I propose that 1.3 Was about PvP Balance at the expense of PvE Balance.

 

What are some of the edge case problems with PvP?

• Self Healing made tank spec / dps geared shadow/assassin extremely hard to kill
  
• Burst DPS from bursty classes kill people quicker than they can react
  
• Some class counterparts have been identified as not properly mirrored
  

 

What are some of the changes that address this?

• Obviously the Shadow/Assassin tank nerfs are targetted at the first item
  
• Active relics have been changed to reduce burst and gain length
  
• Project animation was ruined to making it closer to assassin and Commando was buffed to account for superior BH heat system
  

 

Great on paper right? Unless you look at the PvE downsides:

• Double nerf to shadow/assassins tank spec is most likely overkill and will result in an inferior tank class
  
• Active relics and passive relics are basically the same in PvE except the actives you have to remember to press
  
• New project animation is super lame (they moved the location where the rock originates from you to your target)
  

This is how it goes when they decide PvP is easier to deal with than PvE. Edited June 6, 2012 by Degarmo

It didn't say in the description for 1.3 that assassins/shadows were too hard to kill in PVP; it said they were out-tanking other tanks in general. In fact, it went on to specifically say that their buffs enabled them to match the armor of other tanks exactly, then the self-heals gave them surplus benefit. I know my opinion hardly matters since I'm not a tank (yet), but the logic seems sound as long as they didn't over-nerf.

It didn't say in the description for 1.3 that assassins/shadows were too hard to kill in PVP; it said they were out-tanking other tanks in general. In fact, it went on to specifically say that their buffs enabled them to match the armor of other tanks exactly, then the self-heals gave them surplus benefit. I know my opinion hardly matters since I'm not a tank (yet), but the logic seems sound as long as they didn't over-nerf.

 

Lies all lies. They also said:

Rather than hit armor or self-healing too hard, we’ve opted to adjust both by a much smaller amount.

 

•The healing generated by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced by approximately 50%.

•The healing generated by Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness has been reduced to 8% in total (down from 12% in total).

•The armor provided by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced to +115% (down from 150%).

 

Since when did 50% and 60% (35% + 25%) = "a smaller amount"?

PvP in this game has the very same problem it has in every other game with PvP.

 

PvPers.

I propose that 1.3 Was about PvP Balance at the expense of PvE Balance.

 

What are some of the edge case problems with PvP?

• Self Healing made tank spec / dps geared shadow/assassin extremely hard to kill
  
• Burst DPS from bursty classes kill people quicker than they can react
  
• Some class counterparts have been identified as not properly mirrored
  

 

What are some of the changes that address this?

• Obviously the Shadow/Assassin tank nerfs are targetted at the first item
  
• Active relics have been changed to reduce burst and gain length
  
• Project animation was ruined to making it closer to assassin and Commando was buffed to account for superior BH heat system
  

 

Great on paper right? Unless you look at the PvE downsides:

• Double nerf to shadow/assassins tank spec is most likely overkill and will result in an inferior tank class
  
• Active relics and passive relics are basically the same in PvE except the actives you have to remember to press
  
• New project animation is super lame (they moved the location where the rock originates from you to your target)
  

 

Why do people insist on knocking things until they've played through the changes? Are you a shadow tank? I feel most people complaining about the shadow nerf are not shadow tanks. I spoke to our MT (shadow!) and he is not concerned - was actually stoked for the threat increase. My suggestion is that people reign in the hate until the changes have played out on PTS for more than a couple of hours. Sage healers turned out OK didn't they???

LOL so tank shadow should be more tank than a heavy armor class? dream on take your cries elsewhere.

Why do people insist on knocking things until they've played through the changes? Are you a shadow tank? I feel most people complaining about the shadow nerf are not shadow tanks. I spoke to our MT (shadow!) and he is not concerned - was actually stoked for the threat increase. My suggestion is that people reign in the hate until the changes have played out on PTS for more than a couple of hours. Sage healers turned out OK didn't they???

 

Yes my main since early access day 1 has been a shadow tank. I am a main tank, raid leader, guild leader and legacy level 48. I have applied to test on pts but have not been copied yet.

 

I dont really care about the threat and aoe changes. I didnt have threat problems and i successfully used my control abilities to properly place enemies so i didnt need smart aoe damage.

 

I am not optimistic about the nerfs. Judging by the numbers i think it is too heavy handed. Shadow tanks will most likely have real problems on encounters like foreman crusher where we can not mitigate every enrage with a cooldown.

I like nerfs... it adds challenge, not make things impossible. Adapt or die.

PvP in this game has the very same problem it has in every other game with PvP.

 

PvPers.

 

^ this ^

 

Just get rid of pvp.

Well I have found if something is op in either pvp or pve ir effects the other, so if somethng is a skill that can be used in both pve and pvp if it is over powered it will be over powered in pve, seems to go with out saying.. /shrug

It's because it's so much easier to balance PVE.

 

Can everyone do the same amount of damage over time and have unquie abilites that are useful. There your done PvE is pretty much balannced. It's easy because the players are supose to win and the CPU is supose to lose.

 

 

PvP is harder because 1/2 the players have to lose.

 

If you changed PvE so only the faster 1/2 of the raiders got the best rewards you would see more tears there as well about balance

Edited June 7, 2012 by Lt_Latency

If 1.3 was about PvP balance they'd have done something to buff DPS Commandos to be something more than a free kill.

Why do people insist on knocking things until they've played through the changes? Are you a shadow tank? I feel most people complaining about the shadow nerf are not shadow tanks. I spoke to our MT (shadow!) and he is not concerned - was actually stoked for the threat increase. My suggestion is that people reign in the hate until the changes have played out on PTS for more than a couple of hours. Sage healers turned out OK didn't they???

 

Ok, i have a Jugg, PT and Assassin all at lv50 (infact i have played all but the sniper to max level) though the three mentioned are geared in rekata and up, I can tell you from experience in PVE tankasins are subpar across the board when it comes to mitigation, parsed data also shows this.

 

Shield mitigation questionable, as its a percentile chance (around 40 to 50% if you stacked shield chance, set bonus, and dark ward) for around 40% DR on a NON-TECH/force attack. If shield chance effected all damage then yes they would be balanced, however this is not the case. Almost all major attacks are Tech/force thus your overall mitigation from shield chance is less than 10% wile with armor DR effects all damage.

 

I have also stated that the healing from Harness and dark charge is minor at most only rounding to around 220HPS (this does not make up for the differences in mitigation). The only thing the self heals effect is solo queue pvp, the second you throw a backpack healer into the mix, the heavy armor tanks are going to run circles around the sin/shadow.

 

The only thing Assassin/shadow has going for it is the wither debuff. Nerfing the classes armor is not the way to go about fixing the issue. The two ways to fix the problem would be to 1. nerf or outright remove the healing and buff the armor (not reduce). The second option would be to change how shield mechanics work and allow it to mitigate all damage, however this would require the heavy armor tanks to have the shield chance tweeked aswell.

 

This is only accounting for Tanking, DPS aspects for Assassin/shadow are a complete joke compared to most other classes.

Edited June 13, 2012 by lokivoid

You know how it goes.

 

Cows go "moo", dogs go "woof", mmo players go "the pvp is unbalanced".

 

^_^

If 1.3 was about PvP balance they'd have done something to buff DPS Commandos to be something more than a free kill.

 

they absolutely buffed commando's in 5 attacks we can now do over 20k damage... commando is not a spike damager we are a ramp up damage, so if you are a free kill you arent playing the class correct/ should reroll

this is why you cant pvp and pve in the same game unless you completely divide up pvp and pve into specs that act different in each. Wouldn't it be nice if they had a complete pve set of skills that only worked in pve scenarios? that way they could balance for pve without impeding on pvp which could have the same skill names etc but with different values and would only work when in pvp.

I just know that WOW was ruined for me when they started tinkering with balance between pve and pvp and screwed the entire system up.

this is why you cant pvp and pve in the same game unless you completely divide up pvp and pve into specs that act different in each. Wouldn't it be nice if they had a complete pve set of skills that only worked in pve scenarios? that way they could balance for pve without impeding on pvp which could have the same skill names etc but with different values and would only work when in pvp.

I just know that WOW was ruined for me when they started tinkering with balance between pve and pvp and screwed the entire system up.

 

or take the unlazy route of giving everything duel effects, and stat caps in pvp. This way abilities can be balanced and tweek in pvp without effect pve.

I propose that 1.3 Was about PvP Balance at the expense of PvE Balance.

 

There is no such term as a "PvE balance". Simple as that.

PvP in this game has the very same problem it has in every other game with PvP.

 

PvPers.

 

pvers whine about as much as pvpers

 

"i want my loot,lets argue like children over this colored drop from this boss"

Edited June 14, 2012 by CrunkShizzle