Back to the "Here's why they shouldn't do it because of something in WoW" argument, I see.

At this point we are circling the same thing over and over. I talk about the differences and you dismiss it saying it is alike. I talk about the similarities, and you discuss the differences. I state a FACT that no one has commented on this, and you postulate that silence could still mean a yes.

If I disagree with something you've said, I'll elucidate on the matter in the hope to clarify my position.

If I feel you are making a weak argument I'll point out the aspects that I feel you could do with clarifying.

That's generally how discussion on an open forum works.

If you state the obvious, such as the lack of Dev comments on this feature, I'll point out that they are not known for commenting on individual threads on long requested features, but rather announce things in their own releases. You know, so everyone can see then not just those following a specific topic.

All I think on this matter is that their last comment on the likelihood of AC swaps is still their current one.

I think we've both said what we have to say. If it ever happens, I will come back in here for a healthy round of "we told you so" and I will eat crow. When it never happens, people can look back and say, "Holy crap. Superman was right."

I can't see either of those happening

I wish you luck... for the last time... on this crusade for a feature neither of us will ever use.

I may use it if it was implemented in a certain way.

I think it's far more interesting that you'd take such offence to the suggestion and discussion of a feature that may never be implemented.

Good bye, all the best

This thread's still going?

I mean, I'm just saying, after 481 pages, you'd think if a dev had something to say about this they'd have said it by now.

This thread's still going?

Yes, because you replied to it.

Yes, because you replied to it.

Oh, you.

Yes, because you replied to it.

Not to pick on you bran, but I think technically YOU replied prior to him...just sayin

And this is a fantastic idea that I hope soon makes its way into the game.

Back to the "Here's why they shouldn't do it because of something in WoW" argument, I see.

 

 

But they can't explain how a respec in Wow is different from an ac swap here. It just "is" because ACs are "full classes" (according to a fired dev) and BW didn't design those "full" classes to be switchable except they did but that doesn't matter because nothing that happened pre-release matters and most of those devs were fired anyways... And players that want respecs are just lazy (except those wanting to switch roles or styles if they happen to exist in a current subtree - they aren't lazy at all). To me there is little coherent /consistent sense in any of that paragraph.

Apart from words with very subjective, game-specific definitions (class vs spec vs base class vs advanced class) no one has even tried to explain how switching from a vigilance guardian to a watchman sentinel is significantly different than switching from an arms warrior to a fury one. Yes, swtor groups trees by an extra set of choices but when you combine those choices - (swtor ac + tree) vs (wow tree), you aren't getting a much different character building dynamic at all and results are no more diverse in either.

I would also point out that Mr Musco just recently made a comment in the "change faction" thread specifically speaking to the possibility (he didn't say never because he hates to do that, but said it was rather unlikely due to difficulties), so they do from time to time comment in these sorts of threads.

I wonder if they are avoiding this one like the plague. Probably a wise choice considering the passionate folks that participate in this discussion.

Not to pick on you bran, but I think technically YOU replied prior to him...just sayin

 

And this is a fantastic idea that I hope soon makes its way into the game.

He's got you there Bran

I would also point out that Mr Musco just recently made a comment in the "change faction" thread specifically speaking to the possibility (he didn't say never because he hates to do that, but said it was rather unlikely due to difficulties), so they do from time to time comment in these sorts of threads.

 

I wonder if they are avoiding this one like the plague. Probably a wise choice considering the passionate folks that participate in this discussion.

They aren't avoiding it...$100 says most people in their office have it bookmarked and their best laugh of the day comes from some ludicrous reply made here. I bet every day this thread gets bumped, someone at Bioware loses a bet.

I did find it intriguing that Eric commented on the other thread so rapidly though...it's like he was waiting for the chance to say something without saying anything ...

I would also point out that Mr Musco just recently made a comment in the "change faction" thread specifically speaking to the possibility (he didn't say never because he hates to do that, but said it was rather unlikely due to difficulties), so they do from time to time comment in these sorts of threads.

 

I wonder if they are avoiding this one like the plague. Probably a wise choice considering the passionate folks that participate in this discussion.

I must admit I was surprised to see gold font turn up in the Faction Swap thread, but Eric's answer, while welcome, only reiterates the language used in the original quote that started this thread.

I would also point out that Mr Musco just recently made a comment in the "change faction" thread specifically speaking to the possibility (he didn't say never because he hates to do that, but said it was rather unlikely due to difficulties), so they do from time to time comment in these sorts of threads.

 

I wonder if they are avoiding this one like the plague. Probably a wise choice considering the passionate folks that participate in this discussion.

/Agree

I must admit I was surprised to see gold font turn up in the Faction Swap thread, but Eric's answer, while welcome, only reiterates the language used in the original quote that started this thread.

And yet he did not bother to reiterate the other half of what was said in the original quote that started this thread... in THIS thread. Coincidental?

And yet he did not bother to reiterate the other half of what was said in the original quote that started this thread... in THIS thread. Coincidental?

I'm not sure why he would feel compelled to. I'm sure he has plenty of other issues to deal with, the PvP players getting their feathers ruffled over the exclusivity of their mounts for example, or maybe the cantina event in two days time, than to feel the need to drop in and comment on the threads you feel are important.

I have no idea of how the Community Team manage the forums but I'm pretty sure Eric isn't sat reading through every thread from start to finish, There will be moderators, largely tasked with keeping things civil and cleaning up the worst transgressions, and maybe flagging threads and/or specific posts for the Community Team to take note of. This process probably isn't just limited to this forum either but external communication sources like Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc... Maybe what landed on Eric's lap didn't make any direct connection between this thread and the one on Faction Change.

I think this highlights a couple of things;

What is important to you, may not even make it onto another persons radar.

There is always room to stretch a quote to favour your argument if you want it bad enough.

I'm not sure why he would feel compelled to. I'm sure he has plenty of other issues to deal with, the PvP players getting their feathers ruffled over the exclusivity of their mounts for example, or maybe the cantina event in two days time, than to feel the need to drop in and comment on the threads you feel are important.

 

I have no idea of how the Community Team manage the forums but I'm pretty sure Eric isn't sat reading through every thread from start to finish, There will be moderators, largely tasked with keeping things civil and cleaning up the worst transgressions, and maybe flagging threads and/or specific posts for the Community Team to take note of. This process probably isn't just limited to this forum either but external communication sources like Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc... Maybe what landed on Eric's lap didn't make any direct connection between this thread and the one on Faction Change.

 

I think this highlights a couple of things;

What is important to you, may not even make it onto another persons radar.

There is always room to stretch a quote to favour your argument if you want it bad enough.

Just bursting with excuses, aren't you? Oh well. He answered a 7 page thread and ignored a 241 page thread. Feel free to insert excuse here.

Just bursting with excuses, aren't you? Oh well. He answered a 7 page thread and ignored a 241 page thread. Feel free to insert excuse here.

An excuse for what?

Just bursting with excuses, aren't you? Oh well. He answered a 7 page thread and ignored a 241 page thread.

Is your theory that he wants to say "No", but is afraid to?

My theory is that he doesn't know if the answer is yes or no, and so decided to say nothing.

Is your theory that he wants to say "No", but is afraid to?

 

My theory is that he doesn't know if the answer is yes or no, and so decided to say nothing.

pretty much this.

they have had bad experiences with giving "maybe, we are not sure yet" answers. so now they tend to wait until they have something more definitive to say. I mean... just look at how they phrase all their updates nowadays, delaying communication, downright saying that they didn't want to say anything until they had better information, etc.

I play one of each.

Sentinel and a Juggernaut

Shadow and Sorcerer

Commando and Powertech

etc.

I don't really see the point. I could understand if there was just one storyline to play.

Is your theory that he wants to say "No", but is afraid to?

 

My theory is that he doesn't know if the answer is yes or no, and so decided to say nothing.

My theory is he wants to say:

No

Not right now

maybe later

eventually

some point in the foreseeable future

realistically a possibility

should be implemented by

etc etc etc...

My point is, the answer is not a solid YES, and there is probably great fear and trepidation about answering anything other than Yes in a 240+ page thread. If there are so many hundreds of ways to say "MAYBE", why not just step in and say:

Hey Everyone,

I wanted to clear up a few things....

(ramble for 3 paragraphs)

So, never say never, but at this time it is not being added in the immediate future.

Then, everyone gets their "Maybe", they can blow it out of proportion claiming it was a YES, and we could all just be happy there is a little Gold B at the start of the title to one of 47 threads in 2 years asking for this feature.

Sometimes all you need to do to calm a situation is throw them a bone

I play one of each.

 

Sentinel and a Juggernaut

Shadow and Sorcerer

Commando and Powertech

etc.

 

I don't really see the point. I could understand if there was just one storyline to play.

I levelled through the eight story classes the same way (and am now working through to one of each AC because I like the stories so much, but from the play style of my friends, 8 characters, 1 of each class, is a more realistic goal)

If you levelled your Sentinel to 55 first and then found that having levelled your Juggernaut to 55 you just didn't enjoy it as much as the Sentinel (many reasons for this, might even be lack of opportunity to get into guild Ops) would you be opposed to a convenience feature that allowed you to relatively painlessly swap over to the Marauders ability set (a little regearing may be required, but that's not uncommon when changing spec.)?

Or, would you feel duty bound to sit down and grind out a third character (a marauder) to 55 from scratch?

Or, play a character you didn't enjoy just to complete content, participate in guild activities?

Or, just put the Juggernaut into hibernation never to be played again?

Allowing an AC swap feature adds to the range of options a player has, it takes nothing away.

If you levelled your Sentinel to 55 first and then found that having levelled your Juggernaut to 55 you just didn't enjoy it as much as the Sentinel (many reasons for this, might even be lack of opportunity to get into guild Ops) would you be opposed to a convenience feature that allowed you to relatively painlessly swap over to the Marauders ability set (a little regearing may be required, but that's not uncommon when changing spec.)?

Or, would you feel duty bound to sit down and grind out a third character (a marauder) to 55 from scratch?

Or, play a character you didn't enjoy just to complete content, participate in guild activities?

Or, just put the Juggernaut into hibernation never to be played again?

Allowing an AC swap feature adds to the range of options a player has, it takes nothing away.

No one is forced to level more than one AC of any class. Byt your argument, everyone would need to level 3 Juggernauts and 3 marauders just so they can have all 6 talent trees covered for their uniqueness. In every thread I've seen thus far, some people have responded with the same truth, blunt, but honest:

"If you want a 55 of another class, level one. Don't be lazy. Leveling is not that hard. You are just wanting a mechanism that allows you to skip to 55 on a class without actually having to play that class from level 1."

Now, I do not agree with calling people lazy, it is only a game after all. However, the mindless mob makes a solid point. If you level a Marauder to 55, and all of a sudden your guild needs a heavy armored tank, not a medium armored DPS, you can now just click a button and switch.

Unlike WoW, where your class is your class and your spec is your spec, here you have a class, and then select a PATH for that class. That path comes with potentially different abilities, gear, skill, and play-style. A marauder may look like a warrior and smell like a warrior, and even walk like one, but the inherent difference is its mitigation.

Had Advanced classes never existed, and your trinity were in your talent tree, this would be a moot point. But, this is not WoW, and for good reason. Juggernaut and Marauder are as much alike as Shaolin Monk and a Catholic Monk. They both wear robes, and pray, and may even look alike, but fundamentally are two entirely different entities.

What should be done is have the AC removed, and spin the trees to include Tank tree, DPS tree, heal Tree, and use ONE type of gear, Heavy, Medium, or Light. As for the Pure DPS classes, they would go Medium leather and get the best 3/6 trees. Again though, that sort of change would take hundreds of man hours and thousands of dollars to implement. AC swap might be less expensive, but likely just as much effort.

However, all that said, until we see some gold font even mentioning the remotest of possibilities, there is no knowing this is even still an option. At least if we knew it was even an option, this conversation might actually be more than a handful of talkers and ancient rumors.

I don't really see the point. I could understand if there was just one storyline to play.

There is just one story line per class for both ACs. We're talking about Commando/Vanguard, not Commando/Powertech like you did

Eric common buddy we need you here to tell us its on the works!

Yes Eric, step in and throw the kids a bone. But make sure to emphasize how it is a "Maybe" and not a "Yes". Without that in the quote, you will likely have a hundred new threads pop up excited about the fact that "He said YES in the big thread" since taking things out of context is what some of us do very well

On a more serious note, I think the people in the thread deserve at least a "possibly in the future, maybe years down the road when the situation presents itself." kinda response. Just something that helps validate their need to cling to a 241 page thread founded on 18 month old information.