Results for the Rakata adrenal:

 

{shadow -> 0.0531745, guardian -> 0.525311, vanguard -> 0.109669}

 

So, the Rakata Absorb Adrenal is 5.3% better for shadows, 52.5% better for guardians and 11.0% better for vanguards.

Out of interest, was that compared to the Reusable Nano-Infused or the Prototype?

Out of interest, was that compared to the Reusable Nano-Infused or the Prototype?

Prototype.

Thanks for doing the math, guys.

However, I have a question for KBN. In your Tank Stat Distribution thread, your calculations are based on the assumption that around 90% are m/r + k/e while 10% are f/t + k.e, unless I've misunderstood your statement: "The magic scalars in question (0.9077 and 0.0923) are the percentage of M/R+K/E vs F/T+K/E damage in Nightmare EC on live."

But in your calculations in this thread, you're assuming that 75% are m/r + k/e and 25% are f/t + k/e.

So, which assumption is closer to the actual 2.0 content?

And if the 75:25 ratio is the more realistic assumption, who would it affect your calculations in your Tank Stat Distribution thread?

However, I have a question for KBN. In your Tank Stat Distribution thread, your calculations are based on the assumption that around 90% are m/r + k/e while 10% are f/t + k.e, unless I've misunderstood your statement: "The magic scalars in question (0.9077 and 0.0923) are the percentage of M/R+K/E vs F/T+K/E damage in Nightmare EC on live."

 

But in your calculations in this thread, you're assuming that 75% are m/r + k/e and 25% are f/t + k/e.

The 75/25 assumption here has very little effect on the value of the respective adrenals. In fact, I would have to look at it again, but I think I could assume *any* mr/ft distribution and the results would be the same.

So, which assumption is closer to the actual 2.0 content?

That remains unclear. I am, however, working even now on the tanking data for HM S&V, which should give us a pretty good idea. I'll move on to HM TfB as soon as I'm able, which will complete the dataset.

And if the 75:25 ratio is the more realistic assumption, who would it affect your calculations in your Tank Stat Distribution thread?

It would have a pretty noticeable effect, but the end mitigation profiles would be within a few percentage points of each other in terms of net mitigation weighted against incoming damage. Obviously, the point of min-maxing is to have the most accurate data possible, but I'm fairly confident that the distributions I gave in my thread will be *sufficiently* accurate as to allow ballpark min-maxing. At worst, the final results will cause tanks to swap one or two mods/enhancements.

The 75/25 assumption here has very little effect on the value of the respective adrenals. In fact, I would have to look at it again, but I think I could assume *any* mr/ft distribution and the results would be the same.

I'm certain this is the case. Since we are ignoring Defence/Resist and only looking at Shield/Absorb vs Armor in isolation. Anything that is affected by armor is shieldable and vice versa. The opposite is also always true.

The more I think about this, the more pissed off I'm getting. Lots of time wasted RE'ing for a reusable stim that's worth about half of what the earlier version was. And a med pack that represents a severe trade-off in usability that basically requires me to "quickbar" both of them for optimum results.

I share your feelings on the adrenal. The stim is still substantially better, and I would argue that the medpack is as well. I've never found the HP increase component of the Rakata medpack to be particularly helpful on any of my characters (not as a tank, and not as a healer). It's kinda fun to pair it with Enure as a Guardian, but that's just cheesing the way the game handles stacking multipliers. I used the Prototype Ultimate medpacks pre-2.0 (not the Exotech) and I'm using the Prototype Impeccable medpacks now.

Out of curiosity, why is the old armor adrenal so much better for Guardians/Juggernauts compared to the other two tanks?

I hope they return these things to armor rating. Really stupid to do the work of introducing a new tier of adrenals and not do the work in ensuring their value.

Out of curiosity, why is the old armor adrenal so much better for Guardians/Juggernauts compared to the other two tanks?

Guardian's have fewer native bonuses to Shield and Absorb and have high native bonuses to Defense making it our preferred stat to stack, which in turn means we put relatively few points into Shield and Absorb which further deflates their value since the value of one is relative to the value of the other. Conversely, as a heavy armor tank, Armor makes up a huge percentage of our mitigation and the Armor adrenals are added to our base armor rating which is then multiplied by our stance modifier (+75% iirc).

Basically, Shield and Absorb are just less useful to us Guardians than they are for the other 2.

I hope they return these things to armor rating. Really stupid to do the work of introducing a new tier of adrenals and not do the work in ensuring their value.

BW often make changes that really screw with the item progression idea. For example, making PVP relics a static bonus while not providing a semi-constant tank relic useful to Guardians. Or the horrendous amount of accuracy that was on all Rakata tank gear (aside from the mainhand iirc) making Columi almost better. Or even back when Ops dropped bracers were worse than Orange ones slotted with appropriate mods.

A few of those things have been fixed over time (Fortunate Redoubt relics <3, Slotted bracers at the Dreadguard tier and more tank pieces with useful enhancements even if there are even more that have useless stats) and I expect we'll probably see the next tier of adrenal actually be better even if they don't retcon this one.

OK I read this entire thread, and it seems to go back and forth between the Rakata Absorb Adrenal and the Reusable Nano-Infused Absorb Adrenal as the BiS for tanking. KBN's posts with math seem to go back and forth too. (Big fan of yours KBN!).

I'm a writer, I struggle with basic math so riddle me this:

For a Biochem Vanguard, using only the Resuable variety of the two adrenals, which adrenal is BiS?

OK I read this entire thread, and it seems to go back and forth between the Rakata Absorb Adrenal and the Reusable Nano-Infused Absorb Adrenal as the BiS for tanking. KBN's posts with math seem to go back and forth too. (Big fan of yours KBN!).

 

I'm a writer, I struggle with basic math so riddle me this:

 

For a Biochem Vanguard, using only the Resuable variety of the two adrenals, which adrenal is BiS?

Rakata reusable. It's an armor rating buff and only slightly worse than exotech.

KBN's math is often very wrong, and this post is a good example of some progression in that department. :-)

Bottom line: Exotech (or Rakata) absorb adrenal is substantially better than the Nano-Infused. Substantially better.

I have some questions about the Hyber-Battle Absorb Adrenal, and I can't find any info about it post 2.5, so I figured I'd revive this excellent thread on the subject.

The results show that the Exotech adrenal is 11.4% better than the Nano-Infused for Shadows, a staggering 61.4% better for Guardians, and 17.5% better for Vanguards. So, your initial intuition was correct, grallmate, the Exotech adrenal *is* better, and by a fairly wide margin.

In 2.5 the Assassin/Shadow armor rating bonuses in tank charge were increased, and also the amount of armor rating available on BIS gear has increased.

As a result is the Hyber-Battle Absorb Adrenal now even better in comparison to the Prototype Nano-Infused than it was before? I'd love to see some new numbers to show the difference.

I have some questions about the Hyber-Battle Absorb Adrenal, and I can't find any info about it post 2.5, so I figured I'd revive this excellent thread on the subject.

The Hyper-Battle is still going to be better than the Nano-Infused, but the Exotech is dramatically better still, so I don't know why you would use the former over the latter.

In 2.5 the Assassin/Shadow armor rating bonuses in tank charge were increased, and also the amount of armor rating available on BIS gear has increased.

 

As a result is the Hyber-Battle Absorb Adrenal now even better in comparison to the Prototype Nano-Infused than it was before? I'd love to see some new numbers to show the difference.

{shadow -> 0.561087, guardian -> 0.587214, vanguard -> 0.261126}

That's with a stat budget of about 2800 and full Dread Forged armorings (a few Dread Master armorings increases armor value a bit, but not dramatically). In other words, the results are still pretty much the same, except for the fact that the gap has widened for shadows and narrowed for guardians. Note that I also took the opportunity to correct some slightly-erroneous scalars in the original form of the computation, which has made the results somewhat more accurate.