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Star Wars: The Old Republic – State of the Game


CourtneyWoods

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I think a regular state of the game is a massive step in the right direction when it comes to community communication, having said that four words nearly made me choke on my coffee:

 

"Our game is awesome"

 

Really? It's awesome? Not just "okay" or "passable when compared to most other mmos out there at the moment"? One of several things at play here, either a high level of self-denial, lashings of arrogance or simply a blind refusal to take your own observations "off the rails" and see the game for what it really is.

 

Your game is okay, that's about it. It could be awesome, it has massive potential to be awesome, but the restrictive gameplay (everything is on rails), the lack of immersion (mini games, other activities to do besides questing) and the below-par response to bugs all keep this game from being anything more than "okay".

 

Do you really think that everyone left because they couldn't pay the 15 dollars? They left because they didn't WANT to pay the 15 dollars, your game in it's current state is not worth their 15 dollars in it's current form. Yes, F2P might bring some of them back, we'll certainly see a bit of growth, but the fact remains that your game sways between being quite an "okay" timesink for people to not being worth other people's money or dare I say it, time.

 

F2P will not fix what is wrong with this game. How about you go over your old archives for the Beta forums? Take a look at the posts, the reported bugs (some of which are still in game today) and start listening to the feedback of the fans who are WILLING this game to succeed, despite the continuing refusal of BW to man up and actually face some of the issues it has.

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I think a regular state of the game is a massive step in the right direction when it comes to community communication, having said that four words nearly made me choke on my coffee:

 

"Our game is awesome"

 

Really? It's awesome? Not just "okay" or "passable when compared to most other mmos out there at the moment"? One of several things at play here, either a high level of self-denial, lashings of arrogance or simply a blind refusal to take your own observations "off the rails" and see the game for what it really is.

 

Your game is okay, that's about it. It could be awesome, it has massive potential to be awesome, but the restrictive gameplay (everything is on rails), the lack of immersion (mini games, other activities to do besides questing) and the below-par response to bugs all keep this game from being anything more than "okay".

 

Do you really think that everyone left because they couldn't pay the 15 dollars? They left because they didn't WANT to pay the 15 dollars, your game in it's current state is not worth their 15 dollars in it's current form. Yes, F2P might bring some of them back, we'll certainly see a bit of growth, but the fact remains that your game sways between being quite an "okay" timesink for people to not being worth other people's money or dare I say it, time.

 

F2P will not fix what is wrong with this game. How about you go over your old archives for the Beta forums? Take a look at the posts, the reported bugs (some of which are still in game today) and start listening to the feedback of the fans who are WILLING this game to succeed, despite the continuing refusal of BW to man up and actually face some of the issues it has.

I agree with a lot of this. i'm assuming you are also a mmo veteran. I think they should be asking the people who know what makes a fun mmo, the people who leveled to 50, the people who want this game to succede for help on improving the game. We have stated what we want and we know that it will take time, but we at least need to see some effort being done. Bioware we know you are trying but try reading more of the "Suggestion Box" and take some of the ideas, there are some very good ones in there! I still have faith, I waited since the game was first announced years ago for its release, and I will stand by you to the end!

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1. Our game is awesome. People love it and want to play it.

 

If EA were happy with that statement and with the numbers many months wouldn't be spent on the F2P conversion.

2. The subscription requirement was driving away huge numbers of people who do not want to commit to paying monthly.

How does this statement address that more than 2 million bought the box and knew when they bought it that a subscription was required? Please elaborate.

3. The frequency of our Game Updates was way too slow. People were leaving because we were not releasing new content fast enough to keep up with the pace at which it was being consumed.

Agreed, yet this is nothing new in an MMO. However, please never forget the "no worries, we have 1600 hours of story" remarks which EA/BioWare Division announced repeatedly before the game released.

 

... and we are dedicated to getting Game Updates out to you every 6 weeks or so. ...

Just curious: When did "every 6 weeks" get changed to "every 6 weeks or so?"

 

Topic #1: Staff: Why are some developers leaving The Old Republic™? How will the game be affected?

 

Reading this got me thinking how many times before I received CS responses in a few hours; however, my latest ticket wasn't acknowledged for 2 weeks; the announced pace of game updates has gone from every 4 weeks to "every 6 weeks or so." With those in mind, I'm a bit puzzled as to how reducing the number of staff has helped this game thrive.

 

Topic #2: Bugs: How does testing work? Why do bugs get through? Why did Game Update 1.4 have so many of them? What are we doing to improve the process?

 

When will there be a character copy to the test server so testing will be more thorough?

 

Topic #3: Oceanic populations. Are we doing anything about them?

 

Thanks for acknowledging there is at least an issue there.

 

... Please keep your comments and questions coming and I will try to answer the biggest, unresolved questions in these “State-of-the-Game” posts ...

 

Biggest. Unresolved. By post count since before game launch and with the same questions since then to now still being unanswered, this question seems to fit both criteria: What changes to the current use of spaceships/space flight are coming, and when?

 

Thanks for the feedback and the chance to reply to it.

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... Please keep your comments and questions coming and I will try to answer the biggest, unresolved questions in these “State-of-the-Game” posts ...

 

Biggest. Unresolved. By post count since before game launch and with the same questions since then to now still being unanswered, this question seems to fit both criteria: What changes to the current use of spaceships/space flight are coming, and when?

 

Thanks for the feedback and the chance to reply to it.

 

are you kidding me, have you read our posts? The biggest issue has bean PVP. The most ignored issue in the game and posts. Its bean almost a week and no word from the Devs. Not evan to aknowledge what we are saying with some excuse about getting back to us.

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I agree with a lot of this. i'm assuming you are also a mmo veteran. I think they should be asking the people who know what makes a fun mmo, the people who leveled to 50, the people who want this game to succede for help on improving the game. We have stated what we want and we know that it will take time, but we at least need to see some effort being done. Bioware we know you are trying but try reading more of the "Suggestion Box" and take some of the ideas, there are some very good ones in there! I still have faith, I waited since the game was first announced years ago for its release, and I will stand by you to the end!

I didn't become good at being an MMO analyst until doing more research on MMOs and how this game has been doing. And oh boy, EAWare has kept this game in maintenance mode for way too long. :(

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SWTOR is a vertical scaling game. As long as Bioware keeps this format I think you will have a hard time making good end game content. I'm wondering if there will ever be a degree of end game sandbox styled content added to the game?

 

Really?! How has that been working for GW2? Horizontal progression is not what players want. Well, not the majority at any rate. It doesnt get anyone to pay a monthly fee, of that you can be sure.

 

With that said, it doesnt mean that end-game cant enjoy from some more streamlining (theres too many badge types and rakata/columi mods work differently from campaign ones. And there also exotech and black hole.). Its too messy.

Also, TFB needs to be on the group finder and we should have more flashpoints/raids. It was good at launch, but one year later we got 2 more raids of 4 bosses and 5 bosses (9 total) and 2 flashpoints. While not horrible, i cant shake the feeling that this is very slow compared to other MMO's. Even WoW Usually has a 6-8 boss + heroics once in a while every 6-ish months.

 

I'm hoping the upcoming 6 weeks patches are not pieces of a bigger patch chopped in little pieces, but actual increase in the pace of content development. I also feel that having a team to work on space missions is a waste of time given its a mini-game. That team should also be creating flashpoints/raids.

 

I didn't become good at being an MMO analyst until doing more research on MMOs and how this game has been doing. And oh boy, EAWare has kept this game in maintenance mode for way too long. :(

 

For me whats baffling is that the issue with lost GCD's is still in the game. That and the fact they are releasing F2P without releasing Makeb. That would bring players back. I aslo dont like that they are selling pieces of the game in the cartel shop, like Section-X. I am afraid that that will kill the game. Its not free if you have to pay for every content patch. So either make people pay for content patches and remove restrictions or keep restrictions and dont make people pay for patches. This greed will no doubt make F2P fail. ITs way too visible that EA is taking over, and that is a very bad thing. EA is trying to kill the game.

Edited by Nemmar
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For me whats baffling is that the issue with lost GCD's is still in the game. That and the fact they are releasing F2P without releasing Makeb. That would bring players back. I aslo dont like that they are selling pieces of the game in the cartel shop, like Section-X. I am afraid that that will kill the game. Its not free if you have to pay for every content patch. So either make people pay for content patches and remove restrictions or keep restrictions and dont make people pay for patches. This greed will no doubt make F2P fail. ITs way too visible that EA is taking over, and that is a very bad thing. EA is trying to kill the game.

EA should sell SWTOR. BioWare would do much better if wrking with a company that wasn't so concerned with getting there money fast. As long as EA has rights to the game, the game wont bring in any money, so from a profit aspect EA would be better off selling SWTOR. Just a thought.

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... Please keep your comments and questions coming and I will try to answer the biggest, unresolved questions in these “State-of-the-Game” posts ...

 

Biggest. Unresolved. By post count since before game launch and with the same questions since then to now still being unanswered, this question seems to fit both criteria: What changes to the current use of spaceships/space flight are coming, and when?

 

Thanks for the feedback and the chance to reply to it.

 

are you kidding me, have you read our posts? The biggest issue has bean PVP. The most ignored issue in the game and posts. Its bean almost a week and no word from the Devs. Not evan to aknowledge what we are saying with some excuse about getting back to us.

 

Read every one. Almost a week? Yep, that's bad, but not as bad as better space flight's months/years.

 

No need to jostle for position between PvP and Space though. He did say "biggest unresolved questions" with a "s" on the end. There's room and demand for both to be answered.

Edited by Stryklone
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Didn't mean to come off hostile. We used to hear back from the devs and now they stay pretty quiet. Everyone has questions but no answers makes it hard. Really feels like any other MMO where the PVP aspect of the game gets ignored thinking its not a big part and the game falls apart. I know not everyone is into PVP. But the majority of players quit cuz of pvp and its broken system and we hear nothing back on fixing or looking into. The majority of info put out is for the PVE and RP side of the game. Warzones are slow coming and still no word of world pvp. But they don't mean didly with a broken system. We get no feedback on their end like they could care less. I understand they can't talk about everything in the works but we can't get a "were looking into it" or "something is in the works" type answer. No answer in fact.

 

Hard to believe we had over 20 servers at launch with sometimes an hr wait to get in game cuz servers were full. They are in total deniel thinking people quit cuz of subscriptions. 1.2 brought change, took away world pvp and broke it further. Then the pvp comunity got fed up and packed its bags. I know their are other aspects why people left but I lost an entire guild of PVP players that were big on the server. How much further can u get with a game without comunication with its players about the good and the bad of the game? Or letting them know you here their concerns.

 

The state of the game is that the Dev's are in deniel and don't listen. I hate trolling, cuz I enjoy star wars and parts of this game, but your going to continue to see a downward spiral of this game. people will come for f2p but you will soon loose more subscriptions do to ignoring and lying to urself about the true state of the game and what drove everyone away. A good chunk would come back if aspects were broght back and fixed.

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Didn't mean to come off hostile. We used to hear back from the devs and now they stay pretty quiet. Everyone has questions but no answers makes it hard. Really feels like any other MMO where the PVP aspect of the game gets ignored thinking its not a big part and the game falls apart. I know not everyone is into PVP. But the majority of players quit cuz of pvp and its broken system and we hear nothing back on fixing or looking into. The majority of info put out is for the PVE and RP side of the game. Warzones are slow coming and still no word of world pvp. But they don't mean didly with a broken system. We get no feedback on their end like they could care less. I understand they can't talk about everything in the works but we can't get a "were looking into it" or "something is in the works" type answer. No answer in fact.

 

Hard to believe we had over 20 servers at launch with sometimes an hr wait to get in game cuz servers were full. They are in total deniel thinking people quit cuz of subscriptions. 1.2 brought change, took away world pvp and broke it further. Then the pvp comunity got fed up and packed its bags. I know their are other aspects why people left but I lost an entire guild of PVP players that were big on the server. How much further can u get with a game without comunication with its players about the good and the bad of the game? Or letting them know you here their concerns.

 

The state of the game is that the Dev's are in deniel and don't listen. I hate trolling, cuz I enjoy star wars and parts of this game, but your going to continue to see a downward spiral of this game. people will come for f2p but you will soon loose more subscriptions do to ignoring and lying to urself about the true state of the game and what drove everyone away. A good chunk would come back if aspects were broght back and fixed.

 

Not to say i dont agree with you, but the devs that listened got fired. I'm pretty sure the ones still there really need their jobs so they keep quiet. Redirect your anger at the ones that pressed their weight on, because they want quick and alot of money and not a sucessful product: EA. I am definitly not gonna buy EA products easily after this. To do so, is to incentivate the current behaviour of running down studios and franchises. Look at C&C, look at Kingdoms of amalur reckoning. If you dont make millions and millions EA is gonna run you down. Its happening to Bioware now.

Edited by Nemmar
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Not to say i dont agree with you, but the devs that listened got fired. I'm pretty sure the ones still there really need their jobs so they keep quiet. Redirect your anger at the ones that pressed their weight on, because they want quick and alot of money and not a sucessful product: EA. I am definitly not gonna buy EA product easily after this. To do so, is to incentivate the current behavious of running down studios and franchises. Look at C&C, look at Kingdoms of amalur reckoning. If you dont make millions and millions EA is gonna run you down. Its happening to Bioware now.

 

I agree. In the begining we would hear back. And I will never buy an EA game again as well. They got greedy and forgot about those who want to play.

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It's a joke

 

The game lost like 60-70% of subs (at least) since launch because ur DEV team just abandoned the game at it's own luck.

 

There are bugs around since LAUNCH i just went back to play and there are the SAME bugs.

 

Just tell that the game is broken and it's going free.

 

If you feedback and mentality won't change, nothing will save this game.

 

Look at the real bugs, look at the class balance and stuff, be real with the game.

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yup a bad joke,,some fanbois even believe, that theres still 700k subs

 

when they finally close this down, please do us all a favor,,dont play the new star wars mmo

 

some of you have helped killng TWO star wars mmos, that should show, that you dont really

 

BELONG in a successful mmo..just as little , as i belong in a battlefield game

 

you didnt want to share the game with casual, paying customers,,so now you have to share with F2Pers

 

im sure you guys will make a nice team,,enjoy your game , while it lasts

 

GW2 is actually running now,,its playable and, ive already met more nice people there,,no insults, within

 

the first hour,,thats a HUGE improvement from this game

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Two cents from newb who started TOR month ago.

 

1. Our game is awesome. People love it and want to play it.

No. And no. SW:TOR is good with the storyline, sucks with everything else. And poeple don't want to play TOR. They want to play Star Wars. Thats not the same. It's just that there is not much choice when it comes to SW.

 

2. The subscription requirement was driving away huge numbers of people who do not want to commit to paying monthly.

 

No. It was not subscription. It is never subscription, just look at WoW (sorry, had to say it). It's always the game. TOR evidently lacks when it comes to anything that is not tied to storyline. And that hurts your playerbase. Fix it, and people will sub.

 

Not to mention that the F2P model you want to implement is really bad, and is more like extended demo, then anything else. AND - because storyline is the only good part of TOR, and storyline is for free, you will not see lot of incom from cartel coins. You may get more short term subs from people who try the game, sub for storyline and unsub after they complete it (I am such player - I sub for storyline).

 

3. The frequency of our Game Updates was way too slow. People were leaving because we were not releasing new content fast enough to keep up with the pace at which it was being consumed.

 

True. But you created this problem yourself with extensive voice overs rising the costs and times of updates. F2P won't fix it. AND you will never be able to create new content at pace at which it is consumed. Even such monster as WoW is not able. What you could do is to create interesting repetitive endgame content and good, balanced PvP - both low level (better queues, not mix of 1-49 levels) and high level for endgame. But, if those forums are right - you will never do this. You have not in past months and it won't change, I fear.

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Ah the meme continues. No Mr. Hickman, it wasn't "the price" of the subscription, it was "the quality of the service" for the price of the subscription that drove people away. In fact, your patch 1.4 "quality of life fixes" forced me back to World of Warcraft. Fix your game and tell us the truth. :cool:

 

EDIT: You know keeping legitimate complaints from your management only keeps them in the dark. SWTOR is not in the state they think it is. If you continue to delete posts that describe problems (like the graphics issues which make it near impossible for me to play your game since patch 1.4) they will continue to write fluff and spin pieces. You are fooling no one. :mad:

 

You don't seem to understand how EA functions. They, the corporation, manipulate and evade, pursuing only the quickest and most short-sighted path to extracting money from you. Community, accountability, communication and creativity isn't in it's DNA. Maintaining the illusion of them caring about you as a gamer, as opposed to a dollar sign, is what they are trained to do. This is a major American corporation, and an aggressively hungry one at that. Be real, and quit wasting your time. Stop buying EA, as I'm doing. They've destroyed enough series for my taste.

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You know if you really want some good input.Go to the fleets and planets.Sit back with a cup of coffee and listen to what folks say.There is too many people that think they speak for everyone.Wrong frelling answer.That is your best bet.Take a break..smoke if you got them and I think you will get a good idea what folks feel needs done or fixed.
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You know if you really want some good input.Go to the fleets and planets.Sit back with a cup of coffee and listen to what folks say.There is too many people that think they speak for everyone.Wrong frelling answer.That is your best bet.Take a break..smoke if you got them and I think you will get a good idea what folks feel needs done or fixed.

 

That's funny, republic fleet is filled with former subscribers hating what f2p has become, the skill bars costing money being a noteworthy mention. The fact is, the majority of responses here is the sad truth and EA are playing dumb to these problems and once again it's going to cost them when they are further forced to downsize the dev team when f2p fails.

 

The sad thing is, the idea of the state of game is to help communication between developers and players and not only to keep us informed but for us to feel like they care. Sadly, it has the exact opposite effect and there is so many things wrong with what is said that it's blatantly obvious that bEAware (sorry but it best describes the developers) are completely out of touch with the loyal fans of this game or they simply just don't care. I could argue with every single of those three points mentioned however it would read almost identical to what the guy some posts above mine who has been playing for a few months has said.

 

I'll finish off by saying that I won't be reading state of the game anymore. It saddens me with what is put and further reminds me of what this game could have been if the decision makers weren't incompetent half whits and it wasn't so painfully obvious that the same incompetent people are still there while the talented ones have moved on. Keep trying though bEAware, hopefully when f2p fails, some higher ups heads deservedly roll.

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If it hasn't been said already...

 

One of the problems with subscriber retention is a mentor system that is lacking greatly. It makes it hard to bring ppl along in the game. Once there is a couple of lvls between players it becomes hard to game together. There are a lot of players that are left in the dark about the the in's and out's of the game that aren't covered in tutorials. Yes, RTFM does apply but mentorship makes it much easier and grows the community.

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If I may be so bold as to counter your assessment, the reason that swtor lost so many players has nothing to do with whether or not the game requires a subscription. Going free-to-play will undoubtedly bring in a great many new players, but that will not change the underlying problems that drive away existing players: regardless if they are free or pay.

 

The fact is that everyone has their own opinions on the most important reasons why people leave, but there are also a great many commonalities. When I first stopped my subscription after 6 months, the survey I was presented with about why I unsubscribed only compounded the reasons why I did: the survey itself was so closed-minded that it didn't allow me to convey in any sense the reason I had left.

 

I believe the very first step you need to do is create a web site interface where all subscribed players can vote for or ad-hoc add the things that most need to be fixed, most need to be changed, and most need to be added; being able to have 5 active votes in each category at a time. All free players should be allowed to vote for three of each category, but not allowed to add their own new ones. Each item would have an attached forum thread where players and staff can discuss details. Have this interface heavily monitored with each votable item searchable by keyword to avoid any duplicate entries. EA may want another category specific to EA content that allows players (free and subbed) to vote, but not add anything. The key is to keep such a system clean, easy to find and vote, and actively looked at by EA staff.

 

This is the only way I can think for the community to directly and cleanly be involved in EA's improvement of SWTOR without it becoming a chaotic mess. It will also allow EA staff to get immediate feedback on things without having to sift through mass amounts of forum entries.

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If it hasn't been said already...

 

One of the problems with subscriber retention is a mentor system that is lacking greatly. It makes it hard to bring ppl along in the game. Once there is a couple of lvls between players it becomes hard to game together. There are a lot of players that are left in the dark about the the in's and out's of the game that aren't covered in tutorials. Yes, RTFM does apply but mentorship makes it much easier and grows the community.

 

This is quoted for truth. Many, many people I grouped with all the time through Coruscant and Taris...and they played more than me and within a week, I couldn't run with them anymore.

 

Happened with the first guild I joined, too, in reverse--was a small (16 people after 3 weeks) very casual guild, and by mid-January, everyone was too spread out to run FPs.

 

Ironic, too, since this game has classes specifically based on rank and mentoring systems.

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Well ftp is out the the server population on the oceanic realms are still so low its not funny, especially the pvp realm, we need the oceanic realms merger to go ahead asap.

before more existing people leave and the ftp leave also as no one to play game with.

also you still have way to many problem with game that need fixing. ps hears a option start a list of the problems with game, and try something different from your past approaches and actually fix them.

And tell us what you are planing on fixing next, and fix at least one or two problems a week

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well ftp is out the the server population on the oceanic realms are still so low its not funny, especially the pvp realm, we need the oceanic realms merger to go ahead asap.

Before more existing people leave and the ftp leave also as no one to play game with.

Also you still have way to many problem with game that need fixing. Ps hears a option start a list of the problems with game, and try something different from your past approaches and actually fix them.

And tell us what you are planing on fixing next, and fix at least one or two problems a week

 

sir yes sir

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