If you had put this in the notes, you would have seen the massive backlash coming.

This effectively makes queueing up specifically for something like lost island and "passing the time" impossible, especially as a DPS. HM flashpoint queues, even on the combined servers, can take 30 minutes to 2 hours to pop at peak times, if you're a DPS. Since you can't group while you're in the group finder queue, you can't do heroic dailies to pass the time. What a huge chunk of people did was pvp in unrated warzones.

Now that servers are full of people again, replacing someone who drops from a warzone is almost instantaneous. It's not a huge deal, especially considering you have two full minutes to accept a group finder invite, which usually means you can at least get to the halfway point or end of that warzone before accepting the groupfinder invite. On the other hand, it's bad enough that we can't group for other things while we wait for a HM FP or SM OP queue to pop, much less taking away the ability to even pvp.

My options if i am queued for a specific HM flashpoint or queued as a DPS being reduced means I will queue less, period, and as you can see in this thread - I'm not the only one.

I can't imagine this was thought through in these terms, especially considering the flack you're already getting for making so many changes to balance PVP at the expense of the PVE experience. I urge you to reconsider immediately.

I don't usually say this....but...

 

THIS IS A WEAK COMPLAINT

If what I am saying is a "WEAK COMPLAINT" then what in your opinion would be considered a valid "complaint"?

So you want to que for PVE and PVP and then when the PVE pops you want to just drop out of a warzone?

That is not cool bro.

I find that to be "weak" especially because the very second somebody drops from a WZ, there is somebody who replaces them...most often than not, faster than anyone even noticed they drop. I myself do not mind when somebody drops. I only mind when they rage quit. But whatever...I guess having that one person who quit when they are instantly replaced makes all the difference, right? Let me say, if that person made all the difference, then that person was carrying your team.

You can always do dailies while you wait, or make some friends and do stuff with them.

This is dead wrong. You can not team while in a queue...you are solo, thick and through, bud.

I have never had an hour long que.

You must not be DPS then. Or, you are speaking of HM FP's which everyone does every day for the BH Comms. Just because it does not happen to you, does not mean it will not start happening to you. I did not used to have to wait for 2 hours either. That has changed.

Maybe you are trying to que up during off hours or maybe your on everyones ignore list.

Do I honestly seem the type person to you who would make very many people's ignore lists? I can assure you, anybody who places me on their ignore list was has probably made it to my ignore list long before they had an opportunity to place me in theirs. I have little tolerance for stupidity.

People that log in at 8am on a wednesday often complain about the que times and the low population.

Hmmm...interesting. I had this issue all morning, all day and all night, yesterday... you can /roll your eyes all you want to, it makes your weak points more so.

I was amazed they allowed us to que both and even more amazed that we stayed in que for a flashpoint during warzones.

Really? That "amazed" you?

I am not surprised they FIXED this issue.

I'll bet you won't be surprised when you finally start to realize that "fixing the issue" has only created more and undesirable issues.

I have to agree with others, I'm tired of the FP Que Finder popping and a person rejecting it because there ahead in a WZ match and dont want to leave, forcing me to wait even longer for a replacement player... The same thing when I'm in a WZ's, it's a tight game and then all of a sudden 2-3 people leave because their FP Que Finder popped...

And the argument that they are replaced instantly in a WZ is not always true, sometimes yes but most of the time we end up with a gimped team

Plus I'm sick of people in PvP gear trying to do HM FP's.... Especially Tanks wearing PvP DPS Gear.....

I have to agree with others, I'm tired of the FP Que Finder popping and a person rejecting it because there ahead in a WZ match and dont want to leave, forcing me to wait even longer for a replacement player... The same thing when I'm in a WZ's, it's a tight game and then all of a sudden 2-3 people leave because their FP Que Finder popped...

 

And the argument that they are replaced instantly is not always true, sometimes yes but most of the time we have to we end up with a gimped team

 

Plus I'm sick of people in PvP gear trying to do HM FP's.... Especially Tanks wearing PvP DPS Gear.....

I can understand your frustration...honestly I do. I am saying to you right now though, the result of this will make your Group Finder Experience less desirable. Mark my words.

You will *still* have people drop from queues. You will still have people quit WZ's. It will not perceptively get any better. What you will notice on the other hand will be this...queue times are now going to start taking up to three times as long.

This "fix" has only caused more problems then it was worth.

I hate this change myself. On The Shadowhand I could get in 6 to 8 wz's before my HM queue popped. (1.5 to 2 hours) If it is a close match I won't leave, but if there is no chance of coming back, I am the only one who loses out by leaving.

 

There will be consequences to this change. The FP users will notice a drop in the amount people queue.

 

I myself refuse to sit around a wait at 50. I might as well get GW2 or go back to WoW for Mists of Pokemon.

You me we wont get matched up with PvP players wearing PvP gear who suck at PvE because they spend all their time PvP'ing?!? Sounds good to me

Something people do not seem to understand about MMO...what affects me, will have either a positive or a negative affect on you, since we are all ripples in the same pond.

It is amazing how few people understand this. An individual player choosing to participate in more or fewer activities in the game has a multiplicative effect. Yet a common response here is to the effect of "if you don't like it, don't play".

I disagree with this change, since I never saw insta-declines of HM FP pops as a big problem, so I don't see the point of it. The only part of LFG I find annoying is accept timeouts, where one person went afk and didn't accept the FP. And this change won't do anything to help that.

I can understand your frustration...honestly I do. I am saying to you right now though, the result of this will make your Group Finder Experience less desirable. Mark my words.

 

You will *still* have people drop from queues. You will still have people quit WZ's. It will not perceptively get any better. What you will notice on the other hand will be this...queue times are now going to start taking up to three times as long.

 

This "fix" has only caused more problems then it was worth.

As you've seen from my previous posts, i'm not all that crazy about grouping up with people who mainly PvP, because they always go into FP's with there PvP gear which bites for PvE'ing... This causes more wipes, longer times to complete the FP and more money for repairs...

I honestly don't mind if the FP ques take longer if it means I'm not pulling my hair out with frustration from people trying to do them without proper gear on.... Of course this is probably moot for under 50's as most pvp in their pve gear.... But for 50's it's a huge issue... I've actually had to quit HM FP's due to the wipes caused by PvP players not having the proper gear.

As for the under 50 FP's, I usually do them while I'm questing on planets so it's not a big issue if it takes 5 mins to pop or 1 hr to pop....

It is amazing how few people understand this. An individual player choosing to participate in more or fewer activities in the game has a multiplicative effect. Yet a common response here is to the effect of "if you don't like it, don't play".

 

I disagree with this change, since I never saw insta-declines of HM FP pops as a big problem, so I don't see the point of it. The only part of LFG I find annoying is accept timeouts, where one person went afk and didn't accept the FP. And this change won't do anything to help that.

Sometimes its not AFK's, it's someone in a WZ seeing if they can finish their match before the Que timer runs out

Honestly this "intentional change" (that was not requested) along with a host of others is getting me pretty close to the end. One of the last things I could do and enjoy with all my 50s was queuing for a HM and doing some WZs to pass the time while waiting for the pop.

People act like it is some huge loss when a a random person leaves a WZ. It's not. It happens all the time for a variety of reasons and we deal. It generally has no major effect on the match outcome and most often someone instantly takes their place and gets a match done a little faster.

What is going to be a huge loss is less people queuing for both HMs and WZs. I wish Bioware would think these things through a little better. Do they think people enjoy sitting on fleet waiting up to an hour for a pop? You can't group and go do dailies or a world boss so you are just stuck.

Please change this back and do it quickly. It wasn't a real problem before but it sure is now. Why on earth would you do something rlthat limits what people can do or accomplish?

One last thing, as much as I complain about PvP players, in the end It wasn't the end of the world the way it was setup before (que in both pvp and pve), I could live with it....

But from someone who mainly pve's I do prefer the change but if it went back to the way it was, I would still play the game...

You me we wont get matched up with PvP players wearing PvP gear who suck at PvE because they spend all their time PvP'ing?!? Sounds good to me

Not sure if this was meant sarcastically...but I hope so.

I pretty much never PvP, since I don't really enjoy it. But almost everybody I know in game agrees that PvPing makes players BETTER in PvE (although you PvPers love your knockbacks a bit too much!) And except for LI, those HM FPs and SM ops available in the LFG can be completed easily by people wearing level 49 blues so PvP gear would be fine.

Besides, most PvP players keep their PvE gear on hand so they can change into it immediately.

Not sure if this was meant sarcastically...but I hope so.

 

I pretty much never PvP, since I don't really enjoy it. But almost everybody I know in game agrees that PvPing makes players BETTER in PvE (although you PvPers love your knockbacks a bit too much!) And except for LI, those HM FPs and SM ops available in the LFG can be completed easily by people wearing level 49 blues so PvP gear would be fine.

 

Besides, most PvP players keep their PvE gear on hand so they can change into it immediately.

I will agree with you on one point, PVP does make Healers better PvE players.... As for the others, Gotta say nope, DPS pvp players have a tendency not to wait for tanks in PvE because there so used to charging in with reckless abandonment... And most PvP players who are tanks seem to forget they have taunt buttons and always want to wear DPS gear....

Now i'm mostly talking about people who PvP 90% of the time and only PvE 10% (usually FP's).... People who split it 50/50 are usually good at both and have appropriate gear for both....

One last thing, as much as I complain about PvP players, in the end It wasn't the end of the world the way it was setup before (que in both pvp and pve), I could live with it....

 

But from someone who mainly pve's I do prefer the change but if it went back to the way it was, I would still play the game...

Anyone who is trying to PvE with Recruit gear should have been asked to change to their PvE gear or asked to leave the team. I myself keep my PvE gear in my inventory at all times. I would never disrespect my team by attempting a HM in PvP gear.

You will still get people who do this, maybe less common but they will still do it. Not all PvPers conduct themselves this way.

Not sure if this was meant sarcastically...but I hope so.

 

I pretty much never PvP, since I don't really enjoy it. But almost everybody I know in game agrees that PvPing makes players BETTER in PvE (although you PvPers love your knockbacks a bit too much!) And except for LI, those HM FPs and SM ops available in the LFG can be completed easily by people wearing level 49 blues so PvP gear would be fine.

 

Besides, most PvP players keep their PvE gear on hand so they can change into it immediately.

THIS^

I will agree with you on one point, PVP does make Healers better PvE players.... As for the others, Gotta say nope, DPS pvp players have a tendency not to wait for tanks in PvE because there so used to charging in with reckless abandonment... And most PvP players who are tanks seem to forget they have taunt buttons and always want to wear DPS gear....

 

Now i'm mostly talking about people who PvP 90% of the time and only PvE 10% (usually FP's).... People who split it 50/50 are usually good at both and have appropriate gear for both....

AND THIS^

You just hit the nail right on the head to further dignify what I said in my previous post. Thank you.

Hey everyone, I wanted to post to clarify that this was an intentional change that unfortunately did not get documented in the patch notes. We've added the patch note (you can read the full patch notes here).

 

Here is the note:

 

 

We apologize for the confusion about this change!

Intentional change. Heh.

When you think there can't be anymore mistakes which are worse then ones already happened, Bioware proves you're wrong.

Is this really their way of handling people leaving WZs due to FP queues? I'm sorry but this is just poor thinking, like many other decisions they make.

Let's just compare an outcome of this "feature":

Positive effects: no more people leaving incompleted WZs when their FP invitation pops... but still there are people who leave incompleted WZs for many other reasons.

Negative effects: less people queueing for WZ's in general (who now have to wait for their FP queues doing nothing); MUCH less people queueing for FP's in general (especially on lower levels - i wouldn't be surprised if pre-50 FP runs will die out completely); less options to level up alts; poor selection of things to do on max level.

Great move, great move... shows that even now, 9 months after release, Bioware are still clueless in managing a MMO. They could at least announce this change on PTS in order to observe people's reaction, but even that wasn't done.

As for me, i'm not playing SWTOR anymore right now because of all new content in other game, but was planning to return when i more or less run out of things to do there. But now i'm not so sure... since there are less things to do in TOR also.

p.s. And i also like how this thread was moved into the PvE specific section of forum, so less people can see it. The topic is about a patch change involving interaction of PvE and PvP queues, not about some sort of a solely PvE thing. In my eyes it belongs to general section.

You me we wont get matched up with PvP players wearing PvP gear who suck at PvE because they spend all their time PvP'ing?!? Sounds good to me

Don't be an idiot. I never said that I run HM's in pvp gear. I have a pvp set and a pve set.

You are missing the point. I am not going to try and explain it to you because I am not sure you will understand.

Hey everyone, I wanted to post to clarify that this was an intentional change that unfortunately did not get documented in the patch notes. We've added the patch note (you can read the full patch notes here).

 

Here is the note:

 

 

We apologize for the confusion about this change!

Thanks for the clarification, Allison. Although I wholeheartedly disagree with the decision to implement this change due to the negative affects this causes for both PvPers and PvEers, I do appreciate you looking in to this for us.

It's not a huge deal, especially considering you have two full minutes to accept a group finder invite, which usually means you can at least get to the halfway point or end of that warzone before accepting the groupfinder invite.

Well, at least PvEers won't have to sit around and wait on you any longer so you can get those extra couple of comms.

Well, at least PvEers won't have to sit around and wait on you any longer so you can get those extra couple of comms.

Nope, instead you have to wait triple the time it would have normally took for the Group Finder to pop, because PvPers aren't wasting their time queuing for them anymore.

I would love to see BIOWARE explain why they think this is a good idea and how making people so upset they don't que anymore for either PVP or FP is going to help the game. I have a 46 OP healer and i sat for 45 mins to get in a FP. As a healer i have never had to wait more than 5 mins maybe 10 mins tops. Please BIO can we get the one Dev that thought of this genius idea to comment? God forbid i have a DPS that whats to run a FP now that isn't level 50. That pretty much has gone out the window on my server. Who really wants to wait 2-4 hours to maybe get into a FP?

Is this what the Dev's think is fun? Between the loading times on certain planets and having to travel 10 mins to do a 5 sec quest and then travel 10 mins back (because you used your quick travel on the last quest) they should call this game TIME WARS. Im fighting the clock more than anything here cause most of us have a real life and just want to spend a hour or two to unwind from that.

Well, scrap a lot of people from the PvE queue now. Not everyone wants to sit around stupidly at the fleet for hours waiting for a pop. We do value our time.

Is this what the Dev's think is fun? Between the loading times on certain planets and having to travel 10 mins to do a 5 sec quest and then travel 10 mins back (because you used your quick travel on the last quest) they should call this game TIME WARS. Im fighting the clock more than anything here cause most of us have a real life and just want to spend a hour or two to unwind from that.

Exactly. Casual players are the main playerbase at the moment (because most of the hardcore ones left for the lack of new content having finished everything long ago). Having them spend even more precious time for nothing is the way to go BW!

If you had put this in the notes, you would have seen the massive backlash coming.

Yeah, it's very, very suspecious that they didn't tell anyone about this change.

I wouldn't go as far as calling someone a liar, but a) no one ever asked for this, b) there was no communication about this and c) there are no advantages at all for this change.

Either this is a bug and instead of admitting to it, you cover it up by saying it was not a bug.

Or this is indeed an intentional change that was made without anyone asking for it, without any communication and without any reason.

I am not sure which of the two is worse.

Mainly, if it IS intentional, I do not understand at all why this is done, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever I can think off to merit this. This has no advantages that I know off, none. Is it to scare people off from PvP? IS it to scare people off from PvE? Don't you want people on queues?

Not a clue why this was done, if intentional.

It surprised me that they would even allow someone to be in two different queues. I imagine they think this probably attributed to people leaving in the middle of a warzone(im just assuming this)

Nonsense, people leave WZs because after 30 seconds you already know who will win: the people that have the best gear.