Now updated to include 258 gear setups for all specs.

Note: If you wish to optimize 252 gear you will use the same aug/enh set up as 248 for all specs

Now updated to include 258 gear setups for all specs.

Note: If you wish to optimize 252 gear you will use the same aug/enh set up as 248 for all specs

 

Maxitrac: it appears that the bug/feature from PTS carried over into LIVE: enhancements are bound to the specific anatomic armor slot. So, can you double check how this will change the breakdown?

Maxitrac: it appears that the bug/feature from PTS carried over into LIVE: enhancements are bound to the specific anatomic armor slot. So, can you double check how this will change the breakdown?

 

My main build still will work with this system. It works with the enhancements you get from the gear so you won’t have to change anything

Remember that healer gear NEVER has accuracy enhancements. I recommend replacing dps accuracy enhancements with alacrity/critical enhancements that drop in healer spec crates. Even if you have to put it in legacy gear to move it around from toon to toon. Therefore, five 240 acc augs and 1 acc stim is still optimal for most specs.

 

It's going to be a long, complicated grind.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

Remember that healer gear NEVER has accuracy enhancements. I recommend replacing dps accuracy enhancements with alacrity/critical enhancements that drop in healer spec crates. Even if you have to put it in legacy gear to move it around from toon to toon. Therefore, five 240 acc augs and 1 acc stim is still optimal for most specs.

 

It's going to be a long, complicated grind.

 

Healer chests generally have the extra alacrity (in place of crit on dps), and healer boots have the critical (in place of accuracy for dps).

 

I haven’t checked, but do the Warding unlettered 258 mods have more health than Warding B 248s?

Remember that healer gear NEVER has accuracy enhancements. I recommend replacing dps accuracy enhancements with alacrity/critical enhancements that drop in healer spec crates. Even if you have to put it in legacy gear to move it around from toon to toon. Therefore, five 240 acc augs and 1 acc stim is still optimal for most specs.

 

It's going to be a long, complicated grind.

 

There is 0 reason to run this build simply due to t. Being a master of shards and credits. Also you will be below the accuracy cap which can **** over s team st the most inconvenient times. When you can be over the cap by a little, and have a 0% chance to miss.

There is 0 reason to run this build simply due to t. Being a master of shards and credits. Also you will be below the accuracy cap which can **** over s team st the most inconvenient times. When you can be over the cap by a little, and have a 0% chance to miss.

 

The chance to miss is 0.01%. You won't **** over your team with it. You can run ops for weeks and never miss. And when you do, it will be just one hit. Crit RNG has more impact on your DPS that this.

The chance to miss is 0.01%. You won't **** over your team with it. You can run ops for weeks and never miss. And when you do, it will be just one hit. Crit RNG has more impact on your DPS that this.

 

Last week we had an issue where a dps missed their bindings on styrak and it caused us to wipe it can happen, it happens more that you think. Also 11 crit won’t change much while 11 accuracy will.

parsing with merc (IO): 4% more crit with under 1800 crit stat. parsing 4% less if more than 1800 crit.

 

did about 100 parses. looks significantly for me

parsing with merc (IO): 4% more crit with under 1800 crit stat. parsing 4% less if more than 1800 crit.

 

did about 100 parses. looks significantly for me

 

so the DR calculations for Crit i posted in the guardian section are still correct. OP stated that his stats are more accurate than smartys. i pretty sure thats not correct now. thanks for the tests.

What stat brackets are optimal with new gear now for pvp? Some of my characters were running with 750 alacrity and some with 1881 (it was full 248 gear and 240 augments). What are brackets for minimum and maximum alacrity now for 258 gear? And which is the breaking point for crit diminishing now? In the past it was 2k maximum and what about now? Any help for pvp?

What stat brackets are optimal with new gear now for pvp? Some of my characters were running with 750 alacrity and some with 1881 (it was full 248 gear and 240 augments). What are brackets for minimum and maximum alacrity now for 258 gear? And which is the breaking point for crit diminishing now? In the past it was 2k maximum and what about now? Any help for pvp?

 

the brackets and DR do not magiclly change with new gear. they stay exactly the same, you just got more points to spend on mastery or can get closer to both crit and alacrity goals.

 

its still:

702 alacrity : 1.4sec GCD

1857 alacrity: 1.3sec GCD

~1800 Crit Softcap

 

/e: corrected numbers.

Edited December 17, 2018 by mrphstar

What stat brackets are optimal with new gear now for pvp? Some of my characters were running with 750 alacrity and some with 1881 (it was full 248 gear and 240 augments). What are brackets for minimum and maximum alacrity now for 258 gear? And which is the breaking point for crit diminishing now? In the past it was 2k maximum and what about now? Any help for pvp?

 

The GCD rounds down to 1.4 seconds stating at 702 Alacrity and rounds down to 1.3 seconds starting at 1857 Alacrity. But players' values will likely overshoot those exact thresholds slightly because of the nature of the item modifications.

 

Those goals haven't changed for all of 5.0, but that's because the equations converting character stats to actual percentages depend upon the character level. A new tier of gear released within the same level cap doesn't affect the diminishing return curve, but if there is new gear with a new level cap, then the goals for Accuracy and Alacrity will change with that.

parsing with merc (IO): 4% more crit with under 1800 crit stat. parsing 4% less if more than 1800 crit.

 

did about 100 parses. looks significantly for me

 

Parsing what? 4% more dps when you keep your critical rating under 1800? Or, you are seeing 4% more critical hits with a critical rating 1800 than you do with >1800?

 

Would you mind posting your mastery total at <1800 and >1800, and your total critical chance in both scenarios?

 

I could theoretically understand that once you reach a certain level of crit, you get more bang for your buck by increasing the baseline damage with mastery. Thus, I could totally understand that dps might be higher with a lower critical rating because the lower range of damage values is higher, raising your mean high enough to overcome the marginally higher rate of crits. But, even in an asymptotic diminishing return curve, you should still be seeing numerically more crits, even if they only occur slightly more often. 4% more critical hits occurring with less critical rating can only be explained by having so much more room for mastery that your end critical chance percentage is higher than it is with > 1800 critical rating … or, as a result of random chance.

Edited December 17, 2018 by phalczen

Parsing what? 4% more dps when you keep your critical rating under 1800? Or, you are seeing 4% more critical hits with a critical rating 1800 than you do with >1800?

 

Would you mind posting your mastery total at <1800 and >1800, and your total critical chance in both scenarios?

 

I could theoretically understand that once you reach a certain level of crit, you get more bang for your buck by increasing the baseline damage with mastery. Thus, I could totally understand that dps might be higher with a lower critical rating because the lower range of damage values is higher, raising your mean high enough to overcome the marginally higher rate of crits. But, even in an asymptotic diminishing return curve, you should still be seeing numerically more crits, even if they only occur slightly more often. 4% more critical hits occurring with less critical rating can only be explained by having so much more room for mastery that your end critical chance percentage is higher than it is with > 1800 critical rating … or, as a result of random chance.

 

someone did all the work already:

 

https://de.scribd.com/document/370568213/crit-DR

Nice thanks for that.

Thanks very much for help guys! Really helps! I hope ur right

someone did all the work already:

 

https://de.scribd.com/document/370568213/crit-DR

 

I don’t think you read my post, or understood my question. I read the document from Smartie and it does not answer the question either. In short, the document provides a decent mathematical explanation for why dps will increase more with points invested into mastery instead of critical rating, beyond a certain critical rating base of 1796. But, it does not explain, and in fact argues against, the observation that more critical hits occur with a lower critical rating. Again, blueCult posted that they saw 4% more crits with a crit rating < 1800. That would not make sense unless the resultant change in mastery gave them, overall a higher final critical chance percentage than with a crit rating >1800. BlueCult didn’t specify mastery or critical chance percentages, or dps, in their post, they made a claim that in 100 parses they saw 4% more criticals when critical rating was < 1800. They didn’t specify how many of the parses were at each level, what their APM were, and what the stats were. They didn’t even post a link to parsley of any of their 100 parses.

 

I know you are using that document as a bible and frequently argue against Maxitrac using that document to support your disagreement. But I’m not interested in whatever argument you have against Maxitrac. I don’t know either of you. All I know is that I read Smartie’s document and his analysis suggests that dps might benefit more from Mastery beyond 1796 critical rating but never suggests that the actual frequency of critical hits would be higher with less critical rating other than through random chance. I already acknowledged that I believe dps could be higher with mastery beyond a specific crit rating but that’s not what blueCult claimed.

But, it does not explain, and in fact argues against, the observation that more critical hits occur with a lower critical rating.

 

it does exactly that. by argueing against it, it gives you the answer.

 

you cant use a a mathematical study as a bible, thats a paradox. a scientific document is all, but a fictional story.

he claimed his calculations are more accurate, i ask why and gave evidience why i disagree. he didnt answer.

 

you had questions regarding crit calculations, so i posted it again.

thats exactly 2 times i posted it and one of them didnt even belong to the didcussion with OP.

if you dont believe it, thats fine. test it yourself and give us the results. i dont have the time to do so, so i'd be glad to see more statistics either proove or disproove it.

 

regarding bluecults claim: there might be a typo. i think what he wanted to say is, he got 4% more dps. i might be wrong here, but why would anyone look at the amount of crits first instead of the overall damage. if i understand it correctly, with crit > 1800 the crit chance doesnt increase more than mastery does and importantly not enough to compensate missing mastery and therefor base damage. thats why you get better results.

Edited December 18, 2018 by mrphstar

parsing with merc (IO): 4% more crit with under 1800 crit stat. parsing 4% less if more than 1800 crit.

 

did about 100 parses. looks significantly for me

 

I think he mixed some words around -- maybe english not his main language. I interpreted this to mean that he parsed 4% higher with crit stat under 1800, and 4% less if over 1800. I assume the extra stat points went to mastery. And Mastery is just about as good as Power stat, particularly with the 5% sorc buff and no soft cap.

if you dont believe it, thats fine.

sigh …. I wrote that I completely believe it, and I understand Smarties theorycrafting.

regarding bluecults claim: there might be a typo. i think what he wanted to say is, he got 4% more dps.

I think he mixed some words around -- maybe english not his main language. I interpreted this to mean that he parsed 4% higher with crit stat under 1800, and 4% less if over 1800.

As mrphstar and Rion stated, maybe this was a mistake. However, any scientific claim needs its data to be peer reviewed for it to be legitimate. In our case, this would includes blueCult posting:

1) Mastery, Power, Tech Power, critical chance percentage, alacrity percentage, accuracy percentage for each configuration tested

2) the number of trial parses conducted at each configuration

3) The dps done, abilities per minute, critical hit frequency, etc … expressed both as a mean across the parses WITHIN EACH configuration, and a lowest-highest range within each configuration.

4) Ideally, links to some, or all, of the parses, but I'd settle for the first three.

why would anyone look at the amount of crits first instead of the overall damage.

In fact, demonstrating that your observed frequency of critical hits is close to critical chance percentages in your character sheet helps to validate your data. If your observed frequency is much higher than the predicted, then your results are more than likely the result of random chance, or a methodology error, and not a true benefit of the stat balance you've chosen.

Edited December 19, 2018 by phalczen

i still dont see where these numbers are coming from...

 

are you using math or just educated guesses for balance between crit/alacrity/mastery/power ? for instance, can you tell be how much dps 10 points of crit contributes in fully optimized 258 gear for a lethality operative and how much 10 points of mastery offers. how close are we to reaching parity between crit and power or mastery. are you suggesting alacrity based on which gcd amaount is closer to the optimal build assuming alacrity is not quantized?

 

what bugs me the most is saying you are continuing what bant did in your own way without providing any real theorycrafting and there not being any real good experimental disign for the alacrity hypotheses....

 

but it is better than nothing... so thanks.

 

in regards to more crit hits with less crit rating...

mastery gives 0.2 damage per point and 0.2*(1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^((mastery/level)/5.5)) crit

crit: 0.3*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((crit_rating/level)/0.8))

surge from crit: 0.3 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( (crit/ level) / 0.8 ) )

 

calc it out

Edited December 19, 2018 by dipstik

are you suggesting alacrity based on which gcd amaount is closer to the optimal build assuming alacrity is not quantized?

I'm guessing that's what Maxitrac is trying to say without the statistical and modeling terminology. They're posting the total that would be as close to 1857 alacrity without going below it, based on the Alacrity Rating values from 258 gear and 240 augments. I get the gestalt that most people who post believe alacrity percentages beyond the 15.39% you need for a 1.3 second GCD are wasted. That essentially makes both Accuracy and Alacrity fixed at a certain gear tier and the only variation comes with whether you believe critical rating is always better or if there is a point at which you need to add some more mastery to bring the baseline up. Of course, the implicit assumption is that more GCDs is always more dps. While that is true over a long period of time, like a parse, if uptime windows are extremely short, then that assumption is wrong. The problem is, of course, that its pretty hard to carry around gear sets with just the right amount of alacrity for every single boss encounter.

 

There might be exceptions to that 1857 goal though, for example, I run 2036 alacrity on my sage healer because I can get to a 1.1 second GCD under mental alacrity/polarity shift with that much. There could be various ability cast times, channel times, or cooldown times that would benefit from a level of alacrity rating higher than 1857. I think you and I agree that's what Bant tried to do in his modeling, but its clear he didn't know about the GCD rounding back then. Regardless, there are some abilities (again using sage heals as an example) where there are alacrity ratings you can, in theory, achieve with available stat budgets on gear, but because they reduce the global cooldown AND each ability's cooldown, you don't end up getting an ability back in a shorter number of GCDs.

 

 

In any event, what Bant's work suggests is that a class will benefit from a specific alacrity because of certain cast times/cooldowns/channel times for their abilities. Alternatively, It's also reasonable to post a starting goal, like 1857, for people to strive simply on the basis of the GCD effects, and give them the freedom to test from there.

 

in regards to more crit hits with less crit rating...

mastery gives 0.2 damage per point and 0.2*(1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^((mastery/level)/5.5)) crit

crit: 0.3*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((crit_rating/level)/0.8))

surge from crit: 0.3 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( (crit/ level) / 0.8 ) )

 

calc it out

 

Right, but I need blueCult's mastery and critical rating numbers to do that. I can make some rough guesstimates though...

 

 

Note, a lower predicted critical chance percentage does not always mean the dps will be lower, as evidenced by Smartie's essay on the topic, which I've already stated I find to be a reasonable and compelling essay. But running sample numbers through the formulae does pretty much confirm to me that unless blueCult made a typo, there's no way their final critical chance percentage on the character sheet was 4% more with a crit rating < 1800 and the respective increase in mastery, and if they did not make a typo the 4% higher critical hit occurence has to be an anomaly, regardless of the # of parses.

Well, it seems as if the bound-to-anatomic-gear-slot for item modifications in 252 and 258 gear is an intended change. That’s going to make optimization quite a bit harder.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9681903#edit9681903

Sorry but I do no understand this :

Mercenary Healer

 

6 Alacrity Enhancements 5 Augments, 4 Critical Enhancements, 9 Augments + 2 Crystals

 

6 Alacrity enhancements + 4 critical enhancements needs 10 enhancements slots, but there is only 8 pieces of armors/ weapons where you can put enhancements ...

 

Sorry for the stupid question, I probably missed something, but I am back from a pause of more than 4 years

Edited March 8, 2019 by Lexhorn
typo