. *

Edited September 26, 2012 by natashina

Well they did "promise" Terror From Beyond was coming in September...and people were already creating threads calling them a liar if they don't come through with it. I think that was more of a factor than competing with Pandaland. Of course most people would rather stuff come out when it's ready, but I think they've been taking too much heat with everything they've said is coming that hasn't come to pass (i.e. SGRs "this year".)

You didn't get my point Uluain: i was trying to say that even if i understandt the post launch choice (lack of budget) and i don't like it, even if I hold them on the promise they made on March that the SGRA will be implemented, even with all the things that have been say about that, i found myself somewhat insulted by this lack of information on a matter that important.

 

And no, i don't think that we're more or less lucky than ppl asking for character transfer or rename token: as i said before, this is not like an optional feature of the game; the Romance (both hetero and homosexual) could be an optional in the whole, not only the SGRA; so even if I want to think that this feature as no more priority than the new pve set that they will relase somewhat and somewhere in the future, AT LEAST would be nice to have an official update on the matter, not only third hand infos.

 

Being calm and polite it's always fine, I just hope they're not considering this kind of attitude a sort of weak spot to be exploited (ignoring us just because we don't make enough fuss about).

Edited September 26, 2012 by Ayslinn_Iduviel

Being calm and polite it's always fine, I just hope they're not considering this kind of attitude a sort of weak spot to be exploited (ignoring us just because we don't make enough fuss about).

 

We've only been given these pathetic scraps of information because we've been making a fuss. I agree we need an official statement (I trust Twitter about as far as I can throw it) and an apology for being treated like under-fed mushrooms for a little over a year.

 

They're going to be rolling out innumerable bug fixes for 1.4 in the next couple of weeks, but that doesn't mean we should allow them to forget about us. I don't expect 1.5 to Makeb, but I do want further official clarification on Mr. Gabe's statement posted on this site by a Bioware representative.